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wnflyguy
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WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 2:54 pm

Rumblings are going around that WN may actually be in talks with another carrier to lease one gate and Slots to operate 6 flights from JFK.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
SWADawg
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 3:07 pm

Cue WN/B6 Merger speculation in 3....2.....1.....
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
wnflyguy
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 3:48 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 1):

More like retaliation against B6 invasion of WN markets.

Rumblings are that WN has the availability of 25 planned retirements that it can easily push out to 2019 if opportunities become available.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
fadecfault
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 3:58 pm

Sounds interesting, I hope they start jfk-mco flights to take on b6. I find it strange they don't offer any nyc - mco flights. Many people do not have cars in nyc and so they take a cab to the airports. Taking a cab to isp is not a viable option for most.
The views and opinions written here are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
 
roseflyer
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:10 pm

JFK would be interesting. There is plenty of money to be made flying to Florida from New York in the winter.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Abeam79
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:14 pm

NYC-Florida is basically locked down between DL/b6/and ual at ewr. But especially b6 to Florida from all the nyc airports, wn knows they would have paltry performance. I doubt they can do much in those routes. Between DL and b6 all the important markets are covered in abundance out of JFK.
 
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 5):
important markets are covered in abundance out of JFK.

... with typically pretty high average fares in many markets.

Despite having 10 million more people in the metro area than London and despite 44 million domestic tourists a year, NYC has a far lower penetration of LCCs than London. Considering the top-3 airports in LON and NYC, 18.2% of seats in NYC are provided by LCCs against 52% in LON. And given B6 is a hybrid and anything but a bare-bones LCC, with an average one-way fare to match, in reality that % is far lower (24.3% of seats at JFK are by LCCs). Of course, if you expand to add ISP, HPN, and SWF the penetration of LCC seats increases to around 40%, although these three airports tend to serve their own small catchments versus wider greater NYC, against 62% for LON (LHR, LGW, STN, LTN). NYC is crying out for a true LCC with meaningfully lower average fares, but shame about the lack of slots at JFK, EWR, LGA and the big inefficiencies, in terms of taxi-out times, and delays and CPE.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
GLG20
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 2):

There have to be way more opportunities out there that don't involve opening a new station and acquiring slots. I also don't think WN's distribution methodology would be great for getting the NYC to Florida traffic. The point of sale is so heavily towards the NYC side and being on the Kayaks and Expedias really helps with relevance to the price sensitive customer.
 
SXDFC
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Rumblings are going around that WN may actually be in talks with another carrier to lease one gate and Slots to operate 6 flights from JFK.

Thats a great idea! They can fly into JFK with the rumblings of the 767s were getting too!  
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:50 pm

If true, maybe this could finally be the way to connect New York with the West Coast. Im shocked there's currently no EWR-LAX/SFO/OAK.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
roseflyer
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 5):

NYC-Florida is basically locked down between DL/b6/and ual at ewr. But especially b6 to Florida from all the nyc airports, wn knows they would have paltry performance. I doubt they can do much in those routes. Between DL and b6 all the important markets are covered in abundance out of JFK.


In the winter, there is plenty of demand. 500-600$ round trips is normal, but there is lots of midweek excess capacity. There is tons of competition, but New York to Florida is the highest demand market in the country in the winter outside the intra California travel.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
ScottB
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 5:41 pm

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 3):
I find it strange they don't offer any nyc - mco flights.

It's not all that strange because WN has a fairly limited number of slots at both LGA & EWR. For WN, those slots are more effectively used by offering service from cities where WN has strong market share (and many loyal frequent flyers) like DAL, HOU, BNA, MCI, IND, CMH, MKE, DEN, etc.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Rumblings are going around that WN may actually be in talks with another carrier to lease one gate and Slots to operate 6 flights from JFK.

I don't see it happening. I can't think of a carrier which would really be interested in giving up slots at JFK to WN.
 
afcjets
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 5):
NYC-Florida is basically locked down between DL/b6/and ual at ewr. But especially b6 to Florida from all the nyc airports, wn knows they would have paltry performance. I doubt they can do much in those routes. Between DL and b6 all the important markets are covered in abundance out of JFK.

Do you really believe WN would fail in the NYC to Florida market?

Quoting GLG20 (Reply 7):
There have to be way more opportunities out there that don't involve opening a new station and acquiring slots. I also don't think WN's distribution methodology would be great for getting the NYC to Florida traffic. The point of sale is so heavily towards the NYC side and being on the Kayaks and Expedias really helps with relevance to the price sensitive customer.

Southwest attracts price sensitive travelers, so much so that their fares are often higher because their lower fares sell out quickly. Southwest not being on expedia or kayak has never been an issue for them and NY flyers would likely discover southwest.com once they started service. New Yorkers are known for being resilient and what suggests they would be less savvy at booking travel than the rest of the nation? If anything, I would think they would be more savvy because for one, many don't have cars and rely more heavily on air travel than people in other areas.

[Edited 2015-05-23 11:18:15]
 
flyby519
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 6:14 pm

I wonder if VX would lease their DAL gates to B6. I smell a WN/B6 battle heating up  
 
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STT757
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 6:33 pm

For JFK I could see either outer perimeter flights, PHX, LAS, AUS, SAT, SAN etc.. or Florida/Caribbean flying, MCO, TPA, FLL, SJU, AUA etc..

I would bet the terminal would be Terminal 7, perhaps getting the gate and slots UA was using for IAD-JFK.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
raddek
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
Thats a great idea! They can fly into JFK with the rumblings of the 767s were getting too!

Hey now, that was a bit below the belt there towards me! lol    
 
raddek
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 7:00 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 15):
perhaps getting the gate and slots UA was using for IAD-JFK.

Well UA did lease out it's gates in DAL to WN, so that is not out of the realm of possibility there. I was thinking
maybe they would be able to acquire the SY slots, but I am not sure they own a gate in JFK or 6 slots there either.

I bet you WN has been wanting into JFK for years, they just never have publically admitted it  
 
United1
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 16):
Quoting raddek (Reply 15):
perhaps getting the gate and slots UA was using for IAD-JFK.

Well UA did lease out it's gates in DAL to WN, so that is not out of the realm of possibility there. I was thinking
maybe they would be able to acquire the SY slots, but I am not sure they own a gate in JFK or 6 slots there either.

Anything is possible but UA only flew IAD-JFK 4 times a day....wonder if this is DLs way of getting access at DAL by trading a gate and slots at JFK to WN in exchange for the same at DAL.
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LAX772LR
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 7:05 pm

Always said that B6's existence is proof that WN could screw up with the best of 'em.

JFK was falling all over itself trying to lure WN in the mid-'90s, and got rebuffed every time.

Had they (elected for the slight exemptions to their then-biz model that would've been necessary and) gone in-- it probably would be a 300+ flight station for them, and they'd have one less powerful competitor.

Should've, would've, could've... but didn't.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Abeam79
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):

  

Quoting afcjets (Reply 12):
Do you really believe WN would fail in the NYC to Florida market?

Maybe not fail, but they won't match the performance. B6 NYC customers are pretty die hard. They love the boutique style service with Ifelegroom/free Wi-Fi. Southwest just doesn't have the product ny'ers are for. It'd like comparing Walmart to target. Target is better value better style and accepted to regular higher end demographics, and wn is coined around here akin to Walmart, very big, everywhere and meh products. Walmart tried to open in the 5 boroughs and the people vehemently fight against it and won. NYers are product savvy and B6 knows it which is why they continue to be popular, and enhance it even more. Look at mint! I

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 13):
Southwest not being on expedia or kayak has never been an issue for them and NY flyers would likely discover southwest.com once they started service. New Yorkers are known for being resilient and what suggests they would be less savvy at booking travel than the rest of the nation? I

Sounds like confirmation bias a bit, and/or not familiar with NYC travelers. As for Transcon in NYC.. No way. They need to introduce a premium product which they don't want to. That's why B6 made mint, they said all economy wasn't producing the yield it needed to compete. It was mint or pull out. This is not the turf wn understands and I think they know that. They are fit for their type transcon such as bwi-oak etc
 
afcjets
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 7:39 pm

[

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 19):
NYers are product savvy and B6 knows it which is why they continue to be popular, and enhance it even more. Look at mint! I


I don't think transcon with MInt is a fair comparison in JFK to Florida where B6 only offers coach.
 
raddek
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 19):
B6 NYC customers are pretty die hard. They love the boutique style service with
Ifelegroom/free Wi-Fi

Well the legroom at B6 is going away that everyone raves about. They are also going to charge for both checked bags
as well. The legacy type of costs are finally starting to catch up with B6.

I agree they are a pretty die hard bunch of folks. They are very B6 loyal in BOS as well.
 
Abeam79
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 8:23 pm

Quoting raddek (Reply 21):
Well the legroom at B6 is going away that everyone raves about. They are also going to charge for both checked bags
as well. The legacy type of costs are finally starting to catch up with B6.

Not true and a misnomer by mostly bad press. The pitch is slightly reduced, not the legroom, Legroom will be the same and by far will still have most legroom than any other carrier. And they are not going to flat our charge for bags. It will be a tiered pricing plan. The ticket prices you normally buy will be with a free bag. because of the additional seats they are putting in cause of the new interior design can fit them, they can now offer cheaper seats, and those seats will come with a bag fee if you check one in.
http://blog.jetblue.com/index.php/2014/11/19/a-note-from-robin-hayes/
My neighbors sister in Florida used to travel on WN, and believe me I agreed with her when she said the "free bag" on wn is a bit of a sham, cause all their ticket prices are now higher than Delta/UA/AA. She said its a hidden price and now she flies anyone else. They don't offer lower tickets like before.
As far as "cost creep" and 'Being like a legacy" or bag fees, I think WN is more in line with that to worry about.
Southwest’s “unit costs have now increased for 10 straight years, and we don’t expect that trend to change anytime soon,” analyst Hunter Keay wrote this month"
Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles...ines-no-longer-the-low-cost-leader
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/CEO...uld-Charge-Bag-Fees-229271021.html

[Edited 2015-05-23 13:33:19]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 8:42 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 20):
I don't think transcon with MInt is a fair comparison in JFK

A previous poster stated his surprise that WN doesn't offer transcons from NYC. That's what that was in response to.


Quoting raddek (Reply 21):
They are also going to charge for both checked bags as well. The legacy type of costs are finally starting to catch up with B6.

  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jfk777
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 11:22 pm

Difficult to believe Delta, AA or JetBlue would lease Southwest a gate at JFK. SW could lease one or use a common use gate at T4. The only big international airport SW flies to is LAX, what are they looking for at JFK ? They don't fly to Miami, DFW, and ORD; they use other airports in those metro areas. For what SW does LGA and Newark are better options.
 
afcjets
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sat May 23, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
jfk777

IMO they will take whatever NYC access they can get.
 
flyiguy
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):

Difficult to believe Delta, AA or JetBlue would lease Southwest a gate at JFK. SW could lease one or use a common use gate at T4. The only big international airport SW flies to is LAX, what are they looking for at JFK ? They don't fly to Miami, DFW, and ORD; they use other airports in those metro areas. For what SW does LGA and Newark are better options.


Really? ATL, EWR, IAD, SEA, SFO, DEN, FLL & MCO are not considered big intl airports?

FLY
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INFINITI329
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
Difficult to believe Delta, AA or JetBlue would lease Southwest a gate at JFK. SW could lease one or use a common use gate at T4. The only big international airport SW flies to is LAX, what are they looking for at JFK ? They don't fly to Miami, DFW, and ORD; they use other airports in those metro areas. For what SW does LGA and Newark are better options.

WN can develop alot of O&D traffic from JFK, even though it will be cut throat competition. A war is looming between B6 and WN on all fronts. Wait till WN out intl flights out of FLL... just wait

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
Difficult to believe Delta, AA or JetBlue would lease Southwest a gate at JFK

if WN approaches DL about a gate, DL is gonna tell WN to shove their request where the sun dont shine
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 26):

I think his point is WN has opted to fly out of secondary airports in MAJOR cities like MDW, instead of ORD, HOU, Instead of IAH... You get the point.

The airports you listed SW didn't have a second airport to play with. With the exception of the DC area.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 1:48 am

WN doesn't have to approach any airline about anything.

JFK isn't LGA and it isn't EWR in terms of congestion

1. Slots are available

2. Gates are available

Gates are readily available in T1 4 7 and 8. And T4 is the place that homeless airlines go.

Airlines start service to JFK all the time. As for 6 "slots" I would bet as, Stt757 said, it is the 4 UA-IAD slots + some extra slots lying around waiting to be used.

As for gates...there's a wide array. And if you think AA wouldn't lease a competitor a gate for 6 turns in exchange for ground handling or gate fees...you're nuts.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
The only big international airport SW flies to is LAX

Huh?? See below:


Quoting flyiguy (Reply 26):
Really? ATL, EWR, IAD, SEA, SFO, DEN, FLL & MCO are not considered big intl airports?

      



Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
They don't fly to Miami, DFW, and ORD; they use other airports in those metro areas

Only because those airports can provide as-good (if not better) access to the parts of those metros where WN's pax want to be, as the large gateway airfields.

Not so in QLA, where LAX offers the best combination of access + facilities, for just about everyone.

Some airports (BUR) have great locations, but limited facilities.
Others (ONT) have tons of potential facilities, but crap locations.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Abeam79
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 2:48 am

[quote=infiniti329,reply=27]
Yeah and what? B6 dominates the carribbean and South America is already well in motion. WN can play ball too, but what your expecting is way overstated.
B6 has 1/3 of their staff speaking latin and from the region. They love the Free high speed wifi and by next
year B6's contract with via-sat will cover the Caribbean and south Atlantic with Ka-band.
WN has missed the boat on Intl for years. I been saying that for a while. Soo..good luck is all I can say.
As for JFK, "can develop alot of O&D traffic from JFK" with 6 or whatever limited few slots they may get? They may serve a few token cities
but given B6/AA/DL all have a large presence and all are agitated WN market heralded slump in stocks a few days ago cause of the overcapacity
they are dumping on the national market, every airline has WN on their S.list. even though it will be cut throat competition.

[Edited 2015-05-23 19:49:18]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Gates are readily available in T1 4 7 and 8.

Pretty sure someone can't just waltz into T8 without going through AA, or T7 without BA/UA.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
1. Slots are available

Perhaps not at optimum times though

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 28):
With the exception of the DC area.

That's not true:
SFO does, which they're already at.
MCO does as well.

And I'm willing to bet that if they reallllly wanted it and were willing to thoroughly invest in both the infrastructure and politics necessary to see it through: they could come up with some solution that'd see them using one of the other airports in the SeaTac area as well. But apparently, they don't.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
flyiguy
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 28):

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 26):

I think his point is WN has opted to fly out of secondary airports in MAJOR cities like MDW, instead of ORD, HOU, Instead of IAH... You get the point.

The airports you listed SW didn't have a second airport to play with. With the exception of the DC area.


EWR you have LGA and JFK
SFO you have OAK and SJC
MCO you have SFB
FLL you have MIA

So there are other options

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 4:35 am

For me, I just don't see this happening. WN's business model from the beginning has been flying to Secondary Airports. i.e. MDW over ORD, HOU over IAH, DAL over DFW. Granted there area few exceptions, (i.e. MHT/PVD and BOS, PHX over Mesa, and the recent invasion of LAX). I'd love to see this change, but I just don't see this happening. IMO, well see WN in Canada before JFK
 
INFINITI329
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 4:52 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 34):

For me, I just don't see this happening. WN's business model from the beginning has been flying to Secondary Airports. i.e. MDW over ORD, HOU over IAH, DAL over DFW. Granted there area few exceptions, (i.e. MHT/PVD and BOS, PHX over Mesa, and the recent invasion of LAX). I'd love to see this change, but I just don't see this happening. IMO, well see WN in Canada before JFK

WN secondary airport business model has been abandoned for years now... take a gander at their route map.. majority major airports
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 32):

Yes, thank you both for emphasising my point even more!

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 33):

Look where WN is bigger in that area though, OAK.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
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RWA380
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 6:09 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 2):
More like retaliation against B6 invasion of WN markets.

It's like cats that all live in the same neighborhood marking their territory.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 9):

If true, maybe this could finally be the way to connect New York with the West Coast. Im shocked there's currently no EWR-LAX/SFO/OAK.

Yes, I think 6 slots for any meaningful Florida service would be a drop in a very big bucket. I'm guessing HOU, DAL may be options for them, but I also considered LAX, SFO or OAK.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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RWA380
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 6:19 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
The only big international airport SW flies to is LAX,

Well that's just not accurate at all.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 32):
And I'm willing to bet that if they reallllly wanted it and were willing to thoroughly invest in both the infrastructure and politics necessary to see it through: they could come up with some solution that'd see them using one of the other airports in the SeaTac area as well. But apparently, they don't.

It was either WN or G4 that had petitioned to have access to an alternate SEA airport & was told not only no, but hell no.
SEA-TAC is a very big area, there is certainly room to expand the facilities.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 36):
Yes, thank you both for emphasising my point even more!

...if by "emphasising" (sic) you mean "directly contradicting," then sure.  


Quoting RWA380 (Reply 38):
It was either WN or G4 that had petitioned to have access to an alternate SEA airport & was told not only no, but hell no.

...that's not even remotely close to the way it happened, at all.

It was G4 (with AS/QX later claiming it also wanted to do so, as a response) considering service at PAE; and in December 2012, the FAA agreed to allow commercial services at that airport.

Neither however started, but it certainly wasn't because any authority was telling them "not only no, but hell no."

Boeing Field also issued a statement when the decision came down:
"The decisions at Paine Field have no direct impact on KBFI. As an open-access airport that receives Federal funds, the FAA requires us to evaluate any proposals to do business at the airport without discrimination."
AS also issued a statement:
http://www.airlinereporter.com/2012/...ng-paine-field-commercial-service/
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jfk777
Posts: 7418
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 11:57 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 26):
Really? ATL, EWR, IAD, SEA, SFO, DEN, FLL & MCO are not considered big intl airports?

EWR is obviously close to JFK. FLL is 30 miles from Miami but not as MAJOR international airport like MIA, a few flights on Spirit to the Caribean do not make a MAJOR International airport, and how many 777 or A380 fly daily to FLL ? Zero. MCO is still way down the international airport list in Florida after MIA ATL is Delta and DFW is AA plus very little else international flights, yah they get an Emirates A380. Denver is United in the rockies. SEA and SFO are getting large diverse portfolios of international airlines but lots of their flights are by UA and DL, they have hub airlines. But None is JFK.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2545
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
Yes, I think 6 slots for any meaningful Florida service would be a drop in a very big bucket. I'm guessing HOU, DAL may be options for them, but I also considered LAX, SFO or OAK

WN will not stop at 6, as long as they have the gate space. WN would be able attract a lot more inbound international cargo business. Even now alot of cargo from Europe is trucked to LGA to be put on WN
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 27):
if WN approaches DL about a gate, DL is gonna tell WN to shove their request where the sun dont shine

Or it could be DL's ammo for the space at DAL. You want a gate at JFK? Fine we want one at DAL.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
seat1a
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 22):

Good to know. Can you tell me the difference between pitch and legroom? I thought pitch was the distance between one point on the seat in front and the seat behind? I'd love to know more about this.

Thank you!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13435
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 42):
Or it could be DL's ammo for the space at DAL. You want a gate at JFK? Fine we want one at DAL.

Doubt DL would be so nice. Since NYC metro is three times the size of DAL metro, they should ask for three, for JFK's one.  


Quoting seat1a (Reply 43):
Can you tell me the difference between pitch and legroom? I thought pitch was the distance between one point on the seat in front and the seat behind? I'd love to know more about this.

You're correct about pitch. But just because you have 32" between a point on one seat and the same point on another, doesn't mean all of that space translates to legroom.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
flyiguy
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:21 pm

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40):
EWR is obviously close to JFK. FLL is 30 miles from Miami but not as MAJOR international airport like MIA, a few flights on Spirit to the Caribean do not make a MAJOR International airport, and how many 777 or A380 fly daily to FLL ? Zero. MCO is still way down the international airport list in Florida after MIA ATL is Delta and DFW is AA plus very little else international flights, yah they get an Emirates A380. Denver is United in the rockies. SEA and SFO are getting large diverse portfolios of international airlines but lots of their flights are by UA and DL, they have hub airlines. But None is JFK.

But you failed to mention my home airport of IAD which has DCA and BWI with in 40 miles of each other as the crow flys...and we get daily A380's, 77W's, 772's, A340's, A330's, 747-8's, 787's 767's etc etc etc on a vast amount of carriers.

But we aren't a major airport ???

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 725
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

RE: WN And JFK?

Sun May 24, 2015 9:04 pm

WN is the largest airline in terms of domestic passengers boarded. If the rumor is true (that they are leasing a gate and slots), 6 daily flights obviously wouldn't be added just to compete with the much larger airlines at JFK (i.e. B6 & DL). This would be more about providing their millions of frequent fliers access to another desired NYC airport. Their business model has shifted in two ways: 1- serving major hub airports of other legacy carriers (EWR, ATL, IAD, SFO, etc.) and 2- opening stations with fewer flights and frequencies (CHS, GSP, ECP, etc.). A large part of this shift in strategy could be attributed to the fact that they have attracted more business travelers than leisure travelers in recent years, and also to expand their network to destinations where their travelers actually want to fly to outside of their traditional strongholds. They still are very much a network point-to-point carrier rather than a hub and spoke carrier like other airlines.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: WN And JFK?

Mon May 25, 2015 7:02 pm

This should be interesting, if indeed true. Most of WN's strongholds are within the LGA perimeter, and it is quite clear that most within-perimeter flying from JFK is unsuccessful unless it's leisure-oriented. Would the 6 flights be simply to expand connectivity to NYC over MDW/DAL/HOU? I just don't see the business case to compete with well-entrenched B6 and DL to Florida, Transcon, or the Islands.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 725
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

RE: WN And JFK?

Wed May 27, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 47):
and it is quite clear that most within-perimeter flying from JFK is unsuccessful unless it's leisure-oriented. Would the 6 flights be simply to expand connectivity to NYC over MDW/DAL/HOU?

With just 6 daily slots (if this rumor comes to fruition), I think WN would serve JFK as just a spoke to offer their frequent fliers more NYC options. I could see something like 3 daily DEN to capture connections from the Pacific, Mountain, and Central time zones. And 3 daily BWI to capture connections from the South.
 
rtalk25
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:14 am

RE: WN And JFK?

Wed May 27, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 48):
I could see something like 3 daily DEN to capture connections from the Pacific, Mountain, and Central time zones.

I'm not sure DEN-JFK would be ideal for travel originating or ending in the Central Time Zone, but it's ideal for Pacific and Mountain. I could see WN having interest in PHX-JFK similarly.

If it offered 3x to BWI, it'd be less exciting and I could see ISP-BWI losing frequencies. I wouldn't be surprised of that outcome, but probably longer routes to JFK would garner more interest. Maybe WN would offer any of these: AUS, SAT, MSY, PHX, DEN and/or LAS.

[Edited 2015-05-26 19:37:09]

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