WN And JFK?

jfk777 · Wed May 27, 2015 12:56 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 38):
Well that's just not accurate at all.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 38):
The only big international airport SW flies to is LAX

There are only 3 airports in the USA whose main business is international traffic: JFK, MIA and LAX. SW only flies to LAX they don't do Miami or JFK, Fact not opinion. People confuse what is a large "international" airport. Many airports in the country are large and handle a large amount of international flights but domestic flight are their core business, Atlanta, DFW, ORD, DTW, MSP, DEN and CLT.
ATL handles a large amount of Delta international flights but just a few other from European airlines, only Korean Air flies there from Asia and they are a Skyteam airline. NO Singapore Airlines, Cathay, JAL or ANA in Atlanta. An international airport like LAX or JFK has a large portfolio of long haul flights by many airlines not just the hub airline. This definition of "international " airport is just for the USA, Dubai has mostly Emirates where for obvious reason everything is an international flight.

enilria · Wed May 27, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 46):
WN is the largest airline in terms of domestic passengers boarded. If the rumor is true (that they are leasing a gate and slots), 6 daily flights obviously wouldn't be added just to compete with the much larger airlines at JFK (i.e. B6 & DL). This would be more about providing their millions of frequent fliers access to another desired NYC airport. Their business model has shifted in two ways: 1- serving major hub airports of other legacy carriers (EWR, ATL, IAD, SFO, etc.) and 2- opening stations with fewer flights and frequencies (CHS, GSP, ECP, etc.).

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Rumblings are going around that WN may actually be in talks with another carrier to lease one gate and Slots to operate 6 flights from JFK.

I have my doubts about this whole deal. I suspect it is just R&D by WN and probably won't happen. Also, who is the carrier leasing slots? It would have to be AA I'd think as B6 would not aid WN in this.

So, I know two things about WN right now. They are 100% focused on DAL and international (anything outside the L48 they basically consider int'l). They aren't really thinking about anything else at this point. Even DEN, I think, is basically built out. That's not to say they won't add things here and there, but they aren't going to add JFK to feed domestic IMHO.

If they do this it is to add international, and I'd think given the WN expansion plan and the availability of slots (afternoons are not available), it would have to be morning out, late evening back from the Caribbean. Why would they do this? I guess if they did it the goal would be to expand their brand in NYC without wasting LGA slots on Florida. They don't have the slots to be effective from LGA to Florida and JFK is the secondary airport to Florida, so I don't think they'd pursue that. JFK is the primary airport to Caribbean. I think that would be the plan, if it is the plan. SJU would seemingly be high on the list.

airplaneboy · Wed May 27, 2015 11:08 pm

Enilria, interesting observation and reasoning. That sounds more logical.

jfk777 · Wed May 27, 2015 11:40 pm

Southwest could be pulling another AirTran, buying JetBlue. SW flies to all corners of the USA now and has large focus cities all over the place. Buying JB would be a tasty meal and expand into the NYC-Florida market in a big way.

afcjets · Wed May 27, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 53):
Southwest could be pulling another AirTran, buying JetBlue. SW flies to all corners of the USA now and has large focus cities all over the place. Buying JB would be a tasty meal and expand into the NYC-Florida market in a big way.

I am not sure WN wants to buy an entire fleet of airplanes they have no use for.

flyby519 · Wed May 27, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 53):

Southwest could be pulling another AirTran, buying JetBlue. SW flies to all corners of the USA now and has large focus cities all over the place. Buying JB would be a tasty meal and expand into the NYC-Florida market in a big way.

WN only a buys things when they can get a real good deal. If JetBlue was close to bankruptcy then WN might be interested, but there is no way they would come close to offering a premium over the current B6 market value.

enilria · Thu May 28, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 52):

Enilria, interesting observation and reasoning. That sounds more logical.

Thanks...I don't doubt they have evaluated it. I just don't think it is a likely outcome, but who knows.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 53):
Southwest could be pulling another AirTran, buying JetBlue.

I give that a VERY low probability, but again anything is possible. If that happens they will decimate B6 like they did with FL. I don't think the employees of B6 would be much better off either.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 54):
I am not sure WN wants to buy an entire fleet of airplanes they have no use for.

You mean "ANOTHER entire fleet"?

Fleet has little to do with mergers. I don't see B6 selling and I don't see WN paying the current price for B6.

What about UA selling their JFK operation to B6 and code sharing with B6 on JFK-LAX/SFO? The fly in the ointment is that it appears UA *mints* money on those flights. Sorry about the pun.

afcjets · Thu May 28, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
You mean "ANOTHER entire fleet"? Fleet has little to do with mergers. I don't see B6 selling and I don't see WN paying the current price for B6.

I don't see it either for the reasons you mention too and I agree fleet has little to do with mergers but not in this case. I am not sure WN would buy an airline with a fleet which contains zero 737s.

LAX772LR · Thu May 28, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 50):
There are only 3 airports in the USA whose main business is international traffic: JFK, MIA and LAX.

None of those airports' "main business" is international traffic.

jfk777 · Thu May 28, 2015 11:26 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 58):
There are only 3 airports in the USA whose main business is international traffic: JFK, MIA and LAX.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 58):
None of those airports' "main business" is international traffic.

In Florida ( fact) ore domestic traffic goes to MIA not FLL so international is MIA's main business. Have you ever been to JFK before lunch ? Its a Ghost town until the first flights from Europe arrive around noon which is why JB was able to get lots of un-used slots at JFK when it was launched. All those airlines at the TBIT are not important to LAX ? That is quite a profound and factually wrong statement. LAX is the major Asia-Pacific airport in the country especially for Australia and New Zealand.

jfk777 · Thu May 28, 2015 11:36 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 54):
I am not sure WN wants to buy an entire fleet of airplanes they have no use for.

While SW has flown every 737 made since 1973 they will have to fly something else some day, so why not an A320 ? There was a time Delta, AA and United never would have flown Airbus but now they do. The efficiency of having one type of plane vs. two is moot when an airlines flies enough of each type. 100 A310 & 100 737 is not more efficient then 200 737's.

afcjets · Thu May 28, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 60):
While SW has flown every 737 made since 1973 they will have to fly something else some day

Why would they when Boeing continues to expand the 737 program (including its range and capacity) and has for almost 50 years and IMO in part because one of their most successful, stable, largest, and long term customers has made it clear one a/c type is key to their business model. In many ways the growth of the 737 mirrors that of Southwest and I do not think it is 100% coincidental.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 60):
so why not an A320 ?

Because there is a 737 the exact same size. If they were to choose another aircraft outside of a 737, it would likely be one a 737 cannot match.

jfklganyc · Thu May 28, 2015 2:18 pm

I just landed at JFK

930 and 25 airplanes in line for take off

I think you're thinking of Jfk from 15 years ago and it's quite different now

Besides Jetblue Delta has a full-fledged hub with a huge bank of morning departures

So now were down to a quiet time between banks of flights which is from 1030 to around 1230.

That really is no different than any other hub

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