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wxman11
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ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 6:38 am

Hey folks,

With All Nippon Airways (ANA) soon to begin their new service from Narita to Houston next month, any thoughts to where in the US will ANA fly next? What competition with they face? Will they have a good chance making that route profitable?

brgds
 
ANA787
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 7:02 am

PDX or LAS is my guess.

PDX-DL already serves PDX-NRT. But with 130+ japanese companies in Oregon this could be profitable, especially with UA/NH JV.

LAS-no competition. Leisure. JAL last served this market.

[Edited 2015-05-25 00:05:21]
 
atal17
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 9:16 am

MIA!         
 
ha763
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 10:58 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 1):
LAS-no competition. Leisure. JAL last served this market.

I doubt ANA will consider LAS anytime soon. Just like you said, it is mainly a leisure market. ANA's main target customer is the business traveler and it shows with their network. Of the 9 U.S. destinations with ANA service, only 1 is mainly a leisure destination, and that is HNL.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 11:32 am

RDU 4x weekly? Please... No? Well dang!!!!
Aiming High and going far..
 
Carpethead
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 11:50 am

PDX possibly but also EWR.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 12:42 pm

Going against JL on NRT-BOS would not be a shock to me.

Depending on timing - NH would add extra connections (especially China) that JL cannot offer. Decent sized MileagePlus membership in BOS too and depending on timing - UA could allow the flight to depart from Terminal B.
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migair54
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 12:43 pm

What about BOS?? Lately BOS is getting a lot of attention. Hainton and CX are adding BOS this month and Tokyo could work for ANA as a much better transit point for most of China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Philipines.

Quoting atal17 (Reply 2):
MIA

I hope we will see finally a flight to Asia from MIA (QR is in middle East and Asia but I'm talking about East Asia).

Why ANA doesn't fly to DFW?? it is a big market even if they can't get too much feed at DFW end, they could use one of that B787 with 169 seats.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
What about BOS?? Lately BOS is getting a lot of attention

Great minds think alike!!!

Forgot to mention B6 feed in BOS as well. I do wonder if two premium heavy 788's or 789's (wouldn't surprise me if also JL upgauged) would be too much for BOS especially with HU, CX and an imminent entrance by KE within 3 years.
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S75752
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):

I hope we will see finally a flight to Asia from MIA (QR is in middle East and Asia but I'm talking about East Asia).

Why ANA doesn't fly to DFW?? it is a big market even if they can't get too much feed at DFW end, they could use one of that B787 with 169 seats.

Oneworld turf, would be JL not NH. If JL still has the 8 abreast 788's then it could be them to MIA. Didn't NH convert all their 788's to 9 abreast anyways?

Canada-wise, YUL is not served to Asia by anyone, so I could see that being given a 788.

I think AUS is quite likely for either NH or JL.

Dunno if NH could make SLC work if DL couldn't.

If only some other airport in the LAX area would support Intl Widebodies :/
 
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Coronado990
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 2:23 pm

Could SMF ever be a candidate for nonstops to NRT? ANA seems like a good fit.
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lhpdx
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 2:24 pm

I would love to see ANA at PDX!!!
 
mark2fly1034
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 2:32 pm

I what about MCO or TPA with a 787
 
S75752
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting mark2fly1034 (Reply 12):
I what about MCO or TPA with a 787


Probably way too far to fly Leisure traffic.
 
RKSofACinUSA
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 9):
Canada-wise, YUL is not served to Asia by anyone, so I could see that being given a 788.

Once AC has enough 787's in the fleet, they will probably start YUL > NRT. NH will probably codeshare on that flight.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 3:59 pm

How about SEA-HND? Probably not, if DL is having difficulty making it work. I think PDX is the best bet along the west
coast. Otherwise, why not other Japanese cities to the US?
 
kengo
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting ha763 (Reply 3):
Of the 9 U.S. destinations with ANA service, only 1 is mainly a leisure destination, and that is HNL.

Not to be technical but HNL route is served by ANA's subsidiary Air Japan.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):
and an imminent entrance by KE within 3 years.

Have they made statements to that effect, or is that just being surmised?

I'm sorta surprised that they weren't one of the first movers for nonstop service from east Asia to BOS. I understand the fleet limitations, but still.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
rnav2dlrey
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 5:46 pm

as a primarily BOS-based UA flyer, i'd love to see both NH and OZ start BOS. combined with LH and TK (and of course UA), *A would become the leading international alliance at BOS overnight.

even better if UA could get a sweetheart deal from massport and AA for their gates that would allow UA to consolidate with the other *A carriers.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 17):
Have they made statements to that effect, or is that just being surmised?
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 17):

Surmised and should have mentioned OZ as well.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

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wxman11
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Mon May 25, 2015 8:48 pm

It would be nice to see ANA expand their network into more US cities. However, what would the load factor or the O&D be for the mentioned routes?
 
hjulicher
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 10:31 am

I'm sort of surprised we don't see JAL or ANA into DTW. I know that DL has 2 routes into Japan, NRT and NGO from DTW, but due to the number of Japaneses Auto Suppliers and other Japanese firms with their footprint in DTW, I'm surprised there isn't an ANA flight into DTW catering for the O/D Japanese customer. Plus, ANA could provide a lot of connecting opportunities inside Asia, which DL cannot match via their services to NRT or NGO.

Lufthansa is able to make the flight work on the European side (flying into enemy territory). And if you compare the total O&D to Europe vs Asia from DTW, it can't be that the market is completely saturated with the services DL currently offers.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 9):
Dunno if NH could make SLC work if DL couldn't.

The main reason the SLC-NRT didn't work was that DL didn't have the right equipment. A 787-8 might be an ideal airplane for the mission. Then again, NH wouldn' t have the connections from SLC like DL did.

Not sure if SMF could support an NRT non-stop. I really like what NH is doing in SJC though. They are making that work well, apparenlty.
 
S75752
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 22):

The main reason the SLC-NRT didn't work was that DL didn't have the right equipment. A 787-8 might be an ideal airplane for the mission. Then again, NH wouldn' t have the connections from SLC like DL did.

Couldn't a 767-300 or a 330-200 make that route just fine though? What did they try using?
 
stburke
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 23):
Couldn't a 767-300 or a 330-200 make that route just fine though? What did they try using?

They used a 332, and from what I understand it was heavily weight restricted with a number of seats being blocked off. I'd love for SLC-NRT to come back to give more Asian connections to the Rocky Mountain region. I think it's viable only with the right aircraft and right now that may be only the 788 albeit Delta based on connections.

As for NH, I'll throw a few wild ones in for the hell of it: CVG and AUS.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 23):
Couldn't a 767-300 or a 330-200 make that route just fine though? What did they try using?

Remember that SLC is at some altitude and is often hot in the summer. That was the issue. I bet a 777-200LR could do it without blocking seats, but that is probably way too much airplane for that thinner route.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting stburke (Reply 24):
As for NH, I'll throw a few wild ones in for the hell of it: CVG and AUS.

AUS has had intercon service for a grand total of 15mo (though it does appear to be doing outstandingly well)... so let's give that one chance.

As for CVG, considering that it's not a hub anymore, and has a comparative pittance of O&D.... I sincerely doubt that's going to happen either, unless Proctor or someone agrees to subsidize the hell out of such a flight.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Tue May 26, 2015 5:47 pm

i think ANA should open new markets instead of directly bumping heads with JL at SAN and BOS

If feed is of no concern, I'd say PDX AUS then PHL (yes it's a oneworld hub but with the right equipment it is workable)
 
Viscount724
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 14):
Quoting S75752 (Reply 9):
Canada-wise, YUL is not served to Asia by anyone, so I could see that being given a 788.

Once AC has enough 787's in the fleet, they will probably start YUL > NRT. NH will probably codeshare on that flight.

Both NH and JL have operated charters to YUL for quite a few years, mainly in October, when the autumn foliage in that part of the country is popular with Japanese visitors.


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chrisnh
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 17):
Have they made statements to that effect, or is that just being surmised?

I'm sorta surprised that they weren't one of the first movers for nonstop service from east Asia to BOS. I understand the fleet limitations, but still.

The irony is, they (KE) indeed WERE the first mover to Boston back in the 2000s with a triangular route from Seoul that connected BOS and IAD with a 744.
 
CALMSP
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 5:54 pm

hard to say, but UA/NH will make the decision together.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 6:09 pm

BNA with a 3x weekly 787? Nissan among others...

[Edited 2015-05-27 11:10:17]
 
747megatop
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting wxman11 (Thread starter):
any thoughts to where in the US will ANA fly next?

What about ATL? Would give good competition to DL's ATL-NRT non-stop.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 32):

What about ATL? Would give good competition to DL's ATL-NRT non-stop.

If I were NH I would try some smaller mid-sized cities with weak or no competition (but not the dying rust belt breed)
 
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Miami
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 8:33 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 33):
If I were NH I would try some smaller mid-sized cities with weak or no competition (but not the dying rust belt breed)

MIA, MCO PHL, and PHX all seem to be a good choice.
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LAX772LR
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 29):
The irony is, they (KE) indeed WERE the first mover to Boston back in the 2000s with a triangular route from Seoul that connected BOS and IAD with a 744.

Meh, pointless. KE never flew there nonstop.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
KELPkid
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 8:50 pm

They should try HNL-SDJ to replace HA, who just dropped the route...   
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BoeingGuy
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 9:12 pm

The obvious question is does NH need to expand further? They have SEA, SJC, SFO, LAX, IAH, IAD, ORD, and JFK (off the top of my head).

PDX, SAN, DEN, DFW, ATL, MSP, DTW and BOS are all served by other carriers? What's left that is viable?

SLC - could probably support a 787 if it were DL and had the connections
PHX - high population base but is a One World Hub, so no real connections
MIA - (see PHX)
PHL - (see PHX)
CLT - (see PHX)


So that leaves markets already served by another carrier, and often with more connecting opportunities with the existing carrier - such as PDX, SAN, DFW, MSP, DTW etc.

Don't get me wrong. I like NH a lot and I really like what they have done with SJC, but unless DL drops PDX or they get really creative with something like AUS, STL, or they decide to go after O/D at existing hubs like MSP, I'm not sure what viable new markets NH has in the near term.

[Edited 2015-05-27 14:19:44]
 
S75752
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Wed May 27, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 34):

MIA, MCO PHL, and PHX all seem to be a good choice.

I think MIA, PHL, and PHX would be JL or AA, especially since both now have their 788's.

I think AA or JL would take care of PHX / PHL, while JL could take MIA since their 788's are probably the only ones that will still have the capable range, since they keep 8 abreast.

MCO could be anyone, even DL. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if DL undertook it, it seems like their kind of route.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 38):

NRT-MCO-GRU, on DL the whole way. That would be fun to watch.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 1:05 am

I think NH is next for the "Creative 787 Routes" club.

I forsee Austin within five years.
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S75752
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 3:26 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 39):

NRT-MCO-GRU, on DL the whole way. That would be fun to watch.

I think that'd actually make a ton of sense. Though not as close to the GCP as JFK, it doesn't add much mileage. Would also increase yields on the MCO-GRU.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 1):
LAS-no competition. Leisure. JAL last served this market.

Is KE to ICN not competition?

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 37):
PHX - high population base but is a One World Hub, so no real connections
MIA - (see PHX)
PHL - (see PHX)
CLT - (see PHX)

All are OW hubs. I see JL/AA serving these. Expect to see NH at Star Hubs (IAH, DEN) , or stand alone cities (SAN, PDX, BOS)
 
wedgetail737
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 4:17 am

I am surprised that NH hasn't changed out their 787-8 to 787-9's on the NRT-SJC route. I think SEA-NRT will drop from
the current 777-300ER to the 787-8/9 after September. Could NH start flying the 777-200ER on the SJC-NRT route?

JL used the 777-200ER on the SAN-NRT route when the 787's were grounded. I could see JL upgrading that back to a
777-200ER. Is there enough traffic or gate space to add their 787's to SAN?

NH entered the SEA market with a 777-300ER while DL and UA were serving the SEA-NRT route. Why couldn't NH
provide competition for DL on the PDX-NRT route?

The only other west coast airports that could handle a NRT/HND flight(s) would be OAK, SMF and ONT. But is there a
market?
 
ANA787
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 4:21 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 43):

Does AS have an interline agreement with NH?
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 5:19 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 43):
Why couldn't NH provide competition for DL on the PDX-NRT route?

Market isn't anywhere near as large as SEA; and NH may not feel it's worth fighting with DL over, if its Asian p.o.sale isn't sufficient to override DL's corporate contracts on the USA side.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 5:33 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 44):
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 43):

Does AS have an interline agreement with NH?

Not anymore. It was dropped about two years ago.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 42):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 37):
PHX - high population base but is a One World Hub, so no real connections
MIA - (see PHX)
PHL - (see PHX)
CLT - (see PHX)

All are OW hubs. I see JL/AA serving these. Expect to see NH at Star Hubs (IAH, DEN) , or stand alone cities (SAN, PDX, BOS)

Isn't that exactly what I was just saying?   "....but is a One World Hub...."
 
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Aaron747
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 37):

The obvious question is does NH need to expand further? They have SEA, SJC, SFO, LAX, IAH, IAD, ORD, and JFK (off the top of my head).

PDX, SAN, DEN, DFW, ATL, MSP, DTW and BOS are all served by other carriers? What's left that is viable?

SLC - could probably support a 787 if it were DL and had the connections
PHX - high population base but is a One World Hub, so no real connections
MIA - (see PHX)
PHL - (see PHX)
CLT - (see PHX)


So that leaves markets already served by another carrier, and often with more connecting opportunities with the existing carrier - such as PDX, SAN, DFW, MSP, DTW etc.

Don't get me wrong. I like NH a lot and I really like what they have done with SJC, but unless DL drops PDX or they get really creative with something like AUS, STL, or they decide to go after O/D at existing hubs like MSP, I'm not sure what viable new markets NH has in the near term.

This.

The only play they could really make at an existing market is to go after NGO-DTW and try to displace DL. Most of the Toyota Group people are snobby and often complain of the 'old' FAs and 'smelly' DL planes.

KIX-JFK would be a wild shot in the dark as there are moneyed connections between the two cities that could fill the front half, but I doubt they'd be able to fill the back half or cargo hold much, if at all.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: ANA Next Route In The US?

Thu May 28, 2015 6:02 am

Why not ANC? Decent Asian population, military traffic and tourist traffic. Though maybe DL on a 757 is a better choice.

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