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airDFW
Topic Author
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AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 12:49 am

In CAPA's new article on US3 and ME3, there were some surprises,
- AA now allows FF miles on EY coded flights
- Might start DFW - AUH to complement EY flights

Is AA rethinking its alliance with UA/DL against ME3?

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...rican-airlines-to-abu-dhabi-223254
 
Sooner787
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 1:00 am

I wonder what QATAR would think of AA starting service top compliment EY?

I figure ABB throws a fit cause AA is competing head to head with them

OR

QR welcomes the additional flights as a way to put more pressure on Emirates.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 1:07 am

It would be brave of AA to start flights to AUH, hey why not ? AA should fly to Doha too. The hubs of the ME3 have become significant destinations in their own right and should be flown to by the US3. These places are twice as far as LHR but about the same distance from the USA as Hong Kong and Sydney so distance is not out of the question. Dubai and Doha are not Tehran, these are friendly places where tourists are welcome.
 
MKIAZ
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 1:11 am

Everyone lumps the US3 together against the ME3, but I don't really see anti ME3 quotes from AA. They don't fly to the mid east, don't fly to Africa, don't fly to India.

The only competition they do indirectly have with the ME3 is their JV with IAG for transporting pax from US via LHR to India/Africa - and IAG doesn't seem to mind the competition.

It seems AA is being smart with this situation in partnering with QR and EY to make money feeding their flights while DL just gets mad and throws a fit.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 1:15 am

I think that the 787 would be the perfect plane for such a route, though I think that if the premium traffic is there, a 77W would also work great.

If the DOT rules in favor of the ME3, retaining Open Skies with the UAE and Qatar, AA will benefit because of two deep ME3 codeshares, partnerships in AAdvantage with both of those carriers, plus flights on their own metal to the Middle East. If EY continues to be A380-constrained by the time ORD is A380-ready, I could see AA adding ORD-AUH, and I could also see AA adding PHL-AUH with an EY codeshare to complement the QR PHL-DOH flight and codeshare. I wouldn't rule out CLT-AUH or CLT-DOH if the A332 has the range - if not, there's always waiting for the 787 to reach CLT.

If the DOT sides with UA and (especially) DL and significantly restricts further ME3 access, AA will still benefit because of the only ME3 codesharing and FF agreements out of any US3 carrier (unless you count EK's codeshares with much smaller B6 and AS). Limiting access to the UAE and Qatar for both US and ME3 carriers would mean that AA, with their EY and QR codeshares, would have a huge advantage in one- and two-stop flight options to markets like Africa and India - one that even the DL/AF/KL and UA/LH JVs can't duplicate.

Either way, AA has the least to lose of the US3 by far. UA's flights to the Middle East are basically there for the feds, and DL has only one flight to the region (rumored to be on the chopping block) and could potentially get locked out if US carrier access is restricted in addition to ME3 access to the US.
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MKIAZ
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
It would be brave of AA to start flights to AUH, hey why not ? AA should fly to Doha too. The hubs of the ME3 have become significant destinations in their own right and should be flown to by the US3. These places are twice as far as LHR but about the same distance from the USA as Hong Kong and Sydney so distance is not out of the question. Dubai and Doha are not Tehran, these are friendly places where tourists are welcome.

I don't see it. These are LONG flights. Look how long DFW-HKG took with a major partner at the other end and no one flying the route. All 3 of the ME3 are competing at DFW, and from what I read online loads aren't great. It would be a bad idea for AA to start AUH when they can sit back and make money feeding them.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 5):
All 3 of the ME3 are competing at DFW, and from what I read online loads aren't great

QR is doing just fine..

Personally I think AA should get closer to QR and take over PHL-DOH with 788 and add seasonal/complementary capacity from either DFW/MIA/JFK as needed
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ripcordd
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 2:18 am

It would be hard for AA to make $$ even so-called hub-hub routes due to AA's cost vs the cost of ME3 carriers
 
usairways85
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 2:25 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 1):

I figure ABB throws a fit cause AA is competing head to head with them

He already has made a statement
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...s-cites-critics-crap-service.html/

"He said if American continues to expand partnership with Qatar’s competitors, Qatar will be forced to expand its codeshare relationship with Jet Blue. However, he said Qatar is committed long term to its relationship with American."
 
tortugamon
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
Limiting access to the UAE and Qatar for both US and ME3 carriers would mean that AA, with their EY and QR codeshares, would have a huge advantage in one- and two-stop flight options to markets like Africa and India - one that even the DL/AF/KL and UA/LH JVs can't duplicate.
Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 3):
It seems AA is being smart with this situation in partnering with QR and EY to make money feeding their flights while DL just gets mad and throws a fit.

These are excellent points and I agree that AA does not seem nearly as vocal as DL and this undoubtedly contributes to the reason. AA is in a solid spot although I personally wish they were more closely aligned with EY than QR as the latter is showing his true colors and their business/labor practices are much more suspect in my opinion. The EY team seems much more professional.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):
"He said if American continues to expand partnership with Qatar’s competitors, Qatar will be forced to expand its codeshare relationship with Jet Blue.

First of all where does QR fly that links well with B6? Since when do they have a partnership with them where the can expand? MIA, DFW, PHL, LAX, ORD are not hubs for B6 and they only have one JFK flight per day (though they do have BOS and an additional JFK frequency planned). I think EK would have something to say to B6 if they launched a partnership with QR.

tortugamon
 
chrisp390
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 3:54 am

Firstly I'm shocked that AA was examining launching the route with a 777-300,

Secondly, how can they make that work when Etihad has such trouble filling it's flights?
 
Sydscott
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 9):
These are excellent points and I agree that AA does not seem nearly as vocal as DL and this undoubtedly contributes to the reason. AA is in a solid spot although I personally wish they were more closely aligned with EY than QR as the latter is showing his true colors and their business/labor practices are much more suspect in my opinion. The EY team seems much more professional.


To me it would also make sense for AA to get into bed and allow codesharing with them as well. Having a mix of AA, B6 and AS cover the US for the ME3 makes powerful sense if the ME3 get restricted by the DOT. And if they are not restricted it still makes sense for AA to partner up with all three and harvest what they can from their feed. Certainly none of the ME3 will touch DL and I doubt UA would be willing to work with them.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 3:59 am

AA also has another friend in the middle east. It's name is Royal Jordanian and it plays a role here.
 
tortugamon
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 4:15 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 11):
And if they are not restricted it still makes sense for AA to partner up with all three and harvest what they can from their feed.

Sure! I bet AA would like to do that with all three but I don't think QR would like it very much and I think their agreement would suffer.

Also, I do see that B6 does have an interline partnership with QR.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 11):
Certainly none of the ME3 will touch DL and I doubt UA would be willing to work with them.

I don't think that is so certain. I think EK is certain not to join an alliance. I think QR has chosen their alliance and I think that EY is open to agreements where they make sense (preferably the equity kind which may be unlikely for the US3) but I think DL/UA could need EY more than EY needs them if their growth is what I expect it to be.

I don't think Anderson's comments will preclude DL from doing business with the ME3 once this legal business is worked out.

tortugamon
 
atal17
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 10):

I believe those numbers may not have been correct. I've had doubts since the last reveal
 
sierra3tango
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 12):
AA also has another friend in the middle east. It's name is Royal Jordanian and it plays a role here.

AA also code shares with GF and has for a long time. Suspect it was rather more useful to AA when GF flew n/s
from LHR to BAH / DOH / AUH and MCT.

Remember flying a BAH/LHR sector on GF in Oct 2001 sitting next to the USN CoC of the 5th Fleet who I knew.
Only J class for him (not F) and GF (not BA which dep at almost the same time).
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 3):

Everyone lumps the US3 together against the ME3, but I don't really see anti ME3 quotes from AA. They don't fly to the mid east, don't fly to Africa, don't fly to India.

Not looking hard enough.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...xpansion-by-middle-east-rivals.ece
 
anstar
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 1):

I wonder what QATAR would think of AA starting service top compliment EY?

I figure ABB throws a fit cause AA is competing head to head with them

QF have also gone ahead with a strategy of partering with am ME carrier (this case Emirates) rather than oneworld partner QR.
 
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thekorean
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 13):

I don't believe EK will be so petty they won't team up with DL if its the right business decision. based on some words.

QR probably won't.
 
tortugamon
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 18):
I don't believe EK will be so petty they won't team up with DL if its the right business decision. based on some words.
QR probably won't.

I don't think EK would be that petty indeed.

However, I don't think EK cares as much for DL's hub locations as AA's (1st) and UA's (2nd).

tortugamon
 
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eisenbach
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Wed May 27, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 3):
The only competition they do indirectly have with the ME3 is their JV with IAG for transporting pax from US via LHR to India/Africa - and IAG doesn't seem to mind the competition.

... with 10% shares QR is the largest shareholder of IAG  

So thats maybe why they keep quiet silent  
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OB1504
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RE: AA Double Crossing Its BFF Against ME1?

Thu May 28, 2015 1:47 am

I don't see AA and EK getting any closer when AA already has extensive cooperation with EY, GF, and QR and outright discontinued their interline agreement with EK last year.

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