Sarah Blackwood, the female vocalist for the band Walk Off the Earth, was kicked off a United flight in San Francisco. The plane was bound for Vancouver, where she was to perform. At least a UA attendant on the ground tried to console her, but these incidents are certainly not good publicity for the airline!

http://globalnews.ca/news/2022284/wa...ff-united-flight-over-crying-baby/

I don't know what happened on the plane, but I do know that her statement that her son was "not quite two years old and therefore unable to have his own seat." is false. Is she so hard up for cash that she can't afford to buy him a seat?

Quoting fanofjets (Thread starter): these incidents are certainly not good publicity for the airline!

It doesn't help that the article you link to plays up the apologetic mother trying her best to comfort her crying child... One has to go down several paragraphs to read that, according to Skywest, the poor angel was not seated correctly and even "was repeatedly in the aisle of the aircraft before departure and during taxi." If the mother and the nanny are unable to restrain the child, getting them off the aircraft was more than appropriate.

Wait until the little angel's younger sibling arrives in the midst of the terrible twos. Then they really behave!

To be clear, it wasn't United that kicked her off the flight. Nor was it a United flight attendant. It was a Skywest flight attendant. Recommend the thread title be changed to reflect that Skywest did it. Just because the media can't get it right doesn't mean we shouldn't.

I am guessing (hoping) there is more to this story... I can't imagine UA kicking them off only because the kid was crying. Seems like they were kicked off because she wouldn't sit down.

“Despite numerous requests, the child was not seated, as required by federal regulation to ensure passenger safety, and was repeatedly in the aisle of the aircraft before departure and during taxi,”

But this I don't believe:

"Blackwood said an airline supervisor told her the flight attendant reported that Blackwood had refused to put a seat belt on her son."

Well, as a lap infant, my understanding is that you are not allowed (by the FAA) to put a seat belt on your lap riding infant. You can't even have the child in a Baby Bjorn type device. The FAA prefers that your child is a projectile during an accident. At least that is what I have been told by numerous FAs. My understanding is that in Europe, you can strap your lap infant to you or to your belt with some type of device.

I flew ORD-LAX last week with my 22 month old son and he was very squirmy and sometimes crying, glad I wasn't kicked off  Fortunately he slept for most of the return flight.

In my experience, once a child gets become active and mobile, keeping them on your lap is near impossible. If you can afford it, you are better off getting them a seat and strapping them in a car seat. Or get one of the FAA approved Kids Fly Safe seat belt systems from CARES. They are amazing and beats dragging a car seat through an airport.

Quoting United787 (Reply 5): can't imagine UA kicking them off

Quoting United787 (Reply 5): I flew ORD-LAX last week with my 22 month old son and he was very squirmy and sometimes crying, glad I wasn't kicked off

Right, because UA didn't kick this kid off either. Skywest did.  

I see we are using an extremely liberal definition of the term Rock Star....

Dave Grohl = Rock Star =/= this person

Quoting fanofjets (Thread starter): Sarah Blackwood, the female vocalist for the band Walk Off the Earth

I think Rock Star is a bit of a stretch--can't say that I've heard of the band...

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 7): I see we are using an extremely liberal definition of the term Rock Star....

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 8): I think Rock Star is a bit of a stretch--can't say that I've heard of the band...

Especially for a band that is a glorified cover band.

it's exactly these types of over-entitled faux celebrities that sickens me - trying to leverage their social media base to blackmail businesses into doing their bidding

Quoting United787 (Reply 5): The FAA prefers that your child is a projectile during an accident. At least that is what I have been told by numerous FAs.

Actually they prefer that you *hold* your child during an accident. I can't imagine any parent wouldn't hold their child in that scenario.

Quoting United787 (Reply 5): Well, as a lap infant, my understanding is that you are not allowed (by the FAA) to put a seat belt on your lap riding infant.

Can you imagine the amount of force a baby would experience in an accident with the adult's body pushing forward against the baby/seatbelt and the seat belt pushing towards the baby/adult? I imagine it would be too much for a baby to handle. Adults often experience broken ribs due to seatbelts in car accidents. What more than an airplane accident and a baby?

In instances like this, I agree with the FAA that babies should not share a seat belt with an adult.

Quoting fanofjets (Thread starter): Sarah Blackwood, the female vocalist for the band Walk Off the Earth

It is my understanding that, in order to capitalize from this incident, the band will now be known as Walk Off This Plane."

  

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 13): It is my understanding that, in order to capitalize from this incident, the band will now be known as Walk Off This Plane."

They should just Walk Off Their Fame

Quoting diesel33 (Reply 12): Can you imagine the amount of force a baby would experience in an accident with the adult's body pushing forward against the baby/seatbelt and the seat belt pushing towards the baby/adult? I imagine it would be too much for a baby to handle. Adults often experience broken ribs due to seatbelts in car accidents. What more than an airplane accident and a baby? In instances like this, I agree with the FAA that babies should not share a seat belt with an adult.

You are exactly correct. If the accident doesn't kill your baby, your weight against the seatbelt with them in the middle will most certainly kill him due to internal crushing injuries.

I follow musicians that are concidered, "Rock Stars". I've never heard of this woman, nor her band.

Now, if someone like, "Eddie Van Halen" got kicked off of a flight, I'd say this title has some real meaning, because quiet frankly, Eddie is a ROCK STAR, and a great one at that.

But, sure hate she lost her flight, whomever she may be.

I just saw an interview. She disputes that her child was in the aisle. She claims she had the window seat and that her child was asleep in her lap before they decided to turn the airplane around. According to her, they also announced that they were going back to the gate to get more fuel and then when they arrived at the gate, asked her to deplane. And she also stated that other passengers defended her and thought deplaning her was too much.

If her story is credible, Skywest has some explaining to do....

Quoting YTZ (Reply 17): If her story is credible, Skywest has some explaining to do....

And if Skywests' account of events is credible, she has some explaining to do. From what I'm reading, there are two very different stories coming from the two sides in this event so it will be interesting to find out the actual facts.

Quoting diesel33 (Reply 12): In instances like this, I agree with the FAA that babies should not share a seat belt with an adult.

When flying from UK to Australia, and internal flights both ends, we used an extra belt that attached to my belt. It had loops to attach to my belt, then my belt was tightened around my waist, then the baby belt was put around my childs waist and tightened. I assumed all cariers everywhere used them, are they not used in the US or is it just certain carriers? I would think holding a baby is very risky, it wouldn't take much for the baby to come out of the parents grasp and injure the child.

Pilots, attendants, gate agents, ramp workers, TSA all have bad days. If this was a major problem in the industry, everybody would be thrown off a flight. But they are generally professionals even on bad days, but let one customer act like a jerk and it is news?

If it is one person or a family that gets thrown off, then THEY are the problem, not the airline.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 11): Actually they prefer that you *hold* your child during an accident. I can't imagine any parent wouldn't hold their child in that scenario.

I am sure all parents would love to be able to hold their children during an accident. I believe in many instances, they are not able to due to G forces and/or other circumstances. I am sure others can answer to why that happens.

Quoting diesel33 (Reply 12): Can you imagine the amount of force a baby would experience in an accident with the adult's body pushing forward against the baby/seatbelt and the seat belt pushing towards the baby/adult? I imagine it would be too much for a baby to handle. Adults often experience broken ribs due to seatbelts in car accidents. What more than an airplane accident and a baby? In instances like this, I agree with the FAA that babies should not share a seat belt with an adult.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 15): You are exactly correct. If the accident doesn't kill your baby, your weight against the seatbelt with them in the middle will most certainly kill him due to internal crushing injuries.

I am not suggesting that a child share a seat belt with an adult for the exact reasons you stated. What I have seen used in Europe and what I am suggesting is exactly what ncfc99 describes below. It is my understanding that this type of device, although permitted and maybe even required in other western countries, is prohibited in the US.

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 19): When flying from UK to Australia, and internal flights both ends, we used an extra belt that attached to my belt. It had loops to attach to my belt, then my belt was tightened around my waist, then the baby belt was put around my childs waist and tightened. I assumed all cariers everywhere used them, are they not used in the US or is it just certain carriers? I would think holding a baby is very risky, it wouldn't take much for the baby to come out of the parents grasp and injure the child.

Not only not in use in the US, not allowed, so I am told. I hope the FAA knows something I don't know rather than them just being an archaic bureaucracy...

Quoting YTZ (Reply 17): If her story is credible,

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18): And if Skywests' account of events is credible,

Are we headed for bodycams for FA's similar to police officers? It certainly would resolve many of these passenger/airline disputes.

I wish the airlines would sell extra seats to passengers at 1/2 fare for child carriers. However, the Transportation of Safety believes in charging for infants, it might discourage some air travel.

When a parent says the child is 23 months old, my pilot meter jumps off the dial. I once witnessed a senior flight attendant offer to hold a screaming lap child while the parent, and all the crap she needed, got settled in. The flight attendant greeted passengers at the door during boarding, while holding the child. After boarding slowed to a trickle, she sat the kid down on the galley counter, and started playing patty cake, blind mans bluff, etc. She then held up one finger, and asked the child if he was "'this many years old''?, and he exclaimed "no, I'm this many" and held up 2 fingers! I was given charge of the child, while she confronted her mother that "she had reason to believe her child was 2 years old, and needed to see a birth certificate to confirm his age. The mother then admitted he has just turned two a few days earlier. The gate agent was called down, and because it was a full flight pulled the mother, child, and all their junk from the flight Of course, mother was screaming lawsuit until the agent told her of the fraud she was committing.

Another time, I was called to the back galley because there was trouble shutting the cabin door. Hat on, coat on, I go to the back of a full 757, I noticed a rather large child sitting on a passenger's lap. While I looked at the door, I asked the flight attendant to go check out 27C (or whatever the seat was), but not say anything. The door was easily repaired by wiping the dust off the door lock mechanism. Yeap, a big old lap child at row 27. I brought the flight attendant with me (witness) and asked the mother how old was her child she was holding, and she replied "10". I asked if he had a medical condition that required him be held None) I told her a 10 year old had to pay for and occupy a seat all to himself. She replied that "she thought anyone under 12 was a child". Again, the gate agent was called down. He said that when she checked in at the ticket counter, she would have to check in for seats at the gate. So, she got by the ticket counter, TSA screening, the gate agent, the boarding agent, and worse of all, the flight attendants. Because she made it through so many layers of security, the airline would carry him at no charge, but move to a vacant seat. He told the mother she would be required to purchase him a ticket back.

Sorry for the long stories, but just proving the extent people will go to get around the rules. Thanks for reading.

Jack

Update at 1540: The tv program TMZ (I was too lazy to get up and change the channel), the mother just admitted in an interview that the child was two. Oops!

[Edited 2015-05-28 15:40:52]

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):

I'd side with the airline on this one. Her story makes it nearly implausible for them to turn back and deplane her. And I don't see how her pregnant or her career is relevant one single bit.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 23):

Boy, you guys must be a blast to fly with on a 3 day trip. Rooting out all those fraudulent moms whose kids are just a few days over 2 years old...

Quoting catiii (Reply 4):

Yea ok see oh far those skywest miles get you on your next untied flight.....United pays skywest to fly the routes for them, they must follow UA's rules

Quoting catiii (Reply 25): Boy, you guys must be a blast to fly with on a 3 day trip. Rooting out all those fraudulent moms whose kids are just a few days over 2 years old...

If I had my way, things would be different. Unfortunately, when it comes down to FAR compliance, I don't want to lose my job. Yes, I have seen it done before.

And, the mother of this child accidentally slipped and said her child was 2 years old.

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 8): I think Rock Star is a bit of a stretch--can't say that I've heard of the band...

I consider myself musically knowledgable, and even follow foreign and obscure artists.....but this is the first time I've ever even HEARD of this band, too!!

And this incident probably gave the band more publicity than they ever had....even though this was not an intentional effort to do so!

[Edited 2015-05-28 17:39:07]

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 28): And this incident probably gave the band more publicity than they ever had....even though this was not an intentional effort to do so!

Who says? She tries to make herself out to be a sympathetic mother while simultaneously getting her band's name out there. *She* shot the video afterwards. She gave those quotes to the media.

One thing about the term "Rock Star" that I'll say, though - Canada has a law that (IIRC) 30% of all music played on the radio has to be Canadian content. So a lot of artists are popular in Canada only because the radio needs somebody to play. People in the US and elsewhere have never heard of a lot of the acts that people in Canada know. She may very well be a "rock star" in Canada but nowhere else.

According to the OP's linked article, not only was the lady attempting to hold a "23"-month old child on her lap, she was also seven months pregnant:

Quote: “He was crying and squirming,” recalled Blackwood, who is seven months pregnant. “I was holding him down on my lap.”

This sounds like trouble in the making, and a really, really cheap parent. She should have bought a seat for the rather old lap-child and installed him in a car-seat there, if he was unable to sit properly.

United and most airlines routinely accept passengers with lap-children, although it is preferred that children under 24 months be in an infant seat next to the parent.

In this case, with the child's age right at the 24-month threshold, the mother very pregnant, and the child "repeatedly in the aisle of the aircraft before departure and during taxi", I believe that SkyWest dba UAX made the right call.

From United.com:

Quote: Acceptance of accompanied children under two years Children under the age of two traveling within the United States, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands with a parent or with an adult 18 years or older can travel on the adult's lap free of charge. If there are two or more children under the age of two traveling with the same adult, only one of the children may travel as a lap child. Any additional children are required to have tickets for their own seats. Children under the age of two traveling internationally (including children traveling to Canada and Mexico) without a seat are required to have a purchased ticket and are subject to infant fares and taxes. When making your reservation, you should indicate you are traveling with an infant, regardless of your destination. Infant seating Children who are not held by an adult and are unable to sit upright with the seat belt fastened must be carried in an FAA-approved infant seat. United does not provide infant seats. The infant seat must be secured in an aircraft seat and cannot be held on an adult's lap. The infant seat must remain properly secured to the aircraft seat at all times. An infant seat cannot be used in an exit row or in the row immediately before or after an exit row.

[Edited 2015-05-28 19:05:56]

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 29): Who says? She tries to make herself out to be a sympathetic mother while simultaneously getting her band's name out there. *She* shot the video afterwards. She gave those quotes to the media.

As I said, the incident was not intentional. But the furor over this incident spun out all over, and did bring some publicity they never would have gotten otherwise.
Out of curiosity, I took a quick look at their Facebook page a few minutes ago......and they have over 1.9 million likes. Wow!

Still haven't heard any of their tunes or seen any of their videos yet. But somehow, I feel I should give these guys a listen.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 29): One thing about the term "Rock Star" that I'll say, though - Canada has a law that (IIRC) 30% of all music played on the radio has to be Canadian content. So a lot of artists are popular in Canada only because the radio needs somebody to play. People in the US and elsewhere have never heard of a lot of the acts that people in Canada know. She may very well be a "rock star" in Canada but nowhere else.

Yes, I forget the percentage that needs to be played.....but I am also aware of the criteria of the "2 out of 4 rule"..... Music/Lyrics/Artist/Production...... you have to have Canadians doing at least two of the four to qualify as being "Canadian Content"

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 23):

The age business is tricky. Some kinds look younger--or older--than they really are.

At seven months pregnant she already has a lap child.

And the 30% world still doesn't explain the Corey hart / Bryan Adams incongruity.

Quoting fanofjets (Thread starter): Sarah Blackwood, the female vocalist for the band Walk Off the Earth

Who?


No, seriously - who?

How long before a video from another pax of her yelling "Do you know who I am??" comes out before she change tune and admits fault?

[Edited 2015-05-28 21:58:58]

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 8): Quoting fanofjets (Thread starter):Sarah Blackwood, the female vocalist for the band Walk Off the Earth I think Rock Star is a bit of a stretch--can't say that I've heard of the band...

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34): Who?No, seriously - who?

I listen to music all the time, and I am also totally stumped.

Her publicist is not successful. How could you be a 'rock star' if nobody knows who you are?




LD4

Quoting braniff722 (Reply 16): I've never heard of this woman, nor her band.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34): Who? No, seriously - who?

I see, because the definition for "star" depends on whether YOU have heard of them. There are plenty of international celebrities, adored by millions, that you will never be aware of. I'm not saying this woman is in that group, but try not to turn a media headline into a narrative that revolves around you and your (admittedly limited) knowledge of the entertainment industry. It's quite probable that most musicians skip the likes of Huntsville, Alabama on their show circuits, which I suppose explains the incomprehension.

To those hung up on the United/Skywest distinction: who cares what the corporate structure is? She bought a ticket from United and sat in a plane with a United flight number, painted in United colours with the word United painted prominently on the fuselage. To try to disavow any connection is disingenuous. Skywest operates the United Express flights on behalf of, wait for it...United Airlines.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 36): How could you be a 'rock star' if nobody knows who you are?

it proves she has an ego. making the one sided story about the poor mom harassed by the airline is her last grasp.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 37): I see, because the definition for "star" depends on whether YOU have heard of them

In the music industry? You bet.

I seldom have to look up musical acts, but I had to look this band up, and they're essentially a glorified cover band with a handful of original stuff.

"Star" she is not. .

Quoting threepoint (Reply 37): I see, because the definition for "star" depends on whether YOU have heard of them. There are plenty of international celebrities, adored by millions, that you will never be aware of. I'm not saying this woman is in that group, but try not to turn a media headline into a narrative that revolves around you and your (admittedly limited) knowledge of the entertainment industry. It's quite probable that most musicians skip the likes of Huntsville, Alabama on their show circuits, which I suppose explains the incomprehension.

Whatever you say, Joan Rivers...   Pathetic post on your part and totally pointless.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):

As they say, 3 sides to every story...he said, she said and the truth.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 29): One thing about the term "Rock Star" that I'll say, though - Canada has a law that (IIRC) 30% of all music played on the radio has to be Canadian content. So a lot of artists are popular in Canada only because the radio needs somebody to play. People in the US and elsewhere have never heard of a lot of the acts that people in Canada know. She may very well be a "rock star" in Canada but nowhere else.

You hit it right on the head!    ... I stopped listening to radio once mp3 players came out, all the enforced mediocrity on the airwaves. Fortunately though, it has produced one unexpected side benefit: Canadian musical talent... err... "talent"    is particularly well-suited for extracting confessions from the inmates at Uncle Sam's Cuban beach resort.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 20): If it is one person or a family that gets thrown off, then THEY are the problem, not the airline.

Exactly. I'm sure when someone is pulled off a flight there is extra paperwork or forms that need to be completed and who wants to do that.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 33): And the 30% world still doesn't explain the Corey hart / Bryan Adams incongruity.

Cory Hart only had one real hit "Sunglasses at Night"...... whereas Bryan Adams had a bunch of them.

Quoting YVRFlyer (Reply 42): You hit it right on the head! ... I stopped listening to radio once mp3 players came out, all the enforced mediocrity on the airwaves.

I would have to agree that music on the airwaves has been mediocre for some time now....since about 1994 or so.

Quoting catiii (Reply 4): To be clear, it wasn't United that kicked her off the flight. Nor was it a United flight attendant. It was a Skywest flight attendant. Recommend the thread title be changed to reflect that Skywest did it. Just because the media can't get it right doesn't mean we shouldn't

what a load of crap! I buy United, my Ticket says United, it´s a United Flight, no matter which poor bugger United decides to sub/source the flight to/from!

Quoting catiii (Reply 4): To be clear, it wasn't United that kicked her off the flight. Nor was it a United flight attendant. It was a Skywest flight attendant. Recommend the thread title be changed to reflect that Skywest did it. Just because the media can't get it right doesn't mean we shouldn't.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 26): Yea ok see oh far those skywest miles get you on your next untied flight.....United pays skywest to fly the routes for them, they must follow UA's rules

While SkyWest doesn't technically have to follow UA's rules, in the end UA is responsible for whatever SkyWest does under the UA brand. For all intents and purposes it was a UA flight especially where the non-A.net public is concerned.

Quoting catiii (Reply 25): Boy, you guys must be a blast to fly with on a 3 day trip. Rooting out all those fraudulent moms whose kids are just a few days over 2 years old...

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile, guaranteed. Where to draw the line, if not at the word of policy? Two years and a week? Two years and 364 days? How about the mom not try to skirt the rules?

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 11): Actually they prefer that you *hold* your child during an accident. I can't imagine any parent wouldn't hold their child in that scenario.

Sudden deceleration has other plans.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 15): You are exactly correct. If the accident doesn't kill your baby, your weight against the seatbelt with them in the middle will most certainly kill him due to internal crushing injuries.

As will being launched toward the front of the cabin. Best to have the infant in its own seat.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 22): Are we headed for bodycams for FA's similar to police officers? It certainly would resolve many of these passenger/airline disputes.

I doubt it. Undertaking such an expense (which would ultimately be passed on to the customer) to resolve occasional customer service disputes hardly seems necessary. It's a good idea for law enforcement to ensure that people's rights are not being violated, but flight attendants are not police.

Quoting catiii (Reply 25): Boy, you guys must be a blast to fly with on a 3 day trip. Rooting out all those fraudulent moms whose kids are just a few days over 2 years old...

It's illegal and it's unsafe. One of the responsibilities of the crew is to ensure compliance with federal aviation regulations for the safety of all passengers.

As a ticket agent, I've had several parents lie about the ages of their "lap" children even as I was holding the passport with the actual date of birth.

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 13): It is my understanding that, in order to capitalize from this incident, the band will now be known as Walk Off This Plane."

And by the end of the day, a video in the tradition of "United Breaks Guitars."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 44):

Uh, no and not the point.

A. Never surrender was a bigger hit but less memorable in the long term.
B. The point is Corey was a bigger star in Canada than was Bryan during the 80s, but the reverse was true in the USA. Ask any Canadian over 35 or look at the charts. Bryan's highest chart position in Canada in the 80s was 4. In the USA, 2 #1, #2 and 2 #3 and more top ten.

That changed with that horrible Robin Hood song that took the world by storm...

[Edited 2015-05-29 10:29:05]