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DeltaXNA
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Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 6:48 am

I know they used to base the 90s there. But has there ever been an 88 there?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 7:19 am

Yes.
Last time I remember was in the 2009-2010 range. SLC-MSP/SJC/DFW.
 
DeltaXNA
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 7:33 am

Ok. I couldn't find any pics in the database. That's why I was wondering.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 7:59 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 2):

oddly enough you are right. I think there are a few on some other sites.....
 
RobertS975
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 12:20 pm

There are previous threads about this subject. The MD88 has very specific and narrow performance issues which prevent its routine use out of SLC.

The main issue (as it was explained to me by DL pilots) has to do with the single engine climb gradient and the terrain on the airways out of SLC along published IFR routes. In other words, if an aircraft were to lose an engine shortly after takeoff, it would not be able to climb at a steep enough angle to clear terrain along published routes by proper heights.

Now before someone says "Well, it could just climb over the flat lake if it had to", that is not how the aviation system works. The assumption is low IFR weather and inability to return to the departure airport.

Others will point out that AA used MD82s to DFW and ORD, and certainly the series has been used at other high/hot airports (MEX, DEN). But one thing is for certain.... if DL could have made use of the 100+ MD88 fleet ex-SLC, they certainly would have done so.

[Edited 2015-05-31 05:27:09]
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 1:47 pm

I remember taking a few pics of M88's at SLC last decade...but I haven't been up there since 2012, so I can't speak to recent times.
 
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mayor
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 4):
Others will point out that AA used MD82s to DFW and ORD, and certainly the series has been used at other high/hot airports (MEX, DEN). But one thing is for certain.... if DL could have made use of the 100+ MD88 fleet ex-SLC, they certainly would have done so.

As I recall, when I was working there, that AA was having to block seats on their MD-82 seats, just to get the weights in line.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 4):
The main issue (as it was explained to me by DL pilots) has to do with the single engine climb gradient and the terrain on the airways out of SLC along published IFR routes. In other words, if an aircraft were to lose an engine shortly after takeoff, it would not be able to climb at a steep enough angle to clear terrain along published routes by proper heights.

This is correct. The single engine climb and engine out max altitudes limit the 88 to taking a hefty penalty in and out of SLC. It can be done but you're going to weight restrict--might as well use the MD-90 and take everything.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
BravoEchoNov
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 9:34 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 6):
As I recall, when I was working there, that AA was having to block seats on their MD-82 seats, just to get the weights in line.

Hmm. I just flew on the Md-82 out of SLC and all seats were full.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 10:09 pm

Rather than the single engine max altitude, I do believe that it was the climb gradient that was the problem. MD80 series aircraft operated out of places like DEN for years... lose an engine after takeoff, and simply turn towards the east, and it will not matter how slowly you are able to climb. Lose one out of SLC and there are no published airways that do not present a MCA (min crossing altitude) that can be met with a fully loaded MD88.

Funny thing is that Western flew 737-200s and as I recall, they climbed very sluggishly.

Like I said earlier, if DL could have operated this type out of SLC reliably, it most certainly would have with over 100 in the fleet.
 
Western727
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Sun May 31, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting BravoEchoNov (Reply 8):
Hmm. I just flew on the Md-82 out of SLC and all seats were full.

Maybe it was an -83, which AA also has? I know the -83 has superior range, but do they have more powerful engines than the -82, enough to make a difference in the aforementioned climb gradients?
Jack @ AUS
 
Viscount724
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 9):
Funny thing is that Western flew 737-200s and as I recall, they climbed very sluggishly.

Several Canadian carriers operated 737-200s into many small airports in mountainous areas in western Canada and with much shorter runways than SLC without any problems.
 
n9801f
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Several Canadian carriers operated 737-200s into many small airports in mountainous areas in western Canada and with much shorter runways than SLC without any problems.

Yes, I remember this, too. However average load factors today are 15-20 points higher than they were in those days, increasing the chance that a weight restriction will cause trouble.
 
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mayor
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:12 am

Quoting BravoEchoNov (Reply 8):

Hmm. I just flew on the Md-82 out of SLC and all seats were full.

I should have qualified what I said by adding in that I was talking about during the summer months.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 9):
Funny thing is that Western flew 737-200s and as I recall, they climbed very sluggishly.

So did DL.........we had a 737-200 mid day turn....CVG-SLC and back. In the fall and winter of '86, it was changed to a 757. Also, I worked load planning right after the WA merger and I don't recall any weight problems with the 737-200.......balance, yes.....weight, no.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Several Canadian carriers operated 737-200s into many small airports in mountainous areas in western Canada and with much shorter runways than SLC without any problems.

Do they have the hot & high problems that can occur at SLC during the summer?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:15 am

Quoting Western727 (Reply 10):

Maybe it was an -83, which AA also has? I know the -83 has superior range, but do they have more powerful engines than the -82, enough to make a difference in the aforementioned climb gradients?

It depends. I think you could get a MD82 with a 219, but they also had 217A and 217Cs.
I think some might have even had 209s.
So it depends. (I don't know the AA fleet well enough to say what they have)

I do believe the 83s came with 219s however.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 9):
Like I said earlier, if DL could have operated this type out of SLC reliably, it most certainly would have with over 100 in the fleet.

As i said, DL operated the MD88 out of SLC on regular ops as recently as 2009 (or 2010 can't remember for sure)
 
Viscount724
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Several Canadian carriers operated 737-200s into many small airports in mountainous areas in western Canada and with much shorter runways than SLC without any problems.


Do they have the hot & high problems that can occur at SLC during the summer?

No, but SLC also doesn't have 5,000 ft. runways which 732s frequently used in Canada, and sometimes gravel.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Has DL Ever Brought The MD88 To SLC?

Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:24 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Several Canadian carriers operated 737-200s into many small airports in mountainous areas in western Canada and with much shorter runways than SLC without any problems.

Not the issue specifically being discussed here. As long as the single engine climb rates needed for the published airways for a given airport can be met, there wouldn't be any issue.

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