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cageyjames
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Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 2:50 pm

As was announced last month, today is the last day that WP will serve LIH.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...ai_for_last_time.html?id=305583521

This leaves only HA as the only inter-island airline serving LIH. I hope that WP recovers from their downturn and LIH gains more local service soon.   
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 3:42 pm

I wonder if the onset of the 737NG's really reduced the need for inter-island service. It's too bad Island Air is having
problems holding their own.
 
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jaybird
Posts: 370
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 7:32 pm

It's a shame what's happened to IslandAir. I understand the focus on Lanai - but the plane they're flying is way too big for what they're trying to do. And that's the problem too - just exactly is it that they're trying to do? They need to figure it out very quickly.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 7:36 pm

That really is too bad as I thought that IslandAir were a fantastic little airline when I flew them last year, but I was concerned about being one of only 16 pax on 70 seat AT7 from HNL to LIH.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
CV880
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):

That really is too bad as I thought that IslandAir were a fantastic little airline when I flew them last year, but I was concerned about being one of only 16 pax on 70 seat AT7 from HNL to LIH.

Unfortunately, they had a niche market at Kapalua (West Maui) where the smaller DHC's were commonplace landing over Kaanapali Beach and long before that at Princeville Airport, Kauai. Ellison would have been better off with a smaller aircraft and deep pockets to convince the locals to extend the runway at JHM about 1000ft as West Maui continues to grow in population.
 
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jaybird
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting CV880 (Reply 4):

agreed .. they should never have pulled out of West Maui. They could have focused on the "resort" airports - Princeville, Lanai, Molokai, West Maui, either Kona or Waimea on the Big Island - to/from Honolulu - with smaller equipment. Ellison throwing money on them with their larger ATRs isn't going to help if they keep the direction they're going.

Eff 6/1/2015 there's 2 daily to Lanai (are both hotels undergoing renovation now or just one?) .. 6 to Kahului on Monday, 7 to Kahului on Tue/Wed/Thur/Fri and on Sat/Sun. Hawaiian has 24 daily to Kahului. I'm sorry - but why would you fly IslandAir to Kahului? Unless there's a big price difference (and there isn't) you won't.
 
N415XJ
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Sun May 31, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting jaybird (Reply 5):
Princeville

Quick question about this, do you mean Lihue/Kauai here? When I was in Princeville a few years ago the airport only seemed big enough for small GA aircraft. Could the Princeville airport be serviced by ATRs?
 
CV880
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 6):
Quick question about this, do you mean Lihue/Kauai here? When I was in Princeville a few years ago the airport only seemed big enough for small GA aircraft. Could the Princeville airport be serviced by ATRs?

Island used to fly to Princeville in the 1980's.

https://www.islandair.com/history

[Edited 2015-05-31 17:20:17]
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 7):
Island used to fly to Princeville in the 1980's

...with DHT Twin Otters. They originated as Princeville Airways with only DHTs before being acquired by Aloha and becoming Aloha IslandAir.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
Passedv1
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:43 am

The DHC-8 100's they flew for a long time was the PERFECT airplane for their route network... I haven't been following them for awhile...their plan to augment the route network with 400's failed 8 years ago. I cannot imagine what they were trying to accomplish by going to an all 70 seat fleet.
 
HNLPointShoot
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:20 am

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 9):
I cannot imagine what they were trying to accomplish by going to an all 70 seat fleet.

They were probably aiming to pick up market share from Hawaiian, which absorbed almost all of AQ's market share after 2008. Unfortunately, persistent reliability problems with their ATRs meant that could not happen. WP still flies HNL-OGG, and there may be enough potential revenue there to mount a comeback and restart service to Kauai and the Big Island in a couple years (if they don't go under before then.)

The interisland market could use a significant second airline to keep HA from abusing its market power in the long-term. (YV could've become that second airline in 2008-09, but they apparently decided to not expand after getting hammered in court.) WP clearly wants to be that second airline, and they will not be able to become that airline with 40-seat DH8As or AT4s.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:43 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
That really is too bad as I thought that IslandAir were a fantastic little airline when I flew them last year, but I was concerned about being one of only 16 pax on 70 seat AT7 from HNL to LIH.

My last flight on them in the end of 2012 was the same experience flying HNL-LNY-HNL

Quoting CV880 (Reply 7):
Island used to fly to Princeville in the 1980's.

Shortest flight I ever took was JHM-OGG on the Otter, we took off North, went around the top of the Island & followed the coastline down to Kahalui, it took eight minutes, cost ten dollars (WAY cheaper than a cab ride from Kapalua to Kahului), Where I was able to connect to AQ for a hop to HNL, then on HP HNL-LAS-PDX arriving home at 3:45am the next morning.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 8):
with DHT Twin Otters. They originated as Princeville Airways with only DHTs before being acquired by Aloha and becoming Aloha IslandAir.

Indeed Princeville airways was the original carrier, they started with Cessnas in the 70's IIRC. (I have a timetable of theirs from 1979, it's black with blue writing) when they got the Twotters I don't know.

The Twotters were one of my favorite way of flying between Islands, you could see light between the crack in the back door, but you were also low enough to observe the unique beauty that are the Hawaiian Islands & I personally NEVER EVER had pone problem in the early to mid 90's when I flew with them, too bad they are where they are now.

Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 10):
The interisland market could use a significant second airline to keep HA from abusing its market power in the long-term.

I love these Hawaii threads, it makes me long for the days of being kaamaaina, I envy everyone living with their head above water in the most perfect spot on earth.

That said, I was a resident a very long time ago early to mid nineties & both HA & AQ were flying I was working for Regal Travel (the largest locally owned travel company in the state, with 16 offices on 4 Islands plus Trans Hawaiian buses. I was their top corporate & VIP agent for the years I was there, I'd sell 1,000 coupons at a time for large corporate clients.

Inter Island fares have more than doubled since the time I was living in the Islands, which in comparison to a PDX-HNL r/t I got for $286.00 in Dec 2012, it seems that the fares to Hawaii are what they were when I lived there 20 years ago, but the Inter Island fares have more than doubled, It seems a strong competitor could help consumers realize some lower fares.

But I have a very hard time believing an unknown carrier with little to no street cred in Hawaii (ala Mesa) would ever have the support of the local market & lets face it locals make up a big part of the Inter Island market.

It would have to be a carrier that most Hawaiians are already familiar with, one that serves their Islands directly from the mainland with a somewhat loyal following already, I'd propose QX, but I know the problems involved would be too much for AAG to bite off & the payoffs would be rather small margins.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:02 pm

LIH is important, but not as important as Maui or the Big Island (and of course HNL). I suppose it makes sense for WP to get back to their profitable flights and then go from there. I wonder what a LIH-OGG (though they've have to fight HA) or LIH-KOA might do though.
 
covert
Posts: 1528
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:02 am

RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:55 am

I think DL could potentially take on HA because they now operate the ultra-efficient 717 of which BR715s are highly capable of quick turns, but it would probably dump too much capacity. IMO there really is only room for HA in the island trunk route market, i.e. between HNL/KOA/LIH/OGG.

Locals do tend to have some loyalty to a brand that they perceive as "local" but ultimately they will pay for what is cheaper.

Honestly though, my uneducated opinion tends to sway towards HA dominating the island trunk routes, with a Mokulele/Makani Kai type Part 135 single pilot operation being more fitting towards flying to places like Lanai/Molokai.

Island Air and their ATRs are too big for the market if you ask me.
none
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Island Air Leaves Kauai

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:44 pm

Quoting covert (Reply 13):
I think DL could potentially take on HA because they now operate the ultra-efficient 717 of which BR715s are highly capable of quick turns, but it would probably dump too much capacity. IMO there really is only room for HA in the island trunk route market, i.e. between HNL/KOA/LIH/OGG.

While clearly the 717 is a great aircraft for inter-island, after the YV madness I don't think we'll see anyone from the mainland try to take on these routes. Clearly HA will own the LIH/HNL/OGG/KOA market but I still think we can see WA do well serving OGG to other markets. Either Larry has the cash to fund such an endeavor or he'll just decide owning an airline is too much trouble and leave Ohana to pick up the slack.

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