Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

ROCDLFAN · Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:55 am

"Airlines keep trying new ways to get passengers on board more quickly, and cut costly delays. Delta’s “Early Valet” service will be available at busy airports."

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/tra...as-airlines-try-to-speed-boarding/

Personally, I don't really see this ending well.

Planeflyer · Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:56 am

I give them credit for trying. Hope it works out.

tmiw · Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:59 am

Isn't this just trying to solve the symptoms and not the actual problem (overcrowded bins)? Would going back to having one free checked bag for everyone help?

ROCDLFAN · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting tmiw (Reply 2):
Would going back to having one free checked bag for everyone help?

The ultimate irony is most of the flight does end up getting one free checked bag- When bins fill up what do you think agents do? They have to do a complimentary gate check to their final destination.

Indy · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:16 am

These stunts really make no sense. Just allow the 1 free checked bag and quit playing games. It is just something else to confuse people and it still creates unnecessary delays at security checkpoints because all of these unnecessary bags have to be screened. Checking bags would speed up security lines and boarding.

EA CO AS · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:16 am

Quoting tmiw (Reply 2):
Isn't this just trying to solve the symptoms and not the actual problem (overcrowded bins)?

Bigger bins are the answer, and AS is leading the charge on this. I'd expect all others to follow suit.

Raventech · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting tmiw (Reply 2):
Isn't this just trying to solve the symptoms and not the actual problem (overcrowded bins)? Would going back to having one free checked bag for everyone help?

Unlikely because I remember back in the early 00's when southwest had it's don't be a bin hog campaign. It's been a problem for a long time because most people would just rather keep everything than check it if given the choice regardless of cost.

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:32 am

Board a southwest 737-800 then board a Delta 737-800 it is INSANE how much faster you get on and off a southwest flight. Those bags really slow down the entire process.

syncmaster · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):
These stunts really make no sense. Just allow the 1 free checked bag and quit playing games.

It does to the airline, they make money on those fees and money on the cargo space that having people not check their bags creates.

tmiw · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting Raventech (Reply 6):
Unlikely because I remember back in the early 00's when southwest had it's don't be a bin hog campaign. It's been a problem for a long time because most people would just rather keep everything than check it if given the choice regardless of cost.

They could do what NK does and charge more for carry-ons than checked bags. Of course, NK is pretty hated amongst the flying public (albeit not just because of the carry-on fees).

atct · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
Bigger bins are the answer, and AS is leading the charge on this. I'd expect all others to follow suit.

Come to think, I haven't had a gate checked bag on an AS flight in ages. The last couple weeks every flight was full but the overheads had a few spots left at door closure.

Flighty · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:59 am

I see nothing wrong with delaying the flight as long as it takes to get the bags worked out. Maybe it will take all day. Whatever. Aircraft do have luggage decks, but airlines created a policy whereby they are not used.

Are we supposed to feel bad?

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):
Just allow the 1 free checked bag and quit playing games. It is just something else to confuse people and it still creates unnecessary delays at security checkpoints because all of these unnecessary bags have to be screened.

Amen.

DocLightning · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:01 am

I have a better idea: get rid of the overhead bins altogether. Allow one free checked bag. Customers who want their luggage faster can pay a $20 fee and be guaranteed that their bag will be on the carousel within 15 minutes of arrival at the gate (AS guarantees 20 minutes).

Anything that doesn't fit under the seat in front of you goes in the hold. Bins can be provided for the exclusive use of passengers in bulkhead rows.

It'll never happen but it will fix the problem.

rta · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:04 am

The main problem is that people are trying to bring these huge suitcases onboard and no one stops them before they get on the plane. Then the same people spend 10 minutes trying to fit the bag in. Sometimes they manage to fit it in, but a lot of other times they're awkwardly blocking the aisle with no idea what to do. And then there's people who will waste bin space with small items

This baggage valet isn't really addressing the issue here. I'm sure its optional to participate in. The people who know they have excessively large bags will not opt in, fearing that the airline staff won't try hard enough to fit the bag in and charge them a fee. The end result will be the same.

Gate agents need realistic tools (possibly a bag sizer that is adjustable to different aircraft types) to stop these people before they board. The current bag sizers are pretty useless, and as such, everyone ignores them.

northwestEWR · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:16 am

Quoting rta (Reply 13):
The main problem is that people are trying to bring these huge suitcases onboard and no one stops them before they get on the plane. Then the same people spend 10 minutes trying to fit the bag in. Sometimes they manage to fit it in, but a lot of other times they're awkwardly blocking the aisle with no idea what to do. And then there's people who will waste bin space with small items

Realistically, this won't change until people aren't allowed to pass through security without their bag fitting in one of the airline sizer things. And TSA isn't going to be the one enforcing airline policy.

They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

Side note: I think most of A.net would be surprised at how many people still check bags. An average MD-88 at Delta carries about 100 bags for 149 passengers.

[Edited 2015-06-01 20:17:28]

Freshside3 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:19 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):

These stunts really make no sense. Just allow the 1 free checked bag and quit playing games. It is just something else to confuse people and it still creates unnecessary delays at security checkpoints because all of these unnecessary bags have to be screened. Checking bags would speed up security lines and boarding.

Besides the gate arguments, there are also issues at the front check-in counters, due to the deals on these credit cards---as in "1st(and sometimes 2nd) bags if you use the card".

However, some people forget which credit card they paid for the ticket. Just because you have the card, doesn't necessarily you get the bag free. The ticket NEEDS to be paid on the SAME CARD. This of course wastes time having go to a PNR and check the form of payment, and causes arguments in the lobby.

My friends at UA also told me that standby causes a problem, too. This is because of their SHARES system requires people to be split out of a PNR, in order to be put on standby. The main problem occurs when everyone is on different PNRs, on the return flight. And of course, technically, the other passenger must travel with the sponsor, in order to get the free bag as being a companion with an Explorer Card member. In most cases, some "detective work" of cross-referencing needs to be done to verify this. Although, in most cases, things are figured out, this also causes some arguments, and eats up more time unneccessarily.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):

Bigger bins are the answer, and AS is leading the charge on this. I'd expect all others to follow suit.

Also the lack of closets. Some planes do not have closets.....and there is a certain expectation for somebody buying full-fare first or business, that there should be one for them.

deltal1011man · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):

Side note: I think most of A.net would be surprised at how many people still check bags. An average MD-88 at Delta carries about 100 bags for 149 passengers.

Free first check bag if you have an AMEX.... Hell that means the bulk of Atlanta gets a free bag

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):

Bigger bins are the answer, and AS is leading the charge on this. I'd expect all others to follow suit.

DL is also doing so.
The new 32S/757 and I think 737 bins are suspose to be bigger.

*IF people would use them right!*

rnav2dlrey · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:21 am

UA sent a survey to FF's a couple months ago, and a bag valet system for carryons just like this was one of the things that was asked about.

the logistics made me think it was some sort of joke, but i guess that's not the case. i wonder who will be responsible for damage or injury (UA FA's often go out of their way to not assist with loading items into the overheads, and i don't blame them).

vatveng · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):

DL is also doing so.
The new 32S/757 and I think 737 bins are suspose to be bigger.

They also have the huge bins AirTran installed on the 717s. I was happy when I found out Delta kept the overheads on the FL birds.

Mir · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:26 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

I've been flying back and forth between the US and Europe, and within Europe, on a regular basis on various carriers for the better part of two years and I have never seen one of those tags. So it's not nearly as widespread as you'd think.

-Mir

rta · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:26 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

Those have been pretty useless in my experience, especially the ones that tell you to put the item under your seat.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
Side note: I think most of A.net would be surprised at how many people still check bags. An average MD-88 at Delta carries about 100 bags for 149 passengers.

I wonder how many of those bags are charged a fee. A few posts up someone said that most people don't pay (directly, anyway) for their checked baggage, but it'd be interesting to see some numbers.

ROCDLFAN · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:27 am

In the long run, This is what I see happening:

This stunt is not logical and will not last, just like every other time something similar to this has been tried. I see DL following a fare structure similar to AA's (Choice, Choice Essential, Choice Plus, First). They have the basics down with the new Basic Economy, Regular Economy, and First already. I could see them creating an additional tier that would come with say 1 free bag as well as say SP Zone 1 boarding to increase public appeal.

In the long run, stations are taking hits because of these delays and are drastically affecting ontime performances. After a while, a 10min hit, especially on a mainline flight that is repetitive creates concern.

northwestEWR · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:29 am

This is a dumb program. We already do check bags at the gate prior to boarding when the flight is full. This is just a name for having to do it.

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

I've been flying back and forth between the US and Europe, and within Europe, on a regular basis on various carriers for the better part of two years and I have never seen one of those tags. So it's not nearly as widespread as you'd think.

-Mir

Interesting! My last trip through MUC, they were strict about them and every trip to AMS they've had them out. It's a good idea--wish it was enforced.

Flighty · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:31 am

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 21):
After a while, a 10min hit, especially on a mainline flight that is repetitive creates concern.

Of course... DL thinks they are making money, but you have to buy a couple extra AIRCRAFT here and there to counteract the delays.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):
*IF people would use them right!*

It's nobody's job to load luggage properly except luggage professionals and the FAs.

rta · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 22):

This is a dumb program. We already do check bags at the gate prior to boarding when the flight is full. This is just a name for having to do it.

It's not exactly the same thing. They're not checking the bags at the gate, instead they are loading them in the overhead bin.

Freshside3 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 22):
Interesting! My last trip through MUC, they were strict about them and every trip to AMS they've had them out. It's a good idea--wish it was enforced.

Those are wide-body trips. It may be a different story on a 737.

TW870 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:38 am

If you read the article, though, it says they are only trying this valet system on flights with a large mix of leisure travelers. I was a flight attendant for United before the era of checked bag fees, and I assure you that carry on bags were still a nightmare - especially in the summer when the mix of leisure travelers was higher. The issue with the summer/leisure crowd is that they are not prepared to load the bag quickly and step out of the aisle - especially if small children are involved. Therefore, I can actually see this idea working on some markets, and I do not think it is a "stunt". Of course it is not going to work to have valets loading bags on MSP-LGA - because everyone is a medallion on business. But on DTW-MCO or MSP-any of the mountain west destinations in June, this might actually pay for itself through reduced delay costs.

northwestEWR · Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting rta (Reply 24):

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 22):

This is a dumb program. We already do check bags at the gate prior to boarding when the flight is full. This is just a name for having to do it.

It's not exactly the same thing. They're not checking the bags at the gate, instead they are loading them in the overhead bin.

Ohhhhh, I didn't read the second part of the article. This is the single dumbest idea I've heard of in years. Gate agents and Red Coats have enough to do before departure. The ramp? Oh no, they can barely do a turn in the minimum times as is.

redzeppelin · Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:01 am

My thought is this:
Allow one free checked bag, with the requirement that it is acceptable carry-on size to be free. If it is a bigger size, standard fees apply. This would essentially formalize the practice of free gate-checking for full flights, but streamline the process for everyone involved.

usflyguy · Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:14 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 23):
It's nobody's job to load luggage properly except luggage professionals and the FAs.

LOL. No, if you bring a bag on the airplane, it is your responsibility to stow it once on board. If you can not manage what you've packed, you should check your bag.

Planeflyer · Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:27 am

Tough crowd! I still give them credit for trying. There's lots of flights where there's enough room but it still takes too long. Kids, older folks etc. if they can help these folks it's good for everyone. Let's see what happens.

deltal1011man · Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:28 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 23):

It's nobody's job to load luggage properly except luggage professionals and the FAs.

Uh, no. No thats completely false.

you bring it, you load it. Not only that, but reading simple English on how to put your bag in the bin the right way is not hard to do........

well clearly it is, but it shouldn't be.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 29):

LOL. No, if you bring a bag on the airplane, it is your responsibility to stow it once on board. If you can not manage what you've packed, you should check your bag.

exactly. Matter of fact it is NOT the job of the FAs.

and i have yet to see one of these "luggage professionals" in the cabin.

FlyASAGuy2005 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:43 am

Just FYi, this has been tested for months with positive reviews from passengers and gate agents/FAs. You're hearing about it now but it has been tested in AtL for quite some time now. I remember first reading about this some time last year.

TW870 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:46 am

I am curious how workers comp fits into the valet program. Lifting a heavy carry on above your head is really hard on your back, and not good if done repetitively. When I was at United, we were prohibited from stowing bags for passengers - simply because the cost of injured employees was prohibitive. This was a company policy, not a union one. Does DL plan on having ramp do this? Loading overhead bins could potentially be even more likely to cause injury than loading bags into the pit.

thegoldenargosy · Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:58 am

DL says that the pre-loading the bags saves 2-3 mins off the boarding process. There will be agents assigned to this. The seasonal agents will most likely being doing it.

LAXtoATL · Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:30 am

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 21):
In the long run, stations are taking hits because of these delays and are drastically affecting ontime performances. After a while, a 10min hit, especially on a mainline flight that is repetitive creates concern.

DL has the best on time performance of the US3 already and their pilot program says this improves boarding time.

Andy33 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:35 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

Really? Where in Europe?
If you check hold baggage in, the check-in agent may well apply stickers or tags to your hand baggage. This is done to assist the gate agents (and the cabin crew if the gate agents aren't too observant) so they know the bag has already been checked for size (and sometimes weight).
But vast numbers of people in Europe travelling with hand baggage only never see an airline employee until they reach the gate as they check-in online and print their own boarding passes or download them onto smartphones. Unlike the US, there are very few terminals dedicated to a single airline, and different airlines have widely differing maximum bag sizes. If bags were being checked for size at security it would take even longer to get through than it actually does,
What I have seen once is a bag rejected at Security because it was so big it wouldn't fit through the hand baggage x-ray scanner. That would by definition exceed any airline's limit.
In practice most bag size enforcement is done at the gate, and is done with sizing cages. Some airlines are keener than others at doing this, and the same applies to the gate agents.

ikramerica · Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:43 am

My carry on is not leaving my sight. Period. I put it in a bin I can see and stay aware when someone opens that bin. No offense, but I don't trust you guys or the airline employees.

The article doesn't indicate if its voluntary.

[Edited 2015-06-01 23:47:45]

[Edited 2015-06-02 00:16:51]

jetblue1965 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:53 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 37):

Exactly. Basically same risks as checking bag.

What they need is better enforcement of carry on sizes, not these lipstick on a pig dartboards.

PDX88 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:15 am

The "one free checked bag" system doesn't work without restrictions, or else people check the one free bag and also stuff the overhead bins full. My idea has always been that airlines should allow 1 free 50lb bag, with a "NO CARRY" printed on their boarding pass, meaning you get one bag at the ticket counter for free as long as you have no carry ons. This will immensely speed up boarding and convince those who take advantage of the system anyways to leave the bag at the counter instead of carrying everything through TSA and doing the free gate check. If your boarding pass says "NO CARRY" and you have a roll-aboard, that'll be $25 please.

doug_or · Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:33 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 7):
Board a southwest 737-800 then board a Delta 737-800 it is INSANE how much faster you get on and off a southwest flight.

That was true before the bag fees, though. Southwest passengers are in a rush to get on the plane ASAP to get a good seat... At least until the aisle/windows fill up.

OB1504 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:36 am

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 15):

However, some people forget which credit card they paid for the ticket. Just because you have the card, doesn't necessarily you get the bag free. The ticket NEEDS to be paid on the SAME CARD. This of course wastes time having go to a PNR and check the form of payment, and causes arguments in the lobby.

Not on AA, at least. All that's required is that the passenger have the credit card; the benefit is tied to the frequent flier number, not the form of payment. I would imagine that DL and UA are similar.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 23):
It's nobody's job to load luggage properly except luggage professionals and the FAs.

No. It is not in the job duties of the flight attendant to load carry-on baggage into the overhead bin.

[Edited 2015-06-02 00:37:46]

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:52 am

Quoting doug_or (Reply 40):
That was true before the bag fees, though. Southwest passengers are in a rush to get on the plane ASAP to get a good seat... At least until the aisle/windows fill up.

I literally got off a southwest flight yesterday it was totally full but there was TONS of overhead space. No one was elbowing each other and we deplaned very quickly . it was humane. I promise you the last people got off that plane minutes before the legacy customers and tons of space for the people who really need carryons and for laptop bags etc .

On my last united flight weeks ago the bins were almost popping open, they were force checking bags, and people were arguing and fighting with staff over bin space . Southwest two pieces is so much of a better system

Freshside3 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:15 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 41):
Not on AA, at least. All that's required is that the passenger have the credit card; the benefit is tied to the frequent flier number, not the form of payment. I would imagine that DL and UA are similar.

Quite a difference between AA and UA.....The free bag UA's "Explorer Card", technically, is mostly tied to the form of payment, not the mileage number. (Actually a combination of both). And it is also tied to the "primary" member. A spouse, who also has the credit card, is not entitled to a free bag, if traveling alone. The check in kiosks are also set up to automatically charge for bags for secondary holders of the card.

Again, there is a hassle at the front counter of looking at records, to determine if they are the "primary" card member or not. This, of course, slows things down.

AWACSooner · Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting tmiw (Reply 2):
Would going back to having one free checked bag for everyone help?

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):
These stunts really make no sense. Just allow the 1 free checked bag and quit playing games. It is just something else to confuse people and it still creates unnecessary delays at security checkpoints because all of these unnecessary bags have to be screened. Checking bags would speed up security lines and boarding.

Guys, I've been saying this for years on this forum and getting blasted by the various "bottom line/shareholders/why should I pay for your bag" defenders.

The airlines created this overhead bin carry-on mess by charging for checked bags. Then airlines like NK and F9 and G4 think that it's ok to take it one step further and gouge customers to load their own bags onto the plane via overhead bins.

The solution is simple...one free checked bag...and ENFORCE the carry-on size! The times I've flown them, FR doesn't seem to have a problem with the latter issue, as they are actively looking for violators. Doesn't fit, check it in. Already checked one in, pay up.

antoniemey · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:33 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 41):
I would imagine that DL and UA are similar.

With UA's card you must purchase the ticket with that card for the free bag to apply. A check-in agent CAN override it if the situation warrants, but they DO track how often things are overridden. The actual issue I run into is the credit card ad on the Kiosk screen starts of with "Free checked bag" and people stop reading there, then have a fit when there's a $25 fee for their bag.

offloaded · Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:04 pm

Or do what Easyjet does. Carry on size limit is in inches, 22.4 x 18 x 10. However, to guarantee it goes on board, max is 18 x 14.4 x 8. It's usually only around the first 90 people who can take the larger size.

georgiaame · Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:59 pm

Nope. Not with my laptop, possible passport, potentially my wallet to get through our brilliant and ever vigil TSA security, they are not taking my hand bag. It's bad enough when checking my luggage and hoping a) it arrives or b) arrives w/in 20 minutes. They can experiment, but not with my stuff, thank you.

cloudboy · Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:00 pm

How about we simply increase the time that an aircraft has to load and unload? While $30 a minute sounds bad, if you loose two, or even one customer because they lost their luggage when they desperately needed something, you have more than negated any gains you have made. People pay for the total flight experience. They don't separate time in air versus time on the ground like account seems want to do.

Tomassjc · Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:17 pm

Quoting atct (Reply 10):

Come to think, I haven't had a gate checked bag on an AS flight in ages. The last couple weeks every flight was full but the overheads had a few spots left at door closure

AS has been soliciting customers who check in at the counter to check their carry on size bag free of charge on full flights, which helps quite a bit!

Tomas SJC

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