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mcg
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:32 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

I've never seen this in my trips from Europe to the United States. What airports do this?
 
jayunited
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting rnav2dlrey (Reply 17):
the logistics made me think it was some sort of joke, but i guess that's not the case. i wonder who will be responsible for damage or injury (UA FA's often go out of their way to not assist with loading items into the overheads, and i don't blame them).

I don't blame them either. There have been times when I've had to help customers put their bags in the overhead bin because their bag was to heavy for them to lift up over their head. I honestly don't blame FA's who tell customers they can't put a customers bag into the overhead bin the exception being pregnant or elderly customers all other customers if you pack it you shuld be able to lift it. If you can't lift your heavy bag into the overhead bin then that bag needs to be checked and placed in the cargo hold. Not only does this slow the boarding process down it also slows down the the de-planing process as well because customers are forced to look for somebody to help them retrieve their heavy bag out of the overhead bin.

I agree with other that going back to 1 free checked bag upto 5o lbs for all passengers would cut down on the number of carry-on bags but lets be honest the airlines are ranking in billions in check bag fees there is no way they give up that revenu stream.
 
threeifbyair
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:44 pm

I applaud DL for trying a new idea. It would avoid situations like my last flight which had 6-8 small backpacks, purses, and messenger bags filling an entire bin. Filling bins more efficiently could probably fit 5-10 extra rolling bags, while also weeding out the bags that are obviously too large to fit.

However, the fundamental problem remains that there is not enough room for everyone to have bin space. We have higher load factors and more seats on the planes. That's responsible for ~20 additional bags easily.

Bag fees are not the only cause. I remember gate-checking even before first bag fees started. My last two WN flights had gate checked bags. I've had CR2s with full bins and that's with every rolling bag valet-checked. People just bring tons of stuff with them.

Even if airlines add staff, labor is not the only constraint to speeding up checked baggage handling. The overall baggage systems can't really scale with the added volume.

Bags come onto the carousel 1 by 1, say ~10 bags per minute. With 100 bags, it takes 10 minutes for bag #100 to reach the carousel. With 150 bags, bag #150 is not on the carousel for 15 minutes AFTER hitting the baggage belts. That's just one step in the process. First the plane has to be unloaded, which is also a 1 by 1 (or maybe 2 by 2 with forward and aft) process. Then the cart has to be stacked, driven to the belts, and unloaded again.
 
mcg
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:48 pm

My experience with DL (in DEN) is that the gate crew typically does a great job roaming the boarding line-up to solicit folks to hand over their carry on's for gate check. They've got a cool little printer that prints bag-tags and the really market the 'complimentary' aspect of the gate check. Seems like a better solution than schlepping bags into the overhead.
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:48 pm

Attach bins to their seat. Some seats may not have an associated bin, perhaps they get to check the carryon size - or pay less for the seat.
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roseflyer
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting rnav2dlrey (Reply 17):
the logistics made me think it was some sort of joke, but i guess that's not the case. i wonder who will be responsible for damage or injury (UA FA's often go out of their way to not assist with loading items into the overheads, and i don't blame them).

Moving multiple carry on bags at once is very awkward and slow. I can't imagine any type of cart or trolley fitting in the aisle, so that means it will have to be people (rampers) carrying the bags. With the cleaners, catering, flight attendants, and maintenance all working during the tight turn time, putting rampers with carry on bags in the cabin sounds like a disaster. The aisle of an airplane on that short amount of time between last passenger off and first passenger on is chaos. Getting bags in to the overhead bin sounds like a terrible idea.
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wilcharl
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:58 pm

I have switched the bulk of my flying from Delta to Frontier in the last year for the sole reason that boarding a Frontier flight is less stressful then boarding Delta.

Watch how quickly Frontier boards and deplanes. I support charging a premium to bring bags into a cabin where they do not belong. If you want to bring your bag, you can, but you have to pay.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:16 pm

While the increased amount of carry on luggage has undoubtedly made boarding times longer, so has boarding by zones that do not correspond to any particular area of the aircraft. What I find with the zone style boarding is that two things happen: you either have to climb over somebody to get to your seat or somebody has to climb over you and second, you will find yourself trying to get past people attempting to stuff luggage into the overhead bins in order to get to your seat. If airlines went back to boarding by rows I feel like that would make the whole boarding process quicker by eliminating such problems. Obviously this will not happen because the whole reason airlines moved to boarding by zone was to reward FFs, etc. but if the airlines complain about boarding times, I don't have sympathy because they made the bed they're sleeping in.
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:27 pm

Back when I was flying Non-Rev, I can remember being almost the last to board a full flight, and getting to my seat, and opening the overhead bin to find it crammed full, but from other row's carry-ons. Then, later in the flight, these "strangers" from other rows would make a couple of appearance to my overhead to get something (on longer full flights). To get my (2) carry-ons stowed, I would have to walk practicaly to the back of the plane to stow one bag in an overhead. The other, would go under the seat (in front of me). And, I will say, that after opening some of the other overhead bins that were stuffed full, it was not always easy to close and lfully lock the bin.

Before all of these "extra" airline fees for checked baggage, the stuff in overhead bins wasn't quite so heavy. But when those check baggage fees started to increase, boy, did the weight of carry-ons increase, and so, I'd assume, the magnitude of injuries when overhead bins would dump their contents out on passengers from rough turbulence, or incompletely locked bins. The FAs can only check those so many times...

But, I will say, that on flights where I got to board early, I too would sometimes dump a heavy and large carry-on "duffle bag" in an overhead bin near the front of the coach section, to lessen the strain of standing in a long exit line after landing, with that heavy beast on my back. Obviously, when travelling Non-Rev, and not knowing 100% ahead of time, if you were or were not going to make a particular flight, checking bags was not a first option, generally.

I wonder what the temptation for theft will be from handling some carry-ons, depending on who is stowing those bags from the gate to the plane...
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ytz
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 57):
Obviously this will not happen because the whole reason airlines moved to boarding by zone was to reward FFs, etc.

More specifically to allow FFs to get to the luggage bins quicker, a demand they created from charging fees to everybody else which resulted in more cramped bins.

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 57):
but if the airlines complain about boarding times, I don't have sympathy because they made the bed they're sleeping in.

Exactly. This was an entirely predictable outcome.

And one that's easy to remediate too. Allow one checked bag. Strictly enforce carry-on sizes and numbers. Go back to boarding business first, then status pax and then back to front of the economy cabin.
 
Flighty
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 41):
No. It is not in the job duties of the flight attendant to load carry-on baggage into the overhead bin.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 29):
LOL. No, if you bring a bag on the airplane, it is your responsibility to stow it once on board. If you can not manage what you've packed, you should check your bag.

Just saying many passengers do not have loading expertise. This is going to cost minutes on every flight. I am tired of airlines berating passengers for their lack of professionalism in loading. Nobody ever said the passengers are professional loadmasters. Nor are they paid for that.

If you want quality loading, use the professionals. F/As are intimiately involved on every flight. Being human/carryon loadmaster is absolutely their job. Don't tell me it's my job to think about this stuff. If you want to be a bizjet airline, go do that. If you want the unwashed masses, and want to run planes on time, more thought is needed. So I applaud this initiative.

Even better would be a return to free bags. It would lower turn times by a few minutes. Probably not enough to do another leg in a day for every airplane. But some. You can bet WN leverages that.
 
SELMER40
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 38):
...better enforcement...

Yes. The red bag in the picture is too large to be near a boarding area. It should have been checked at the ticket counter. What can be seen of the backpack indicates it is oversize, also.

[Edited 2015-06-02 08:53:11]
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cloudboy
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:53 pm

All comes down to airlines want to add seats and fill their planes more, but they refuse to add more storage space for the increase in passengers. Until airlines can do something to guarantee a passenger has access to their bag after every flight leg, and in a reasonably quick amount of time, people will always be fighting for space. Its not like people are traveling with more stuff - they are traveling with less. Only there are more of them.

That is the cost of the supposed lower airfares. If you don't like the extra boarding time, why not pay for flights with fewer people? Oh yeah, there Is no other option.
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tockeyhockey
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 28):
My thought is this:
Allow one free checked bag, with the requirement that it is acceptable carry-on size to be free. If it is a bigger size, standard fees apply. This would essentially formalize the practice of free gate-checking for full flights, but streamline the process for everyone involved.

a good idea, but i think it only catches on if it works like gate-checked bags work -- i.e., you get the bag back on the jetway rather than having to go to the baggage claim.
 
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tlecam
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

I regularly fly through Europe, and while I sometimes see this (especially on Lufthansa), most of my flights which span a number of carriers, do not do this.
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compensateme
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 43):
Quite a difference between AA and UA.....The free bag UA's "Explorer Card", technically, is mostly tied to the form of payment, not the mileage number. (Actually a combination of both). And it is also tied to the "primary" member. A spouse, who also has the credit card, is not entitled to a free bag, if traveling alone. The check in kiosks are also set up to automatically charge for bags for secondary holders of the card. Again, there is a hassle at the front counter of looking at records, to determine if they are the "primary" card member or not. This, of course, slows things down.

Not the case with DL or AA. No matter which form of payment you use, you're entitled to full AMEX/Citi benefits - the sole exception is the on-board discount, in which purchases need to be charged to the credit card to receive the discount.
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747megatop
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:52 pm

Quoting tmiw (Reply 2):
Would going back to having one free checked bag for everyone help?

Passengers would just bring more bags. If DL wants to speed things up then they should charge for carryons (other than purses, hand bags, laptop cases etc.) and make 2 checked bags free. This would speed things up at the security check for the passenger and at boarding too. The biggest bottleneck in boarding is passengers in the process of fitting heavy & big carryon bags into the overhead bins blocking everyone behind them.
 
LH707330
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 7):
Board a southwest 737-800 then board a Delta 737-800 it is INSANE how much faster you get on and off a southwest flight. Those bags really slow down the entire process.

That's partly because the bingo boarding is a better system than DL's. The best is the Steffen method, but good luck enforcing that.

Quoting tmiw (Reply 9):
They could do what NK does and charge more for carry-ons than checked bags. Of course, NK is pretty hated amongst the flying public (albeit not just because of the carry-on fees).

It seems to work, once that expectation is set I imagine they have fewer delays. As long as it doesn't come off as too sleazy during the booking process, it should be fine.

Quoting rta (Reply 13):
The main problem is that people are trying to bring these huge suitcases onboard and no one stops them before they get on the plane. Then the same people spend 10 minutes trying to fit the bag in. Sometimes they manage to fit it in, but a lot of other times they're awkwardly blocking the aisle with no idea what to do. And then there's people who will waste bin space with small items

Bingo, these need to be sorted out earlier.

Quoting rta (Reply 13):
Gate agents need realistic tools (possibly a bag sizer that is adjustable to different aircraft types) to stop these people before they board. The current bag sizers are pretty useless, and as such, everyone ignores them.

Plus the enforcement is lax. If I were a gate agent, I'd rather not have to berate everyone about their bag. Give me some cut of everyone's oversize bag fee though and we can talk  
Quoting Flighty (Reply 60):
Just saying many passengers do not have loading expertise. This is going to cost minutes on every flight. I am tired of airlines berating passengers for their lack of professionalism in loading. Nobody ever said the passengers are professional loadmasters. Nor are they paid for that.

Right. I see this all the time, inefficient passengers are everywhere, so while it may be fun to call them stupid, it doesn't fix anything.

I think the airlines need to be more transparent and upfront about this if they want to fix it. If there's a checkbox at booking that says "my carryon is smaller than x," then pax are more likely to pay attention.

Here are the main drivers of the present chaos:
1. Bag fees driving bigger carryons
2. Carousel delays/losses are a hassle
3. Boarding FFs first (partly due to #1)
4. Insufficient enforcement of rules
5. No charges for carryons

As long as these persist, we'll keep seeing this problem.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:03 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 27):
This is the single dumbest idea I've heard of in years. Gate agents and Red Coats have enough to do before departure. The ramp? Oh no, they can barely do a turn in the minimum times as is.

I don't think it is dumb, it is just trail and error. I think it is a good idea. I have been in that situation where we take at least 30 bags from the gate, load all the other checked bags and freight and then take another at least 15 bags. Depending on the plane there is a science to loading the overhead bins which your typical airline pax can not figure out. Also as for the staffing, I believe there will be a gate agent whose task is to load the bags in the overhead bins. The ramp will not fit that role because that takes them from below the wing to above wing duties in a way.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 32):

Just FYi, this has been tested for months with positive reviews from passengers and gate agents/FAs. You're hearing about it now but it has been tested in AtL for quite some time now. I remember first reading about this some time last year.

Yes, I have been hearing about this now for over a year and it has gotten alot of praise... Other carriers may follow suit.
I guess my question with this program is there a special cart to move the bags? because the carts we use at our gates are designed to transport small items like a computer or a box of copy paper, not a dozen plus bags...

Quoting mcg (Reply 53):

My experience with DL (in DEN) is that the gate crew typically does a great job roaming the boarding line-up to solicit folks to hand over their carry on's for gate check. They've got a cool little printer that prints bag-tags and the really market the 'complimentary' aspect of the gate check. Seems like a better solution than schlepping bags into the overhead.

Yes and also other stations use the boarding pass scanner to print bag tags.
 
airbazar
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting tmiw (Reply 2):
Isn't this just trying to solve the symptoms and not the actual problem (overcrowded bins)? Would going back to having one free checked bag for everyone help?

  
I hate carrying luggage on board. I only do it because I don't want to pay for checked luggage.

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 3):
The ultimate irony is most of the flight does end up getting one free checked bag- When bins fill up what do you think agents do? They have to do a complimentary gate check to their final destination.

  
That's why I like to board last. I don't care if my luggage goes into the hold. I actually prefer it so I don't have to haul it in and out of the plane. I just don't want to pay for it  

The other problem is people don't like to be separated from their belongings, especially if it includes expensive and irreplaceable items. That's usually the reason people didn't check bags even when it was free.
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 13):
The main problem is that people are trying to bring these huge suitcases onboard and no one stops them before they get on the plane. Then the same people spend 10 minutes trying to fit the bag in. Sometimes they manage to fit it in, but a lot of other times they're awkwardly blocking the aisle with no idea what to do. And then there's people who will waste bin space with small items

Your comment implies that people should travel with the "perfect" bag that fits the exact dimensions of the overhead bin. This is a little difficult since there is no standard size for bins. Perhaps, this should be a beginning point. IMAGINE if the FAA establishes a set of dimensions for overhead bins across the industry, then manufacturers would produce "approved" bags for overhead storage. I just solved the overhead problem. Have a uniform system!!!! Voila!!!
Your last sentence was a bit insulting. I am one of those who carries only a small bag with what I need. And yes, I have traveled extensively but I have learned to pack only what's necessary. If I board first and I place my small bag on the overhead, I am not "wasting" bin space. I am occupying it.

FLY2LIM
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cjg225
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:30 pm

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 70):
If I board first and I place my small bag on the overhead, I am not "wasting" bin space. I am occupying it.

What if your bag would clearly fit in the underseat storage space? I think that's what rta was getting at.

I am perturbed when I see people not using the underseat space and instead putting their smaller bags, jackets, etc. up in the bin and then getting defensive when someone asks them if it can be moved or stowed under the seat so that a roll-aboard or other larger bag can fit into the space.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:52 pm

I think this is the first step towards charging for carry-ons. People are willing to pay for that as it is convenient and a service. Checking a bag is a hassle. I don't want to do it unless I have to and even then I don't want to pay for it, which is why I carry US/DL credit cards.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 71):
I am perturbed when I see people not using the underseat space and instead putting their smaller bags, jackets, etc. up in the bin and then getting defensive when someone asks them if it can be moved or stowed under the seat so that a roll-aboard or other larger bag can fit into the space.

Or a bag that should clearly be checked and has no business even fitting in an overhead bin after they've extended it 4 times and put an anvil on it just to get the zipper to be able to close.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 68):
Yes, I have been hearing about this now for over a year and it has gotten alot of praise... Other carriers may follow suit.
I guess my question with this program is there a special cart to move the bags? because the carts we use at our gates are designed to transport small items like a computer or a box of copy paper, not a dozen plus bags...

Honestly, I'm not sure 100% how the logistics of it is actually worked out but I know, liek you stated as well, that it has been tested extensively in the hubs including ATL, MSP, SLC, and JFK.

As to everyone else talking about to solve the problem is to stop charging for bags..bags are causing delays...it's not going to happen. For one, DL's on-time performance has never been better. In fact for May, they clocked in at a whopping 87.3%. The numbers don't support what everyone is claiming...
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tlecam
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:08 pm

I had an experience over the winter related to this. The story involves UA, but I don't tell this to bash UA because I find the UA gate agents are better than most about enforcing carry on size. This probably contributes to the so-called reputation that UA customer service is worse than other carriers.

I was flying from JAC-BOS(Jackson Hole) through Denver. I rarely fly UA and have no status - I was in group 4 or 5 for boarding. As I was waiting to board the DEN-BOS leg with a friend, we were laughing about some of the people bring carry ons on board. In particular, one gentleman had both a roller-board and a garment bag. He was in the coach line, and not in the Premier Exec group. I actually took a picture to send to another friend. Inevitably, the message comes that the bins are full and anything that can't be fit under the seat in front will need to be gate checked. My buddy had a rollerboard, and when the roaming United gate agent came over to tag it, we commented on the stuff that folks were bringing on board. He insisted that they enforced the policy tightly - I showed him a picture and he didn't really have anything else to say. I told him that I'm nto giving him a hard time, I know it's a problem, but that it has to be frustrating for passengers in groups 4/5 to watch the rules go un-enforced. He agreed - said he would take it back to his manager. I never followed up, but I thought that the difference in his perpective from reality was a bit of a surprise for him.

Now having said all that, I find that AA and DL are worse than UA about enforcing carry on size, with Delta being the worst.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 73):
In fact for May, they clocked in at a whopping 87.3%. The numbers don't support what everyone is claiming...

It without a doubt affects turn time and the amount of padding they add to certain routes. As stated earlier WN 738 vs a DL738.
 
Mir
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 71):
I am perturbed when I see people not using the underseat space and instead putting their smaller bags, jackets, etc. up in the bin and then getting defensive when someone asks them if it can be moved or stowed under the seat so that a roll-aboard or other larger bag can fit into the space.

If they already have another bag in the bin, then I agree. But for some people, legroom is very tight, and being able to stretch your legs out under the seat is important. So I have no problem with people who only have one bag putting that bag in the bin even if it would fit under their seat.

-Mir
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Taity
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:48 pm

A great idea. Thinking outside the box. Benefits both passengers, airport and airline.

Less luggage for passengers to take through security meaning less issues, shorter queues (to a point as it's a small trial) and happier passengers. Coupled with quicker boarding meaning happier passengers and a more efficent airline.

Winner all round!
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cjg225
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:53 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 72):
I think this is the first step towards charging for carry-ons. People are willing to pay for that as it is convenient and a service. Checking a bag is a hassle. I don't want to do it unless I have to and even then I don't want to pay for it, which is why I carry US/DL credit cards.

And I will gladly fork over the money to take on a carry-on. There are few things I dislike more about travel than waiting for checked luggage. Just so irksome, even if a somewhat small inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. Plus, I like for my belongings to be within sight (or difficult to tamper with without me knowing beforehand) at all times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 76):
If they already have another bag in the bin, then I agree. But for some people, legroom is very tight, and being able to stretch your legs out under the seat is important. So I have no problem with people who only have one bag putting that bag in the bin even if it would fit under their seat.

I can see that to some extent. But I also see this from many people who are simply not that tall. I'm 5'11", so no California Sequoia, but not average, either. I've never really felt too constricted by the legroom on airplanes. I see plenty of smaller people throwing their jackets and small bags up there, none of which would take up much space below a seat, anyway, leaving a decent sized hole for feet/legs to extend.
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DAL763ER
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
They have very strict carry-on policies in Europe and every single bag gets an "Approved Carryon Luggage" sticker or tag after being checked by Airline Staff before being allowed through security. That needs to come to the US.

If you never pass by the check in desk, you'll never get such a tag. I know I never have when flying within Europe as I travel with just a carry-on.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 23):
It's nobody's job to load luggage properly except luggage professionals and the FAs

Actually, no. The FAs are not paid to put people's junk in the overhead. They're there for your safety. It should be common sense that you want to put your bag in the bin as considerately as possible so that everyone can. I hate it when people place a small bag or handbag in the overhead, using space that could otherwise be available for a small suitcase. And this:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 29):
LOL. No, if you bring a bag on the airplane, it is your responsibility to stow it once on board. If you can not manage what you've packed, you should check your bag.

  
 
OB1504
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 69):
I hate carrying luggage on board. I only do it because I don't want to pay for checked luggage.

Why don't you just gate check it for free? I've been doing that for the past two years now.
 
cschleic
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:33 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 66):
Passengers would just bring more bags. If DL wants to speed things up then they should charge for carryons (other than purses, hand bags, laptop cases etc.) and make 2 checked bags free. This would speed things up at the security check for the passenger and at boarding too. The biggest bottleneck in boarding is passengers in the process of fitting heavy & big carryon bags into the overhead bins blocking everyone behind them.

This is an interesting idea, because it addresses the problem. Sure, fee revenue might go down (from current levels with checked bags), but delay costs should go down as well, and it's the %'s that matter.

For Delta's test, who exactly will be loading bags? F/A's who I've heard say they're told not to help passengers with carryons because of weight concerns, the ramp bag people who throw them around on the ramp, gate agents who are busy doing other things, or new employees from one of these groups?
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 38):


Exactly. Basically same risks as checking bag.

What they need is better enforcement of carry on sizes, not these lipstick on a pig dartboards.

No. The early valet takes the bag from customer and immediately loads it in overhead bin over passenger's seat and returns with a receipt before boarding begins. There is of course risk with any process that involves humans but this one is pretty safe. The exception being that the agent solicits for early valet bags for the flight to MIA and the passenger traveling to PDX on the following departure volunteers their bag and the agent doesn't verify the boarding pass and the customer who failed to pay attention to the original announcement also fails to check the receipt. As most infrequent travelers would assume the bags would be placed under the plane, I assume Medallions who understand what is going on would be the ones taking the most advantage of the program (drop bag off early then go to sky club or restaurant and casually return just before takeoff instead of fighting to be the first onboard to get bin space near their seat)

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 72):
I think this is the first step towards charging for carry-ons. People are willing to pay for that as it is convenient and a service. Checking a bag is a hassle. I don't want to do it unless I have to and even then I don't want to pay for it, which is why I carry US/DL credit cards.


Absolutely. Get people hooked on the service for free and then add a fee for the service. Although with Delta I could still see them offering it to Medallions for free.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 75):
It without a doubt affects turn time and the amount of padding they add to certain routes. As stated earlier WN 738 vs a DL738.

There is no padding to turn times! That is why they are always so concerned about quick turns. Turn times are set by aircraft time and are not very generous (for any airline). What you are referring to is block time or flight time tthat gets padded on certain routes.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 75):
It without a doubt affects turn time and the amount of padding they add to certain routes. As stated earlier WN 738 vs a DL738.

Of course it does but not to the point where they will stop charging for bags. Again, the numbers are not there to support it. If it were that bad they would be doing it system wide and year-roud. Not only on outbound hub flights and to certain cities only in the summer months. It's easy to get to 90% (talking theories here) but usually it's the last 5-10% that's the hardest. DL has come up with something to make up for the last 5-10%.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 81):
For Delta's test, who exactly will be loading bags? F/A's who I've heard say they're told not to help passengers with carryons because of weight concerns, the ramp bag people who throw them around on the ramp, gate agents who are busy doing other things, or new employees from one of these groups?

There are a group of seasonal employees taht do this. Their sole job (as assigned; they may not do it everyday) is to manage the gate checks. That is why only hubs participate and to a few select cities we're they've seen a higher number of outbound delays due to carry-ons.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 82):
No. The early valet takes the bag from customer and immediately loads it in overhead bin over passenger's seat and returns with a receipt before boarding begins.

Is DL increasing turn times to provide this service? Seems to me such a procedure would completely take time away from the turn. I see on time performance heading south quickly!

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 82):
There is no padding to turn times! That is why they are always so concerned about quick turns. Turn times are set by aircraft time and are not very generous (for any airline). What you are referring to is block time or flight time tthat gets padded on certain routes.

I was unclear. If DL has had to schedule longer turns due to longer boarding procedures that could be a rationale. Adding padding to the block time is the other way to counter act longer boarding. Neither of those times would show up in the on time percentage, but they would certainly affect $$. Now does that mean not charging would make up the difference, no, that would depend on first bag revenue.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 83):
It's easy to get to 90% (talking theories here) but usually it's the last 5-10% that's the hardest. DL has come up with something to make up for the last 5-10%.

DL has obviously identified a potential solution to the problem, but I'm curious to see exactly how it is implemented and that would hint at future plans.
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 38):
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 38):


What they need is better enforcement of carry on sizes, not these lipstick on a pig dartboards.

I meant to comment on this previously.
You are absolutely correct!
I do not understand why they do not enforce there own rules better. Everybody can see how blatantly passengers have bags that are too bag and too many bags as they board the plane.
At some point I believe they will figure out how to efficiently charge for carry-ons and that will really deter people from bringing their luggage to the gate.

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 84):

Is DL increasing turn times to provide this service? Seems to me such a procedure would completely take time away from the turn. I see on time performance heading south quickly!

Tomas SJC

No increase to turn times!
They are doing this to shorten the boarding process. They said the pilot program showed 2-3 minute improvement in boarding time.
What they are doing is during the time between when the aircraft is cleaned and when they crew is ready to board is to load a handful of bags early. Does not add any additional time to the process. It reduces the boarding time because you might have 10 bags that were loaded before boarding officially began and now those bags don't have to be stowed during the boarding process. Nothing major here, but every little bit helps (in this case 2-3 minutes).



FOR ALL THOSE WHO ARE SUGGESTING THE AIRLINES SHOULD GO BACK TO ALLOWING FOR FREE CHECKED LUGGAGE... PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE UP THAT SILLY IDEA! I won't discuss the merits of the idea, but we all know (or should know) that it is not ever going to happen. There is too much money being made and passengers are accustomed to paying for it. There is no going back. In fact the fees will only increase, new fees created (I.e. For carry-ones), and additional airlines participating (I.e. southwest). It is inevitable.
 
global1
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:47 am

Early Valet is not intended as a program for Medallions and such. It actually targets the infrequent and inexperienced travelers. The logic is that business travelers are very adept at stowing their luggage. They are not the ones who slow the process down. You won't be seeing this as much on Atl-Lga as say Atl-Mco.
Selected flights at hubs are profiled by aircraft type, statistical delay data, and customer profile.
Valets are hired for this specific function. They are not flight attendants or customer service agents.

[Edited 2015-06-02 17:59:20]

[Edited 2015-06-02 18:14:43]
 
mcg
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:32 am

Who takes the bags out of the bins and carries them to the arrival gate when the flight reaches it's destination?
 
lweber557
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:59 am

Last time I flew on American they gave a complimentary gate check for every leg of my trip. I was one of the few people who took advantage of this. Didn't have to carry my bag around DFW during my layover and it was among the first to show up on the belt at the baggage claim.
FAA Licensed Aircraft Dispatcher
 
Freshside3
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting lweber557 (Reply 89):
Last time I flew on American they gave a complimentary gate check for every leg of my trip. I was one of the few people who took advantage of this. Didn't have to carry my bag around DFW during my layover and it was among the first to show up on the belt at the baggage claim.

Usually the bags that go on last are the ones that come off first, generally speaking....
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting global1 (Reply 87):
Early Valet is not intended as a program for Medallions and such. It actually targets the infrequent and inexperienced travelers. The logic is that business travelers are very adept at stowing their luggage. They are not the ones who slow the process down. You won't be seeing this as much on Atl-Lga as say Atl-Mco.
Selected flights at hubs are profiled by aircraft type, statistical delay data, and customer profile.
Valets are hired for this specific function. They are not flight attendants or customer service agents.


I agree with everything you say except who they are targeting.
Why would they care who they gets the bags from? I'm sure they are targeting a specific number of bags per flight can't imagine they care who they come from.

Quoting mcg (Reply 88):

Who takes the bags out of the bins and carries them to the arrival gate when the flight reaches it's destination?


The passenger.
Think of the program as allowing the passenger to go onboard early stow their carry-on above their seat. Instead this program has an agent put the bag onboard for the passenger.
 
jetblue777
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 80):

He literally said that he doesn't mind his luggage being gate checked.

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 70):

You're assuming that every aircraft has the same dimensions. An overhead bin on a 777 would obviously have to be bigger than that of the 757 or else it would not maximize the space that the A/C has, not to mention it'll look silly.

Uniform bins is not the answer.

Anyways, I gotta give up to DL for trying something new. Obviously it'll take trial and error, and if it works, then great for them. Although most of the criticisms bring up good points, you still can't deny the fact that DL is at least trying.

But somehow, all these debates remind me of AirTran's commercial that mocked Southwest's seemingly stupid "herding cattles" boarding style. But many passengers seem to prefer this option and funnily enough, AirTran's now integrated to Southwest.

JetBlue777   
It's a cultural thing.
 
nzrich
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:30 am

All I can see is back problems for the staff having to lift all those bags .
The costs of having staff off work with back injuries due to lifting bags will stop this service in the end .
"Pride of the pacific"
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:17 am

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 84):

No turn times are not increasing.

And agin, this is not new. Theyve been doing this since last year but it wasnt public. Data showed improvement in the boarding process for these targeted flights. Turn time is set by a/c type and where its goign/coming from (dom-intl/intl-dom etc).
What gets measured gets done.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:24 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 44):


The solution is simple...one free checked bag...and ENFORCE the carry-on size! The times I've flown them, FR doesn't seem to have a problem with the latter issue, as they are actively looking for violators. Doesn't fit, check it in. Already checked one in, pay up.

I agree completely

but with one small, little change.

25 buck fare increase across the system for all the airlines.
 
OMP777X
Posts: 455
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting Taity (Reply 77):
Less luggage for passengers to take through security meaning less issues, shorter queues (to a point as it's a small trial) and happier passengers. Coupled with quicker boarding meaning happier passengers and a more efficent airline.

I'm not sure whether you missed part of the article, or the whole thing, but the passengers will be in possession of their carry on luggage until they reach the gate.

I'm wondering how passengers would know exactly where their luggage was stowed. Would the receipt they're given indicate a row number, and which side of the plane it is located on? How is it that they don't end up with a group of people who are clogging up the aisle while searching for their carry in luggage upon arrival?

Best,

OMP777X
"Happy Flighting!"
 
mcg
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:37 pm

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 96):
I'm wondering how passengers would know exactly where their luggage was stowed. Would the receipt they're given indicate a row number, and which side of the plane it is located on? How is it that they don't end up with a group of people who are clogging up the aisle while searching for their carry in luggage upon arrival?

That's why at the arrival gates all passengers need to remain seated until the arrival valets have off loaded the 'valeted' carry ons.
 
ytz
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:34 pm

The airlines have it backwards. It's carryon luggage that should be a privilege. Not checked luggage. Think about it. Frequent flyers value carry-on luggage because checked luggage costs them time and risks delays and lost bagage. Airlines should have a strict policy. 1 personal article (like a laptop bag) and one smaller article (like a purse). And that's it. Anything else, you pay. And you get 1 free checked bag. Watch how quickly turns improve.....
 
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XAM2175
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RE: Delta To Begin Pre-loading Carryon Bags In Hubs

Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 97):

Really? Surely doing it that way would completely negate the two-to-three minute saving in boarding?

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