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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:20 pm

Hi All,

The previous discussion was beyond 200+ response's & extremely slow to load for users so Part 122 has been created to continue the conversation.

The previous thread can be found here: Australian Aviation Thread Part 121 (by allrite May 16 2015 in Civil Aviation)

# QF A380's vs B748i load factors & was the A380 the right choice of aircraft?
# Mazda 121 better known as "the jelly bean" car as it looked like, with a colour range of, jelly beans, probably the first of the micro light cars. 
# China Airlines to resume seasonal flights from Sydney to Christchurch. Service to run on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays from 3 November 2015 to 26 March 2016,
# Discussions surrounding QFs remaining 2 LHR slots & any future plans
# TT seen as worst airline according to Ombudsman - Tigerair is hands down the worst airline, says ombudsman
# PR to launch MNL-CNS-AKL 4x weekly on an A320 from December. http://www.ausbt.com.au/philippine-a...hes-manila-cairns-auckland-flights
# Engine ratings on QF B73H fleet
# Lengthy discussion continues surrounding QFs brewing B787 order & new routes
# Perth news that state MP's are considering a $2 noise tax for every passenger & money raised will be used for insulation in houses surrounding the airport. Source: http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...dents/story-fnhocxo3-1227362034882
# QF12 LAX-SYD diverts to HNL, operated by VH-OQL 22/5
# Delays with QF freight in DRW due to the lack of wide bodies operating DRW sectors
# Discussion surrounding the possible sell off of QFE & QF Catering division
# NEW NZ lounge opens in Sydney. Source: http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zeal...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper
# Restored 'flying boat' takes pride of place at Qantas Founders Museum in Longreach"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-2...-of-place-at-qantas-museum/6488426
# A330 NEO & in terms of being part of the future QF fleet
# NZ expands AKL-PER in Northern winter season from 7 to 10 weekly, from 11DEC15 to 01MAY16 with the service to be operated by Boeing 767-300ER. Source: http://airlineroute.net/2015/05/15/n...ec15/
# Restrictions between domestic airports North of the Tropic of Capricorn to be removed
# Anthony Albanese slams plan to let foreign airlines fly Top End routes
# First QF A332 returned to a lessor VH-EBH last operated QF 81 SYD-SIN on May 12th
# Jetstar Pacific reports a profit of USD4.6 million for the 4 months ending April 30th, 2015. (According to CAPA)
# BNE is on ACs "more imminent radar." http://www.traveldaily.com.au/news/air-canada-bne-progress/224297
# QF finally reaches an in-principle agreement with it's long haul pilots regarding salaries. Source: Qantas closer to 787-9 Dreamliner order after striking wage deal with pilots
# "Jetstar narrows Avalon destinations" http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/...tions/story-fnjuhovy-1227371557379
# MH to send A380 on KUL-SYD between 30th of May to 2nd of June, and 5th of June to 9th of June http://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-air...a380s-on-sydney-kuala-lumpur-route
# NZ's seasonal AKL-MCY seen to be profitable with the route now operating during summer season as well as the winter season. Source: http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press...more-flights-to-the-sunshine-coast
# EY AUH-BNE to get B789s for the first three flights with a B77W due in on the 4th of June, alternating between thereafter until more aircraft are delivered. B77Ws will operate on the 4th, 7th, 10th and 13th of June & then daily B789 ops.
# CZ to use A388 on CAN-SYD (CZ325/326) for Australian summer starting 26 October 2015. Source: http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southe...s-a380s-return-to-sydney-guangzhou
# CZ to increase PER flights from 4 to 5 per week. Source: http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southe...perth-guangzhou-boeing-787-flights
# Budget 2015 has funds allocated to open a permanent customs base at MCY.
Source: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...international-20150513-gh10or.html
# NTL announcement / speculation in regards to International services.
# Hunt for international airline to operate flights from Hobart Airport
http://www.themercury.com.au/lifesty...rport/story-fnj64obd-1226937796506
# Inaugural EY AUH-SYD A380 service operated by A6-APA touches down
# Solomon Airlines recommence services to Sydney, with the airline's sole A320-200 H4-BUS operating the first flight. Solomon Airlines will operate services once weekly (arrive Sydney Mondays and depart back for Honiara on Tuesdays)
# Silkair commence services to Cairns with the airline's 737-800 9V-MGJ operating the inaugural flight
# Newcastle-based Pelican Airlines commences RPT services, with one of the airline's J32 aircraft (VH-OTD) operating the inaugural Newcastle-Canberra flight. In the coming weeks the airline will commence services between Sydney and Newcastle as well as Sydney and Mudgee
# EY A330-200 A6-EYL operates the final Brisbane-Singapore-Abu Dhabi service.
# Interesting timeline of 787-related comments from Qantas just over the last few months:
November 2014 - Qantas Group reaffirms 787-9 is 'a fantastic option for us' but orders to come once int'l profitable
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...o-come-once-intl-profitable-393581
November 2014 - Once Qantas International is profitable we'll look at growth opportunities: Qantas CEO
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...be-moved-around-if-required-400921
December 2014 - Qantas Group confirms no new aircraft orders until further reduction of debt and cost base
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...ction-of-debt-and-cost-base-400929
January 2015 - Qantas establishes internal team, reportedly recommends firming 787-9 options in 2015
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...rming-787-9-options-in-2015-411697
February 2015 - Qantas Group says it wants 787-9s, but have to be brought in under the right conditions
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...-under-the-right-conditions-421981
March 2015 - Qantas Group sets four-month timeframe to reach new EBA with long-haul pilot group
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...-with-long-haul-pilot-group-426723
May 2015 - Qantas 'edging closer' to firming up Boeing 787-9 order
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...rming-up-boeing-787-9-order-441501
May 2015 - Qantas Group says 'unique opportunity' may be available to take advantage of new aircraft
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...e-advantage-of-new-aircraft-444691
May 2015 - Qantas reaches in-principle wage agreement for long-haul pilot group, including 787 conditions
http://centreforaviation.com/news/qa...up-including-787-conditions-449941
# QF International fleet stretched with 2 QF A380s out of service; VH-OQF (which was damaged in a maintenance incident) and VH-OQD (in MNL for maintenance) & VH-OEJ undergoing maintenance at HKG
# Australian Aviation unrelated Boeing Bleeding Cash As 787 Dreamliners Cost $200M But Sell For $116M, But Productivity Is Improving"
# Discussions surrounding economics of operating cost and capital cost. The capital cost of a 15 year old A333 minimal compared with a brand new 789
# QF93 MEL/LAX diverts to SYD 2/6 due to mechanical & then AKL due to medical
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...3/history/20150601/2350Z/YMML/KLAX

Enjoy the journey!

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting Enobar (Reply 217):
From what I hear about QF's combination of sensational pricing and timely delivery slots.. Could we even see Qantas purchasing more than they require & onselling them at a profit? Didn't Ryanair do something similar with 738s some time ago?

Did Ryanair really do that?

After all, they are the ULCC that wanted to charge (or do they charge?) people to use the lav 

[Edited 2015-06-02 17:55:00]
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):

If Boeing's legal team is worth its salt im sure they would have put something in to make this action unnatractive.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:21 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 2):
If Boeing's legal team is worth its salt im sure they would have put something in to make this action unnatractive.

It's not up to Boeing (or Airbus) to tell an airline what they can or cannot do with their aircraft. AirAsia and Lion Air have 300+ and 500+ aircraft on order respectively, and Lion Air certainly have intentions to lease these aircraft out to other carriers. If they want to put the deposits down the volume discounts and then on-sell/lease the aircraft out that's their prerogative. A sale is a sale to the manufacturers.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:21 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
Could we even see Qantas purchasing more than they require & onselling them at a profit? Didn't Ryanair do something similar with 738s some time ago?

It is highly unlikely that QF would be able to onsell new aircraft at a profit against Boeing. Both OEMs would never allow their discounted prices to be used by purchasers against the "house". I assume if QF were in the situation that they had too any aircraft ordered, their only out is a buy-back from Boeing and even then, this is likely to be at a penalty.


Quoting QF2220 (Reply 2):
If Boeing's legal team is worth its salt im sure they would have put something in to make this action unnatractive.

  
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 4):
It is highly unlikely that QF would be able to onsell new aircraft at a profit against Boeing.

It's a slightly grey area.

It happens quite frequently that an an airline buys an aircraft and then wants to realise the capital, if only on the balance sheet, so they sell them to a leasing company, with a continuing lease agreement for that aircraft - called "sale/leaseback."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ale-and-leaseback-strategy-386073/

"ANALYSIS: LCCs profit from sale and leaseback strategy

Low-cost carriers have been active users players in sale-and-leaseback transactions. The deals, under which an investment firm such as a bank or lessor will purchase an aircraft from an airline and then lease it back, removes the aircraft, and its associated debt, from the carrier's balance sheet. This allows the airline to reinvest the equity elsewhere.

Airlines typically acquire aircraft at a steeper discount from manufacturers than third parties, so when carriers sell these units, it is likely to be at a premium. Aircraft prices would have increased since the time of the orders, further contributing to the gain realised on each sale. Also influencing the profit is the size of the aircraft order and the credit of the airline.

"In some cases, these deals can be extremely profitable for the airline," says a lessor, adding: "This extra money can be very useful, particularly if the airline is just starting operations."

Carriers can either accept the gain as a cash benefit or amortise the profit for the term of the lease."


The airline usually makes a profit on the price it paid for the aircraft and the sale price to the new lessor and there's not a huge amount of blue sky between the airline continuing the lease or it going to another airline.

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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:07 am

Quoting bbbb (Reply 3):

Id put American commercial lawyers at the top of the post of commercial lawyers! I wouldnt be surprised what they can get into a contract! And lets not forget the statutes on the books in the US are far more pro business than they are here and so ways of doing business we think of normal may indeed be not prohibited in the US system.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:44 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
It's a slightly grey area.

It happens quite frequently that an an airline buys an aircraft and then wants to realise the capital, if only on the balance sheet, so they sell them to a leasing company, with a continuing lease agreement for that aircraft - called "sale/leaseback."

As you say is is a grey area. I would put sale and leaseback into a slightly different category. It is more a financing decision and would typically be represented in the balance sheet of the original purchaser as a finance lease as required by accounting standards. It is unlikely that the finance company would tolerate an asset value in excess of the purchase price and, even if they did, the excess would be recovered by the finance company over the term of the lease.

I have no doubt that Boeing and Airbus would allow a sale and leaseback but with conditions that the original purchaser remain as lessee for a set period of time. What I think they would legally baulk at is any arrangement whereby the original purchaser gives up control of the asset to another party who would have otherwise purchased directly from the OEM at a market price higher than what the original purchaser paid.
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 7):
What I think they would legally baulk at is any arrangement whereby the original purchaser gives up control of the asset to another party who would have otherwise purchased directly from the OEM at a market price higher than what the original purchaser paid.

Well, yeh, they might.

Even so, it is common currency that Ryanair has previously done it. I don't care enough about it to spend time researching it, to find proof, but it wouldn't surprise me - Michael O'Leary always has had an eye for the main chance.

It's also possible that Boeing "tightened up the rules" after he did it, but once they've been paid it's tough to think they have huge leverage.

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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:57 am

Quoting EK413 (Thread starter):

Thanks for your detailed summary
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TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:49 am

With all this recent talk of AC and QF & the 787, it got me thinking about changes we expect to see in International services to/from Australia in the next 5 years. These are my thoughts for my home airport of BNE:

-AC 3-4x weekly YVR
-MU 5-7x weekly PVG
-VN 4-5x weekly SGN
-QF/EK to launch 2nd daily direct BNE-DXB
-SQ increase SIN to 4x daily (currently 3x daily) or increase some services to 777/A350
-JQ increase DPS to daily (currently 4x weekly)
-JQ increase HNL to 3-4x weekly (currently 2-3x weekly)
-CZ increase CAN to daily year round (currently 5x weekly) with extra peak services/increase to 777
-MH likely reduce to 4-5x weekly, hopefully back to daily if successful in restructure/rebranding
-TG likely reduce to 4-5x weekly or pull out of market. If so, expect JQ to enter.
-QF/JQ introduce daily WLG & CHC services
-KE increase ICN to daily (currently 4x weekly off peak)
-VA to drop HIR/POM services, reduce DPS services to daily (currently 10x weekly)
-PR to change BNE to direct service (currently stops in DRW)
-CX to change direct services to 777/A350 due to restrictions on frequency

Maybes:

-CA to start PEK 3-4x weekly
-QF to reduce LAX to daily 789 and launch 3-4weekly BNE-DFW with 789

Thoughts? What about other airports?
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:42 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 10):
Thoughts? What about other airports?

For my home airport Melbourne, maybe AC might come back once Brisbane gets bedded in, and if they are going to expand again. We could see Cebu Pacific start a service here and maybe the Chinese airlines increasing services to here. Apart from that I don't think to much will happen down here, all the action I think will be up North in Sydney and Brisbane.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:58 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 11):
For my home airport Melbourne, maybe AC might come back once Brisbane gets bedded in, and if they are going to expand again.

IF AC start BNE it will require an amended air service agreement between Australia & Canada to allow service to MEL as well as each airline is limited to SYD & ONE other port in Australia and YVR and one other port in Canada.

Could happen but it usually takes awhile.

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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:21 pm

To throw a spanner in the works, there's an interesting article over at Bloomberg this morning:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...r-risks-spoiling-escape-from-junk?

"Qantas Airways Ltd. is on the verge of winning back the investment-grade credit status it lost in 2013. Getting there may require putting off plans to buy Dreamliner aircraft... Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce may need to make more sacrifices, including delaying purchases of Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliners a second time, National Australia Bank Ltd. says."
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:55 pm

IMV, the interest savings from a better credit rating will be more than offset by the cost to Qantas of cancelling the Dreamliner options at the current prices and having to pay a higher price when they do. Though I could be wrong!
 
JQflightie
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:05 am

Does anyone know if QF have bought the 2 F100 that Alliance have for sale to give to Network?
When is my next holiday?
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:15 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 15):

I see Austrian has 15 for sale too. Almost enough to replace the 717s......


I also saw on theqantassource.com that a 717 did a BNE-CFS-BNE rotation on 30 May (seemingly not a revenue service). What would this be for can anyone say? BNE-CFS seems too short for a scheduled service, but not really all that sure.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 16):

MEL-CFS vv. switches to B717 (from B737) from some time this month (I forget the date), so I'm guessing route proving as B717 hasn't yet been operated to CFS.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:51 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 17):

Makes sense, thanks!
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 2):
If Boeing's legal team is worth its salt im sure they would have put something in to make this action unnatractive.
Quoting QF2220 (Reply 6):
Id put American commercial lawyers at the top of the post of commercial lawyers! I wouldnt be surprised what they can get into a contract! And lets not forget the statutes on the books in the US are far more pro business than they are here and so ways of doing business we think of normal may indeed be not prohibited in the US system.

Regardless, it's either in the contract already or not.

QF and Boeing would both be well aware of the contract and what both parties can and can't do.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:10 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 19):

Agreed.

I was thinking about this overnight and a very easy, legal way of restricting a purchaser's ability to do this is to include a clause in the contract to the effect that if the puchaser is going to sell the airframe, that the manufacturer has first right of refusal, ie the purchaser has to first offer it to the manufacturer. This is i think pretty common in contracting.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 20):
I was thinking about this overnight and a very easy, legal way of restricting a purchaser's ability to do this is to include a clause in the contract to the effect that if the puchaser is going to sell the airframe, that the manufacturer has first right of refusal, ie the purchaser has to first offer it to the manufacturer. This is i think pretty common in contracting.

  

Good idea.

Very fair IMHO for both the airline and manufacturer as it gives them both options without too much of a restriction.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:01 am

ACCC green lights extension VA/DL trans pacific alliance

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...alia-delta-trans-pacific-alliance/
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Enobar
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:21 am

Thanks for your responses guys. I figured there would be a pretty good (obvious maybe?) reason that Qantas didn't take and flip the birds for a profit.

Its also really nice to ask a question which might have a fairly obvious answer to some and not have anyone jump all over it and be condescending as can often happen. Full marks for civility!  
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:36 am

"in the next 5 years. These are my thoughts for my home airport of BNE:

-AC 3-4x weekly YVR.. agreee
-MU 5-7x weekly PVG... if not MU, then another carrier
-VN 4-5x weekly SGN... I think the VN ship has sailed + Vietnamese diaspora in BEN is small compared to SYD7MEL
-QF/EK to launch 2nd daily direct BNE-DXB... only if the via SIN service is rerouted to nonstop.
-SQ increase SIN to 4x daily (currently 3x daily) or increase some services to 777/A350... A350 yes, 777 no way- remember BNE was the first port to get the A330's when they arrived... the 777 dynamics on BNE-SIN are terrible.
-JQ increase DPS to daily (currently 4x weekly)... daily too much in low season
-JQ increase HNL to 3-4x weekly (currently 2-3x weekly)... will be at the expense of HA
-CZ increase CAN to daily year round (currently 5x weekly) with extra peak services/increase to 777
-MH likely reduce to 4-5x weekly, hopefully back to daily if successful in restructure/rebranding... agree or MH will exit the market.
-TG likely reduce to 4-5x weekly or pull out of market. If so, expect JQ to enter. Agree but JQ to HKT instead of BKK
-QF/JQ introduce daily WLG & CHC services... I think they would have done it by now.
-KE increase ICN to daily (currently 4x weekly off peak). No way- tried before and failed + KE now has QF competition to NRT affecting KE connecting pax... maybe daily only in DEC/JAN peak season.

-VA to drop HIR/POM services, reduce DPS services to daily (currently 10x weekly).
I often wonder if these services are more to do with aircraft utilisation- especially DPS. And BNE-DPS is the biggest loss maker of the bunch plus the route is weight restricted. I don't think HIR/POM will go, but I think frequency will be reduced once JB gets grilled on now needing to produce profits.

-PR to change BNE to direct service (currently stops in DRW)... only if suitable aircraft- none at present (A330 too big)
-CX to change direct services to 777/A350 due to restrictions on frequency... agree

Maybes:
-CA to start PEK 3-4x weekly... PVG would happen first
-QF to reduce LAX to daily 789 and launch 3-4weekly BNE-DFW with 789... DFW never
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:03 am

Quoting bbbb (Reply 13):
"Qantas Airways Ltd. is on the verge of winning back the investment-grade credit status it lost in 2013. Getting there may require putting off plans to buy Dreamliner aircraft... Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce may need to make more sacrifices, including delaying purchases of Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliners a second time, National Australia Bank Ltd. says."

You know what they say about analysts, "if you can't do it, become an analyst of it".

On a serious note, although QF returning to investment grade is desirable I really don't see it as an essential part of the 787 order. You would presume that if QF does go ahead and order the 787 that they would have an idea about the IRR / ROIC etc of this and that justifies and outweighs the incremental borrowing cost that QF might have by not having an investment grade credit rating. So if by ordering the 787 it pushes QF's return to investment grade back a bit, I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing and, in a lot of respects, it's now vital that QF starts to line up long term firm orders to replacing the remaining 744's and for incremental expansion of its network as opportunities arise.
 
Bluebird191
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:33 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 10):
KE increase ICN to daily

The main issue with KE's flight is the somewhat lack of connection possibilities on the ICN end ex BNE - although the ICN-BNE leg allows for connections onto it, the daylight flight BNE-ICN can prove problematic, unless either starting in Seoul or naking a short connecting flight to Japan or somewhere where a late arrival time doesn't matter a great deal. Not to mention the rather long connection times on most of their flights to Europe and North America. It all comes down to what pax KE is chasing and a somewhat lack of advertising, and who knows what is happening there.........
 
AirNiugini
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:40 am

Evening ladies and Gents.  

Just wondering how QF are going with their on-time performance at LHR these days?

QF9 was about two hours delayed last night (still about 40 minutes late into LHR at the moment), and it looks like QF9 is going to be 1 hour and 45 minutes late tonight (QF10 due to land in MEL at 2230 which is a about an hour and a half late).

Since the news reports that were discussed on here recently about possible fines and loss of slots at LHR for QF, I am wondering if there are been any change in their on-time performance out of LHR? Would be interesting to see.

Must be hard at the moment with a couple A380's out of action.

Link to the related news report below.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...internal-memo-20150416-1mmciq.html
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:30 am

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 27):
Just wondering how QF are going with their on-time performance at LHR these days?


You can check times on flightaware for the past 3 months. You may need to register to view.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight_event_history.rvt?ident=QFA9

Since the 1st of May till today (35 days) QF has been late arriving into LHR 20 of the 35 days with 9 of those 20 being later than 30 minutes.

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 27):
QF9 was about two hours delayed last night (still about 40 minutes late into LHR at the moment), and it looks like QF9 is going to be 1 hour and 45 minutes late tonight (QF10 due to land in MEL at 2230 which is a about an hour and a half late).

The inbound QF10 flight from yesterday spent close to 4 and half hours on the ground in DXB instead of the usual 2 hrs 10 mins.

QF10 arriving tonight took off from LHR 1 hr and 50 minutes late.

Both of these could be more airport congestion than QF fault. Can anyone clarify this?

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 27):
Must be hard at the moment with a couple A380's out of action.

Yes they have also had 3 medical diversions on A380's in the past 2 weeks which wouldn't of helped either.

20/5 QF11 LAX-SYD diverted to HNL
28/5 QF10 DXB-MEL diverted to SIN
2/6 QF93 MEL-LAX diverted to SYD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:38 am

Quoting Enobar (Reply 23):

We dont seem to bite as much in the Aus thread   !

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 27):
Must be hard at the moment with a couple A380's out of action.

I bet they are learning so much about how to use the fleet to its best.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 27):
Since the news reports that were discussed on here recently about possible fines and loss of slots at LHR for QF, I am wondering if there are been any change in their on-time performance out of LHR? Would be interesting to see.

QF789 already pointed out that OTP still isn't great, but to add a bit there was never an issue of actually losing the slots at LHR. My memory is a bit fuzzy now, but IIRC there was also never a risk of fines either - it was just a consultation with LHR about how OTP could be improved.

Quoting qf789 (Reply 28):
Both of these could be more airport congestion than QF fault. Can anyone clarify this?

To continue on from the above, Gareth Evans did pin the poor LHR OTP on ATC congestion in DXB. There's apparently extra transit time added at DXB during the next scheduling period, and the LHR slots have also been tweaked so there should be a bit more slack once that takes effect.

[Edited 2015-06-04 05:22:49]
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:30 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 9):

Your welcome  
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 25):
it's now vital that QF starts to line up long term firm orders to replacing the remaining 744's and for incremental expansion of its network as opportunities arise.

I hope so too, they will be minus 1 B744 shortly with VH-OJI heading into retirement.

Quoting qf789 (Reply 28):
2/6 QF93 MEL-LAX diverted to SYD

& 2/6 QF93 MEL-LAX diverted to AKL after departing SYD due to a medical.

EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:24 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 12):
IF AC start BNE it will require an amended air service agreement between Australia & Canada to allow service to MEL as well as each airline is limited to SYD & ONE other port in Australia and YVR and one other port in Canada.

Could happen but it usually takes awhile.

Gemuser

Tell me my friend, are these agreements put in place to protect that's country's national carrier? For example the Government says to AC "we will give you Sydney and one other city of your choice in Australia and that's all " I would have thought that would not worry QF all that much as they don't seem to offer as many international destinations from the other main land capitals except for Sydney, And Vancouver is only seasonal anyway from Sydney. Is that the same for Canada aswell, are they just protecting their national carrier?
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 32):
Is that the same for Canada aswell, are they just protecting their national carrier?

I'd say so considering EK / EY have limited rights resulting in the 2 having to sharing capacity on the DXB-YYZ / AUH-YYZ routes.

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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 32):

Aviation bilateral agreements are generally incredibly archaic, and the older agreements generally do not reflect market realities. They are generally not so much about protectionism however as much as broader trade. Air Canada is famous for screaming blue murder if they don't get their own way, and the Canadian government give their voice far more weight than it deserves, but in this case that would have nothing to do with it. Instead it was probably never perceived that anyone would ever need to fly to more than two destinations, so it seemed like a really generous traffic allocation. That's what I mean about them being archaic. Amending our air service agreement with Canada should be fairly easy but no doubt it will get drawn out diplomatically as we would demand sonwthin from them in return for letting their airlines expand. That could be anything, and probably won't be aviation related.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 34):
Aviation bilateral agreements are generally incredibly archaic, and the older agreements generally do not reflect market realities

Just to add a bit. The Australia Canada agreement is OLD, dating back to the 1940s. It allowed for each country to designate one airline to operate services between SYD and YVR via SFO, HNL & NAN (with traffic rights) and one other port in each country, if desired! Interestingly the Australian airline designated to operate the service was NOT Qantas but BCPA (British Commonwealth Pacific Airlines), who were also Australia's designated operator to the USA. BCPA went bust in the early 1950s and QF took over.

It's a fairly typical agreement of the time. These things are very difficult to research even when the original agreements are online as they can be amended in several ways including amending the original agreement but more commonly by the exchange of diplomatic notes which are almost impossible to track and to ensure you have found all of them.

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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:10 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 35):

Just to add a bit. The Australia Canada agreement is OLD, dating back to the 1940s. It allowed for each country to designate one airline to operate services between SYD and YVR via SFO, HNL & NAN (with traffic rights) and one other port in each country, if desired! Interestingly the Australian airline designated to operate the service was NOT Qantas but BCPA (British Commonwealth Pacific Airlines), who were also Australia's designated operator to the USA. BCPA went bust in the early 1950s and QF took over.

To add to this further, the most recent attempt to liberalise the Air Traffic Agreement actually came from the Canadian side back in the late 90's / early 00's when AC wanted to do YYZ - LAX - SYD. Given the then QF / UA duopoly on the Pacific QF lobbied hard for this to be rejected and, thus, Australia was the one who said no. The direct YVR service from AC now makes the need for a stopover less and the DL / VA flights make the Pacific more competitive now but it would be interesting to see if Australia and Canada could actually do a deal if AC wanted a 3rd city. I'd say Australia would want LAX included as a stopover point which would probably make agreement difficult to reach.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:30 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 31):
& 2/6 QF93 MEL-LAX diverted to AKL after departing SYD due to a medical.

Where'd you see that???

(Also the diversion to SYD was mechanical, not medical).
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 37):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 31):& 2/6 QF93 MEL-LAX diverted to AKL after departing SYD due to a medical.
Where'd you see that???

(Also the diversion to SYD was mechanical, not medical).

Discussed in previous thread. QF93 first diverted to SYD due to mechanical then diverted to AKL due to a medical on the same flight
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 38):

I ask because Qantas.com, flightaware and FR24 all show the flight (searching on both QF93 and VH-OQI) as operating SYD-LAX nonstop.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 38):
Discussed in previous thread. QF93 first diverted to SYD due to mechanical then diverted to AKL due to a medical on the same flight

I remember reading somewhere it got even more complicated as the crew were out of hours. Whether this was because of the SYD stop, with new crew from SYD or the AKL stop, I am unsure
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:45 am

From the 2nd of July CZ will remove first class from BNE services. The current 3 class A332 will be replaced with a 2 class A333.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southe...lass-on-brisbane-guangzhou-flights
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:04 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 10):
-VA to drop HIR/POM services, reduce DPS services to daily (currently 10x weekly)

Funny you mention that, from 22 June 2015 Virgin Australia will increase services on Brisbane - Honiara from 2x to 3x weekly with the introduction of a new Monday service. Flights will continue to be operated by 737-800 aircraft.

In other news JetGo today announced that it will commence flights from Brisbane to Dubbo from 20 July 2015 using its ERJ-135 aircraft. Flights will operate 3x weekly on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. This will be JetGo's second destination from Brisbane, with the airline already operating flights to Tamworth.

Source - ABC Western Plains
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 36):
I'd say Australia would want LAX included as a stopover point which would probably make agreement difficult to reach.

Id almost say if AC wants LAX through rights and QF wants LAX through rights, it might actually happen. AC only flies YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL. AA from DFW and LAX flies the same plus YEG. With some additional feed, AA might be able to put some more direct flights on more easily than AC could, which would help QF a bit more.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 43):
Id almost say if AC wants LAX through rights and QF wants LAX through rights, it might actually happen. AC only flies YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL. AA from DFW and LAX flies the same plus YEG. With some additional feed, AA might be able to put some more direct flights on more easily than AC could, which would help QF a bit more.

At this stage I think it would be unlikely that AC would seek LAX through rights given they seem happy with the results of the YVR direct services. (Not to mention that it gives them a significant advantage over connecting in the US and having to deal with the TSA etc which is the principal disadvantage of the current AA / QF arrangement) I also doubt AC would be wanting to actually use LAX - Australia rights given their relationship with UA. So to me, it doesn't make sense for Canada to trade LAX through rights for extra Australian cities.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:06 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 44):

Yeah fair points. YVR has more one stop destinations on AC than LAX
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 44):
I also doubt AC would be wanting to actually use LAX - Australia rights given their relationship with UA.

AC wanted the SYD-LAX service before VA and DL started so now the route isn't so attractive + SYD-YVR nonstop has performed quite well for them.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 42):
Funny you mention that, from 22 June 2015 Virgin Australia will increase services on Brisbane - Honiara from 2x to 3x weekly with the introduction of a new Monday service. Flights will continue to be operated by 737-800 aircraft.

Weren't they always 3x/week? VA has a nasty habit of quietly reducing services, then issues press releases to say service is expanding while conveniently forgetting to mention the increase had been previously operated.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:58 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 44):
significant advantage over connecting in the US and having to deal with the TSA etc which is the principal disadvantage of the current AA / QF arrangement

I wouldn't say that TSA is the 'principal' disadvantage of connecting through the USA. While I detest the entire organisation and everyone who works there, it is just airport security, no different to anywhere else in the world. Having to go through US customs and immigration is a much bigger factor IMHO.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:00 am

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 46):
Weren't they always 3x/week? VA has a nasty habit of quietly reducing services, then issues press releases to say service is expanding while conveniently forgetting to mention the increase had been previously operated.

No, this is a genuine increase in services. Flights to Honiara were launched in December 2008 and have operated 2x weekly on Tuesdays and Thursdays since 2008.

I'm interested in your statement about VA reducing services, then upping then under the guise of a service expansion? What routes exactly are you talking about?
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 122

Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:11 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 40):
I remember reading somewhere it got even more complicated as the crew were out of hours. Whether this was because of the SYD stop, with new crew from SYD or the AKL stop, I am unsure

Yes, but both FR24 and Flightaware show the flight flew SYD-LAX non-stop (i.e no AKL diversion), so i'm not sure where EK413 got that from?
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