Delta Has Plans For BOS.

tinpusher007 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:33 pm

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/06/0...travel-delta-has-plans-for-boston/

According to this, DL is taking another look at expanding in BOS; kind of ironic since Southwest now operates out of Terminal A which they once had to themselves. Read and discuss. My apologies if this has been discussed already.

AirFrance744 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:54 pm

I kind of expected this as DL has listed BOS as a hub for some time now. If they wanted it to be a true hub, they would have to expand their ops at BOS, especially since they have the smallest market share of the US3. I think BOS may see a similar expansion to SEA.

chrisnh · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:59 pm

The time to do this was many years ago when JetBlue was but an upstart with no critical mass and no brand equity. Now, JetBlue connects most every worthwhile dot on the map from Boston on the domestic side. And it is against THIS competitive landscape that Delta (and perhaps AA too) wants to 'do something?'

Now if they want to flood BOS with 757s to hop across to a bunch of secondary European cities, fine. But let's see how much room there is at E with all the gates taken by newcomers. After all, the original plan was for DL to launch and retrieve international flights from their own terminal...a scenario that didn't happen then and probably won't now.

MAH4546 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:04 pm

That author sure does take a lot of liberty in drawing conclusions over the location of an annual meeting.

ASA · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:12 pm

Location wise, a SEA like expansion may sound interesting here at BOS ... but I have to say, "I'll believe it, when I see it". This sounds like too little, too late. As the above posters say already ... the time for this seems to have passed a while ago. Delta was a big part of the Terminal A development ... but they have been reducing service for a while, and just gave up a bunch of A gates. Meanwhile, B6 has grown strong roots ... and WN came in, established quite a bit of service, and have a bunch of A gates.

tomaheath · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:17 pm

Does anyone have a list of destinations at there peak verse what they have now?

b777900 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:19 pm

DL moved out of A where are they now?

STT757 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Quoting b777900 (Reply 6):
DL moved out of A where are they now?

They're still in A, WN moved to A to the former CO / UA gates.

adamh8297 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:28 pm

I think the plans already are in place and its nothing special: launch BOS-SEA and BOS-MKE while keeping the gun loaded with hub frequencies, a Florida flight or two, BOS-AUA, and maybe a couple other routes (seasonal SJU, BUF, seasonal SAV, MSY, BWI, MDW), in case BOS-MSP/ATL/CVG/SLC is launched by B6 or even WN in the non-ATL destinations .

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):

That author sure does take a lot of liberty in drawing conclusions over the location of an annual meeting.

He's definitely more of a travel writer and not an airline industry person. He wrote an article on WN going international in the face of what is going at Logan with international expansion.

ramprat74 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:31 pm

Move DL where AA and UA are now and move UA to the A satellite.

Abeam79 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:35 pm

Only way delta can really make inroads in Boston akin to what JetBlue has done, is by possibly buying JetBlue. JetBlue hasn't even finished growing Boston.

ridgid727 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting AirFrance744 (Reply 1):
I think BOS may see a similar expansion to SEA.

you mean carry on with B6 as though you're their best friend, and all the while giving them a prostate exam? kinda like they did over at AS?

northwestEWR · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 10):
Only way delta can really make inroads in Boston akin to what JetBlue has done, is by possibly buying JetBlue. JetBlue hasn't even finished growing Boston.

They'd buy Alaska in a hostile takeover before they'd buy JetBlue. Although boy would JFK be a megafortress.

Polot · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:52 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 9):

UA just consolidated to where they are now a year ago. They are not going to be willing to move. I doubt you would see Massport go far out of their way to help DL, especially with B6 now established. The last time they did that they had to deal with a bankrupt carrier defaulting on their bond payments due on A.

[Edited 2015-06-02 16:54:50]

ridgid727 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:53 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 12):
They'd buy Alaska in a hostile takeove

That would be stopped dead in its tracks by the Feds.

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:58 pm

No reason Delta would want a 757 base to Europe, JFK the same distance and offers more o&d and more connection power, same bad weather from the same storms. No reason to lower your own JFK hub to Europe, i see no advantage and BOS has tons of international service its well served without a legacy hub.

I bet you DL is just interested in what AA also seems to be o&d spots where theres money still on the table, i doubt its anything like SEA is being considered

ROCDLFAN · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):

A destination like BUF would not be seasonal, far too much business traffic. I honestly could see a major plan of action with DL coming into territory with the current US/AA regional markets from BOS. If I'm correct, the only markets served as express from BOS on the US side are BUF, SYR, ROC, MDT, and PIT. Considering DL Has a sizable operation in both BUF ans ROC, I could see that as a possibility. If they were to come into ROC, guarantee they would have a monopoly within 6 months of starting the route as I don't see US/AA wanting to stick around.

As far as domestic expansion comparable to SEA? Id say BUF, ROC, PIT, MSY, PHL, SAV, and CHS. Specifically those because of the sizable operation DL has at each station.

adamh8297 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 16):
A destination like BUF would not be seasonal

I only mentioned SAV and SJU as being seasonal - BUF would have to be year round for sure.

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 16):
CHS.

Served seasonally already (sat only I believe)

jetblue1965 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:33 am

If anyone will make a play for BOS it will be AA, which is roughly 23-25% seats post merger, only slightly behind JetBlue.

Maybe they're adding back DCA-BOS shuttle service at most. Beyond that, no idea why they want to jump in here when they haven't solved the SEA quagmire

Thomaas · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:47 am

DL would have a hard time competing against JetBlue, which is well loved by consumers because they offer one of the best Y products in the US. DL's RJs won't help there.

MIflyer12 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 19):
DL would have a hard time competing against JetBlue, which is well loved by consumers because they offer one of the best Y products in the US. DL's RJs won't help there.

B6 has a ~30% domestic share at BOS. That's hardly dominant. AS/QX has a 52% at SEA, for example. PANYNJ data show B6 at #4 in NYC. Respectable, but not immune to competition.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/MAR2015_REG.pdf

adamh8297 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 20):
B6 has a ~30% domestic share at BOS

and very few domestic city-pairs (taking all metro airports on both ends into consideration) completely to themselves.

BOS-SJU
BOS-STT (seasonal)
BOS-SRQ (seasonal)
BOS-MSY
BOS-SAV
BOS-SMF

VAM8789 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:56 am

For not being a true hub airport, BOS sure does have a solid variety of airlines and non-stop flights all over North America, plus Europe and recently Asia. Passenger numbers continue to rise year after year, the airport has been on fire over the last 2 and a half year.

Off the top of my head, there are very few major cities in the U.S. that BOS does not have flights to - SDF, SAT and MEM.

LAXtoATL · Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):

That author sure does take a lot of liberty in drawing conclusions over the location of an annual meeting.

I wouldn't read too much into the location of the meeting. They certainly aren't going to establish a hub in BOS. But there of course are strategic considerations to where they hold the meeting. I can confirm they wanted to hold the meeting in SEA, but SEA couldn't accommodate 1,200 (not the 500 mentioned by the author). I would say it is safe to say that next to SEA, BOS will probably see the most growth over the next couple years. But nothing drastic.

USAirALB · Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:57 am

DL should have jumped on BOS-Asia before other carriers did. I always envisioned them flying BOS-NRT. Maybe they could launch BOS-ICN if relations with KE improve.

I could see DL trying BOS-GRU, then again it is my belief that New England's Lusophone community has greater ties to Portugal than to Brasil

IMHO, they need to make themselves a strong competitor on the transcontinental routings from BOS. I could see them trying key business and O/D markets, maybe DFW/IAH/ORD/CLT/DEN/MSY, and possibly more flights within the Northeast (ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR) and to Atlantic Canada, but that's it.

[Edited 2015-06-02 21:00:25]

deltal1011man · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:02 am

Quoting tinpusher007 (Thread starter):

Some expansion will come, LAX/SEA will continue to be the focus point however.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):

They're still in A, WN moved to A to the former CO / UA gates.

FWIW WN is on the satellite
Delta took the old CO gates and is opening the second SkyClub (back) open this month I think.

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 23):
. I would say it is safe to say that next to SEA, BOS will probably see the most growth over the next couple years. But nothing drastic.

I would say LAX/SEA/BOS will all keep seeing expansion, but i do think BOS would at best peak at 150 so flights a day (about double the current)

I could see some places like SYR/ROC/ALB and other north eastern markets. Maybe some big business markets ala SFO.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 24):

I could see DL trying BOS-GRU, then again it is my belief that New England's Lusophone community has greater ties to Portugal than to Brasil.

won't happen. Other fish to fry for Brazil

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 24):

DL should have jumped on BOS-Asia before other carriers did. I always envisioned them flying BOS-NRT. Maybe they could launch BOS-ICN if relations with KE improve.

Delta doesn't have the right plane for BOS-Asia.

Sightseer · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 25):
i do think BOS would at best peak at 150 so flights a day (about double the current)

Agreed, although even 150 would surprise me with JFK and LGA so close by.

Also, how many gates is WN using on A now? And are A9-A12 going to be reopened? I would think those are the main limiting physical factors in any expansion.

mayor · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):
That author sure does take a lot of liberty in drawing conclusions over the location of an annual meeting.

It's not THE "annual meeting", it's a meeting.

deltal1011man · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 26):

Agreed, although even 150 would surprise me with JFK and LGA so close by.

thats why i said at best. I honestly figure a few RJs running around to places in the Northeast, a few east coast cities and maybe SFO. Thats pretty much the best i can see.

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 26):

Also, how many gates is WN using on A now? And are A9-A12 going to be reopened? I would think those are the main limiting physical factors in any expansion.

The RJ gates (which i think are 9-12) will be or are re-opened.

I can't remember, its 4ish. I think

jfklganyc · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:23 pm

In my opinion, it is common sense

DL has no plans for BOS

They have a huge hub down the road

And they already have one fledgling hub in SEA.

DL will continue to do what it does it BOS: hubs, targeted O and D, some international to partner hubs

commavia · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:29 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 2):
The time to do this was many years ago when JetBlue was but an upstart with no critical mass and no brand equity. Now, JetBlue connects most every worthwhile dot on the map from Boston on the domestic side.

At this point, I don't see much realistic prospect for substantial growth at BOS by either Delta or AA. Sure, both may be adding corporate sales presence in the area and both could plausibly make some targeted, surgical adds to bolster their presence in select nonstop markets where they have a particular area of strength (i.e., Delta's new SEA flight, or AA possibly to RDU, etc.) but in general, I think the BOS market is now quite well served by JetBlue's large operation plus the dense coverage already provided by AA, Delta, Southwest and United.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
DL will continue to do what it does it BOS: hubs, targeted O and D, some international to partner hubs

STT757 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:30 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 26):
Also, how many gates is WN using on A now?

A-18, A-19, A-20, A-21, A-22

airbazar · Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:24 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 9):
Move DL where AA and UA are now and move UA to the A satellite.

Why? DL owns terminal A.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
No reason Delta would want a 757 base to Europe, JFK the same distance and offers more o&d and more connection power, same bad weather from the same storms

Other than the fact that JFK is slot restricted and BOS isn't. There's a reason why B6 has developed a huge presence at BOS, just "up the road" from JFK.

luv2fly · Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:44 pm

Is BOS replacing the add subtract service that LAX use to be subjected to.

S75752 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:54 pm

With MCO getting GRU, I sense BOS-GRU in the future. Seems to be one of the largest missing ethnic-tie links, dunno about business.

VAM8789 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 34):
With MCO getting GRU, I sense BOS-GRU in the future. Seems to be one of the largest missing ethnic-tie links, dunno about business.

A non-stop flight to South America is the only thing missing from BOS's portfolio.

MCO is closer to GRU and I am sure the local market is bigger, so that may not mean BOS is in line to get a flight soon based on the fact that MCO has them.

ec99 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
In my opinion, it is common sense

DL has no plans for BOS

They have a huge hub down the road

On the densley populated East Coast, the "just down the road" logic doesnt work. AA has three hubs "just down the road" from each other (DCA, PHL, JFK).

I don't know what Delta will do but the proximity to JFK will not dictate their plan just like the proximity to PHL and DCA doesnt constrain AAs growth in JFK or vice versa.

richierich · Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:51 pm

So, when will JetBlue start BOS-ATL and BOS-MSP?

DL is big and they can do anything they want but pushing resources to BOS to compete with WN and B6 will probably not net them any money, at least in the short to medium term. B6 is very well established and besides some thin European routes, I'm not sure what they can offer from BOS.

luv2fly · Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:58 pm

Funny thing is NW use to have several transatlantic destinations out of BOS before moving them to DTW.

ont 737 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:33 pm

B6’s “dominance” BOS is grossly over exaggerated. Looking in DIIO, they have a 28.3% O&D share and 22.5% revenue share. So, just over a ¼ passenger share no average fare premium. In any business market of sigificance, B6 is 2nd-3rd place (at best).

If you remove leisure regions like Florida and Caribbean their numbers drop to 21.4% passenger share and 15.3% revenue share.

Let’s not confuse dominating a market with flying a lot of leisure traffic. Jetblue is dominant to Florida/Caribbean with 58.4% passenger share.

BOS would be a much easier target for DL than SEA.

tlecam · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:19 pm

Quoting tinpusher007 (Thread starter):
kind of ironic since Southwest now operates out of Terminal A which they once had to themselves.

Quoting ASA (Reply 4):
but they have been reducing service for a while, and just gave up a bunch of A gates

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 26):
Also, how many gates is WN using on A now? And are A9-A12 going to be reopened? I would think those are the main limiting physical factors in any expansion.

My understanding is that the SWA presence in the A satellites is temporary (although long temrporary - a couple of years).

They didn't really give up gates - they traded Satellite gates for main terminal gates. I think they're net down 1, possibly two gates in the re-shuffle.

They now use all the gates in the main terminal, gates 1-11 as well as gates A13-17 and sometimes A18.

I don't think Boston will ever be a true hub, but Delta has been rumored to have growth plans (again) for quite awhile now.

I would not be surprised to see them launch SFO, which with the recently announced SEA service, will give them service to the three major cities on the west coast. I could also see them expand some international service. I wouldn't be surprised to see them up around 125-150 flights. Calling that a "hub" is sensationalism to me.

airbazar · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:51 pm

Quoting Reply 39):

BOS would be a much easier target for DL than SEA.

I strongly believe that B6 is positioning itself to start TATL service from BOS but that is still a couple of years away, at least. DL would be smart to get a head start. With a the latest news that some airports in Europe may be getting CBP pre-clearance, that possibility of expanding TATL from BOS without the gate restrictions of terminal E is looking better than ever.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 2):
But let's see how much room there is at E with all the gates taken by newcomers.

The situation in terminal E may actually improve, thanks to this:
http://www.dhs.gov/news/2015/05/29/d...xpand-preclearance-10-new-airports

VAM8789 · Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:00 pm

I don't buy the argument that DL cannot, or should not expand BOS because of what they have at JFK. By that logic none of the big US carriers should expand BOS as UA, DL and AA all have strong stations between JFK/LGA/EWR.

BOS serves a catchment area of over 6 million people, the economy in the Boston area is doing pretty well, so why not expand the network a little? I am not suggesting turn BOS into a very large operation near the scale of some of their true hubs. But what's the problem with making some modest expansion?

33lspotter · Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:16 pm

As a journalist by trade, I quickly got the impression that this was more of a speculative blog entry by the fact that it had zero quotes from anyone. It's certainly commonplace to draw conclusions from quotes—no matter how ludicrous the conclusion may be, but the fact that there was no quotes to accompany the analysis makes it a little fishy.

Also, surprised that the incorrect capitalization of "the Patriots" made it by the copy team. Wow!

Sightseer · Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 42):

Thats a fair assessment. think it's quite possible that DL will expand in BOS, but any additions will likely be more focused on O&D so as not to compete with the more expansive connecting options in NYC. Given the O&D emphasis, BOS' catchment area, DL' gate & network footprint there, and the relative size of AA and B6, I could see them getting to 125 flights if they wanted to. Of course, that would change if any of the factors above were to change also.

chrisnh · Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 42):
BOS serves a catchment area of over 6 million people, the economy in the Boston area is doing pretty well

I'd say it's doing really well, and represents the kind of well-heeled diversity that airlines need. In other words, BOS is not a 'one-horse-town.' Also, sadly, the demise of my hometown airport MHT means good things for BOS. My business travel (aside from quick trips to BWI or MDW on WN) is now exclusively via Logan. The bus with free wi-fi is a great link, which I use often.

nikeherc · Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:33 pm

Of course Delta has plans for Boston. In fact, I would bet that they have plans for every place they fly and some they don't currently serve. It should, however, be remembered that continuing the status quo is also a plan.

ScottB · Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 28):
The RJ gates (which i think are 9-12) will be or are re-opened.

I can't remember, its 4ish. I think

Three gates with passenger loading bridges -- A9-A11.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 24):
I could see DL trying BOS-GRU, then again it is my belief that New England's Lusophone community has greater ties to Portugal than to Brasil

More to the Azores & Cape Verde than Portugal or Brazil.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 24):
IMHO, they need to make themselves a strong competitor on the transcontinental routings from BOS. I could see them trying key business and O/D markets, maybe DFW/IAH/ORD/CLT/DEN/MSY, and possibly more flights within the Northeast (ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR) and to Atlantic Canada, but that's it.

I wouldn't call MSY a key business market from BOS. BOS-DFW/IAH are too crowded at present. What I could see them doing is adding key non-hub business markets within ~1000 miles with large RJ's -- so things like BUF, CLE, STL, PIT, BNA, ORF, etc.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 18):
Maybe they're adding back DCA-BOS shuttle service at most.

Nah. They don't have the slots to do it.

RL757PVD · Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:31 pm

Since jetblue didnt have the balls and or aircraft to do it, i'd love to see DL attack the WN non traditional (aka non-B6) points from BOS.

A beef up or new service to: CMH, IND, STL, MCI, CHI, BNA would be a nice retaliation for the DAL fiasco and cause WN to bleed more than they already are on many of these.

northwestEWR · Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:40 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 48):

Since jetblue didnt have the balls and or aircraft to do it, i'd love to see DL attack the WN non traditional (aka non-B6) points from BOS.

A beef up or new service to: CMH, IND, STL, MCI, CHI, BNA would be a nice retaliation for the DAL fiasco and cause WN to bleed more than they already are on many of these.

It's probably not worth it for Delta, especially if it's not worth it for B6 and their "hub".

Delta's time to get WN for DAL will come.

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