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LAXintl
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LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:41 am

Its reported that Lufthansa citing economic conditions in Russia, it will suspend service to 3 Russian destinations.

Moscow Vnukovo ends August 31st
Samara ends September 6th
Nizhny Novgorod ends September 7th

http://lufthansaflyer.boardingarea.c...e-to-certain-russian-destinations/

=

VKO surprises me as it was to be a Star Alliance focus airport as members shift over from DME. Guess that idea has passed for LH.
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conaly
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:32 am

Too bad, I'd prefer VKO any time over DME and even much more over SVO. Much less distance to the city center and much less crowded airport.

4U is still flying to VKO, but LX, OS and LH (will) only serve DME and I did not hear anything about changing the airport in the future.
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mercure1
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:34 pm

Suppose no surprise with all the negative news from Russia including currency issues. Though I always though LH and its airlines had a special inside track and advantage with its long history on Russian services.

On VKO never been there but have heard good things about it. I do recall back in 2012-13 or so Star was indeed talking about making the airport its Moscow focus instead of DME, but I dont know what happened. Maybe did not reach agreement with airport operator??
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:43 pm

Just to clarify, LH is not leaving the Moscow market. They will continue serving DME from both FRA and MUC.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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mercure1
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:08 pm

Will Germanwings still keep VKO?

They have both TXL and CGN services
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bjorn14
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:24 pm

It does surprise me they are pulling out of VKO. IIRC, it is the cheapest MOW airport to operate out of and saves about 20 mins of flying time. I suppose DME is a little more prestigous.
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eielef
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 5):
It does surprise me they are pulling out of VKO. IIRC, it is the cheapest MOW airport to operate out of and saves about 20 mins of flying time. I suppose DME is a little more prestigous.

Not only that. Is peoples favourite, is 30km closer to the city, it has always empty gates, migration is quick.... I really like VKO, specially as I live just 3 mins away from Yugo-Zapadnaya Metro Station, where busses leave every 5 minutes to VKO, a trip that takes never longer than 20 mins.

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TWA772LR
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:40 pm

So i guess they aren't going to expand in Russia any time soon then.
I want them to restart SVX so I can go see my friend.
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smbukas
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:58 pm

GOJ and KUF definitely was performing so poor, these routes were not covering even Direct Operating Costs (read = fuel, crew variable salaries, air navigation, landing charges, service costs). As they used aircrafts night slots, not much aircraft cost or opportunity cost to be counted.

Three years ago I was flying on Lufthansa FRA-SVX. We were 22 passengers on A319. LH closed Ekaterinburg ±2 years ago. Was similar red-eye schedule as KUF and GOJ.

When it comes to DME vs VKO, I think, LH made a decision they need only one airport in MOW, so they chose DME. Overall, this is a capacity reduction to MOW.

Russia international travel is really doing bad and Russia is really MOW centric. It is very difficult to get business for international airlines at other Russian airports (except maybe LED).

Czech Airlines and Finnair is also reducing flying to secondary Russian airports. BT cut capacity both to MOW and LED. EasyJet cut also LGW-DME and MAN-DME.
 
WorldspotterPL
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting smbukas (Reply 8):
GOJ and KUF definitely was performing so poor, these routes were not covering even Direct Operating Costs (read = fuel, crew variable salaries, air navigation, landing charges, service costs). As they used aircrafts night slots, not much aircraft cost or opportunity cost to be counted.

So the closures of these Russian routes result in no aircraft freed up for other destinations?
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:30 am

Quoting WorldspotterPL (Reply 9):
So the closures of these Russian routes result in no aircraft freed up for other destinations?

Depends - on regular day-light schedules likely not, on red-eyes yes. The latter could be (e.g.) night flights to the Canary Islands, Egypt or other tourist destinations, which would fit into Lufthansa´s pattern to increase the presence in these markets.

Interesting enough the yields must have been so poor, that they didn´t put them together as triangle flights. Probably means that the secondary Russian market won´t see much of a return anytime soon.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:17 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 10):
Depends - on regular day-light schedules likely not, on red-eyes yes.

Maybe a return to EVN ?
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
dalca
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):

EVN is served ex VIE by OS on with a daily flight, there is no need to add capacity to there.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting dalca (Reply 12):

EVN is served ex VIE by OS on with a daily flight, there is no need to add capacity to there.

I've always found it funny that LH left the EVN market to OS. Austrian doesn't even fly to LAX, so LH can't even compete on the strongest O&D from North America to Armenia, leaving it all to AF and SU.
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SCQ83
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:38 pm

I find interesting Western carriers are closing routes to Brazil or Russia pretty much every day... the BRICS are long gone.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 7):
I want them to restart SVX so I can go see my friend.

Plenty of other ways to get to SVX. Hopefully LH not servicing Ekaterinburg is not the reason you don't travel out to see your friend, otherwise that would be one hell of a poor excuse.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):

I find interesting Western carriers are closing routes to Brazil or Russia pretty much every day... the BRICS are long gone.

BRICS are long gone? Care to explain?

LH hasn't had great yields on secondary Russian city markets for quite a while. So while the current economic situation might have put the final nail on the coffin for those guys, it's definitely not the full reason. Those flights were often more than half empty.
 
smbukas
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:46 pm

I remember presentation of LH CEO few years ago saying - "we are not making any money anywhere in Russia, except Moscow - but we are looking forward how to find a way to work with other parts in Russia". That was in 2010 or 2011, but Russia was on big growth pattern and might be LH expected to build presence and to earn something in the future. So, most likely, with current economic environment LH even lost the light in the tunnel, so step is logical.

I do not see they needed aircraft to free up for other red-eye flights - maybe for some overnights in other European stations they are willing to to that, but LH do not do so many red-eye flights with narrow bodies out of FRA.
 
SCQ83
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 15):
BRICS are long gone? Care to explain?

LH hasn't had great yields on secondary Russian city markets for quite a while. So while the current economic situation might have put the final nail on the coffin for those guys, it's definitely not the full reason. Those flights were often more than half empty.

Vnukovo is a Moscow airport... I didn't know Moscow was a secondary Russian city  
 
hjulicher
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 15):
BRICS are long gone? Care to explain?

Here i'm going to disagree with you. The current political situation in Russia is so dire that foreign direct investment in Russia is non existent... That said, Russia's largest trading partners are no longer traveling to Russia... Even VKO is being closes and frequencies to LED have been reduced. LH isn't the only carrier doing this. GM is pulling out of Russia all together and they had a JV with AutoVAZ.

For Russia, politics is definitely the driver the of the economy. Without transparency or faith in the system, no money coming from the West is going to be invested in Russia. As I see it, Russia is transitioning towards the East and cooperating much more with China nowadays instead of the traditionally Europe.

That said, Moscovites and St. Peterburgers are much more European and Western leaning (and they if anyone have the power and resources to cause change - any wonder why the protests were in Moscow and now elsewhere in Russia). I wonder how long this will continue. With Putin cracking down on any sort of "western" infiltration whether through NGOs or other means, Russia will close and isolate itself off from the west even further. They are even finding ways to stifle Russian NGOs which have some sort of financing sourced from the West, (even from Swiss bank accounts belonging to Russians).

As for Russia, it is a member of the so called BRICS, but it's economic performance over the past 5 years is hardly spectacular. For 2013, Russia had a growth rate of just 1.3%, less than that of the United States which is a fully developed and mature economy. I imagine for 2014 it will even be worse with the collapse of the Ruble. One USD is 55 RUB today, where as one year ago, it was around 35 RUB per USD. That said, I don't see Russia recovering, and the Middle East (OPEC) has much more power to influence the world price of oil which ultimately is the 2nd most influential aspect of the Russian Economy. They have the power to hurt Russia but lowering the price. So in a sense, they're leverage not only hurts Russia, but also Canada and the US (fracking).

In the long term, the situation in Russia is depressing. Without a diversification of the economy and the world turning away from Fossil Fuels, combined with political isolation, Russia will find its power waning. They will continue to exert power where they can (Ukraine, Caucuses), but Russia is going into hybernation, and will not awake until a 'Russian Spring'.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 17):
Vnukovo is a Moscow airport... I didn't know Moscow was a secondary Russian city

Never in my post did I say it was   I was talking about the secondary cities. And also... LH is dropping VKO, has nothing to do with the rest of their Moscow operations at DME. It's also not logistically easy to split operations into two locations, so much more is involved here than simple politics. LH is my carrier of choice between the US and Moscow. VKO happens to be located right next to one of my Moscow apartments, so FRA-VKO is a flight I am no stranger to. Sorry to see it go, and hope that it resurrects in the future. But can see why LH wants to consolidate operations to it's much better suited DME location.

Quoting hjulicher (Reply 18):

Nice take on things and good personal insight. I'm mostly neutral on the topic, but do agree with many of your points. Economically, Russia will have to do a lot to recover. And the next few years will shape the next decades, so I hope that someone slaps some sense back into things. Will be interesting to watch closely and follow along.

I wasn't stating a point myself, just rather wanted some deeper insight from SCQ83's very vague "the BRICS are long gone" statement.  
 
Freshside3
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:51 pm

Given this scenario, with many of the secondary Russian airports not being served by the Star Alliance, wouldn't it make sense to talk to Transaero to be a potential member, at this time?
In contrast, SkyTeam has SU, and OneWorld has S7 as part of their alliances.
 
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conaly
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:16 am

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 20):
Given this scenario, with many of the secondary Russian airports not being served by the Star Alliance, wouldn't it make sense to talk to Transaero to be a potential member, at this time?

AFAIK Transaero has been a potential Star Alliance candidate for like five years now. A few years ago Transaero manager already stated, that they are looking into it, but it is not priority to them. Don't know anything about the current status.
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SR4ever
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:58 am

Rather than Transaero, Star should go for UTAir, which as a very good domestic network in Russia...
 
2175301
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RE: LH Ends Service To 3 Russia Destinations

Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
the BRICS are long gone.

I agree that BRICS is in trouble: It is a consortium of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

While this represents a noticeable percentage of the population (due to China and India) and a good portion of Natural Resources; the economies of these nations, in general, are not do so well (especially if you look at the structural issues in those countries: i.e. China seems to be doing well; but its banking system has many Billions of worthless loans that are being propped up by "strange" economic policies which cannot last forever leading to economic collapse. There are a reason there are ghost cities in China).

I see it as they had a chance when BRIC (and then BRICS) was formed to really improve themselves as a group. But, they have not done so; and I agree that Russia is severely pulling them down right now.


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