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audidudi
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:58 pm

Uh-Oh! It looks like N956AT is already heading back to the Mid-West tomorrow, June 5th! After flying three LAX>SFO>LAX roundtrips, she then routes LAX>LAS>SLC>MCI>DTW. As I will shortly be enroute from ICN>DTW>LAX>SFO, I will be unable to track any swaps for awhile! I'm certain there must be a swap involved here. Perhaps someone can try to keep track of these swaps!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N956AT

[Edited 2015-06-04 14:34:17]
 
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TheRedBaron
Posts: 3276
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting backseatdriver (Reply 32):
DL never had the 737-400 in its fleet. I believe they ran the 1990s CA shuttle using the old Western -300s.

I sand Corrected my memory is not that good after all [old]

Quoting compensateme (Reply 36):
Except that there's about triple the number of daily flights, and flights are expected to sell 80% or more of their seats (vs. 50%-60% in the 1980s).

I know frequency is king today but the DL shuttle was like 10 flights a day each hour each way... and yes fares today are ridiculous if you book early ...

Quoting afcjets (Reply 42):
It would surprise me if in the days of Western if they did not offer full meal service in Coach too, and on routes shorter than LAX-PDX.

They did in serve full meal Y in MEX -LAX ah...Western Airlines...

Quoting CV880 (Reply 46):
I moved to SFO in 1977. At that time DL had a DC8-61 SFO-LAX with standby fares as low as $13. What a zoo!.

It was known as the midnight ZOO for 13 to 16 you hop in the Aircraft, no frills, baggage allowed and no big luggage.... a ZOO indeed.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 49):
That's complicated.... for the next couple weeks while there are only 5 ships out on the West Coast, expect one or two a week to swap out for the East Coast. It will get a lot more complicated as we continue to add 717 routes out West.
Quoting audidudi (Reply 50):
Uh-Oh! It looks like N956AT is already heading back to the Mid-West tomorrow, June 5th! After flying three LAX>SFO>LAX roundtrips, she then routes LAX>LAS>SLC>MCI>DTW. As I will shortly be enroute from ICN>DTW>LAX>SFO, I'm certain there must be a swap involved here. Perhaps someone can try to keep track of these swaps!

Aircraft are not "based" anywhere. The aircraft rotate through the system so they get through the appropriate locations needed for maintenance purposes and also to maintain system integrity.

There is a daily scheduled routing that bridges aircraft into the West Coast:
DTW-MCI-SLC-LAS-LAX / LAX-LAS-SLC-MCI-DTW

There is no point in tracking which 717s are on the west coast since they are going to bring a different one in/out daily on the above routing.

There is no "uh-oh" that is a scheduled route.
 
jbmitt
Posts: 667
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 52):
There is a daily scheduled routing that bridges aircraft into the West Coast:
DTW-MCI-SLC-LAS-LAX / LAX-LAS-SLC-MCI-DTW

But to have 5 tails out there, unless several are positioned, there has to be some delay before they start coming back out on the LAX-LAS-SLC-MCI-DTW routing. I agree that ultimately any tail can operate out and back based on the routing that you provided. I'm sure there is some methodology for the routing once at LAX and before they operate the return to DTW.

[Edited 2015-06-04 14:15:13]
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:25 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 52):

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 49):
That's complicated.... for the next couple weeks while there are only 5 ships out on the West Coast, expect one or two a week to swap out for the East Coast. It will get a lot more complicated as we continue to add 717 routes out West.
Quoting audidudi (Reply 50):
Uh-Oh! It looks like N956AT is already heading back to the Mid-West tomorrow, June 5th! After flying three LAX>SFO>LAX roundtrips, she then routes LAX>LAS>SLC>MCI>DTW. As I will shortly be enroute from ICN>DTW>LAX>SFO, I'm certain there must be a swap involved here. Perhaps someone can try to keep track of these swaps!

Aircraft are not "based" anywhere. The aircraft rotate through the system so they get through the appropriate locations needed for maintenance purposes and also to maintain system integrity.

There is a daily scheduled routing that bridges aircraft into the West Coast:
DTW-MCI-SLC-LAS-LAX / LAX-LAS-SLC-MCI-DTW

There is no point in tracking which 717s are on the west coast since they are going to bring a different one in/out daily on the above routing.

There is no "uh-oh" that is a scheduled route.

   Thank you for clarifying for everyone.

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 53):

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 52):
There is a daily scheduled routing that bridges aircraft into the West Coast:
DTW-MCI-SLC-LAS-LAX / LAX-LAS-SLC-MCI-DTW

But to have 5 tails out there, unless several are positioned, there has to be some delay before they start coming back out on the LAX-LAS-SLC-MCI-DTW routing. I agree that ultimately any tail can operate out and back based on the routing that you provided. I'm sure there is some methodology for the routing once at LAX and before they operate the return to DTW.

So as 956AT/9515 heads back East, 9560 will do the opposite trip and they swap out.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 44):
Why aren't they basing them out of SLC (I thought that was the West Coast MX base for most types at DL...)?

nope. Delta has hangars in SLC/LAX/SEA/CVG/BOS/NRT (and one place more coming soon) but Delta's maintenance bases are ATL/MSP

ATL does all the engines that are done in-house, 737/757/767/777/320 checks and back shop work
MSP does V2500 build ups after they come back from the vendor, I think they are doing some 2037/2040 hospital visits, some back shop work and M88/M90/717/330 checks.

Having said that, none of that really matters. I don't know the specific time between checks on the 717 but its generally 12-24 months depending on the plane and they can always just ferry them to MSP or the vendor depending on the work being done.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 52):

Aircraft are not "based" anywhere. The aircraft rotate through the system so they get through the appropriate locations needed for maintenance purposes and also to maintain system integrity.

           
one of these may DTW-MCI-SLC-LAS-LAX and back or one may fly that routing and stay out west for months.....it all just depends on system needs and what is the best thing to do.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:34 pm

How many 717s currently on property?
What gets measured gets done.
 
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northwestEWR
Posts: 1974
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:40 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 56):
How many 717s currently on property?

Should be 70 as of 5/31.

91 by the end of 2015--that includes the 3 Blue1 aircraft.

[Edited 2015-06-04 14:42:05]
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
dbo861
Posts: 1060
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:52 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 57):
Should be 70 as of 5/31.

91 by the end of 2015--that includes the 3 Blue1 aircraft.

Wow. That has to be one of the quickest new fleet-type acquisitions in airline history. From operating zero to 91 in just over 2 years.
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 55):
nope. Delta has hangars in SLC/LAX/SEA/CVG/BOS/NRT (and one place more coming soon) but Delta's maintenance bases are ATL/MSP

Doesn't DTW as well?
 
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northwestEWR
Posts: 1974
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting syncmaster (Reply 59):

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 55):
nope. Delta has hangars in SLC/LAX/SEA/CVG/BOS/NRT (and one place more coming soon) but Delta's maintenance bases are ATL/MSP

Doesn't DTW as well?

They do--it's mostly an RON / Line check hangar though. Not a whole lot going on in terms of actual maintenance.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 58):

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 57):
Should be 70 as of 5/31.

91 by the end of 2015--that includes the 3 Blue1 aircraft.

Wow. That has to be one of the quickest new fleet-type acquisitions in airline history. From operating zero to 91 in just over 2 years.

Absolutely. It's been an incredible effort by the Flight Ops and MX teams to get these birds into the fleet and in the air. They've done a great job with very few hiccups.

Has any carrier ever taken 50 airplanes a year?
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
as739x
Posts: 5236
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 12):

They need to serve the route first
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
afcjets
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:59 pm

It is both great and sad to see so much excitement about a soon to be vintage aircraft coming into service on the West Coast. You hear less complaints about uncomfortable seats at Delta than at United and American and it's average aircraft age is no doubt a factor. Instead of airlines advertising how they have new aircraft and young fleets, perhaps one day will see airlines boast they have the oldest fleet in the sky.   I hope Delta flies these for as long as NW flew the DC9.



Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 57):
that includes the 3 Blue1 aircraft

What is that?
 
PanAm788
Posts: 136
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:40 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 62):
It is both great and sad to see so much excitement about a soon to be vintage aircraft coming into service on the West Coast. You hear less complaints about uncomfortable seats at Delta than at United and American and it's average aircraft age is no doubt a factor. Instead of airlines advertising how they have new aircraft and young fleets, perhaps one day will see airlines boast they have the oldest fleet in the sky. I hope Delta flies these for as long as NW flew the DC9.

DL's 717 are 10-17 years old which is hardly vintage. Yes the overall design including the wing is old but the 717 is still a modern and efficient aircraft. Delta also re-did the entire interior so it's not old seats that people here are excited about, it's seeing the DL/NW strategy of buying used but still efficient "orphan" aircraft at super low prices and operating them profitably for the duration of their life in action. Also it's nice to see the last member of the DC-9 family return to its west coast "home".


Quoting afcjets (Reply 62):

What is that?

Finnish airline and 717 operator.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3541
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 63):
DL's 717 are 10-17 years old which is hardly vintage. Yes the overall design including the wing is old but the 717 is still a modern and efficient aircraft. Delta also re-did the entire interior so it's not old seats that people here are excited about, it's seeing the DL/NW strategy of buying used but still efficient "orphan" aircraft at super low prices and operating them profitably for the duration of their life in action. Also it's nice to see the last member of the DC-9 family return to its west coast "home".

I am considering it "soon to be" vintage because they ceased production of the 717 almost ten years ago and yes because of the overall design which stems back to the early 1960s.

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 63):
Quoting afcjets (Reply 62):
What is that?

Finnish airline and 717 operator.

LOL totally misread that, I was reading it as three-blue-one as a title that rhymes with 3-2-1, thinking it was one aircraft with a special paint scheme.

[Edited 2015-06-05 10:08:10]
 
EMB170
Posts: 376
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:18 pm

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 24):
I am hoping to see them on DL 4499 turns from SLC - ABQ and back, but that is a hope. I did see that SLC-ABQ was an A320 for a bit this spring, but seemed like a large jump from a CRJ9. It is back to CRJ9 next week.
Quoting flyorski (Reply 47):
For the summer schedule DL has an Airbus RON in ABQ for the SLC turn. The other two daily's tend to be RJ's.

I am booked on DL 4441 in a couple of weeks. It looks like DL was running an A320 into ABQ from SLC, but the tradeoff was that they only offered an early morning departure and an evening departure. They've since gone back to 3 OO operated CR9s, but the benefit is 3 flights instead of 2.
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
pdxswa
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:40 pm

Nice to see the 717's here at PDX !


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johnyv
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:23 am

RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:43 pm

At a given time, how many are on the West Coast? How often are they cycled back east?
 
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northwestEWR
Posts: 1974
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting johnyv (Reply 67):
At a given time, how many are on the West Coast? How often are they cycled back east?

See the lengthy discussion above about that exact question. It's 3-4 aircraft at this time, cycled as required.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
flyorski
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 65):
I am booked on DL 4441 in a couple of weeks. It looks like DL was running an A320 into ABQ from SLC, but the tradeoff was that they only offered an early morning departure and an evening departure. They've since gone back to 3 OO operated CR9s, but the benefit is 3 flights instead of 2.

Actually when it is an Airbus it has still been three daily flights. One airbus that RONs and then two additional RJ900 (or 700) OO departures. Basically the number of the flights is the same.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
DeltaMD95
Posts: 560
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 57):
Should be 70 as of 5/31.

91 by the end of 2015--that includes the 3 Blue1 aircraft.

IMHO, if DL could add 20-30 additional aircraft over the next 18-24 months - they would.

But it may be another 3-5 years before DL can bring the fleet above 100. With E190s likely coming, what does that mean for the future active number increases? We can only speculate but it will be interesting to see if another fleet of 717s is acquired for active service in the future.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 58):
Wow. That has to be one of the quickest new fleet-type acquisitions in airline history. From operating zero to 91 in just over 2 years.

   It really is quite an impressive commitment in such a short amount of time.

Quoting audidudi (Reply 26):

Here's the list of the aircraft which are now operating on the West Coast:

Ship #9515 N956AT
Ship #9518 N959AT
Ship #9551 N891AT
Ship #9564 N935AT
Ship #9581 N910AT

Gosh, I love these ship numbers. A great homage to the MD95 by DL.   
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
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northwestEWR
Posts: 1974
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RE: DL Starts B717 Service On The West Coast

Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:00 am

Quoting DeltaMD95 (Reply 70):
But it may be another 3-5 years before DL can bring the fleet above 100. With E190s likely coming, what does that mean for the future active number increases? We can only speculate but it will be interesting to see if another fleet of 717s is acquired for active service in the future.

I imagine that if more 717s become available, having the E190 won't stop Delta from picking them up too.

Quoting DeltaMD95 (Reply 70):
IMHO, if DL could add 20-30 additional aircraft over the next 18-24 months - they would.

  
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