|Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):|
Quoting tortugamon (Reply 80):
I don't think you do meetings with ~30 airlines to talk about one specific concept unless you are 'serious' about finding a solution. I agree that it sounds like they have not found one yet.
I don't believe they had meetings with 30 airlines to talk about one concept. The article suggests that the question was fairly open inasmuch as it asks "What would you want to see in a plane bigger than the MAX
Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
"“We’ve probably seen over 30 customers and talked to them about really what they are looking for in an airplane bigger than the 737 MAX family,”
As per your OP
Quoting 321neoLR (Reply 88):
I think Airbus has missed the boat with the neo. They should have launched a 321 stretch, not by much, but just slightly longer than a 752, with enough fuel for about 26T of fuel, with no cargo tanks.
My view is that this boat hasn't sailed yet.
Fast forward to c. 20205-2030
Take an A321
Add a 2nd generation GTF like the RR Advance with a c. 10% SFC improvement over the current GTF
Add a new CFRP wing with folding tips, offering the 26t of fuel you suggest
And stretch to c. 752 length or a fraction longer.
5000Nm should be possible on an TOW of about 110t tops.
I think this is an advantage the A320 series has. The above could be fairly easily done, and quickly too, compared to a clean-sheet
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 93):
And yet now they're talking about 30 or so customers who want almost exactly that.
I'm not sure the replies were that unequivocal, given the open nature of the question...
I think you are right, Airbus can develop a 322 platform, keeping the 320-321 as is, at a relatively low cost. The 737 can't improve, and if they have to design a totally new model, it won't be a simple integration to an airline. Pilots which are the major expense for multi fleet, can fly the 319,320,321, 322 on one rating, and also 330 or the 350 via a ccq.
If you compare Boeing product, you can have the 737-700,800,900, but the 900 or even the 900er can't match the 321LR for range with 180-200 pax. If you throw the 787 into the mix, pilots cannot fly the 737, and ccq to 787, it is completely different systems. A new mom aircraft would be a new rating, a new model, which would damage the 737.
This is where Airbus has the advantage. The 321LR is just a stop gap, I think to halt Boeing developing a new model.
Will Airbus stretch the 321? Will they be able to beat the 757 performance with a full load?
I know a small airline that operate 737,757,and 767. They are replacing them with 319,320,321LR, and 330. All pilots can fly every model, with no extra training required annually. They currently have a group for 737,757 and 767.
Even with the increased cost of the new aircraft, the recurring costs and number of crew required would vastly reduce. This is where Airbus has the lead.
Another former national carrier has 319, 320,321,757,330, currently requiring 3 different sets of pilots. With the 321lr, they can have one set of pilots for narrow body, and one for wide body, while having the reduced fuel burn compared to the 757.
Boeing would have to create an entire new narrow body based on the 787 systems, with the sizes of the 737-700,800,900,up to 757-300, which is the exact same type, with the same systems, then Boeing can match Airbus with a product line.
But this would destroy the 737 for good, while costing a huge amount of money.
The downfall is also compounded, when airlines would have to add this new entire fleet to keep comanality, while Airbus just has to add the longer 321 to obtain the same result.
Very interesting times ahead.