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commavia
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Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:02 pm

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-qantas-airways-add-190000737.html

* Daily AA 77W LAX-SYD (starts 12/17)
* 6x weekly QF 744 SFO-SYD (starts 12/20)
* AA and QANTAS also evolving their partnership into a deeper, revenue-sharing JV
* Press release hints at the deeper JV enabling future growth such as U.S.-New Zealand in the future (cough, AA 787, cough)

 Smile

[Edited 2015-06-09 12:06:25]
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:04 pm

For the longest time so many people argued this would never be possible and not allowed under the JBA. There goes that.

Great news for both.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:06 pm

Great news. Now to wonder if AA will consider LAX-AKL too.
 
rta
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:12 pm

Great news!

Glad to see QF back to SFO.

[Edited 2015-06-09 12:12:57]
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:12 pm

Interesting ... Joyce explaining that AA's 77W will be in addition to the QANTAS A380 and QANTAS will also keep 3x weekly 747, for a total of 17x weekly LAX-SYD, plus building to 6x weekly SFO-SYD.
 
panamair
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Joyce explaining that AA's 77W will be in addition to the QANTAS A380 and QANTAS will also keep 3x weekly 747, for a total of 17x weekly LAX-SYD

Looks like total frequency on LAX-SYD would go from 14x weekly to 17x weekly, which means the second QF service (744) will be reduced from daily to 3x weekly...
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:18 pm

Lots of new capacity for LAX-SYD. Not many markets have service from all three of the US majors, especially ones as long and relatively thin as this one (when compared to others such as NYC-LHR or LAX-NRT).

Could this have anything to do with DL starting LAX-PVG?
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Interesting ... Joyce explaining that AA's 77W will be in addition to the QANTAS A380 and QANTAS will also keep 3x weekly 747

How will this affect QF's LAX-JFK? Will the AA flight replace the flight that goes to JFK, or will the QF A380 be going there now?
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:21 pm

Parker in the press conference talking about New Zealand - that this partnership "enables" potential service from the U.S. there in the future.

Sounds like LAX-AKL may not be too far around the corner ...
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 5):
Looks like total frequency on LAX-SYD would go from 14x weekly to 17x weekly, which means the second QF service (744) will be reduced from daily to 3x weekly...

I assume that this "reduction" (I use quotes because its still a net increase) is where they are getting the plane for SYD-SFO. Which begs a question, if they are reducing 744 usage on SYD-LAX, what A/C will service the LAX-JFK route?
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:23 pm

Definitely puts the squeeze on DL's LAX-SYD flight. Aussies will probably remain loyal to QF...so this will likely divide the U.S. originating flyers.
 
planetime
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:25 pm

Does this mean that QF service to JFK will be no more starting December?
 
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qf789
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
How will this affect QF's LAX-JFK? Will the AA flight replace the flight that goes to JFK, or will the QF A380 be going there now?

No affect to the LAX-JFK flight. The 744 that is used is from the BNE flight but uses the SYD flight no (being QF11 to JFK and QF18 from JFK)

Normal routing is BNE-LAX-JFK-LAX-SYD

[Edited 2015-06-09 12:28:14]
 
panamair
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 10):
Definitely puts the squeeze on DL's LAX-SYD flight.

Why would it particularly affect the DL flight, compared to say the UA flight? DL has a JV with VA on this route and that helps greatly with the Australian point-of-sale.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 10):
Definitely puts the squeeze on DL's LAX-SYD flight. Aussies will probably remain loyal to QF...so this will likely divide the U.S. originating flyers.

I don't really think there's a new divide per se. Existing oneworld loyalists would've flown QF anyway, now split between QF and AA.

But if I'm counting correctly, this would be the only 10-abreast 777 service on this route. Everyone else is 9-abreast 777 (DL, VA, UA) or very comfy A380.
 
planetime
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 12):
No affect to the LAX-JFK flight. The 744 that is used is from the BNE flight but uses the SYD flight no (being QF11 to JFK and QF18 from JFK)

Thanks! That clears that one out.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 12):
No affect to the LAX-JFK flight. The 744 that is used is from the BNE flight but uses the SYD flight no (being QF11 to JFK and QF18 from JFK)

Oh thanks. I forgot that there is a 744 from BNE-LAX
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 10):
Definitely puts the squeeze on DL's LAX-SYD flight. Aussies will probably remain loyal to QF...so this will likely divide the U.S. originating flyers.

I'd say this is a greater attack on UA as they're relaunching SFO-SYD to challenge UA which has the monopoly at the moment on that route.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:30 pm

Interesting so much capacity piled into a market that has slowed and actually shown some negative year over year numbers largely due slowing Australia economy and AUD weakness.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 17):

I'd say this is a greater attack on UA as they're relaunching SFO-SYD to challenge UA which has the monopoly at the moment on that route.

That's hardly an attack. UA and QF both co-existed peacefully on SFO-SYD for the longest time. The last time it was QF voluntarily quitting instead of UA driving them out. This is just a return to the "good ole days".
 
Sightseer
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 10):
Definitely puts the squeeze on DL's LAX-SYD flight.

How is DL more adversely affected than UA by this announcement?

Nonetheless, I do wonder what DL/VA will do now that QF is restarting SFO and UA is in MEL.
 
UA444
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 20):
How is DL more adversely affected than UA by this announcement?

DL is far less established in Australia than UA.
 
hoons90
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:35 pm

Congratulations to AA/QF!

I had a feeling that the announcement wouldn't be about an Asia flight, given its timing.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 18):
Interesting so much capacity piled into a market that has slowed and actually shown some negative year over year numbers largely due slowing Australia economy and AUD weakness.

Plus the upcoming NZ AKL-IAH, which inherently will draw from feed from Australia.

I don't expect any participants to blink and quit, but there might be a risk that US-Australia will ignite into a fare war the way that US-Brazil is going on right now.

If UA truly wants to retaliate, I see them launching LAX-BNE.
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:38 pm

Does anyone know what gates AA will use at LAX for the SYD departure?
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:39 pm

Overall, I think positive and exciting news for AA and QANTAS. Their deepened joint business will enable them to continue to command the lion's share of the U.S.-Australia market, which this new capacity will help, and also apparently lead to possible new service to New Zealand (almost certainly LAX-AKL, and likely with an AA 787).

In the broader sense, though, I think seeing this, and stepping back a bit to the "big picture," any objective assessment at this point would have to recognize how far AA has come - both at LAX, and across the Pacific. Compared to where AA was 10, or even 5, years ago, AA's growth and investment in the region has been truly impressive. By the end of this year, AA plans to be flying a dozen daily nonstop flights with 777s or 787s from U.S. gateways across the Pacific to six points in Asia (TYO, SEL, PEK, SHA, HKG) and Australia (SYD).

As we're constantly reminded, AA is at a perpetual, structural and almost certainly permanent disadvantage to United and quite likely Delta when it comes to the Pacific, but I think the debate is now pretty much over about whether or not AA is at least a viable competitor there. And, stepping back even a bit more, when combined with the heft of the merged airline across the Atlantic and AA's traditional dominance to Latin America, AA is gradually becoming a true global powerhouse capable of competing with Delta and United.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 24):
Does anyone know what gates AA will use at LAX for the SYD departure?

If they're smart, they'll co-locate at TBIT and have side-by-side wing-tip departures next to QF.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:41 pm

Well still would take Qantas over any of the American carriers offering flights. Though good to see expanding for AA. Ironically I flew AA to SYD years ago routing was DTW - DFW - HNL - SYD on the DC10!
 
Sightseer
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 21):

True. However, they have no JV on the AU end and stand to lose more higher-yielding O&D traffic ...
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 19):
UA and QF both co-existed peacefully on SFO-SYD for the longest time. The last time it was QF voluntarily quitting instead of UA driving them out. This is just a return to the "good ole days".

I would argue that QF left because they were losing money. Now, they are back and their return is going to impact the performance of UA's flight. Now, I'm sure UA will still do fine on SFO-SYD, but I could see the margins slipping a bit.
 
crazytoaster
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 25):
Overall, I think positive and exciting news for AA and QANTAS. Their deepened joint business will enable them to continue to command the lion's share of the U.S.-Australia market, which this new capacity will help, and also apparently lead to possible new service to New Zealand (almost certainly LAX-AKL, and likely with an AA 787).

I got that impression too that LAX-AKL isn't too far down the road from AA.

So much added capacity to Australia and New Zealand coming this year. Personally most excited about IAH-AKL hope to fly that next year.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):
I would argue that QF left because they were losing money

As I recall QF hinted at the time that they were not losing money on the route, but rather that they felt they could make more money using the aircraft elsewhere.
 
anstar
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:48 pm

SO all in all a frequency increase for AA/QF of 3 flights a week to north america.

I think this puts much more pressure on Untied (who fly SYD-SFO)... than it does on DL.
 
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qf789
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:50 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):
I would argue that QF left because they were losing money

No they left SFO so they could operate DFW as they did not have the aircraft at the time to do both. DFW was more of a priority due to the AA's feed at DFW.
 
modesto2
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:55 pm

Definitely glad to hear about QF's return to SFO. Let's hope they stay permanently this time!
 
Scorp82
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):
I would argue that QF left because they were losing money. Now, they are back and their return is going to impact the performance of UA's flight. Now, I'm sure UA will still do fine on SFO-SYD, but I could see the margins slipping a bit.

If I'm not mistaken, QF did not withdraw from SFO due to monetary losses. I understand that QF required an additional frame in order to commence DFW. As such, the lack of available aircraft saw the discontinuation of SFO, in favor of allocating the B744 to the DFW flight. I may stand corrected though. This is prior to QF deploying the A380 to DFW of course.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:56 pm

Finally I get my dream flight.


Where are all the "experts" who doubled-down on the "AA cant fly to SYD because of the JBA and ACC" argument.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:57 pm

Interesting.
As mentioned, now is not exactly the healthiest time in the market as Australia-US demand has definitely slowed result of the economy and currency rates.
Suppose there will be some good future fares to be had.
 
Scorp82
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 36):
Where are all the "experts" who doubled-down on the "AA cant fly to SYD because of the JBA and ACC" argument.

Right! Some folks did say AA would not commence LAX-SYD because AA would not never do that to QF!

Such supposition is now debunked!
 
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Miami
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:02 pm

 
modesto2
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:09 pm

 
hiflyeras
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
Why would it particularly affect the DL flight, compared to say the UA flight? DL has a JV with VA on this route and that helps greatly with the Australian point-of-sale.

True...forgot that UA has served the route for years. If AA/QF do a joint venture and DL/VA strengthen their partnership I guess UA is the loser (if there has to be one)?
http://atwonline.com/open-skies/aust...end-virgin-australiadelta-alliance
 
as739x
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 31):

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):
I would argue that QF left because they were losing money

As I recall QF hinted at the time that they were not losing money on the route, but rather that they felt they could make more money using the aircraft elsewhere.

Correct. It was a fleet utilization issue with the DFW start
 
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qf789
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:11 pm

MEL-LAX will be reduced by 1 weekly frequency. SFO flights will be 3 weekly initially going to 6 weekly from end of January 2016. This is probably due to operating the seasonal YVR flights.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 41):

True...forgot that UA has served the route for years. If AA/QF do a joint venture and DL/VA strengthen their partnership I guess UA is the loser (if there has to be one)?

Just like how AA/BA plus DL/VS would completely destroy UA at LHR ... oh wait
 
byronicle6
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:20 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
Sounds like LAX-AKL may not be too far around the corner ...

        
With both CEOs referring to it several times, it seems it will be not be a matter of if, but when
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:26 pm

As others have said, LAX-JFK will not be affected. Presumably most people had missed that QF17/18 is already a 380 on SYD-LAX-SYD, switching to a 747 in LAX which had operated inbound as QF15.

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 28):

UA don't pick up a huge amount of high yield Australian O&D, but have some very lucrative traffic ex-USA. There's no way that AA/QF will be rocking the boat too much in SFO, most just taking some price conscious traffic down the back plus the high yield ex-Australia market.

United will be fine. They are very established in the market. I'd be more concerned about VA and DL. DL will be fine going it alone with one daily flight, but VA is hardly hanging in there, especially on BNE-LAX. I'm actually surprised that DL puts up with their perennial losses.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):

At the time they left QF specifically said that SYD-SFO was profitable. It was canned to free up capacity for DFW, which was the short term priority. While a nice market to serve, SFO is pretty much 100% O&D for QF.
 
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OA412
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 31):
As I recall QF hinted at the time that they were not losing money on the route, but rather that they felt they could make more money using the aircraft elsewhere.
Quoting qf789 (Reply 33):
No they left SFO so they could operate DFW as they did not have the aircraft at the time to do both.
Quoting as739x (Reply 42):
Correct. It was a fleet utilization issue with the DFW start
OK and when you need aircraft to start a new route, you take one from a poorly performing route. If SFO was going gangbusters last time, they would have pulled an aircraft from another route. Truth is, SFO was most likely losing money, or at best, just barely breaking even.

[Edited 2015-06-09 13:36:30]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting scorp82 (Reply 35):


If I'm not mistaken, QF did not withdraw from SFO due to monetary losses. I understand that QF required an additional frame in order to commence DFW. As such, the lack of available aircraft saw the discontinuation of SFO, in favor of allocating the B744 to the DFW flight. I may stand corrected though. This is prior to QF deploying the A380 to DFW of course.
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 31):

As I recall QF hinted at the time that they were not losing money on the route, but rather that they felt they could make more money using the aircraft elsewhere.


This is what we call in the industry, technically speaking, nonsense. Airlines don't cut profitable flying, especially airlines who have such a famously unprofitable international network. I suspect low oil made this a helluva lot more viable than the last attempt.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA LAX-SYD/QF SFO-SYD

Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 26):

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 24):
Does anyone know what gates AA will use at LAX for the SYD departure?

If they're smart, they'll co-locate at TBIT and have side-by-side wing-tip departures next to QF.

All AA international flights will be out of TBIT by early 2016.

AA has already started using TBIT regularly for departures, usually MIA flights.

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