With huge global growth by the Chinese carriers at the moment why does it seem the UK in particular is being avoided .
In the last year the only significant changes have been Air China moving their second daily flight upto Heathrow and China Eastern going daily.
Much talk a few months ago about a regional service yet nothing has actually morphed - Well just a few consolidated charters to Birmingham.
Are the Chinese snubbing the UK because to our Visa requirements or other reasons perhaps.
Just what is going on ?
[Edited 2015-06-13 09:42:09]
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- jetblue1965
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RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
Not part of Schengen is a huge issue, plus low amount of historical ties other than with HKG, and nearly everything you wanna buy in UK it's cheaper at continental Europe
In general, north east Asia seems to have more traffic bound for continental Europe (esp CDG) compared to the UK, which is an interesting phenomenon considering there's no francophone region in NE Asia that provides a natural base of pax
In general, north east Asia seems to have more traffic bound for continental Europe (esp CDG) compared to the UK, which is an interesting phenomenon considering there's no francophone region in NE Asia that provides a natural base of pax
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
And let's not forget that three of the four major Chinese carriers serve LHR.
CA did try LGW for a while, but seems to have given up on it, for the same reason other carriers have.
Slot issues at LHR would probably be another factor restricting growth.
CA did try LGW for a while, but seems to have given up on it, for the same reason other carriers have.
Slot issues at LHR would probably be another factor restricting growth.
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
I think alot of it has to do with visa's. If coming to Europe why bother getting a shengen and UK visa when a shengen visa lets you visit a lot more countries for a lot less hassle.
it is the same for Brits going to China - the visa process is expensive and time consuming.
it is the same for Brits going to China - the visa process is expensive and time consuming.
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
Visa rules being relaxed after a pilot scheme.
Ufi Ibrahim, Chief Executive of the British Hospitality Association quote:
"We welcome the Home Secretary's confirmation that the pilot scheme allowing Chinese visitors booking with approved tour operators to complete one form for both Schengen and UK visas is to be made open to all Chinese visitors to the UK."
So perhaps it's the actual bilateral hindering things although there should be enough frequencies left to allow a modest expansion of services in the short to medium term?
MAN having 33% of the total market for UK-China, why would they need LHR slots?
[Edited 2015-06-13 10:27:10]
Ufi Ibrahim, Chief Executive of the British Hospitality Association quote:
"We welcome the Home Secretary's confirmation that the pilot scheme allowing Chinese visitors booking with approved tour operators to complete one form for both Schengen and UK visas is to be made open to all Chinese visitors to the UK."
So perhaps it's the actual bilateral hindering things although there should be enough frequencies left to allow a modest expansion of services in the short to medium term?
| Quoting kaitak (Reply 2): Slot issues at LHR would probably be another factor restricting growth. |
MAN having 33% of the total market for UK-China, why would they need LHR slots?
[Edited 2015-06-13 10:27:10]
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
| Quoting rutankrd (Thread starter): With huge global growth by the Chinese carriers at the moment why does it seem the UK in particular is being avoided . |
The economic ties between Germany/The Netherlands/France and China is much bigger than that between the UK and China (the UK has more focus on Hong Kong). Therefore you see more destinations between these countries and China.
| Quoting kaitak (Reply 2): Slot issues at LHR would probably be another factor restricting growth. |
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
As a government wise, the British want to double everything with China, trade, tourism, investments... Etc.
But the Chinese people will always prefer Paris & Milan above all, actually France & Italy tourism bureau are very active in China and it is very welcoming them, all most all major boutiques in Paris have a Chinese staff, they understand how turn around the tax authorities in China and very efficient in tax refund.
London was and will be always for Middle Eastern.
But the Chinese people will always prefer Paris & Milan above all, actually France & Italy tourism bureau are very active in China and it is very welcoming them, all most all major boutiques in Paris have a Chinese staff, they understand how turn around the tax authorities in China and very efficient in tax refund.
London was and will be always for Middle Eastern.
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
In addition to the above:
Let's have a look at alliances and ask ourselves why Chinese airlines focus on AMS, CDG and FRA and not LHR.
- China Southern - SkyTeam
- China Eastern - SkyTeam
- Shanghai Airlines - SkyTeam affiliate
- China Airlines - SkyTeam
- Mandarin Airlines - SkyTeam affiliate
- Xiamen - SkyTeam
- Air China - STAR
- Shenzhen Airlines - STAR
- EVA Air - STAR
- Uni Air - STAR affiliate
- Dalian Airlines - STAR affiliate
- Cathay Pacific - OneWorld
And yet another way of looking at it:
LONDON, MANCHESTER gain a new Chinese codeshare next month:
- LHR dep. 08:40 - AMS arr. 11:00 MF 9305 Xiamen Airlines (ops. KLM)
- MAN dep. 09:05 - AMS arr. 11:30 MF9309 Xiamen Airlines (ops. KLM)
[Edited 2015-06-13 11:57:25]
Let's have a look at alliances and ask ourselves why Chinese airlines focus on AMS, CDG and FRA and not LHR.
- China Southern - SkyTeam
- China Eastern - SkyTeam
- Shanghai Airlines - SkyTeam affiliate
- China Airlines - SkyTeam
- Mandarin Airlines - SkyTeam affiliate
- Xiamen - SkyTeam
- Air China - STAR
- Shenzhen Airlines - STAR
- EVA Air - STAR
- Uni Air - STAR affiliate
- Dalian Airlines - STAR affiliate
- Cathay Pacific - OneWorld
And yet another way of looking at it:
LONDON, MANCHESTER gain a new Chinese codeshare next month:
- LHR dep. 08:40 - AMS arr. 11:00 MF 9305 Xiamen Airlines (ops. KLM)
- MAN dep. 09:05 - AMS arr. 11:30 MF9309 Xiamen Airlines (ops. KLM)
[Edited 2015-06-13 11:57:25]
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- aviationaware
- Posts: 2858
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RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
It's the de-industrialized British economy. A service economy like the UK tends to produce traffic to other places with service economies, as in Hong Kong. That plus historic ties make Hong Kong blown out of proportion while the lack of real economy causes stifled demand to Red China. No mainland airline in oneworld sure plays a role, but it's not the key factor.
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- gilesdavies
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RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
Heathow has been banging on for years that the UK is loosing out to Europe with direct conenctions to China, due to the lack of slots at the airport
Heathrow losing out on China traffic
Airlines have tried Gatwick but they can not make the money that Heathrow offers, so they are simply choosing not to serve the UK market.
On the other hand though, the airport is not doing that bad:
Beijing is served 3x Daily
Air China - 777 & A330
British Airways - 747
Shanghai is served 3x Daily
China Eastern - A330
Virgin Atlantic - Mix of 787/A340
British Airways - 777
Guangzhou is served Daily
China Southern - 777
Chengdu is served 3-5x a week
British Airways - 787
As mentioned above, Heathrow also has eight direct flights a day to Hong Kong, with Cathey Pacific, British Airways and Virgin, using a mix of 777, 787 and A340. Chinese citizen are able to fly into/out of HKG, without visa or travel restrictions, as if they were visiting the Hong Kong (Special Administration Region), as they can travel direct from the airport on hydrofoils across the Pearl Delta into PR of China as transfer passengers. The Pearl Delta region on China is one of the most populated areas in the world and doesn't really make sense for BA to operate addtional flights into nearby Guangzhou.
SkyPier services at Hong Kong International Airport
Also if there was such a demand on the current flights to/from China, there is plenty of room to add capacity by operating larger aircraft, as most the carriers are only flying mid-sized A330's and 787 on the routes.
Heathrow losing out on China traffic
Airlines have tried Gatwick but they can not make the money that Heathrow offers, so they are simply choosing not to serve the UK market.
On the other hand though, the airport is not doing that bad:
Beijing is served 3x Daily
Air China - 777 & A330
British Airways - 747
Shanghai is served 3x Daily
China Eastern - A330
Virgin Atlantic - Mix of 787/A340
British Airways - 777
Guangzhou is served Daily
China Southern - 777
Chengdu is served 3-5x a week
British Airways - 787
As mentioned above, Heathrow also has eight direct flights a day to Hong Kong, with Cathey Pacific, British Airways and Virgin, using a mix of 777, 787 and A340. Chinese citizen are able to fly into/out of HKG, without visa or travel restrictions, as if they were visiting the Hong Kong (Special Administration Region), as they can travel direct from the airport on hydrofoils across the Pearl Delta into PR of China as transfer passengers. The Pearl Delta region on China is one of the most populated areas in the world and doesn't really make sense for BA to operate addtional flights into nearby Guangzhou.
SkyPier services at Hong Kong International Airport
Also if there was such a demand on the current flights to/from China, there is plenty of room to add capacity by operating larger aircraft, as most the carriers are only flying mid-sized A330's and 787 on the routes.
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
Don't forget BHX although charters its a start, Hainan Airlines will be operating an expanded programme of Boeing 767-300 charter flights from Beijing to Birmingham Airport this summer following the success of the short series on flights operated in July and August 2014
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/News
Also China southern did a few charters last year so maybe who knows we might get a full service one day.
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/News%20-%20China
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/News%20-%20China.
[Edited 2015-06-13 15:11:56]
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/News
Also China southern did a few charters last year so maybe who knows we might get a full service one day.
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/News%20-%20China
http://bhxflightguide.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/News%20-%20China.
[Edited 2015-06-13 15:11:56]
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
The UK also has the stay away APD TAX. Easier to fly into Europe and get a train to UK if you want to.
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- Viscount724
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RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
| Quoting rutankrd (Thread starter): Are the Chinese snubbing the UK because to our Visa requirements or other reasons perhaps. |
Paris gets well over twice as many Chinese visitors as London. It's partly because shopping is a major attraction and they like the famous French fashion brands.
On their frequent visits to Switzerland they're now among the major customers for Swiss watches. They don't like buying famous brand names at home in China as they're worried they'll be fakes.
RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
| Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 9): Chinese citizen are able to fly into/out of HKG, without visa or travel restrictions, as if they were visiting the Hong Kong (Special Administration Region), as they can travel direct from the airport on hydrofoils across the Pearl Delta into PR of China as transfer passengers. |
Unless there has been a recent change mainland Chinese need an entry permit to HK. Or the population would quadruple overnight!!
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- PhoenixVIP
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RE: Are Chinese Carriers Deliberately Avoiding The UK
| Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 9): Chinese citizen are able to fly into/out of HKG, without visa or travel restrictions, as if they were visiting the Hong Kong |
Really? You know that flights in and out of China to Hong Kong are from International gates? Same classification as Taiwan and Macau.
There's nothing deliberate about Chinese carriers avoiding London. CA to LGW has always been a question mark hence we see it cancelled. However we have seen increase in flights over recent years from CA, MU and CZ to LHR. Indeed we have CA with double daily and also upping capacity straight away a few months ago from A330-200 to 777-300ER again. The Chinese population in London has only started ballooning upwards because of visa restrictions and existing number of Chinese there. It hasn't been viewed as a place of education or work like Australia or Canada or US has. You need to look at the populations there to see why air travel from China to London hasn't been that popular.
Also explains why the Chinese food in London is terrible. Haha.
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