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aerolimani
Posts: 1329
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RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:02 pm

WS is no longer the LCC it originally purported to be. However, that fact doesn't necessarily dictate how they will approach their transatlantic venture. Given the relatively small widebody fleet, I suspect their plans and pricing are going to more closely resemble TS than AC. Their current destinations are all good for O&D leisure travel. Without alliances or codesharing, I don't think the transatlantic flights will have much appeal to the business crowd. Of course… if they end up in Skyteam someday, all this could change.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 35):
YWG - YUL - CDG
YXX - YEG - LGW
HNL - YYC - LGW (No idea if that is even possible to do but just as a thought?)

The first two are interesting and probably doable. For the third, well, they'll serve HNL during winter, but is there a need/market during summer? Otherwise they'd probably be as successful as Western (via ANC) more than three decades ago.

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 42):
That being said, TS gave up on Germany altogether last year.

Why? They found it hard to compete with DE and it's less cramped cabin?
 
fly_yhm
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RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:20 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 48):
Until you factor in the drive into the city. Say you are going down town, thats at least 40 minutes. European arrivals come in in the morning so probably more like an hour 20 or more at that point. If you were the last off the plane and the line at customs was huge as it would be, it could conceivably be longer than at yyz to get to your destination. YHM also does not have great highway access either.

Lets not assume everyone is going to Downtown Toronto.
While talking about visitors Destinations upon arrival.
I never have understood why YHM doesn't marked itself more to being a good airport for Niagara Fall visitors.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 48):
YHM also does not have great highway access either.

If you call being stuck in Toronto traffic great highway access then by all means it might have YHM beat but just barely. To get to the 403 from
YHM you travel along a 80KM road with 1 stop light which is usually green the
8 kms you drive on it for when going 80km versus 100km is probably a difference of a minute.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:46 pm

Quoting q120 (Reply 39):
yeah it would be nice to see them operating out of YHM.

Why though? Transatlantic been done before, and it didn't work. Anyone remember flyglobespan?

If WS really wants to make this work, they need to go for daily YYZ-LHR. Yes it will probably be a bloodbath to start as AC and BA will try to squeeze them. But I believe there is room in the market for three - both BA and AC could swap 777s for 787s if needed.

Overall that's the route that will be sustainable if WS is taking a long term view. TS has offered year-round service YYZ-LGW for ages now, and it never attracts the same pax who will fly BA or AC at a premium.
 
Viscount724
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RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting by738 (Reply 36):
LGW-GLA-YVR? in a Zoom style?

Operating any route with sectors (even short sectors) where you can't sell local traffic makes no sense. It eats up too much of the costs and would probably make the longhaul sector unprofitable.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 49):
BTW can any of the 737 do YYZ-LON nonstop without payload restrictions?

No, apart from a BBJ with extra tanks.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 53):
If WS really wants to make this work, they need to go for daily YYZ-LHR.

So you want them to spend millions on acquiring what will most likely be a poorly timed slot pair at LHR, and fly YYZ-LHR?

That's exactly what WS should not do!

If there is one airport a WS 767 has to fly to, its LGW. Period!

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 53):
both BA and AC could swap 777s for 787s if needed.

So you're saying once WS does start YYZ-LHR (which it won't), AC and BA should just give in and downgauge equipment?

Makes no sense.

A high density 767 with no proper business class will never be able to force AC or BA to downgauge their metal to LHR.

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 53):
Overall that's the route that will be sustainable if WS is taking a long term view. TS has offered year-round service YYZ-LGW for ages now, and it never attracts the same pax who will fly BA or AC at a premium

Guess what, neither will WS with 260+ seats in their 767 and no proper J cabin.

WS long haul will resemble TS or RV product, not AC or BA. So them flying to LHR makes no sense, at least not in the beginning and not without a proper business class product.

Need I remind you TS tried YYZ-LHR a few years back and pulled out with its tail between its legs!

There is only one way for WS to enter LHR. Let your long haul ops mature, equip one ore two of your 767s ( or by then, 787s) with a proper J cabin, and then maybe, just maybe, you can think about acquiring a slot pair at LHR and starting service. This can certainly not be done in 2016 or 2017. The WS product has to mature and garner attention across the Atlantic first! That will take several years!

[Edited 2015-06-18 19:49:57]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4688
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 55):
WS long haul will resemble TS or RV product, not AC or BA. So them flying to LHR makes no sense, at least not in the beginning and not without a proper business class product.

Need I remind you TS tried YYZ-LHR a few years back and pulled out with its tail between its legs!

To start with, yes. But I'm sure in the long term they have greater ambitions than to be a copy of TS. WS is not a holiday airline like TS is.

We can go on all day about how LGW is a "great" market for longhaul flights, it certainly is for EK! But the facts speak for themselves for other airlines, BA has not significantly expanded LGW (and indeed launched LHR-LAS). There haven't been any US airlines flying there for years. Are they all missing something or is LHR preferred for a reason?

TS ceded their LHR slots to VS who launched LHR-YVR (and also promptly cancelled it), I don't know if you'd call that "tail between the legs". The LHR flights were only twice per week but were always packed when I flew them - it was a great option but lacked the frequency to be truly sucessful.
 
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aerolimani
Posts: 1329
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

RE: WestJet Announces London Gatwick

Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 56):
To start with, yes. But I'm sure in the long term they have greater ambitions than to be a copy of TS. WS is not a holiday airline like TS is.

Perhaps, but until WS is part of an alliance, I don't see how their international flying can be anything more than leisure flying. Perhaps they will join Skyteam someday, and there has been the odd hint that they are headed that way. Until then, I think it's reasonable to assume that their overseas flights will be almost exclusively O&D leisure. For now, I believe we are going to see competition between WS, TS, and AC Rouge. It's going to be interesting watching how this unfolds!

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 56):
There haven't been any US airlines flying there for years. Are they all missing something or is LHR preferred for a reason?

LHR has the connections to the US3's partners. It's as simple as that. On the other hand, LGW is dominated by LCC's who have no agreements with the US carriers.

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