b747400erf
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 18):

Russia is the number 8 exporter in the world. While most of that is oil, there is a lot of freight moving around to support it. I believe AirBridge Cargo is doing a lot of business with freight forwarders.

Russia's exports are 60% oil and gas. I find it hard to believe they need so many freighters for supporting the oil and gas industry and their arms sales. This is probably a large order so the people that negotiated it can get the biggest kickbacks.

They are not very busy:

AN-124 At MCO...Mechanical? (by crownvic Jun 11 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
trex8
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:10 pm

ABC was 23rd in FTK in 2013, they may have moved up the rankings recently but as a comparison, CI (6th) has 18 744Fs in service and yes they do have underbelly cargo on their pax planes also, but they flew 3x more FTKs than ABC in 2013.

That is going to be some incredible expansion if they need another 20 747-8Fs
http://aircargoworld.com/the-top-50-...-east-grows-at-fastest-rate-10005/
 
MKIAZ
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:52 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 47):
I don't think Iran Air will order any of them brand new from Boeing. Because they seem to fly used Classic 747s and obsolete A300s instead of flying current generation aircraft. In 25 or 30 years from now when the 747-8i will be obsolete then maybe they'll pick up ex-Lufthansa or ex-Korean 8is which will be phased out from the initial operators by then. Iran Air is still flying one 747-SP!

They don't fly them for fun, it's because they haven't been allowed to buy anything else. So, they might figure once the sanctions are lifted, order something like the 748 that they can receive quickly in case the sanctions are re-applied in a year or two.
 
Planeflyer
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:58 am

Besides the front loading option what does the -8 do that the 777F wont do. Does the front load option, the larger dimensions and 4 engines allow the 8F to carry large outsize freight?
 
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gennadius
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 51):
ABC was 23rd in FTK in 2013, they may have moved up the rankings recently but as a comparison, CI (6th) has 18 744Fs in service and yes they do have underbelly cargo on their pax planes also, but they flew 3x more FTKs than ABC in 2013.

That is going to be some incredible expansion if they need another 20 747-8Fs
http://aircargoworld.com/the-top-50-...-east-grows-at-fastest-rate-10005/

It's not like the capacity will be dumped into their system all at once, they've been growing pretty steadily, with some of it being from other carriers that are leaving the space or voluntarily giving up marketshare. Just this year so far, they've seen a 16% rise in tonnage, and could already fill 2 more planes than the 14 strong fleet that they are currently running.

If they project that they can continue to grow, and that the 8 744s will eventually be replaced, this may just be a prudent investment at the moment as they likely have the leverage over Boeing in terms of negotiating these orders.

http://theloadstar.co.uk/as-tonnage-...sh-abc-orders-20-747-8-freighters/
Per ardua, ad astra
 
trex8
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:01 am

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 53):
Besides the front loading option what does the -8 do that the 777F wont do. Does the front load option, the larger dimensions and 4 engines allow the 8F to carry large outsize freight?

The nose door allows very long items which cant fit in the side door, NOT taller ones, as the space under the 747s cockpit limits you to 8ft high loads only. Anything behind the cockpit can take a 10ft high load as does most of the 777 main deck though pallets on the 777F are more contoured so volume on say a 96 x125 in pallet on a 747 is 745 cf vs 690 on a 777.
A 777F will carry about 75 % of the payload or volume of a 748F for 25% less fuel and further.
 
Planeflyer
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:41 am

Tex8, thanks so much. These days is the 748F used primarily for such long items?
 
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gennadius
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 56):
These days is the 748F used primarily for such long items?

There are companies that do specialize in that I believe, Cargolux and of course ABC, however anyone that has a 747F can do that to some degree.

I think one of the items for air cargo is that the calculus for how a frame fits within their fleet or overall plan is different than for purely passenger carriers. It is still a case where the extra volume and carrying capacity can make a difference to how their overall route network is structured, and what customers they can go after and retain.
Per ardua, ad astra
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 52):

That's not my quote. Please be careful to use the "Quote Selected Text" button corresponding to the post you are quoting. Thank you!
 
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American 767
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:27 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 58):
That's not my quote.

You're right. It is MY quote. Thanks for pointing that out.
Ben Soriano
 
UA444
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:29 am

A huge and much needed shot in the arm for the queen. Hopefully Boeing can make further improvements that will make it even more attractive for new customers and for the passenger model as well.
 
FighterPilot
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:24 am

Great news for the '47 and Boeing.

Cal   
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
civetfive
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:50 am

I think LH Cargo is a possibility to pick up a few 748Fs also. Big LH already flies the 748I, Boeing wants to keep the line alive, and there's some rumors I've been hearing that there's some interest
 
b747400erf
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting civetfive (Reply 62):


I think LH Cargo is a possibility to pick up a few 748Fs also. Big LH already flies the 748I, Boeing wants to keep the line alive, and there's some rumors I've been hearing that there's some interest

Why would they move to a more expensive platform when the 77X has been so successful for them?
 
PanHAM
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting civetfive (Reply 62):
I think LH Cargo is a possibility to pick up a few 748Fs also. Big LH already flies the 748I, Boeing wants to keep the line alive, and there's some rumors I've been hearing that there's some interest


No intentions whatsoever. Their supervisory board even postponed the over die renewal of the LCC (LH Cargo Center) at FRA. Also, the next Batch of 5 777F is not approved yet.
LH goes for Quality and not quantity. The 777F is the right aircraft for that and the odd requirement for a nose loading flight can be met by chartering a 74F or an 748F.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
r2rho
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:58 am

Great news for the program if firmed. This would really boost the long term viability of the program, and thus bridge the production gap until sufficient 744F's become old enough for retirement. For Volga Dnepr, I don't interpret them all as net expansion, but rather for replacing some 744F's + growth. We could also see a firming up in batches, as the a/c are needed.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:01 am

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
Program around until 2022?

20 frames spread over 7 years gives you a production rate of 2.8 frames per year. To keep the line open until 2022 at current production rate of 1.3 frames per month, Boeing would need 109 additional orders.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:16 am

Hopefully this comes to fruition, but this and the Garuda long haul 'MOU' are on shaky grounds.

Boeing ended up in a net minus widebody position during Paris this year - very strange.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:42 am

Quoting tb727 (Reply 48):
Yep, first time they ever got something that wasn't ancient. The old man has been interested more in 777's from what I have heard. If the price is right though.

3 recent-build 744Fs in the fleet now, supposedly with more being sought.
Now you're flying smart
 
na
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:51 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 66):
20 frames spread over 7 years gives you a production rate of 2.8 frames per year. To keep the line open until 2022 at current production rate of 1.3 frames per month, Boeing would need 109 additional orders.

Boeing recently announed that they would be reducing the production rate soon. With the outstanding orders and a firming up of this Volga-Dnepr deal about 50% of the production until 2022 should be safe.
 
trex8
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RE: Volga-Dnepr Order For 20 747-8s

Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:36 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 56):
These days is the 748F used primarily for such long items?

Its mostly used because some carriers can haul a lot of stuff in one load! While there is undoubtedly some need for that nose door for outsized loads it must be a very small proportion of the freight carried.

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