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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:47 am

China Airlines are commencing TPE-MEL-CHC from 27/10. The CI A330 will be the only airline offering an int'l standard J class on MEL-CHC. Flight timing for MEL-CHC is not particularly attractive to business travellers but CHC-MEL 1950-2140 is sure to attract a lot of travellers away from VA/NZ and QF.
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zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 37):
VA unveils new Premium economy seats:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/revealed-vir...-new-premium-economy-seats-service

Look pretty average, compared to NZ's new product on the 789/772refit.



Did they buy the old two seat pairs from NZ's 744s? removed the foot rest, then put new seat covers on them.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 49):
Talk about underwhelming! After Borghetti's talk of "Business Lite" I would have at least expected leg rests, something that Qantas has offered since Borghetti still worked there! Ditto with the "Premium Parlour". Borghetti oversaw the provision of an identical product to economy class during his tenure at Qantas. All up it is very clear that Qantas will continue to thump Virgin in service quality on their long haul routes.

Lets face it, if you're going to the West on Virgin International you're better off picking Etihad. If you're going East across the Pacific and you have the choice of Delta or VA, you'll fly VA any day. So while their product remains much better than Delta's premium economy offering their pax will choose to fly them.

I'm actually surprised they didn't take a leaf out of Air New Zealands book and improve on that.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:48 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 50):
China Airlines are commencing TPE-MEL-CHC from 27/10. The CI A330 will be the only airline offering an int'l standard J class on MEL-CHC. Flight timing for MEL-CHC is not particularly attractive to business travellers but CHC-MEL 1950-2140 is sure to attract a lot of travellers away from VA/NZ and QF.

Interesting because I would assume that QF will extend its codeshare arrangement with CI to cover the TPE-MEL sector in the same way it now covers SYD & BNE to TPE. Not sure what sort of yield they'll get out of travellers on MEL-CHC, it'll probably be more like a backpacker express with price sensitive pax in all classes. Might hurt JQ a bit but the higher yields, and FF redeemers, will stay with their airline of choice.
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 52):
I'm actually surprised they didn't take a leaf out of Air New Zealands book and improve on that.

They had to keep the share holder happy, otherwise that cheque book might get closed very fast.
 
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qf789
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:00 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 50):
China Airlines are commencing TPE-MEL-CHC from 27/10. The CI A330 will be the only airline offering an int'l standard J class on MEL-CHC. Flight timing for MEL-CHC is not particularly attractive to business travellers but CHC-MEL 1950-2140 is sure to attract a lot of travellers away from VA/NZ and QF.

CI57 TPE-MEL 2330-1150+1 Tues, Fri, Sun
CI57 MEL-CHC1310-1830 Mon, Wed, Sat

CI58 CHC-MEL 1950-2140 Mon, Wed, Sat
CI58 MEL-TPE 2310-535+1 Mon, Wed, Sat

Operates on different days to SYD-CHC-SYD being Tues, Fri and Sun.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-airlin...pei-melbourne-christchurch-flights

[Edited 2015-06-23 00:02:01]
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:06 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 52):
So while their product remains much better than Delta's premium economy offering

Possibly because DL don't offer premium economy? Economy Comfort is regular economy with four extra inches of legroom, and is an buy-up for about $200 rather than a complete separate class of service. As an aside, VA are introducing the same concept per the article.

The TPAC market is competitive, and right now they're positioning themselves below Qantas. That doesn't strike me as a smart strategy to build loyalty.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 51):
Look pretty average, compared to NZ's new product

While the NZ seat definitely looks more "premium" in black leather, NZ and QF basically have identical products in terms of width, recline, footrest etc. The differences between the seats are entirely cosmetic.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:36 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 56):
While the NZ seat definitely looks more "premium" in black leather, NZ and QF basically have identical products in terms of width, recline, footrest etc. The differences between the seats are entirely cosmetic.

Bare in mind that NZ1/2/5/6/7/8 are all operated by the 77W, with feature the SpaceSeat product with is 2-2-2 which has much more space than any other PE product on AUS-USA.
 
jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 52):
If you're going East across the Pacific and you have the choice of Delta or VA, you'll fly VA any day. So while their product remains much better than Delta's premium economy offering their pax will choose to fly them.

Flew Delta a couple of years ago to LAX and the service was excellent and the seat no worse than QF international. The flight was chockers, mainly Americans, but the food was average. Came back on VA and was totally underwhelmed. The flight was half empty which was great for comfort, but the service was non existant and what there was, was delivered by a miserable bunch of flight attendants. Delta was far superior on that trip. Recently went again on QF which was far superior to both DL and VA.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 57):
Bare in mind that NZ1/2/5/6/7/8 are all operated by the 77W, with feature the SpaceSeat product with is 2-2-2 which has much more space than any other PE product on AUS-USA.

The problem with that though is the flight from OZ to AKL, which from SYD is largely 320's or 763's plus the time spent in AKL. Meanwhile if you go non stop you're almost halfway there compared to when you depart AKL in accumulated time. Would rather a slightly lesser product and save hours than going via AKL, unless the cost difference was really significant.
 
AirNiugini
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:28 pm

Thread 123 already! Awesome. I remember my first flight being Ansett AN123... TSV to BNE and SYD... Those were the days.   

Anyway - I was at the airport today around 11am, and noticed VH-OJM touching down from LA. On the flight radar it looks like QF15, QF93 and QF11 were all pretty delayed today. Was there an issue out of LAX the previous day? Or any reason?

QF93 took off around 1pm instead of 9.50am
QF11 took off around 12.25pm instead of 9.50am
QF16 took off around 2pm instead of 10.25am

Thanks  
Its time to fly!
 
bwwt
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:09 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 57):
Bare in mind that NZ1/2/5/6/7/8 are all operated by the 77W, with feature the SpaceSeat product with is 2-2-2 which has much more space than any other PE product on AUS-USA.

Wasn't the whole spaceseat thing a bit of a failure though?
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 58):
The problem with that though is the flight from OZ to AKL, which from SYD is largely 320's or 763's plus the time spent in AKL. Meanwhile if you go non stop you're almost halfway there compared to when you depart AKL in accumulated time. Would rather a slightly lesser product and save hours than going via AKL, unless the cost difference was really significant.

Cost of going via AKL is typically very competitive, specifically from MEL/BNE.

AKL-MEL-AKL NZ123/124 is an Daily 77W
AKL-BNE-AKL NZ135/136 is an Daily 77W
AKL-SYD-AKL NZ103/104 is an Daily 772/789

All of these flights are well time for connections in AKL to/from the North Amercain Services, they all leave AKL at around 9am, and arrive into Auckland at 5.30pm.

Also from the end of October NZ is selling PE on the Tasman, which well see an increase of 772/77W/789 flights as the 763s are pulled back from the SYD/MEL/BNE services.
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:52 pm

Quoting bwwt (Reply 60):
Wasn't the whole spaceseat thing a bit of a failure though?

Product wise it wasn't an failure, operating cost it was.

Hence why the fleet target at the low yielding routes e.g. Asia have been fitted out with the new PE seat rather than the 77W seat. On these routes PE sells for half the price it does on AKL-LAX.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 62):
Product wise it wasn't an failure, operating cost it was.

The initial product was flawed in that the seats were too close together making them uncomfortable to sit in. This was remedied by removing a row and adding space which has made them a great seat with horrible economics.

These seats were hailed as a revolution when they were revealed. That no airline has sought to copy or buy the concept from NZ in the 4 years since tells you how dire the economics are. NZ walking away from it on their 787s only proves the point.
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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:05 pm

Interesting to see QF trying to block publication of a book by former speechwriter for Alan Joyce (and Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson). Speculation appears to centre on the 2011 shutdown of the airline. It is fair to assume that publication would finally lay waste to AJ's always dubious claim that the shutdown was spontaneous rather than meticulously planned.
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zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:21 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 63):
NZ walking away from it on their 787s only proves the point.

2x 77W we're delivered at the same time as the 2x 789, and they had the spaceseat fitted
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:34 pm

QF applying for more seats to Chile. Looks like SCL might go 5pw (at least seasonally anyway).

http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/111-114.pdf
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 64):
It is fair to assume that publication would finally lay waste to AJ's always dubious claim that the shutdown was spontaneous rather than meticulously planned.

Oh, that ol' chestnut. Well, I suppose it had to come up.

I don't care if was spontaneous or planned. I only care about what it achieved - comparative industrial peace, if not harmony, at Qantas.

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777ER
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 59):
QF93 took off around 1pm instead of 9.50amQF11 took off around 12.25pm instead of 9.50amQF16 took off around 2pm instead of 10.25am

Are these the correct times? New Zealand radar went down just before 3pm New Zealand time so maybe the flights were delayed till New Zealand radar was sorted if those times aren't correct, ie the AM supposed to be PM etc
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jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:45 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 61):
AKL-SYD-AKL NZ103/104 is an Daily 772/789

All of these flights are well time for connections in AKL to/from the North Amercain Services, they all leave AKL at around 9am, and arrive into Auckland at 5.30pm.

Also from the end of October NZ is selling PE on the Tasman, which well see an increase of 772/77W/789 flights as the 763s are pulled back from the SYD/MEL/BNE services.

NZ 104 is currently a weekly flight with usually a 772 or 789, the rest of the week is a 320 at present. What are the connection times in AKL coming from the U.S ? Still figure by the time you leave AKL you would be landing in SYD on the non stop flight.

Quoting mariner (Reply 67):
I don't care if was spontaneous or planned. I only care about what it achieved - comparative industrial peace, if not harmony, at Qantas.

That is your observation as an observer, what do you think it brought to the employees of QF at the time ? Knowing a few at the time, it brought nothing but total distrust of senior management and a lowering of moral to probably all time lows Staff who had nothing to do with it were dragged kicking and screaming into it and feared for their jobs both short term and long term. Nothing but a bully boy tactic employed by a management team who weren't capable of negotiating.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 69):
That is your observation as an observer, what do you think it brought to the employees of QF at the time ? Knowing a few at the time, it brought nothing but total distrust of senior management and a lowering of moral to probably all time lows Staff who had nothing to do with it were dragged kicking and screaming into it and feared for their jobs both short term and long term. Nothing but a bully boy tactic employed by a management team who weren't capable of negotiating.

LOL I don't think we need to re-hash this debate on here so lets not.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 64):
Interesting to see QF trying to block publication of a book by former speechwriter for Alan Joyce (and Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson). Speculation appears to centre on the 2011 shutdown of the airline. It is fair to assume that publication would finally lay waste to AJ's always dubious claim that the shutdown was spontaneous rather than meticulously planned.

I think it's fair to assume that this contract speechwriter signed a confidentiality agreement with the people she worked with and those people have a legitimate right to ensure the terms of the contract are adhered to. This happens quite regularly when people go to publish books about their former employers and the outcome will be that QF won't be able to block publication of the book but will be able to see all portions of the book that relate to Qantas prior to publication and, if necessary, seek further legal relief by blocking specific segments which are covered by the confidentiality clause. The Author herself hasn't actually finished the manuscript for the book so really all this is is a publicity exercise to promote her book to people who otherwise probably would have been totally unaware it existed.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:18 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 69):
That is your observation as an observer, what do you think it brought to the employees of QF at the time ?

Of course, it's my observation - I am an observer.

As to what it did to staff at the time, many were already at war with management. I find it bizarre when people don't remember the union "slow bake."

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 69):
Nothing but a bully boy tactic employed by a management team who weren't capable of negotiating.

I thought some of the unions were in full bullying mode and sometimes the only way to respond to bullying is with similar tactics.

The point is that the grounding stopped the union disruptions, stone cold dead. As a strong union man I'm sorry that it had to come to that but as an equally strong supporter of what AJ was doing, I don't think anything else would have worked half as effectively.

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bwwt
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:21 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 69):
NZ 104 is currently a weekly flight with usually a 772 or 789, the rest of the week is a 320 at present. What are the connection times in AKL coming from the U.S ? Still figure by the time you leave AKL you would be landing in SYD on the non stop flight.

Yup, AKL adds about 3 hours onto the journey each way.
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:32 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 69):
NZ 104 is currently a weekly flight with usually a 772 or 789, the rest of the week is a 320 at present. What are the connection times in AKL coming from the U.S ? Still figure by the time you leave AKL you would be landing in SYD on the non stop flight.

From October its going 1x weekly with an 789 and 6x weekly with an 772.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:56 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 70):
LOL I don't think we need to re-hash this debate on here so lets not.

  
 
benjjk
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 59):
Anyway - I was at the airport today around 11am, and noticed VH-OJM touching down from LA. On the flight radar it looks like QF15, QF93 and QF11 were all pretty delayed today. Was there an issue out of LAX the previous day? Or any reason?

QF93 took off around 1pm instead of 9.50am
QF11 took off around 12.25pm instead of 9.50am
QF16 took off around 2pm instead of 10.25am

I did notice on Monday night that pretty much all of the Pacific flights from LA were delayed for between 30 and 120 minutes. No idea why.
 
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qf789
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:27 am

VA will temporarily suspend SYD-AUH while 77W get refurbs from 27 October to 16 December 2015 and 2 February 2016 to 6 April 2016. EY will help fill in gaps during this time.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austr...o-suspend-sydney-abu-dhabi-flights
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TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 76):
VA will temporarily suspend SYD-AUH while 77W get refurbs from 27 October to 16 December 2015 and 2 February 2016 to 6 April 2016. EY will help fill in gaps during this time.

That is a long suspension (though I am sure necessary). Surely wont be long until it disappears completely...
 
jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:38 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 61):
AKL-SYD-AKL NZ103/104 is an Daily 772/789
Quoting zkncj (Reply 73):
From October its going 1x weekly with an 789 and 6x weekly with an 772.

So for 6 months of the year the best connecting flight ex SYD is on a 320.

I realise that NZ probably get more connection traffic out of MEL and BNE than SYD, but you would still need to be loyal to the airline to choose that option. For SFO,YVR and soon IAH, I could understand the option, but not LAX.



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 70):
LOL I don't think we need to re-hash this debate on here so lets not.

Yet every thread we have, the topic gets mentioned !!
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 78):
So for 6 months of the year the best connecting flight ex SYD is on a 320.

NZ is currently down an 772, due to refits so doesn't have the fleet capacity during the day to spare an 772 at the moment. The 772/77W are heavily used during the day on short-hual routes like MEL/BNE/NAN/RAR, and certain SYD services.

In October will 8x 772s will be refitted and back in service
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:09 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 79):

Nothing to do with refits just demand NZ run 2 daily 772s AKL-SYD in summer. Im surprised they use a 320 in winter though but like I say its a demand thing.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:25 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 78):
Yet every thread we have, the topic gets mentioned !!

The fact that someone mentions something does not necessarily call for a whole new debate on the same old facts with, ultimately, precisely the same outcome as last time. The positions of everyone here are well known so I'm sure we can find other things to discuss.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 59):
Anyway - I was at the airport today around 11am, and noticed VH-OJM touching down from LA. On the flight radar it looks like QF15, QF93 and QF11 were all pretty delayed today. Was there an issue out of LAX the previous day? Or any reason?

QF93 took off around 1pm instead of 9.50am
QF11 took off around 12.25pm instead of 9.50am
QF16 took off around 2pm instead of 10.25am

Thanks

I believe QF94 went tech evening prior with QF18, QF12, QF QF16 holding and picking up the slack.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 81):
I'm sure we can find other things to discuss.

Precisely!

& other news NH looking at commencing Tokyo - Sydney services this year according to AUS BT

http://www.ausbt.com.au/ana-aims-to-...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

Turkish Airlines to launch Istanbul-Sydney flights in mid-2016

EXCLUSIVE | Turkish Airlines will begin flights between Istanbul and Sydney next year, with Melbourne to follow, airline CEO Temel Kotil has confirmed to Australian Business Traveller.

The flights are slated to begin in the northern summer, "in June", Kotil said. "We are coming, and that's final final."

Singapore, Bangkok, Jakarta and even the Maldives – all currently served by Turkish Airlines – are shortlisted as the stopover cities, with Turkish abandoning hopes of a non-stop flight of some 17 hours.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/turkish-airl...ws-articleleft

EK413

[Edited 2015-06-24 02:58:31]
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
AeroplaneFreak
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:46 am

Does anyone have any news on the new Melbourne runway? When is construction scheduled to begin?
 
Thai77w
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:25 pm

As per another thread and reported by a few online articles, MH is exiting BNE effective 9th AUG.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
81819
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:26 pm

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 69):
That is your observation as an observer, what do you think it brought to the employees of QF at the time ? Knowing a few at the time, it brought nothing but total distrust of senior management and a lowering of moral to probably all time lows Staff who had nothing to do with it were dragged kicking and screaming into it and feared for their jobs both short term and long term. Nothing but a bully boy tactic employed by a management team who weren't capable of negotiating.

I have a different recollection of events. On top of that my understanding of the unions involved was that have always been quite militant.

Considering the mood at the time those events probably had to come so that they could pass. QANTAS have now turned the corner and it looks like they business (not AJ) is now in a position to expand its operations by ordering new planes.

If I was an employee of QANTAS these are the signs that would give me comfort that my job was secure.
 
bwwt
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:44 pm

Quoting thai77w (Reply 85):
MH

And here is the link.

http://www.airlinehubbuzz.com/malays...ines-set-suspend-brisbane-flights/

Sad, but not unexpected. It makes BNE more appealing for D7 now!
 
TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:58 pm

http://www.airlinehubbuzz.com/melbourne-qantas-call-centre-closes/

It would now appear I will not be able to talk to Hobart based QF staff about any bookings (I am not a silver member, just a pleb) . Oh well, no more "tassie" lingo, now its going to be the "kiwi" lingo, just love how they say six. I have a number of kiwi friends, a delight to know.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:53 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 83):
& other news NH looking at commencing Tokyo - Sydney services this year according to AUS BT

I just posted this in the other thread but it's probably worthwhile posting here, this is the current available rights to Turkey:

-------
AVAILABLE CAPACITY
:
PASSENGER SERVICES:
Five (5) frequencies weekly (in total) with any aircraft type on the specified routes,
provided that no more than three (3) weekly services are operated to any one point in
Turkey.
-------

Given the significant liberalisation which will need to occur, I wonder what Australia will get in return for opening up the treaty?

Quoting bwwt (Reply 87):
Sad, but not unexpected. It makes BNE more appealing for D7 now!

Sad but not unexpected. It really was unfortunate timing for the Malaysian Treaty to receive such a large capacity boost when it did. It's one of the best examples of why such large capacity increases need to be better managed and, indeed, the Chinese looked to have learned from that in how they are allowing their airlines to gradually increase capacity into Australia.
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1994
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 89):
Given the significant liberalisation which will need to occur, I wonder what Australia will get in return for opening up the treaty?

What can Turkey offer that is of value to Australia? Perhaps they could talk to some of their fellow EU members and do some sort of 3 way deal. Maybe France?
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:41 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...tstar-flights-20150624-ghwadq.html

QF points to be given to all fare classes for JQ NZ flights. Looks more like QantasLink than JQ!
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 89):
Given the significant liberalisation which will need to occur, I wonder what Australia will get in return for opening up the treaty?

The treaty only needs to be revisited if a carrier from one side or the other lobbies for increased rights, i.e. if TK pushes for daily. In which case Australia's negotiating position would probably commence with daily and perhaps a relaxation of the "no more than three weekly services are operated to any one point in Turkey".

As an aside, does someone more cluey than me in these things know whether a 'point' means a city or a single airport? For example, is Istanbul as a whole one point in Turkey, or is Istanbul/Ataturk one point and Istanbul/Sabiha Gokcen another?
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 83):
NH looking at commencing Tokyo - Sydney services this year according to AUS BT

From the article you linked NH has all but said it's definite - "if it can't be [northern] winter it will be [northern] summer 2016". Very exciting, can't wait for the announcement!
 
zkncj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 91):
QF points to be given to all fare classes for JQ NZ flights. Looks more like QantasLink than JQ!

To bad they closed all the Domestic Qantas Clubs in New Zealand, or does this mean we could see an return?

Only problem would be the space that used to be it in AKL/CHC is now gone!
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 90):
What can Turkey offer that is of value to Australia? Perhaps they could talk to some of their fellow EU members and do some sort of 3 way deal. Maybe France?

Turkey isn't part of the EU yet. If it was, then any expansion of the bilateral would be caught up in the current EU negotiations which are basically going nowhere. The EU isn't interested in doling out more rights to Australian Carriers even though, taking the French Agreement as an example, both National Governments have wanted a relaxation for some time.

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 92):
The treaty only needs to be revisited if a carrier from one side or the other lobbies for increased rights, i.e. if TK pushes for daily. In which case Australia's negotiating position would probably commence with daily and perhaps a relaxation of the "no more than three weekly services are operated to any one point in Turkey".

If TK gets daily then Australian Carriers would receive the same rights in return. I'm more interest in stopover and 5th freedom rights.

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 92):
As an aside, does someone more cluey than me in these things know whether a 'point' means a city or a single airport? For example, is Istanbul as a whole one point in Turkey, or is Istanbul/Ataturk one point and Istanbul/Sabiha Gokcen another?

Point generally refers to a City. For example in our treaties "points" are generally referred to as Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth etc.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:26 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 95):
Turkey isn't part of the EU yet.

Totally correct. Not totally geared up this morning it seems!

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 95):
I'm more interest in stopover and 5th freedom rights.

But will an Australian carrier want these rights? Its being discussed in the TK thread that their aircraft don't yet have the legs to get here one stop economically. QF and VA don't really either. And then if you have them, where are you going to fly to with the 5th freedoms? DXB and AUH seem to be doing ok for both QF and VA, and I don't see either of them swapping to IST and TK.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:51 am

AI309 MEL-DEL has been forced to return to MEL after dumping fuel. No reason for return known at this stage.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:10 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 97):
AI309 MEL-DEL has been forced to return to MEL after dumping fuel. No reason for return known at this stage.

A couple of cases like this lately from MEL, with both MH and now AI in recent weeks.

Hadn't heard about this one. Thanks for the info.
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 123

Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 96):

But will an Australian carrier want these rights? Its being discussed in the TK thread that their aircraft don't yet have the legs to get here one stop economically. QF and VA don't really either. And then if you have them, where are you going to fly to with the 5th freedoms? DXB and AUH seem to be doing ok for both QF and VA, and I don't see either of them swapping to IST and TK.

Probably not but that's beside point. You never know in future who may want what so it's imperative on our Government to extract the best deal they can just in case.  

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