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Laddie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:19 pm

NG263 wrote:
These are not pictures of an RTO but apparently from a departure. LN1523 was ferried to San Antonio for storage today, see:https://twitter.com/woody2190/status/786968957773189120


Ferry flight: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE77
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:21 pm

Why San Antonio for storage and not joining the other 747s at Pinal Airpark?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Laddie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:28 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Why San Antonio for storage and not joining the other 747s at Pinal Airpark?


I dunno. It wasn't my decision!
 
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Stitch
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:52 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Why San Antonio for storage and not joining the other 747s at Pinal Airpark?


Maybe not storage, but VIP conversion? ST Aerospace bought DRB Aviation's VIP outfitting business at San Antonio and they can handle 747s (though the biggest they have handled have been narrowbody BBJs and ACJs).

Boeing also does MRO work for the USAF there, so maybe they're going to use it as a template for the VC-25 replacement program?
 
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747classic
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:05 am

Stitch wrote:
Boeing also does MRO work for the USAF there, so maybe they're going to use it as a template for the VC-25 replacement program


The Boeing Company’s Global Services & Support (GS&S) San Antonio business unit performed 747-8F change incorporation at 747-8F test aircraft, starting in 2011.

AFAIK both Transaero NTU 747-8's will be stored to free parking space at Everett together with better storage conditions.
After all legal procedures have been finished (ownership and sale-export to Iran) and all required (spare) parts are available, all the required work can be performed at Lackland AFB, San Antonio.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:34 pm

Some interesting first pictures of L/N 1538, KAL #9 and L/N 1539, KAL #10 in early assembly stage appeared on Flickr.
All were made during the Boeing Media Day at June 20 2016

L/N 1538, Vertical stabilizer plus rudder
Image

L/N 1539, section 41 (nose)
Image

All Original uploaded by Jon Ostrower (flightblogger), for more 747-8 pictures see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/page2
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
SCAT15F
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:44 pm

Which L/N's are designated for Arik Air?
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:37 pm

No L/Ns allocated for the Arik frames and they are unlikely to be built.

Geoff
 
SCAT15F
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:15 am

Ah. Thanks. Wonder why they are still counted towards the order total?

Also the 20 frame order for Volga Dnepr; is that firm or just a LOI?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:20 am

SCAT15F wrote:
Ah. Thanks. Wonder why they are still counted towards the order total?


Because Arik Air has yet to formally cancel them or if they are in breach of the sales contract, Boeing is still working to cancel it.


SCAT15F wrote:
Also the 20 frame order for Volga Dnepr; is that firm or just a LOI?


A mix of both. I believe 4 of the 20 have already been delivered and Volga Depner will firm the others on an as-needed basis.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:52 am

747classic wrote:
gennadius wrote:
Also, what is the lead time for a new build 747-8i? Just under 2 years?


Because the 747-8 is 100% digital the aircraft lead time is less then one year, IIRC 8-9 months.


Can you explain why "Because the 747-8 is 100% digital" means a shorter build time? I'm missing something.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:55 am

Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it? Boeing must be making some sort of promise, because no one wants to buy an orphan airplane.
 
NG263
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:23 am

LN1537 has been moved from tower storage back to the flightline and the engine mounts have been partially cleared of tape

Image

property of Woodys Aeroimages: https://www.flickr.com/photos/woodysaer ... 9768705934
 
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Laddie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:24 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it? Boeing must be making some sort of promise, because no one wants to buy an orphan airplane.


As long as there are Boeing airplanes flying, Boeing supports them.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:18 am

Laddie wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it? Boeing must be making some sort of promise, because no one wants to buy an orphan airplane.


As long as there are Boeing airplanes flying, Boeing supports them.


Boeing supports the Model 247, or the Stearman, the DC-8, or the even the 747-SP?

I'm willing to be educated, but it's hard to believe that every part of a DC-8 or 747-SP can still be purchased at an economical price.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:25 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it?

As long as there are passenger or freighter 748s flying Boeing will support them. The OEMs derive a substantial part of their income in after-sales business. And considering the last 748i frames off the line will likely be AF1s, spare parts for them will be available for a long time to come.


kitplane01 wrote:
I'm willing to be educated, but it's hard to believe that every part of a DC-8 or 747-SP can still be purchased at an economical price.

The DC-8 is not a Boeing... ;) ...and no one said 747SP parts could be had cheaply. That is how they make their money. :)
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Stitch
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:59 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Laddie wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it? Boeing must be making some sort of promise, because no one wants to buy an orphan airplane.


As long as there are Boeing airplanes flying, Boeing supports them.


Boeing supports the Model 247?


Well the only one in a flyable condition was delivered to the Museum of Flight in April of this year and put on permanent display and the other three are not flyable so support for that model is likely no longer necessary. :)
 
GARUDAROD
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:51 pm

Is this an actual aircraft? https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... 3747_o.jpg
This would be on sharp looking bird!!!
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piotrg
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:02 pm

No, it isn't.
 
Planesmart
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:36 pm

The ability to keep modern aircraft flying commercially is influenced by parts (prices and availability), and increasingly, by software support.

Manufacturers, including engine OEM's, use pricing to encourage operators to retain, and then eventually dispose of their aircraft.

Boeing and Airbus replicate global software manufacturers, who withdraw 'general' product support, but are willing to enter into one to one partnerships for major clients, at a price. The canniest global airlines and leasing companies, incorporate parts and software support in purchase contracts, both availability and pricing.

A factor for commercial aircraft manufacturers is the need to maintain product liability insurance so long as an aircraft is in commercial service.

As Airbus did for the A340 and A380, I would be confident LH replicated buybacks with their 748 purchases, incorporating 'trigger' events such as model cancellation within X years following delivery. They would definitely have 'hard' priced parts and support in the contract.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:39 am

Devilfish wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it?

As long as there are passenger or freighter 748s flying Boeing will support them. The OEMs derive a substantial part of their income in after-sales business. And considering the last 748i frames off the line will likely be AF1s, spare parts for them will be available for a long time to come.


kitplane01 wrote:
I'm willing to be educated, but it's hard to believe that every part of a DC-8 or 747-SP can still be purchased at an economical price.

The DC-8 is not a Boeing... ;) ...and no one said 747SP parts could be had cheaply. That is how they make their money. :)


These days a DC-8 *is* Boeing. So is a DC-9 and a DC-10.

More seriously, can one really buy from Boeing all the parts needed for a 747-SP? And software support, and database updates, and updates to the technical manuals, and NextGen transponders, and ....
 
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kanban
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:16 am

Per kitplane01 "More seriously, can one really buy from Boeing all the parts needed for a 747-SP? And software support, and database updates, and updates to the technical manuals, and NextGen transponders, and .."

Boeing supports spare-able parts and services.. not every part. if a 747SP needed a replacement skin or ribs and stringers or wing skins.. you're out of luck unless you can find a plane in the desert to scavenge from (it will still have to be refurbed and pass regulatory criteria) fortunately for you there are many common parts with the -100,-200, -300 and -400...
 
Noshow
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:23 am

Boeing itself used 2nd hand 747 SP tails for their Dreamlifters.
 
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RobK
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:06 am

Gentlemen, could you take your OEM parts discussion to another thread please. Thanks.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:17 am

Some activity around LN 1533. According to Chris Edwards there was an APU run tonight.

Image
Silk Way West Airlines Boeing 747-83QF - C/N 62708 / LN 1533 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
spacecookie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:20 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
Anyone have any idea how long a 747-8 will still have parts and technical support available for it? Boeing must be making some sort of promise, because no one wants to buy an orphan airplane.


as the 747-8 is still in production, and got more orders for it this years than the other ULA

the queen will never be orphan. (not in the near future)
 
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747classic
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:45 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Some activity around LN 1533.


Silkway West delivery of L/N 1533 is scheduled for the first half of 2017, see : http://cargofacts.com/silk-way-west-gains-traction/
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
NG263
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:33 pm

747classic wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Some activity around LN 1533.


Silkway West delivery of L/N 1533 is scheduled for the first half of 2017, see : http://cargofacts.com/silk-way-west-gains-traction/


Really? The intial APU run just took place so first flight should be in the coming week. That would probably mean that she would go into short term storage like LN1528 aswell.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:29 am

Well it still needs to be painted. Perhaps it will fly to VCV for paint.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
NG263
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:12 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Well it still needs to be painted. Perhaps it will fly to VCV for paint.


Yeah, but it's not a Terrible Teen, so painting should not take longer than 2 weeks
 
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747classic
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:29 pm

Qatar's former emir, Sheikh Khalifa bin Hamad al-Thani died on Sunday, aged 84

He owned two 747 aircraft :

VP-BAT, a 747SP for sale since January 2016 : See : http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... del/747-sp

VQ-BSK, a 747-8BBJ

Aircraft data : L/N 1468 - 747-8ZV, RC008,serial number 42096, Lessor : Worldwide Aircraft Holding Company – Bermuda, Customer : Former Emir of Qatar (Sheikh Khalifa bin Hamad bin Abdullah bin Jassim bin Muhammed Al Thani), registration VQ-BSK (VQ-B = Bermuda / SK = Sheikh Khalifa), full “old style Qatar “livery, Roll-out November 08-2012, F/F December 13 2012, Delivery date December 20-2012, Delivery flight (VQBSK-CYVR-KSKF) date December 21-2012. VVIP cabin outfitting by Greenpoint Technologies at San Antonio (TX). At the same location also an elevator system (Aerolift) and an Aeroloft modification kit has been installed. First test flight performed at October 22 2014. Delivery after cabin outfitting : December 24 2014. Delivery flight Lackland AFB, San Antonio (KSKF) -Bournemouth ( EGHH) January 15 2015.
.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Laddie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:44 pm

Good news for the 747-8. I presume this order will be white tails plus new airplanes.

News Release Issued: Oct 27, 2016 (9:35am EDT)

To view this release online and get more information about Boeing, visit: http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s ... tem=129795
Boeing, UPS Announce Order for 14 747-8 Freighters

Airplanes will support carrier’s fleet expansion plans

EVERETT, Wash., Oct. 27, 2016 – Boeing [NYSE: BA] and UPS [NYSE: UPS] today announced an order for 14 747-8 Freighters. The agreement also includes an option to purchase an additional 14 of the cargo airplanes.

“These aircraft are a strategic investment for increased capacity for UPS customers around the globe,” said Brendan Canavan, president, UPS Airlines. “The 747-8 will allow UPS to upsize our network in both new and existing markets.”

The 747-8 Freighter is the world’s most efficient freighter, providing cargo operators the lowest operating costs and best economics of any large freighter on the market. With its iconic nose door, the airplane has 16 percent more revenue cargo volume than the 747-400F. The airplane also reduces the noise footprint around an airport by 30 percent compared to its predecessor.

"UPS could not have selected a better aircraft to meet its growing business needs," said Brad McMullen, vice president, Sales, North America and Leasing, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "We’ve continued to make the 747-8 Freighter even better, and we look forward to seeing UPS introduce it to its fleet."

With 109 747-8 passenger and freighter airplanes delivered to customers around the globe, the fleet is performing with the highest dispatch reliability and utilization of any four-engine airplane in service.

UPS is a global leader in logistics, offering a broad range of solutions including transporting packages and freight; facilitating international trade, and deploying advanced technology to more efficiently manage the world of business. Headquartered in Atlanta, UPS serves more than 220 countries and territories worldwide.
 
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Silkway748
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Laddie wrote:
Good news for the 747-8. I presume this order will be white tails plus new airplanes.


Excellent news! Thanks for sharing :!:
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:51 pm

I suppose LN 1535 and 1540 might go to UPS?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Laddie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:46 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
I suppose LN 1535 and 1540 might go to UPS?


Boeing claims all 14 airframes are new builds. That surprises me too.

OK, assuming that is true, let's try this one on for size: two former Transaero airplanes that Boeing now owns (1519 and 1523) will become Air Force Ones. Wouldn't that be wonderfully ironic? Former Russian airplanes fly the Stars & Stripes and carry the POTUS instead.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:48 pm

Laddie wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
I suppose LN 1535 and 1540 might go to UPS?


Boeing claims all 14 airframes are new builds. That surprises me too.


Well technically LN 1535 and 1540 are new builds, fresh from the assembly line.

OK, assuming that is true, let's try this one on for size: two former Transaero airplanes that Boeing now owns (1519 and 1523) will become Air Force Ones. Wouldn't that be wonderfully ironic? Former Russian airplanes fly the Stars & Stripes and carry the POTUS instead.


:D
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
NG263
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:27 pm

There is also LN1437 left. That one has basically no hours and is only 3.5 years old. Any chance for UPS to pick that one up aswel?
 
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Laddie
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:35 pm

NG263 wrote:
There is also LN1437 left. That one has basically no hours and is only 3.5 years old. Any chance for UPS to pick that one up aswel?


They could, but Boeing is sticking to their story that all 14 jets will be new-builds.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:59 pm

NG263 wrote:
There is also LN1437 left. That one has basically no hours and is only 3.5 years old. Any chance for UPS to pick that one up aswel?


Unlikely as LN 1437 is overweight and built to a different customer standard. Why would UPS take an oddball in the fleet? Same reason why LH never took LN 1435.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
NG263
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:04 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
NG263 wrote:
There is also LN1437 left. That one has basically no hours and is only 3.5 years old. Any chance for UPS to pick that one up aswel?


Unlikely as LN 1437 is overweight and built to a different customer standard. Why would UPS take an oddball in the fleet? Same reason why LH never took LN 1435.


True, it's just so sad to see such a new jet sitting in the desert and not flying and delivering freight to places all over the world. I didn't even know it was overweight?
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:17 pm

I expect that at this point 1435 and 1437 will suffer the same fate as 787 LN 5. Both the customer and Boeing are best served by filling customer orders with newer builds. The only hope would be to sell 1437 at a very large discount to an existing operator of early 747-8Fs who could integrate it into the fleet without difficulty. I don't see how 1435 gets sold at all; none of the passenger operators would want it, and there are at least two better, later build BBJ frames on the market.

The $300M or so that those aircraft represent in inventory will likely have to be written off at some point.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:26 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I expect that at this point 1435 and 1437 will suffer the same fate as 787 LN 5. Both the customer and Boeing are best served by filling customer orders with newer builds. The only hope would be to sell 1437 at a very large discount to an existing operator of early 747-8Fs who could integrate it into the fleet without difficulty. I don't see how 1435 gets sold at all; none of the passenger operators would want it, and there are at least two better, later build BBJ frames on the market.

The $300M or so that those aircraft represent in inventory will likely have to be written off at some point.


They might already have been with the two write-offs this year.
 
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piotrg
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:35 pm

I don't think so, both frames are refurbished to production standard so keeping them on desert is better option. Do not forget that last 2 747-400Fs which were not taken up by LoadAir Cargo suffered the same fate until Boeing sold them to Kalitta and Cargolux.
LN4 and LN5 were different story, both still needed re-work/refurbishment to certification standard what required hard cash investment.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:01 am

piotrg wrote:
I don't think so, both frames are refurbished to production standard so keeping them on desert is better option. Do not forget that last 2 747-400Fs which were not taken up by LoadAir Cargo suffered the same fate until Boeing sold them to Kalitta and Cargolux.


That makes sense for 1437, but not for 1435, which has a much smaller and more quality-sensitive pool of potential operators.

I think Boeing's best opportunities for 1435 were 1) to sell it to Royal Air Maroc as a 744 replacement, or 2) to sell it to Air China as the convertible passenger/VIP frame, since that frame is nonstandard in the Air China fleet anyway. Neither happened and I don't see where it could go.
 
SCAT15F
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:26 am

I'm confused. Are the 16 frames (+ 4 already delivered?) for Volga Dnepr not a firm order? I thought 2015 was the LOI and 2016 Farnborough was the firm-up, yet none of these aircraft are included in any kind of official order tally...
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:50 am

Volga Dnepr / ABC seem to firm up the orders as they take them. If you want to know the 'official' orders status you need to check Boeing's website.

Geoff
 
NG263
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:33 am

Yes, the future of 1435 is really uncertain. I still hope that the Iran Air order will be for already built aircraft. The two UN NTU's are likely to be part of this order, but what about LN1446 Saudi Government NTU, currently stored in BSL and LN1495 Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight NTU, currently stored in MZJ. I just don't see any other VIP customers for such a large frame out there. The gulf states all have one, besides Bahrain, but they have two fairly young 744's of which one was just taken over from Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight last year, and Dubai Air Wing. They have 3 VIP 744's in their fleet of which one is already 25+ years old, so maybe they would take one up. Not many more head of states operate the 744 as a presidential aircraft. Japan are replacing them with 777's, China with a 747-8 and Korea with a 15 year old frame, which is too 'new' to be replaced. These are the only ones I can think of at the moment, although it may be possible that I forgot one or two. Anybody seeing any other option where these two frames could find 'a new home'?

EDIT: I forgot Morocco Government with a 744 that was just taken over from Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight, so unlikely for a 748 and Air India who operate a 747 with a normal configuration for the head of state, if necessary
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:46 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:02 pm

NG263 wrote:
Not many more head of states operate the 744 as a presidential aircraft. Japan are replacing them with 777's, China with a 747-8 and Korea with a 15 year old frame, which is too 'new' to be replaced.


South Korea has also recently taken delivery of a 787 VIP.
 
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gennadius
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Re: Official 747-8 Flight Tracking/Production Part 24

Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:52 pm

Stitch wrote:
NG263 wrote:
Not many more head of states operate the 744 as a presidential aircraft. Japan are replacing them with 777's, China with a 747-8 and Korea with a 15 year old frame, which is too 'new' to be replaced.


South Korea has also recently taken delivery of a 787 VIP.


Interestingly, this article popped up today, covering this exact topic. I'm not sure if it is up-to-date or not, but an interesting list at the very least.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... nt-onboard
Per ardua, ad astra

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