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aaexecplat
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 142):
But that is woefully untrue. We need a red alarm in this thread that goes off everytime someone tries this BS.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/airfares..._price_index/html/AnnualFares.html

We need a BS alarm everyone tries your strategy. Note the following language in the table you linked to:

"...Fares include only the price paid at the time of the ticket purchase and do not include other fees paid at the airport or onboard the aircraft..."

That means any of the ancillary revenue the airlines generate from bag fees, seat choice, meals, entertainment, etc is NOT included in the analysis you posted. So the REAL cost of airfare is significantly higher for just about every "Ma and Pa kettle" than the numbers you chose to trot out.

And that still ignores the economic reality of most Americans who have to pay these fares. Namely that the median and average household incomes have declined since 2000 for just about every strata of society and more severely so as one is less endowed in the wealth department.

Quoting commavia (Reply 145):
They're paying more - not "twice as much" - not to be "bent over the barrel" but rather to pay what it actually costs to operate an airline plus generate a risk-appropriate return for investors. The only reason we're even having this conversation is because consumers had such a good deal - too good a deal - for too long, and only now are being forced to actually behave like consumers in every other industry, which have to pay what it costs plus a reasonable margin.

Not sure if you understand what I am saying....when I am talking about "being bent over a barrel" I am talking about consumers experiencing the penny pinching ways of the airlines and hating it. Like running ultra high load factors and not being able to accommodate pax in case of IRROPS. I am 1k on UA and last week during Tropcal Storm Bill, my flight was cancelled and UA couldn't find me a single acceptable itinerary to my destination on the same day...and I have a huge advantage over most folks flying UA in a case like that. And for those who don't sleep on airport floors in YYR or BFS, they read about it far too often and eventually it becomes folklore.

What I am saying is that IF the airlines at least made a sincere effort to provide comfortable, friendly and reliable air service at all times, nobody would bat an eye at paying more for flying. But consumers feel they pay more AND get far less value and comfort (been on any of the slimlined aircraft of the US3 in the way back lately?) combined with airlines and its employees that don't care about them, so they rebel.

And it doesn't matter whether t's true or not. What matters is perception and influence. And if the airlines go too far, no amount of reason will hinder legislation getting passed.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 149):
re there some large markets where the third carrier is "circuitous?" Are you thinking of stuff like SAT-ABQ, where DL is a poor option (but WN, AA and UA are not).

Short markets like PHX-LAS/SAN/SAT/ELP/ABQ/AUS would fit your criteria, where a connection wouldn't really be viable time or price wise and there are only 2 carriers. I'm sure there are a number of those markets on the East coast. DCA-LGA could be included depending how you define DC and NY. I'm sure there are a number of intra SE routes from ATL or CLT that fit the criteria just not sure of O&D numbers.
 
commavia
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 147):
Finally after decades of mismanagement, reckless capital spending, and reckless growth.

... and "reckless" regulatory policies that likely prevented the industry from consolidating decades earlier.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 147):
The NTSB granted a number of loans to airlines in the wake of 2001.

I believe you're referring to the ATSB, and the "number of loans" that were made were not only few, but also rather small, with by far the largest - to my knowledge - going to America West. The most notable, and largest, proposal for an ATSB loan was from United - and that loan was turned down.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 148):
The airline industry is a only facilitator of a healthy economy. It's not a driver of it, so you want costs to be as low as possible.

The airline industry is not a "driver," but is a "facilitator," of a healthy economy. Okay.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 148):
With that in mind, on a macro scale you do not want passengers spending more than the cost of the operating the airline plus enough profit for the airline to invest in advanced technology to lower the cost of doing business. Any profit beyond that is detrimental to the macro economy. I believe we have gone well past that healthy point.

Okay - fine - so then taking the above thinking to its logical conclusion, the solution is to nationalize the airlines and have them be funding by the government. If you effectively tell the providers of capital that their profit is capped and it will be impossible for them to derive a level of return commensurate with the risk they're providing, they'll simply stop providing said capital. And then airlines will have nowhere else to turn for funding by the federal government. And of course we all know how amazing the federal government is at provide efficient, high-quality service ...

Quoting AAexecplat (Reply 150):
What matters is perception and influence. And if the airlines go too far, no amount of reason will hinder legislation getting passed.

Well, once again - when that "perception and influence" leads to "legislation getting passed' that re-regulated the industry, get back to us on whether that leads to fares going up or down.

[Edited 2015-06-22 12:38:51]
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 152):
The airline industry is not a "driver," but is a "facilitator," of a healthy economy. Okay.

Yep. That doesn't mean it's not important though.

Quoting commavia (Reply 152):
Okay - fine - so then taking the above thinking to its logical conclusion, the solution is to nationalize the airlines and have them be funding by the government. If you effectively tell the providers of capital that their profit is capped and it will be impossible for them to derive a level of return commensurate with the risk they're providing, they'll simply stop providing said capital. And then airlines will have nowhere else to turn for funding by the federal government. And of course we all know how amazing the federal government is at provide efficient, high-quality service ...

Now you just went off the deep end. Unfortunately this is not an industry where investors should expect large returns. There's a happy medium in the industry. We just went from one negative end of the spectrum to the other in the past 10-15 years.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 151):
Short markets like PHX-LAS/SAN/SAT/ELP/ABQ/AUS would fit your criteria, where a connection wouldn't really be viable time or price wise and there are only 2 carriers. I'm sure there are a number of those markets on the East coast.

Okay. Which of those markets were meaningfully more competitive 10 years ago?
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 154):
Which of those markets were meaningfully more competitive 10 years ago?

I would say all of them under HP before the US merger, due to HP's reliance on PHX O&D. US can flow connecting traffic from the network at large and charge higher prices for O&D. If the rumored PHX draw down happens then these markets will be less competitive and potential WN monopolies.
 
commavia
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 153):
Now you just went off the deep end.

Right.   

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 153):
Unfortunately this is not an industry where investors should expect large returns.

Fine, then the industry should not expect much investment.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 153):
We just went from one negative end of the spectrum to the other in the past 10-15 years.

I continue to find it remarkable that anyone things that where we are now in terms of profitability (7-14%) represents the "negative" - or opposite - "end of the spectrum" to where we were in the 2000s. I continue to believe 7-14% is entirely reasonable.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:33 pm

This discussion hear touches a lot of things, but it bypasses mostly the main question. It does not matter if the airlines earn money or not, not if there are one or two or three airlines competing on each route. Not even if they make heaps of money. Not if they offer good or bad service.
The question is, did some airlines agree with each other on pursuing capacity control. If yes, than it is illegal behavior.

[Edited 2015-06-22 14:07:22]
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 135):
I do not want any individual party or entity, especially a politician or unelected bureaucrat, determining what the nebulous, dubiously-definable alleged "overall benefit" to the traveling public is and subordinating shareholders' property rights to it.

  

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 157):
The question is, did some airlines agree with each other on pursuing capacity control.

The planning and revenue management departments have all come to the conclusion that chasing market share by adding capacity - without ensuring that extra capacity is actually profitable - is a terrible idea.

So they're all exercising capacity control discipline to ensure they're operating profitably - as is their fiduciary responsibility - and speak of it when discussing their financials publicly.

That's not collusion, that's following industry best practices.

Unfortunately you have some misguided souls who believe that following what are now established best practices is tantamount to collusion, and that's hogwash.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Indy
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 1):
What happened to free market? Didn't de-regulation happen 30+ years ago?

Due to the high cost of entry and the extensive regulator hurdles, the airline industry will never be a free market industry. The problem with deregulation and the mergers over the last 10 years or so is that it has opened the industry to widespread abuses. The industry needs one of two things. It needs competition or re-regulation. Until then, the industry needs to be heavily policed and abusers of the system need to be fined severely. It just gets worse with each passing year.
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MSPNWA
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 156):
Right.

It was a straw man. I don't see anyone here advocating that.

Quoting commavia (Reply 156):
Fine, then the industry should not expect much investment.

The industry has never had a problem with a lack of investment, so I don't see why we should worry now. Besides, stock is only one way to raise capital.

Quoting commavia (Reply 156):
I continue to find it remarkable that anyone things that where we are now in terms of profitability (7-14%) represents the "negative" - or opposite - "end of the spectrum" to where we were in the 2000s. I continue to believe 7-14% is entirely reasonable.

You can believe what you want, but it doesn't make it right. The higher the margin, the more desiring consumers are not consuming. Once airlines get past profits that sustain a healthy industry, they've slowed the economy. We've blown way past that now. Airlines are making profits that are far greater than they need to sustainable invest in their fleet, implement new technology, and give a modest return to shareholders. We need more competition again to balance the scales.

[Edited 2015-06-22 15:27:19]
 
commavia
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 160):
But if they talked about it between each other and made perhaps an "gentlemen" agreement to not use the others quantity control to "poach" pax from each other, than it is collusion and clearly illegal.

Indeed - that would be patently illegal. And if such a thing happened, I look forward to hearing someone - anyone - provide even the slightest shred of evidence to that effect. Until then, I'm going to work off the presumption that nothing even remotely close to what you describe has occurred. Something thinks that lawyers for $40B corporations would know better.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 161):
Besides, stock is only one way to raise capital.

Indeed. Companies can raise debt or equity. Both have pros and cons, but the sources of both require a return commensurate with risk.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 161):
Once airlines get past profits that sustain a healthy industry, they've slowed the economy.

But if airlines were making such outsized profits that they were no longer "sustain[ing] a healthy industry," wouldn't said un-"healthy" industry then change its behavior? Airlines, like all publicly-traded companies, are in business to maximize value creation for owners.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 161):
We've blown way past that now.

According to you.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 161):
Airlines are making profits that are far greater than they need to sustainable invest in their fleet, implement new technology, and give a modest return to shareholders.

According to you.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:50 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 162):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 160):
OK. But if they talked about it between each other and made perhaps an "gentlemen" agreement to not use the others quantity control to "poach" pax from each other, than it is collusion and clearly illegal.

You're clearly not privvy to pricing structures these days. If you read the earnings transcripts the last couple years you'll find many questions about "Advantage Pricing", whereby a carrier with a non-stop flight gets undercut on price by carriers only offering connections. Just because capacity is not growing quickly doesn't mean the airlines are not competing.

This is rampant in the US and is some of the fiercest competition you could think of. For example, if you go search for flights ATL-LAX, you'll find that AA, AS, and UA are all undercutting DL's fares for their non-stop flights.

We are talking past each other. If airlines agree together on quantity control, it does not change anything concerning that, if they compete bitterly with each other in other areas. And I did not say that the airlines have an agreement like that, but that such an agreement would be illegal.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 163):
Indeed - that would be patently illegal. And if such a thing happened, I look forward to hearing someone - anyone - provide even the slightest shred of evidence to that effect. Until then, I'm going to work off the presumption that nothing even remotely close to what you describe has occurred. Something thinks that lawyers for $40B corporations would know better.

The thread is about a senator asking the DOJ to investigate if there is an agreement. The strange thing with such agreements is, if you do not look you will never find them.   
 
commavia
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 165):
The strange thing with such agreements is, if you do not look you will never find them.

Again - by all means, let's spend taxpayer money on a fishing expedition to look. Fine. I still highly doubt it will find any evidence whatsoever to corroborate any activity even remotely similar to what you're describing.

Far more likely is the simplest answer - already repeated multiple times in this thread - which is that multiple independent actors in the market have all looked at similar proprietary data and experienced similar market behavior, and all independently arrived at broadly similar conclusions.
 
billreid
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 129):
There are probably examples where in certain markets the situation is less than optimal, but I believe on balance our air transport system is the best in the world.

A-Net s highly interesting from a point of view stand point. From an airline employee it is wonderful to see profitability yet at the same time the consumer is angry because he is getting the same product at a higher cost.

There are no optimal markets. All city pairs are pretty well unique with many factors resulting in good or bad performance. I look at each city pair and try as best as possible to determine probably of success. The easy factors are population, existing service distance from other airports. The problem becomes difficult when you look at fares and multiple gateways. You have to consider the impact if an airline lowers fares or increases fares, but what happens if an airport 100 miles away lowers fares. How does this impact your market.

The reason the mergers took place was solely to reduce competition, especially from a pricing perspective. NW, CO, US, FL were eliminated from a competitive perspective removing price competition. As each carrier flows traffic over the hubs there is competition on virtually every city pair.

The mergers removed price competition and has dramatically impacted the cost of air travel.
Anyone thinking otherwise has never sat in Economics 101 and considered SUPPLY, DEMAND, PRICE, CURVES.
As price goes up demand goes down which results in the supplier in reducing supply.

Any increase in both supply and demand could never have occurred under Keynesian economics with a corresponding increase in price.

What happened to MEM, CVG, PIT, MCI, STL, CMH, RDU, SJC, CLE? All these hubs and others have been reduced or killed. WN pulled FL service from many airports. Overlap has been reduced, while avoiding the regulatory argument of the impact on the consumer through lowering price competition.

The consumer has lost so much!
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Brewfangrb
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting AAexecplat (Reply 150):
What I am saying is that IF the airlines at least made a sincere effort to provide comfortable, friendly and reliable air service at all times, nobody would bat an eye at paying more for flying.

That's patently untrue. For all the hand-wringing here by some who claim consumers are entitled to lower fares so they can visit grandma, the bottom-line is that a lot of air travel is highly elastic.

Some have proclaimed that sure, fares are not significantly higher, but that doesn't account for the huge amount of ancillary revenue. Well, how did that figure get so large? Because people were willing to pay it! People make a decision everyday and by and large, they choose flights based on price. We deal with packed overhead bins and idiots on wings with carryons because people don't want to pay the $25 to check their bag.

You're claiming the airlines merely making a "sincere effort" would make passengers willing to pay a higher fare and that's just not true. If they can't afford the fare, they can't afford the fare. People who are picking the lowest, restricted fare are doing so for a reason.

Whenever it's reasonable, I pay to fly F. Not to gloat, not because I'm special. Because I find value in it. I get checked bags without a fee, I get a comfortable seat and reasonably personalized service. You can't do that for all 180 passengers on a flight. (For one, you couldn't get 180 pax on the plane all with F-sized seats).

Airlines had a stereotype for "airline food" WELL before the current way of not giving meals in Y, etc. So why would offering a meal (instead of snadwiches, etc) in Y make a person agree to pay a couple hundred more in fare?

No matter what people think, it's economics in action. You value the meal, the free checked bag, the large seat, whatever, highly enough, you'll pay for it. People proved they weren't willing to pay for it in large numbers--airlines eliminated meals in Y and people still flew. Added a fee for a checked bag--still flying. On and on. It's driven by the consumer, not the airline.
 
MKIAZ
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:52 pm

And there we have it. DOJ is launching a probe on high fares. Airlines stocks down today
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:49 am

Air fares are so cheap today! I remember the costs under regulation.   

The market is a wee bit tight and people complain. Open up congested airports, if required build land links to further out airports.

I'm sure NK, G4, and B6 would fill the gap. Heck, build a new terminal at ORD with at least 24 gates and award none to the US3.

Rail to IAD, expand LAX (T0 and increase space between the North runways), etc. Problem solved.

Lightsaber
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Matt6461
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:40 am

I've stepped off this thread for a while, too many CAPS in some responses...

Quoting commavia (Reply 156):
I continue to believe 7-14% [profit margin] is entirely reasonable.

It bothers me that you're still focused on this simple profit margin idea, taking the existing field of play as a given. That's a less sophisticated way to approach the issue than what I suggest. If the U.S. decided to adopt a pro-supply regulatory policy, such policy would nudge both the cost and revenue structure. I've given one example of such a policy: charge airport/navigation fees in a manner that incentivizes higher-gauge flights. Currently, airport user fees are charged to passengers at a flat rate added to tickets. That's an inefficient use of extremely expensive public infrastructure - the 220 people landing on an A321 use far less of a public good than the 44 landing on a CRJ-200. Likewise for slot apportionment and en route fees, which provide some small incentive for upgauging but not an efficient one.

The foregoing paragraph argues from pure efficiency, but a pro-supply policy could integrate general welfare and economic activity concerns as well. Our public policy could behave as if air travel, like roads, is a public good, subsidization of which by the state is justified by returns on economic activity and travel we view as essential. Numerous economic studies, for example, hold that one essential aspect of the U.S. economy's dynamism is our willingness to move far from home for employment. Cheaper air travel makes that more likely. So there's a further economic rationale - not quite the same as efficiency - for subsidizing air travel. We could charge larger planes less for domestic travel, for example.

At slot-constrained airports, we can and should be auctioning slots so that airlines have incentive to use them most intensively - the current system leads to regulatory capture inevitably.

These reforms, if successful, would lead to lower unit costs for the airlines in addition to lower unit revenue. Obviously profit margins would decrease if airlines are efficient profit maximizers right now, but there would still be a new [profitable] competitive equilibrium that enabled substantial airline profits. I have nothing against profits; some level of consistent profit is necessary for a healthy private industry to endure - and I don't want an airborn Amtrak. I do have everything against the philosophically obtuse commitment to profits above everything else. If we can tweak the market equilibrium to get a little lower prices, even with a little lower profit, we absolutely should do so. And we can take such actions right based solely on efficiency arguments regarding use of necessarily public infrastructure. I think we should go a little further but that would be a start.

Quoting commavia (Reply 164):
multiple independent actors in the market have all looked at similar proprietary data and experienced similar market behavior, and all independently arrived at broadly similar conclusions.

I agree that this explains most of the "capacity discipline" talk. I think we also agree that more explicitly collusive tactics should be investigated.
 
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enilria
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:09 am

ROTFL to everybody on the thread who said they won't investigate this.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-pro...among-033251400.html?.tsrc=applewf
 
WJ
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:37 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 158):
The planning and revenue management departments have all come to the conclusion that chasing market share by adding capacity - without ensuring that extra capacity is actually profitable - is a terrible idea.

So they're all exercising capacity control discipline to ensure they're operating profitably - as is their fiduciary responsibility - and speak of it when discussing their financials publicly.

That's not collusion, that's following industry best practices.

Exactly!

When exactly did running a good business become a crime? Is supply and demand still not a basic fundamental truth? Airlines are an easy target, especially in the US. They, along with the public, get taxed up the wazoo for all sorts of ridiculous GOVERNMENT charges that get adjusted and raised with little or no control. Yet the airlines, having to operate under an antiquated ATC system and absurd regulations that have very little to do with safety or consumer rights, are always to blame. Roughly 25% of the cost every ticket any of us buy in the US, goes to the government. In some countries it's higher. For folks who want cheaper fares, if that demand strongly exists, then players like Spirit, Frontier and alike, should have no problem capitalizing on this so called "supply squeeze" and grow wild with their low cost business model. Oh... they are not? Because people want mileage programs? Alliances? Lounges? Food? frequency? Well... I guess all that just costs a little bit more.

And its not like before the merger, the 6 large US carriers then didn't have similar prices for most segments. You wanted to fly transcon, everyone was within a $50 range of each-other. I did that run plenty of times.
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commavia
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 169):
It bothers me that you're still focused on this simple profit margin idea, taking the existing field of play as a given.

And it bothers me that anyone would evaluate the situation in any other way besides industry margins, because that is the ultimate true measure of the proportion of the value created by any economic enterprise that is accruing to the contributors of capital into said enterprise.

Value - what the consumer is willing to pay for the good/service
Price - what the producer charges for the good/service
Cost - what the producer pays to provide the good/service

Value - Price = value created that accrues to consumer
Price - Cost = value created that accrues to producer

For far too long - over three decades - far too much (at times literally 100%) of the value created by the air transportation system accrued to consumers, and today we have finally arrived at a rational industry structure where a reasonable portion of the value created is also accruing to the producers (shareholders, employees, etc.). If said value accruing to the producers was exorbitant, and out of line with what would be expected of other industries with similar profiles of risk, cost and complexity, that would be one thing. But that's no what's happening - not even close. Again - airlines have to produce returns commensurate with risk, cost and complexity in order to attract capital from investors and debtors who can otherwise place their money elsewhere. And in that context, high-single-to-low-double digit net margins are entirely reasonable.

Quoting WJ (Reply 171):
Is supply and demand still not a basic fundamental truth?

Well of course it is. The airline industry is still extremely competitive, and still driven by the fundamentals of supply and demand, and indeed is actually far more competitive than most other industries in one critical respect: the airline industry is among the most perfectly transparent competitive markets on earth, even to this day. This is exactly the reason why airfares are priced so dynamically - because, in general, airlines have absolutely nowhere to hide. If a competitor drops their price by $5, it shows up on CRS screens - let alone internet pages - almost instantaneously, right next to the prices of every other provider in the market. There are few consumer goods in the world - especially of the cost and complexity of air travel - that are priced quite that transparently with the prices for such a wide range of choices and alternatives all so easily accessible from so many sources.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 170):
ROTFL to everybody on the thread who said they won't investigate this.

Yup, and only a handful of airlines got the letter, which leads me to believe that DOJ knows more than they let on
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
commavia
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RE: Senator Asks DOJ Investigate Capacity "Discipline"

Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:06 pm

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 173):
Yup, and only a handful of airlines got the letter, which leads me to believe that DOJ knows more than they let on

Once again, as said, if the DOJ finds actual evidence of actual collusion - i.e., something other than CEOs stating the obvious in public fora in front of the global media - I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. I continue to believe - as apparently, does pretty much everyone on Wall St - that such evidence to that end will be rather "scant" to say the least. We shall see.

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Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos