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qf2220
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
VX

If VX works with VS in any way, it would make sense to move to anything but wherever VS works? Unless they work with others more of course

Quoting Egerton (Reply 44):
I do not know of the future fleet plans of Qantas.

Its probably safe to assume that QF wont be running A380s to JFK. 789s or 744s are the best bet for now.
 
beeweel15
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Unless they really make an effort in the amenities department, particularly with regard to food, T8 will not be outshining T4. Delta did a really good job with the vendors in T4 - the layout is pretty bad, but I'll take a bad layout with good amenities over a good layout with very lackluster amenities any day.

-Mir

T4 original design was to cater to the traveler and non traveler. The main attraction of T4 was the food court where you can have a choice of food sit and relax with your relatives before their flight or while waiting for them to arrive. Companies held meetings and events at the VS, Swiss and the Old NWA Lounges. There was a lot of alternate things you could have done at T4 now that is all gone. It was like a mini version of Schipol AirportDelta took that away now the terminal is just a scrappy as the old T3. And no fun to visit anymore.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 38):
Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 37):
.. and for those who did nothing to prevent it ...

Delta and PANYNJ actually denied requests from companies willing - and wanting - to offer preservation options.

Shameful.

I agree with you 100%

Quoting questions (Reply 39):
When will Phase 3 of T4, the expansion of T4A concourse, be started/completed?

May be on hold for a while since UA is moving out and will free up some precious space at JFK,

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 42):

There are at least 23 dining/food establishments in T8:
Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 42):
What more could one want?

Great food and retail choices but would like some of it outside of security so you can relax and have fun at the airport again. I mean why must I fly overseas to have fun at the airport and not here.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:39 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 47):
EY aren't part on OW.

I think I meant Qatar.  
 
BigOrange
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
Some airlines at T4 might want to move to T7, like VX for example.


Why would they do that, when they have no interline agreements with anybody there? Surely they would stay where VS are and pick up the feed?

Quoting Egerton (Reply 22):
These A380 aeroplanes are the lowest cost way of flying around the world, so more of them at JFK would tend to keep air fares low for Brits and New Yorkers.

BA don't want low fares, never have and never will.

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 43):

You won't see the a380 in BA colours at T7. What you will see is a lot of reconfigured 747's.


Aren't the 747's going the way of the dodo? There's already B777's creeping in on the route.
 
Egerton
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:50 pm

Quoting Egerton (Reply 22):
These A380 aeroplanes are the lowest cost way of flying around the world, so more of them at JFK would tend to keep air fares low for Brits and New Yorkers.


Quoting BigOrange (Reply 53):
BA don't want low fares, never have and never will.

Surely no supplier wants his goods or services to be sold at low prices?

It is the framework of competition which delivers low prices, including low airline fares?
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 53):
Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 43):

You won't see the a380 in BA colours at T7. What you will see is a lot of reconfigured 747's.

Aren't the 747's going the way of the dodo? There's already B777's creeping in on the route.

You get the odd rotation being operated for periods by a 777, but LHR-JFK largely remains a 744 route for BA. The reference that Johnwaynebobbet makes to reconfigured 747's is the fact that BA is about to refurbish 18 747-436s that it intends to keep in a Super Hi-J configuration of 14F 86J 30W 145Y.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
vv701
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 53):
Aren't the 747's going the way of the dodo?
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 55):
BA is about to refurbish 18 747-436s that it intends to keep in a Super Hi-J configuration of 14F 86J 30W 145Y.

Currently JFK sees BA's 299 seat 'Hi J' 744s that are configured F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185. The refurbishment of eighteen BA 744s into the new 275 seat 'Super Hi J' configuration is scheduled to start in August.

I think it likely JFK will see some of these aircraft at the start of the Winter Timetable if not before. I also think it likely that all eighteen will continue to be operated by BA well into the bext decade with the earliest retirements in 2023. By then JFK is still likely to be their #1 destination.
 
stlgph
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 38):

Quoting stlgph (Reply 28):
asbestos and lead paint made that decision.

Asbestos and lead pain can be easily abated. Destruction of a landmark cannot.

not with that building and ny code.
bye bye building. tear it down and give us something shiny and new because by the time it's finally here, it'll be years past due. like. now.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BA0197
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 56):
Currently JFK sees BA's 299 seat 'Hi J' 744s that are configured F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185. The refurbishment of eighteen BA 744s into the new 275 seat 'Super Hi J' configuration is scheduled to start in August.

I was not aware that BA were planning to make all 18 into the Super High-J config; or have I read your post wrong?
 
Andy33
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 50):
If VX works with VS in any way, it would make sense to move to anything but wherever VS works? Unless they work with others more of course
Quoting BigOrange (Reply 53):
Why would they do that, when they have no interline agreements with anybody there? Surely they would stay where VS are and pick up the feed?

Why assume that there's any significant cross-feed between VS and VX, given that VS is 49% owned by Delta and in a transatlantic Joint Venture with Delta.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:13 am

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 58):
I was not aware that BA were planning to make all 18 into the Super High-J config; or have I read your post wrong?

It has been reported that the eighteen BA 744s slated to be refurbished, fitted with a new IFE system and reconfigured are G-BYGA to 'GG, G-CIVF to 'VI, 'VR, 'VS and 'VV to VZ.
 
NYC-air
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 42):
I never really understand the notion that T8 is lacking in amenities/food options.

There are at least 23 dining/food establishments in T8:

Five full service restaurants: Bobby Van's Steakhouse, O'Neals Irish Pub, Soho Bistro, New York Sports Bar, Vino Volo
18 fast food establishments: McDonald's, Euro Cafe (3), Wok'n'Roll, Auntie Anne's Pretzels, Brooklyn Deli, Au Bon Pain, Abitino's Pizza and Pasta (2), Cascata, Baskin-Robbins, Starbucks (2), Dunkin Donuts (2), Juan Valdez Cafe, Cibu Express

Not to be stuck up here but I think the issue is that those are mostly mid-range mall like options. Jetblue T5, Delta T4 & T2, and Delta C/D at LGA have those too plus they have celebrity chefs and outposts of highly rated NYC restaurants in their terminals. It's a different feel! Jetblue even has other amenities like free wifi and iPad food/drink orders delivered to your gate (also available at Delta LGA). CO is adding these features to EWR C as well.

AA is behind on that front. The space is great but that don't have any anchor/memorable tenants food-wise nor do they have any unique services like iPad ordering. It's a 1990s selection. Eventually they're likely to do a revamp, just as DL did recently at LGA and CO is doing at EWR.
 
United1
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting NYC-air (Reply 61):
CO is doing at EWR.

What airline?  
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
NYC-air
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 62):
Quoting NYC-air (Reply 61):
CO is doing at EWR.

What airline?  

LOL nice catch! I guess my old habits die hard. Correction - UA is going it at EWR.
 
Mir
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 51):
The main attraction of T4 was the food court where you can have a choice of food sit and relax with your relatives before their flight or while waiting for them to arrive.

Two problems with that:

1) The options at the food court pre-renovation were really bad. And it wasn't really a pleasant place to be - it was dark, no good views, etc., so it didn't get used a lot for that purpose. Post-9/11 changes to security killed the concept of catering to the non-traveler as well off for good - having most of the shops outside the secure area was made very inconvenient. It's nice if terminals can cater to everyone, but they should prioritize those actually traveling. And that's what the T4 renovation has done.

2) Even if security had remained the same, the setup was never going to work as a connection hub with a large number of shops and restaurants inaccessible to connecting passengers. So it had to be changed.

There are certainly still problems with T4 - the security lines are often very long, the walks can be long, the gate areas aren't really big enough, and the bus to T2 is a pain. But it's still a pretty decent experience once you're past security, which is more than you can say about T8, which just seems outdated already.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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varsity
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):

Actually, they only badly mangles T4. They totally destroyed T3, which was a landmark, and which could have been redeveloped into a showcase at JFK.

There is a special place in hell for whoever made that decision....

Agreed. Where there's a will, the money appears. The newer wedge-shaped part would not be missed but the rotunda, as part of a connector between T4 and an expanded T1 encompassing the T2 footprint would have made a lot of sense. It could have been the lobby of a hotel, VIP lounges for the various alliances, a spa in the former baggage area... tons of options.

I deal with ASTM/LBP as part of my work (it took me six months to get approval to do work in T2)... more buildings than not in NYC have either or both, it is not a show stopper.
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mutu
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:35 pm

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 43):

Quoting Egerton (Reply 22):
Does T7 have an existing A380 gate or gates? If not, this would seem a priority within a few years. These A380 aeroplanes are the lowest cost way of flying around the world, so more of them at JFK would tend to keep air fares low for Brits and New Yorkers.

You won't see the a380 in BA colours at T7. What you will see is a lot of reconfigured 747's.

I am inclined to agree with Johnwaynebobbet here. The cargo penalty on the 380 soon adds up (approx 3t per flight per day compared to a 744) such that reduced lucrative belly capacity actually means reduced profitability unless you assume the 380 is considered for growth - ie the next (10th?) BA frequency. BUT ultimately you would also see growth in cargo (in fact that is often the reason for increased frequencies.) necessitating more belly still....HOWEVER BA has acknowledged they need more J capacity on the route which the 380 would supply (albeit with a big increase in Y possibly enough to depress yields appreciably on this highly competitive route)

The SUPER-HI 744 sub-fleet will see only a modest reduction in daily Y passenger count if it makes one or two daily rotations - but clearly an appreciable reduction if all 9 frequencies were to be operated by it- but will help satisfy the demand for J seats that BA has been faced with for a while now.

As an aside I had been told this sub fleet was being created to also provide backup to existing 380 operations. If a 380 goes tech, a super-hi 744 would pretty well cover F and J cabins 1 for 1 minimising the commercial damage to BA . A slight loss of W seats and a big loss in Y seats though of course

The interpretation by enthusiasts at the time was this signalled no 380 order top up from BA.

All conjecture of course
 
vv701
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 60):
It has been reported that the eighteen BA 744s slated to be refurbished, fitted with a new IFE system and reconfigured are G-BYGA to 'GG, G-CIVF to 'VI, 'VR, 'VS and 'VV to VZ.

Forgot to point out that these eighteen aircraft are the entire current BA fleet of 744s configured F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185. There are just two other 'Hi J' configured BA 744s in current service, G-CIVM and 'VO. They are configured with slightly fewer Y Class seats (F14 / J70 / W30 / Y177). They do not have the two rows of four seats, Row #54 and #55, between the two aisles at the rear of the Y Cabin.
 
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Revelation
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting varsity (Reply 65):
Quoting Mir (Reply 5):

Actually, they only badly mangles T4. They totally destroyed T3

Holy misquote, Batman!

The actual post was #4, not #5...

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 4):
Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 3):
Once complete T8 will out shine T4 which DL destroyed.

Actually, they only badly mangles T4. They totally destroyed T3,

Make sure to use the 'QUOTE SELECTED TEXT' button of the post you are quoting.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Natflyer
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 19):

T7 is a dump. Have you been through International Arrivals there?
 
GSTBA
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 67):
Forgot to point out that these eighteen aircraft are the entire current BA fleet of 744s configured F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185. There are just two other 'Hi J' configured BA 744s in current service, G-CIVM and 'VO. They are configured with slightly fewer Y Class seats (F14 / J70 / W30 / Y177). They do not have the two rows of four seats, Row #54 and #55, between the two aisles at the rear of the Y Cabin.

There are actually 6 aircraft still in service in the 14F/70J/30W/177Y configuration. They are G-BNLK, G-BNLN, G-BNLO, G-BNLP, G-CIVM and G-CIVO. BA plan to reconfigure 3 to 4 these aircraft into a mid J configuration later this year. I believe by 3Q2016 the 747's remaining in the fleet will be in one of two configs 14F/52J/36W/235Y or 14F/86J/30W/145Y

[Edited 2015-06-24 15:05:53]
 
panamair
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 69):
T7 is a dump. Have you been through International Arrivals there?

Yup, no arguments from me there. Find it funny that people are talking about trying to get an A380 in there...the current FIS facility there can hardly handle more than one international widebody arrival at a time....
The lines are often backed up to the ramp, and there are still no kiosks (for US citizens and Repeat ESTA pax) that you would find at T4 or T8 to help speed things up....
 
tymnbalewne
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:19 am

BA has extended their lease on T7 for seven years. The new lease costs have increased significantly. A byproduct of this is that BA letting the other carriers that they handle (CX, FI etx.) that the handling costs will also increase significantly and they're now free to look elsewhere for handling. This will, of course, negatively impact the BA staff who handle these flights, (more 100 are dedicated to CX alone).
Dewmanair...begins with Dew
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:36 am

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 69):

T7 is a dump. Have you been through International Arrivals there?

Yes. It is very nice. I frankly have no idea what you are talking about.

I waited for a gate with Icelandair (so the terminal was obviously crowded). We parked and I walked off the plane and went down a short ramp to a modern, clean, bright facility. Was it the Taj Mahal? No. It was all those other things though.

I was on the curb 15 minutes after walking off the plane.

What else do I want:

-The 15 minute walk to the arrival facility that Delta has at T4 (they actually have signs counting down the minutes to go!)?
-The AA walk, escalator down, walkway, escalator up then walk again scenario?
-MCO where I have to be shoved on a jerry rigged 1980s tram to stay outside the sterile area?
-MIA or FLL with endless waits (Customs actually keeps pax on the plane for extended periods in FLL due to overcrowding)?

BA T7 is one of the best arrivals in the US
 
beeweel15
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:40 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 64):
Post-9/11 changes to security killed the concept of catering to the non-traveler as well off for good - having most of the shops outside the secure area was made very inconvenient.

It can be done. I mean there are airports around the world that cater to both traveler and non traveler. The Post 9/11 excuse does not hold water anymore. They should take example from overseas and do something here.

Quoting Mir (Reply 64):
There are certainly still problems with T4 - the security lines are often very long, the walks can be long, the gate areas aren't really big enough,

All they did was build a bridge over the food court and eliminate several airline lounges so they made the security area smaller and only one instead of two. As for the long walk the area that the extension took place used to be aircraft parking areas, took out one taxi way and equipment storage used to be.
 
ilyag
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:52 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 73):
Yes. It is very nice.

You're probably talking about the departures - while it is looks OK, it gets easily overwhelmed during the evening rush hour. However, INTERNATIONAL arrivals downstairs is a real dump, easily the worst CBP facility in JFK
 
Egerton
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:01 am

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 72):

A new 7 year lease from the Port Authority seems very short termist.
It encourages neither long term thinking nor heavy investment.
BA's owner AIG have big piles of cash, but they are unlikely to waste them on T7 if the Port Authority make it non-viable.
 
Mir
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:15 am

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 74):
It can be done. I mean there are airports around the world that cater to both traveler and non traveler.

They all have more space to work with than JFK does. So you can wish that T4 would have a mall outside security like AMS does all you like, but it's just not going to happen - there's no space for it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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ams747757
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:59 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 73):
Yes. It is very nice. I frankly have no idea what you are talking about.

I waited for a gate with Icelandair (so the terminal was obviously crowded). We parked and I walked off the plane and went down a short ramp to a modern, clean, bright facility. Was it the Taj Mahal? No. It was all those other things though.
Quoting ilyag (Reply 75):

You're probably talking about the departures - while it is looks OK, it gets easily overwhelmed during the evening rush hour. However, INTERNATIONAL arrivals downstairs is a real dump, easily the worst CBP facility in JFK

I have been at both the arrivals and departures in T7 on FI... I thought it was a perfectly nice terminal. At international arrivals I made it through very quickly, despite being in a large group of people getting off the FI flight from KEF who all swarmed the area at once. The agents actually opened up the line for "diplomats"... I breezed through.
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 72):
BA has extended their lease on T7 for seven years. The new lease costs have increased significantly. A byproduct of this is that BA letting the other carriers that they handle (CX, FI etx.) that the handling costs will also increase significantly and they're now free to look elsewhere for handling. This will, of course, negatively impact the BA staff who handle these flights, (more 100 are dedicated to CX alone).

BA and the PANYNJ should convince AA to expand T8 to its full original size and tear down T7. The Terminal 7 sight should become a whole new BA or expanded T8 for BA, a whole new building capable of A380 and a bridge to Terminal 8 over the roadway. AA and BA can't let the T7 sight become something they can't control. JFK is BA most important international gateway and as such has unique things BA can't have at other airports.
 
Johnwaynebobbet
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:32 pm

I dont understand why you are so desperate for BA to send the A380 to JFK?
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 80):
I dont understand why you are so desperate for BA to send the A380 to JFK?

It is just good planning that any new Terminal to include the capability for A380's. BA operates 8 flights daily with mostly 747-400's whose days are numbered. Eventually 777. A350-1000, 787 and /or A380 are flying to JFK for BA. The fleet plan is moving beyond the 747 and the building at JFK has to follow the plan.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:39 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 81):
It is just good planning that any new Terminal to include the capability for A380's. BA operates 8 flights daily with mostly 747-400's whose days are numbered. Eventually 777. A350-1000, 787 and /or A380 are flying to JFK for BA. The fleet plan is moving beyond the 747 and the building at JFK has to follow the plan.

     

That whole UA side should become 2 380 capable gates.

Bring over one of the T4 carriers that are sharing the one gate on T4A.
 
brilondon
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 38):
Asbestos and lead pain can be easily abated. Destruction of a landmark cannot.

Is every terminal at JFK a landmark?
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 83):
Is every terminal at JFK a landmark?

why does everyone want to save airports terminals at JFK ? Save Grand Central Station if you want to save something ( Jackie Kennedy already saved it). IF some one wants to save old terminals they should have T3,4,5,6 and 7 landmarked at LAX since they all were built around 1960. From a functioning point of view that would be a disaster. At some point LAX will need new terminals.
 
alfa164
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 83):
Is every terminal at JFK a landmark?

I would suggest that the old TWA terminal and the late PanAm saucer were the only true landmarks at JFK.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 84):
why does everyone want to save airports terminals at JFK ? Save Grand Central Station if you want to save something ( Jackie Kennedy already saved it).

Perhaps you should have spoken up when the old Penn Station was torn down...
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jfk777
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:14 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 85):
I would suggest that the old TWA terminal and the late PanAm saucer were the only true landmarks at JFK.

The main part of the TWA was saved so I hope it becomes something useful and not an empty shell.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 85):
Perhaps you should have spoken up when the old Penn Station was torn down...




I was not around when PENN Station was around. Do you want to save Madison Square Garden next ? maybe Shea Stadium should have been saved or the old Yankee stadium ? AS much as we all loved the "house the Ruth built" it was time for the "house that Jeter" built.
 
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varsity
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 85):
I would suggest that the old TWA terminal and the late PanAm saucer were the only true landmarks at JFK.

If you did, I would agree with you. An argument could be made for T6 because of I.M. Pei's involvement and (I believe) the glass curtain wall design of the landside was revolutionary at the time, but it was essentially a rectangle. Of course, I also thought it could have been easily adapted for B6 (or anybody's) needs, with a new airside built to post-911 security needs, since it was so open. But (as has been discussed quite a bit on here) there were operational problems with it that I was not aware of.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
Holy misquote, Batman!

The actual post was #4, not #5..

Sorry about that!
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HPAEAA
Posts: 1142
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 79):
BA and the PANYNJ should convince AA to expand T8 to its full original size and tear down T7

if this ever happens I would hope that BA would keep separate lounges, even at JFK their J & F product is a lot more enjoyable than the Admirals Club & Flagship lounge...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 79):
AA and BA can't let the T7 sight become something they can't control.

So have they looked at getting JAL to move over to T7? Also EI might be in need of a new home soon as well as using some of the gates as flex space for other one world airlines if AA needs it's gates back...
1.4mm and counting...
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:47 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 88):

if this ever happens I would hope that BA would keep separate lounges, even at JFK their J & F product is a lot more enjoyable than the Admirals Club & Flagship lounge...

I think if BA built a wing on T8, it would be BA branded with BA lounges and have a feel similar to T7. That was/is the plan I heard.

It wouldn't be BA residing in the AA terminal...it would be a BA wing much like T7.
 
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STT757
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:50 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 82):
That whole UA side should become 2 380 capable gates.Bring over one of the T4 carriers that are sharing the one gate on T4A.

I think that would overwhelm the FIS capabilities of the terminal, it already cannot handle the current traffic through security during peak late afternoon / early evening rush. T7 has a domestic baggage claim area that UA and other airlines have been using for years, move VX, Sun Country and any other domestic carriers that aren't B6, AA or DL to T-7.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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Polot
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting Egerton (Reply 76):
A new 7 year lease from the Port Authority seems very short termist.
It encourages neither long term thinking nor heavy investment.
BA's owner AIG have big piles of cash, but they are unlikely to waste them on T7 if the Port Authority make it non-viable.

I think that is the point... the PANYNJ wants BA and partners out, preferably to an expanded T8, and full control over T7 and the land it sits on.
 
FlyingFan18
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:32 pm

RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:40 pm

Looking at the layout of JFK and flying from it multiple times I know it is not possible for T7 and T8 to be connected and I apologize if anyone explained before but what exactly worth PANYNJ want to do with the old T7 land? Also I assume T8 would have to be expanded to the right if you are looking overhead, correct? That is the only reasonable land space I see.

The should really complete the terminal like below:
Big version: Width: 400 Height: 271 File size: 45kb


[Edited 2015-07-02 13:44:26]
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:54 pm

The PA doesnt want to operate a terminal at all under any circumstances

I am not sure where that thought started

They unloaded T4

They just unloaded the CTB at LGA and they will likely unload T A at ewr when the time comes


They want private development of the facilities. If BA or B6 want to do that...great.

If not it will sit empty for years and years

Like T1 did

Like T5 did

Like T6 did

Like Tower still does


The PA is not an innovative proactive airport authority

They are a corrupt bureaucratic bi state agency that realizes they cant run anything beyond runways roads bridges and tunnels...and even that is done in the worst way possible.
Everything else needs to be turned over to private use:

Gothels
LGA CTB
New bus terminal in Jersey
WTC
 
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varsity
Posts: 449
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:46 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 93):
They just unloaded the CTB at LGA and they will likely unload T A at ewr when the time comes

I thought UA already managed Terminal A at EWR.
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mysterzip
Posts: 77
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:54 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 91):
I think that is the point... the PANYNJ wants BA and partners out, preferably to an expanded T8, and full control over T7 and the land it sits on

Agreed. I highly doubt BA or PANYNJ has any intention of keeping the terminal as is. Keeping up with the trend of foreign airlines exiting the terminal operator business as well as pressure from PANYNJ, I predict BA will be exiting as a building operator in seven years as well. Pure speculation on my part. Several things needs to happen before BA leaves:

1. As a business, British Airways is looking to pay as little as possible for its move, while maximizing its investment. This could be a partnership of financial institutions, IAG, PANYNJ, American, Cathay Pacific, what have you. BA has indicated by opening up lounges elsewhere that they want to keep that aspect of their brand.
2. PANYNJ will have to pressure BA to leave and word on the street is they do indeed want BA out. I just wonder what their motive is. Would they make money off Terminal 7 once BA is out? Or do they want to raze it and use it as hardstands?
3. IF BA indeed will move, an announcement will follow a finalized construction project. A new wing/terminal, whatever you may call it, takes a bit of time. The old AA plans are just that - old - they have to be redrawn, resubmitted, etc
4. Labor disputes need to be resolved one way or another. BA still employs its own employees throughout the United States, a characteristic unlike any foreign carrier, who have long switched most of their customer contact to their partner airline, handling agent or both. I also don't know of a BA station outside of UK that employs BA staff either.

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 69):

T7 is a dump. Have you been through International Arrivals there?

Frankly, any terminal at peak time is a dump, even state of the art. However, I must somewhat agree with you - Terminal 7 takes a special slice of that cake.
 
Andy33
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:28 am

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 95):
I also don't know of a BA station outside of UK that employs BA staff either.

Only two even inside the UK employ BA staff - LHR and LGW. There are in-house maintenance facilities at CWL and GLA, but that's all otherwise.
 
jfk777
Topic Author
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:26 am

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 95):
4. Labor disputes need to be resolved one way or another. BA still employs its own employees throughout the United States, a characteristic unlike any foreign carrier, who have long switched most of their customer contact to their partner airline, handling agent or both. I also don't know of a BA station outside of UK that employs BA staff either.

JFK is hardly an average BA Long Haul station with one or two daily flights. They have 8 daily flights, their own terminal and handle a ton of other airlines from ANA to Cathay. Yes they employ a ton people because its a large operation. The employees who actually do the direct airplane stuff like the baggage loading are Hudson General employees. JFK will always be BA's largest station.

As for the Terminal 7 site, it could be the PANYNJ wants it for JetBlue who took over the TWA T5 &6 sites, so T7 would be the next expansion sight.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
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RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 88):

if this ever happens I would hope that BA would keep separate lounges, even at JFK their J & F product is a lot more enjoyable than the Admirals Club & Flagship lounge...

It would see to me to have BA and AA in the same terminal so that transiting from one to another would be easier and alot less of a hassle from the passenger prospective. I don't find BA's product to be that much more superior than AA's. I am never in the club for more than an hour or two. It just becomes wasted time IMO. I don't see what difference it would make but that is just my opinion.

[Edited 2015-07-03 07:53:32]
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6342
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: BA Terminal 7 At JFK

Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 95):
PANYNJ will have to pressure BA to leave and word on the street is they do indeed want BA out. I just wonder what their motive is. Would they make money off Terminal 7 once BA is out? Or do they want to raze it and use it as hardstands?
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 97):

As for the Terminal 7 site, it could be the PANYNJ wants it for JetBlue who took over the TWA T5 &6 sites, so T7 would be the next expansion sight.

This is how a.net rumors go on to become a.net fact.

I don't know what the heck either one of you are talking about?!?!

The PA has never said they want BA out.

BA said they would like to join AA in T8 with a new wing. Years ago. Obviously that plan has changed as they just signed a new lease at T7. Now, it is a short term lease...so maybe they are kicking the can down the road for a few years and giving themselves time for planning, construction, etc. But that is about all you can read into this.

If you know anything about the PANYNJ, which by the posts above you may or may not, understand they are not a "normal" airport operator.

They are not like BAA
They are not like CLT or MCO or DEN or any airport authority that plans and manages a terminal facility.

JFK is a hodge podge of terminals operated by airlines. LGA is similar with the exception of the CTB.

For years, EWR was the only airport in the NY area that is operated like most other airports in this country...it had 3 pre planned, similarly looking terminals.

The $10 billion redevelopment at JFK over the last 20 years...that was mostly airlines knocking down, rebuilding, and then running the new terminals:

1 TOGA
2 Delta
4 JFKIAT Schipol USA/Delta
5 JB
7 BA
8 AA

Notice you don't see one building being run, built or used by the airport authority.


The last thing the PA wants is an empty terminal awaiting redevelopment. The absolute last thing.

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