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b777900
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Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:01 am

Can HNL handle the 380? And will any airline fly the 380 to HNL NS?
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compensateme
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:55 am

Only three airlines operating into HNL have the 380 (Asiana, Korean, Qantas). Asiana and Qantas typically serve HNL only several times a week and usually with smaller equipment. Korean typically uses a high-density 744 that has nearly as many seats as its 380; its 748 are also high density and are the logical replacement for the 744.

Until airlines take delivery of more 380 -- specifically more 380 in high-density configurations -- I doubt HNL will see service anytime soon. I know HNL is an uber important market for a.net, but not necessarily true for the airlines.
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tommy1808
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:05 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 1):
Only three airlines operating into HNL have the 380 (Asiana, Korean, Qantas).

Well, maybe on-offs like LHs A346 flight into HNL to deliver cruise passengers. If the Airport can handle that.

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CV580Freak
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:14 pm

EK soon SYD/HNL/LAX/JFK/LHR/DXB
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:43 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 2):
If the Airport can handle that.

HNL has received QF A380s on several occasions for medical diversions (1) (2), and Airbus flew F-WWDD (msn 004) to HNL in December 2012.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 1):
I know HNL is an uber important market for a.net, but not necessarily true for the airlines.

The level of service HNL receives would seem to indicate that the airlines think it is more important than you do.
 
aviationaware
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:34 pm

None of the airlines with significant traffic flows in and out of HNL operates the A380 or plans to do so. So chances for scheduled A380 service to HNL are very slim as of now.
 
airbazar
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:00 pm

Only 1 airline will have A380's with a configuration that fits the Hawaii market and that is EK. I'm referring to the 2-class A380's with a reduced J cabin that they will start operating in December. I don't think such a high density A380 can fly non-stop from DXB to HNL but I wouldn't put it past EK to find a intermediate point from which such a plane could be deployed to HNL. SYD? Somewhere in China? LGW?
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:00 pm

While I doubt it would ever happen, the Diamondhead concourse could easily be retrofit with a third jetway if needed, but doing international arrivals there would be a complete mess. (Although Asiana's 744s use it today.)

I miss UA flying 767s from LAX, but at the same time the frequency gives me a little extra flexibility. HA going to the 321LR tells the same story: Mostly small planes are here to stay for HNL.

The only way I could see the situation changing is if Quantas could get better utilization out of their aircraft by making HNL a gateway and letting DL ferry passengers on to the U.S. destinations.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 2):
Well, maybe on-offs like LHs A346 flight into HNL to deliver cruise passengers.

Probably airlines associated with tour companies, but this would not be on a set schedule. If the Aloha Bowl ever got more cartel than it has now, I could see big fanbase schools bring everyone over--team, press, boosters--on one flight and a 380 would be perfect for that.

(I remember when Nebraska would fill ten 747s from LNK/OMA-HNL when NU played Hawai'i. Saw BN's Fat Albert leave OMA...different times...)
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting JHwk (Reply 8):
The only way I could see the situation changing is if Quantas could get better utilization out of their aircraft by making HNL a gateway and letting DL ferry passengers on to the U.S. destinations.

Aside from the fact that Qantas partners with AA and not DL, a HNL "gateway" offers nothing unique over LAX, DFW, and soon SFO again.

As airbazar mentioned, basically every A380 out there is currently configured with way too many premium seats to justify sending to HNL.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 5):

The level of service HNL receives would seem to indicate that the airlines think it is more important than you do.

I'm in total disagreement here. Since the inception of a.net, HNL has been portrayed as something it's not (more than any other market in the world) with a perpetual stream of threads asserting that airlines should only be flying the newest widebody equipment into the market. How many threads have there been in the past few months asserting that AA should be operating the 763 on PHX/HL, that UA/AA should soon be operating the 787 into the market, etc. Like I said, HNL is not the uber important market this forum perceives it to be.
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 11):
Like I said, HNL is not the uber important market this forum perceives it to be.

Funny my impression from being on a.net all these years is exactly the opposite of this. The general consensus seems to be that Hawaii is a low yield, leisure and VFR market, which I agree entirely with. Having said that, HNL punches way above other airports in cities with the same population size much of it due to the fact that air travel is the only realistic way to get in and out of Hawaii/Oahu. Take SAN or SLC for example. Both have a CSA that is twice as large as HNL but they moves about the same number of passengers as HNL.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:54 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):

Funny my impression from being on a.net all these years is exactly the opposite of this. The general consensus seems to be that Hawaii is a low yield, leisure and VFR market, which I agree entirely with. Having said that, HNL punches way above other airports in cities with the same population size much of it due to the fact that air travel is the only realistic way to get in and out of Hawaii/Oahu. Take SAN or SLC for example. Both have a CSA that is twice as large as HNL but they moves about the same number of passengers as HNL.


I agree there's a faction of users who will persist that, but there's a much larger one who perceive Hawaii to be something it's not.
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 11):
I'm in total disagreement here. Since the inception of a.net, HNL has been portrayed as something it's not (more than any other market in the world) with a perpetual stream of threads asserting that airlines should only be flying the newest widebody equipment into the market. How many threads have there been in the past few months asserting that AA should be operating the 763 on PHX/HL, that UA/AA should soon be operating the 787 into the market, etc. Like I said, HNL is not the uber important market this forum perceives it to be.

I have to agree w/you pretty much here. There is some bizarre
fixation/infatuation with HNL in these forum threads.
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 13):
I agree there's a faction of users who will persist that, but there's a much larger one who perceive Hawaii to be something it's not.

Why does this bother you so much that it required three or four posts???????
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murchmo
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:23 pm

From
My perspective it's that it's because it's a leisure destination. Don't the bigger airlines focus their new upscale options on bigger business markets? Doesn't mean they won't fly the a380 there though.
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compensateme
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 15):

Why does this bother you so much that it required three or four posts???????

That's odd; it's a discussion forum and I thought I was having a discussion with a pair of posters who responded to me. Silly me!
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:46 pm

Quoting b777900 (Thread starter):
And will any airline fly the 380 to HNL

I can see very seasonal service from QF, say a couple of flights, around Dec/Jan & Jul (our school holidays) subbing for the A330, when more A380 or B789s arrive.

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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 11):
I'm in total disagreement here. Since the inception of a.net, HNL has been portrayed as something it's not (more than any other market in the world) with a perpetual stream of threads asserting that airlines should only be flying the newest widebody equipment into the market. How many threads have there been in the past few months asserting that AA should be operating the 763 on PHX/HL, that UA/AA should soon be operating the 787 into the market, etc. Like I said, HNL is not the uber important market this forum perceives it to be.
Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
Funny my impression from being on a.net all these years is exactly the opposite of this. The general consensus seems to be that Hawaii is a low yield, leisure and VFR market, which I agree entirely with. Having said that, HNL punches way above other airports in cities with the same population size much of it due to the fact that air travel is the only realistic way to get in and out of Hawaii/Oahu. Take SAN or SLC for example. Both have a CSA that is twice as large as HNL but they moves about the same number of passengers as HNL.

HNL is not a low-yield market. It is, in fact, one of the richest leisure markets in the world. That is the reason that so many airlines operate so many flights from so many airports across the Pacific Rim. This market is not serviced the way that it is because it isn't important. Ask anyone in the Network Planning departments at Alaska, American, Delta, United, JAL, ANA, Korean, China Airlines or Qantas Group if Hawaii is important. They all provide more than daily service to HNL, a destination that is not easy nor inexpensive to serve. They serve it precisely because it is important to their networks.

That said, the newest and largest equipment doesn't always go onto the most "important" routes. It usually goes on the routes where it will be most effective. United doesn't fly the 787 to Chengdu because SFO-CTU is "uber important". EK doesn't fly the 380 to DFW for any such reason either. Hawaii is vitally important to many of the airlines that serve it, but that doesn't necessity means that the newest or largest equipment os going to end up there.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 3):
EK soon SYD/HNL/LAX/JFK/LHR/DXB

Twice daily   
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:05 pm

As already mentioned, HNL is relatively low yielding, VFR and tourists. It does help that it's upmarket tourism, but it's still tourism nonetheless which is towards the bottom of the barrel for airline profitability.

No major companies (Fortune 100) are headquartered in HI, and the population is less than a million. This combined with the fact that it's so far away from everything else (you incur the extra expense of being equipped for overwater ops and ETOPS) will effectively keep traffic levels relatively flat. Additionally, it's too far south of a latititude to be an effective hub for the N. Asian-N. America business flows.
none
 
jetlanta
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting covert (Reply 21):
As already mentioned, HNL is relatively low yielding, VFR and tourists. It does help that it's upmarket tourism, but it's still tourism nonetheless which is towards the bottom of the barrel for airline profitability.

No major companies (Fortune 100) are headquartered in HI, and the population is less than a million. This combined with the fact that it's so far away from everything else (you incur the extra expense of being equipped for overwater ops and ETOPS) will effectively keep traffic levels relatively flat. Additionally, it's too far south of a latititude to be an effective hub for the N. Asian-N. America business flows.

Yet it is incredibly well-served by a variety of leading carriers from across the Pacific Rim. Do you ever wonder why? Here is a suggestion...it is a good market. I promise you, it is. Hawaii is not the typical low-yield tourist destination you all seem to think it is. It just isn't.

This December, HNL will average 33 daily international departures with an average aircraft capacity of 275 seats. Think about that for a minute. About 9,000 daily international seats are offered from HNL, despite all of the things going against it that you mention. This is not a regulated market. Airlines do not need to fly to HNL. They choose to do so because it is an important market to their networks.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 22):

Lots of flights on large aircraft doesn't necessarily dispute that the market is low yielding and filled with VFR and tourists.

The only conclusion you can draw from that is that HNL is a high volume market. But high volume does not equal high yield, in fact it often is indicative of the opposite as airlines boost their yield by offering better costs per seat in a market that can support the high volume of seats (i.e. CO/UA flying 753s between NYC and Florida to compete against LCCs like B6).

[Edited 2015-06-22 14:27:38]
 
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compensateme
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 19):
HNL is not a low-yield market. It is, in fact, one of the richest leisure markets in the world. That is the reason that so many airlines operate so many flights from so many airports across the Pacific Rim. This market is not serviced the way that it is because it isn't important. Ask anyone in the Network Planning departments at Alaska, American, Delta, United, JAL, ANA, Korean, China Airlines or Qantas Group if Hawaii is important. They all provide more than daily service to HNL, a destination that is not easy nor inexpensive to serve. They serve it precisely because it is important to their networks.

That said, the newest and largest equipment doesn't always go onto the most "important" routes. It usually goes on the routes where it will be most effective. United doesn't fly the 787 to Chengdu because SFO-CTU is "uber important". EK doesn't fly the 380 to DFW for any such reason either. Hawaii is vitally important to many of the airlines that serve it, but that doesn't necessity means that the newest or largest equipment os going to end up there.

The importance of Hawaii is heavily overrated on these forums. Several times a year, threads discussing possible LHR-HNL service, AS buying widebodies for Hawaii, the prospects of DL flying 777 Mainland-HNL, Hawaiian buying 748, etc. engage. More recently, it's been UA needs to operate the 787 to be competitive to HNL, when will AA operate the 787 to Hawaii, "credible rumors" that AA is begging to operate the 763 PHX-HNL, "credible rumors" that AA wants to launch PHL-HNL with a 777, etc. One of my most memorable discussions on here was a discussion on UA trimming OGG service (probably in an OAG thread) -- even though the cut left the market with more capacity than it had in years' past, the poster insisted that the reason it was cut was because wealthy travelers avoided 757 as it was like showing up to the prom in a pick-up.

Thus, I stick to my comment -- the importance (or maybe a better term is prominence, but hey, it's an informal forum) of Hawaii is vastly overrated here.
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 24):

Your problem then, is being able to separate sane, intelligent and constructive discussion (Jetlanta)from the biddle baddle that often spews across the keyboards of people who think they know what they're talking about. HNL does get an odd amount of attention of this forum, but that doesn't diminish the reality of the situation at hand, with respect to the importance of flying to Hawaii. Each airline that serves Hawaii, obviously sees it as value towards the network. In that sense, indeed, it's important. In the sense that it begs to question silly items such as 380 service, ultra luxurious service opportunities at rock bottom fares from the furthest corners of the earth and gender neutral service call buttons, then no, it's not important.

[Edited 2015-06-22 15:16:00]
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 25):
Your problem then, is being able to separate sane, intelligent and constructive discussion (Jetlanta)from the biddle baddle that often spews across the keyboards of people who think they know what they're talking about. HNL does get an odd amount of attention of this forum, but that doesn't diminish the reality of the situation at hand, with respect to the importance of flying to Hawaii. Each airline that serves Hawaii, obviously sees it as value towards the network. In that sense, indeed, it's important. In the sense that it begs to question silly items such as 380 service, ultra luxurious service opportunities at rock bottom fares from the furthest corners of the earth and gender neutral service call buttons, then no, it's not important.

I don't disagree with you and while I don't agree with everything jetlanta wrote, it wasn't the point I was trying to make. Of course Hawaii is important -- it's by far the #1 destination for FF redemptions [and "free" isn't always "free" -> not just to the customer. Take a look at the US3's financial statements and notice the liability they carry for their FF program...]

[Edited 2015-06-22 15:29:03]
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 25):
In the sense that it begs to question silly items such as 380 service, ultra luxurious service opportunities at rock bottom fares from the furthest corners of the earth and gender neutral service call buttons, then no, it's not important.

All of this is silly. There are hundreds of major airports around the world that are LESS important than HNL in the scheme of things. There are airports that get 380 service that don't begin to approach HNL' s level of long-haul, intercontinental service. If you definition of "important" rides on the things you mention, there sure aren't many important airports in the world. Hell, does my hometown airport, ATL, qualify under this definition? It has one 380 and zero 787 flights a day and only a small handful of international carriers. Seems pretty unimportant under these guidelines.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 26):

But FF redemptions aren't what fills those seats to Hawaii. Fares are relatively high (finally) and are contributing to profits for all carriers. I'd say they're managing their FF liabilities and other areas of the financials to Hawaii just fine. It's a balance right?
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting covert (Reply 21):
he population is less than a million.

current US census (2014) - the State of Hawaii population is 1.42m ..

The "problem" that Waikiki has at the moment is that we don't have enough hotel rooms. Occupancy on average is running in the 80s. If there were more rooms to fill - there would be more flights. No use adding flights/seats when there isn't any place for people to sleep. I don't see any major increase in hotel rooms any time soon. There's only so much land in Waikiki. To some extent, the neighbor islands have benefited from the high occupancy room levels in Waikiki - as well as being a draw in their own right.

The "bigger plane/smaller plane" issue is really deregulation. Prior to deregulation flights primarily funneld off the west coast - and flights primarily came to Honolulu (there were a few flights to/from Hilo) - so airlines needed bigger planes. Now, there are a lot more cities that have nonstop service to Hawaii - and there's service to all islands - Hawaii isn't just HNL any longer. It's more important to get that right-sized plane closer to where passengers want to fly to/from.

On an interesting note - UA is sending a 789 here on 1 flight LAXHNL on July 1. Then it will operate HNL-NRT-HNL effective July 2-Aug 18.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:50 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 27):

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 25):
In the sense that it begs to question silly items such as 380 service, ultra luxurious service opportunities at rock bottom fares from the furthest corners of the earth and gender neutral service call buttons, then no, it's not important.

All of this is silly. There are hundreds of major airports around the world that are LESS important than HNL in the scheme of things. There are airports that get 380 service that don't begin to approach HNL' s level of long-haul, intercontinental service. If you definition of "important" rides on the things you mention, there sure aren't many important airports in the world. Hell, does my hometown airport, ATL, qualify under this definition? It has one 380 and zero 787 flights a day and only a small handful of international carriers. Seems pretty unimportant under these guidelines.

I misread your original point above. Sorry for the confusion. I think we are pretty much on the same page.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:51 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 28):
But FF redemptions aren't what fills those seats to Hawaii. Fares are relatively high (finally) and are contributing to profits for all carriers. I'd say they're managing their FF liabilities and other areas of the financials to Hawaii just fine. It's a balance right?

This is very true. Most people really don't understand the dynamic here. Fares are very competitive for the stage length and FF redemptions are as valuable as cash to the airlines. This is exactly why there is so much Hawaii service. They don't fly there to lose money.

[Edited 2015-06-22 15:52:12]
 
jetlanta
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 24):
Thus, I stick to my comment -- the importance (or maybe a better term is prominence, but hey, it's an informal forum) of Hawaii is vastly overrated here.

Maybe prominence works better. I'm not sure Hawaii gets much more overall coverage here than some far smaller and less important international gateways, but I get your point. On the flip side, the Hawaii air service market is far more diverse and far more interesting than most other U.S. markets. Outside of the major coastal markets (BOS/JFK/MIA/LAX/SFO/SEA) and perhaps a few of the largest fortress hubs (ATL/DFW/IAH), there really aren't that many more interesting places right now in the U.S. market in terms of developments in international air service.
 
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hawaiian717
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:15 am

15 years ago when the Ewa Concourse was filled with JAL 747s every morning, high density A380 service between HNL and NRT seemed obvious. Today, not so much.
 
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:24 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
Only 1 airline will have A380's with a configuration that fits the Hawaii market and that is EK. I'm referring to the 2-class A380's with a reduced J cabin that they will start operating in December. I don't think such a high density A380 can fly non-stop from DXB to HNL but I wouldn't put it past EK to find a intermediate point from which such a plane could be deployed to HNL. SYD? Somewhere in China? LGW?

I see no reason for EK to fly to HNL. Who would use the route? Hawaiians traveling to the Middle East/Africa/Europe? Middle East/Africa populations going on vacation to Hawaii? DXB population going on vacation to Hawaii?

Let's see what the main long haul routes are out of HNL: in 3 words it is Japan, Japan, and Japan. And to lesser extent, Korea, and China (for now, but may increase substantially in the future)
No Japanese airline operate the A380, let alone one configured in a leisure oriented configuration (in the unlikely event that NH or JL were to get the A380, it would likely be premium market configured, i.e., not flying to HNL.) And same goes for DL and UA, the other big Japan-HNL players.
The Koreans have their A380 in heavy premium configuration as well.
I could see A380 service from China on the long term. Maybe. Definitely maybe.
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hh65man
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:31 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 3):



EK soon SYD/HNL/LAX/JFK/LHR/


I give this trip a go just for the amusement factor...around the world on one bird.....bring it on EK.....     
 
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Schweigend
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:22 am

Hawaiian business for the Airlines is of course mostly comprised of tourists -- That's really all there is!

But these pax are paying at least $600 roundtrip in Coach from the U.S., with many paying much more than that. Hawaii is not a cheapo destination, as it has relatively high airfares and high hotel rates.

Similar stage-lengths to Europe can garner RT fares in the $400-600 range, sometimes much less, so the airlines are quite happy serving HNL.

UA, for example, flies 340+ seat 772s to HNL from most of its hubs -- LAX, SFO, DEN, ORD, and IAH.
Newark and Dulles get 240+ seat 764s.

The 777-222 has 32F 98Y+ 214Y with 2-5-2 config in Y

The 767-424 has 39J 70Y+ 133Y with 2-3-2 config in Y

Let's see what the fares look like, shall we?  

Checking availability for a roundtrip from all of UA's hubs to HNL on Tu 11 Aug - Fr 14 Aug (that's three hotel nights), I just found the following LOWEST fares:

LAX --- $632 --- 777
SFO --- $649 --- 777
DEN --- $881 --- 777
ORD --- $954 --- 777
IAH --- $934 --- 777
EWR --- $962 --- 764
IAD --- $977 --- 764

(From LAX and SFO United also serves HNL with 757s and 737s, but they didn't have the lowest fares for these dates.)

Bear in mind that these flights go out FULL, or almost so, every day.

As we can see, Hawaii is not necessarily a cheap place to visit, especially with hotel rates at > $100 / night!

I'm sure the other U.S. airlines have similar fares and are making BIG money to Hawaii !

Checking AA from DFW: they have two daily from DFW on 763s -- and for 11-14 Aug, their lowest RT fare is $917.

Therefore -- to the OP's question -- an A380 could well make money from the U.S. to HNL, but who would operate it? Most US3 hubs except for California see only a single daily flight.

I suppose that some of the multiple Calif.-Hawaii flights could be consolidated into a single A380, but that would take away the frequency we have enjoyed for decades.

Cheers and Regards

edit to add:
None of the US3 are likely to operate the A380 soon, despite the Skymark rumors.

 Cool

[Edited 2015-06-23 19:15:51]
 
airbazar
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 36):
But these pax are paying at least $600 roundtrip in Coach from the U.S., with many paying much more than that. Hawaii is not a cheapo destination, as it has relatively high airfares and high hotel rates.

That is still half of what we pay to fly from Boston/NYC to Europe, by comparison.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
That is still half of what we pay to fly from Boston/NYC to Europe, by comparison.

Which have a long stage length and higher taxes.
 
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Polot
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 38):
Which have a long stage length and higher taxes.

Depending on which flights you are comparing the stage lengths are not necessarily longer, although taxes are higher as you mention. JFK-HNL, for example, is about equivalent to flying JFK-IST. I wouldn't say sub $1000 fares from the east coast to Hawaii are an example of exemplary yields.
 
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cathay747
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:15 pm

Well, back to the OP's original question...

I suppose HNL can handle the A380, although I don't think
they have any dual-jetway gates, if memory serves, so pax
handling would be a nightmare.

Will any airline fly the A380 to HNL? In a word, no. Everyone's
380's are premium-heavy, and they're not going to run such
a config. to/from Hawaii. And as I believe someone sort of
pointed out above...I cannot imagine that EK would ever fly
to HNL...what market would there be? Even their 2-class
config. would still be too premium heavy.

And even if somebody did an all-Y config. on a 380, it would be
WAY too much capacity, unless you decided to run 1 flight from
someplace like LAX vs. 3 or 4. Frequency would have to suffer
with that amount of capacity, or they'd lose their shirt!
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azjubilee
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 40):

There are indeed gates with dual jetways, but that point is moot, since it wouldn't be the tipping point for an airline to serve HNL with a 380. Yes, it could land and park there, but is it wise? Heck no.
 
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cathay747
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 41):
There are indeed gates with dual jetways

Thanks for confirming that; I haven't been there, sadly, since 2010 and
I couldn't remember if I saw any.
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jaybird
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:06 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 38):

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
That is still half of what we pay to fly from Boston/NYC to Europe, by comparison.

Which have a long stage length and higher taxes.

And that's a big difference - 49 states to Hawaii is charged domestic taxes. When you travel to an international destination the taxes (or fuel surcharges) really boost the cost of a trip. For example - Honolulu-Guam airfare is between $1000-$1200 depending on time of year/day of week/etc .. boost that by $600-$800 in surcharges that United still charges and a Guam ticket gets expensive. Wish HA would start flying to Guam. Same thing with other international destinations - taxes are a huge chunk of the ticket.

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 36):
Bear in mind that these flights go out FULL, or almost so, every day.

That's technically true, but not really. We have our soft periods too where people get the entire middle section to themselves. What really happens here or any area with a high concentration of frequent flyers is that first has some revenue passengers, then fills up with complimentary MileagePlus upgrades, then coach fills up with standbys (and there are a lot of standbys) from the seats vacated by the folks who get moved up to first. So yes, a lot of flights go out full (specific to United since they're our preferred carrier - but I'm sure it plays out with AA and DL, too) - but those aren't all paid seats. There's a lot of mileage redemption, free upgrades and standbys. So, I wouldn't make the assumption that airlines are making BIG money in Hawaii just because flights are full. You have to look at yields and high cost of doing business in Hawaii. Paradise is an expensive place to live and operate a business.

The pricing you've posted is during high season - mid-June to around the 3rd week of August is one of the high seasons. Non-high season rates can be much lower. Rates to LAX can be in the $350-$450 range .. we've gotten fares to Chicago in the $650 range, and to the east coast as well. My comment is - taking a snapshot on one set of dates doesn't accurately extend out and reflect prices every day of the year. There are peaks and valleys.

Also, hotels in Hawaii are getting premium prices now because occupancy levels are so high - the product hasn't really changed except that beds are full - so they're charging more because they can. Just like airfares in high season.

I don't see revenue A380 flights to Hawaii any time soon, if at all.
 
airbazar
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting jaybird (Reply 43):
And that's a big difference - 49 states to Hawaii is charged domestic taxes.

The big difference is not in the taxes but in the fuel surcharge that the airlines charge and goes straight to their bottom line. At the end of that an airline makes a whole lot more money putting the plane on a TATL route instead of a route to Hawaii. Period. BOS-LHR is 5 1/2 hours. Good luck finding a ticket on this route for $600.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:20 am

I thought HNL would see an A380 by now. What I didn't expect is the end to the hotel expansion.

Quoting jaybird (Reply 29):
The "problem" that Waikiki has at the moment is that we don't have enough hotel rooms. Occupancy on average is running in the 80s. If there were more rooms to fill - there would be more flights. No use adding flights/seats when there isn't any place for people to sleep. I don't see any major increase in hotel rooms any time soon. There's only so much land in Waikiki. To some extent, the neighbor islands have benefited from the high occupancy room levels in Waikiki - as well as being a draw in their own right.

That would be an issue that slows expansion.


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lightsaber
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RE: Will Any Airline Fly The 380 To HNL

Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:36 pm

Added thought. Of HNL's major markets, only one potential airline could fly the A380, QF.
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