Brunopt
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New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:21 pm

Good afternoon!

Today was the signing of the contract between the Portuguese government and the consortium that bought 61% of TAP Portugal. Some big changes ahead for the new TAP.

http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/empre...e_chegar_a_800_milhoes_na_tap.html

http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/empre...0_destinos_nos_eua_para_a_tap.html

Summarizing Neelman's statements:

- The purchase of the A350 would kille TAP;

- At least 53 new planes, 14 A330-900 and 39 A320NEO/A321NEO (LR variant included);

- 8 to 10 new routes to Brazil;

- 10 new routes to US;

- Profits back in 2016.


Rgds
 
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lesfalls
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting Brunopt (Thread starter):

Is there really enough demand for 10 new flight to the U.S ?
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A388
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 1):
Is there really enough demand for 10 new flight to the U.S ?

This surprises me too so I can only assume Neeleman knows what he's doing. The A330-900 might seem like a better fit for TP as the A350 might have too much range for its route network.


A388
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:48 pm

Sad not to see the A350 in TAP colors, for now.
@DadCelo
 
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ERJ170
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:51 pm

TAP current US routes are MIA, EWR, BOS, and JFK..

The next 10 would probably be WAS, LAX, SEA, SAN, ORD, ATL, DFW, IAH, SFO, and I don't know the 10th. SJU?

Thoughts?

Sorry.. looks like it's only MIA offered now.. so the 10th would be NYC and remove IAH with BOS

[Edited 2015-06-24 08:52:58]
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nighthawk
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 1):
Is there really enough demand for 10 new flight to the U.S ?

If you can offer connections to Europe, then there might be demand if fares are low enough. How many US destinations do they serve at present?
 
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United787
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:00 pm

I could see ORD & IAD because of UA's *Alliance feed.
BOS and maybe MCO with B6's feed, assuming they partner up.
IAH because of UA & *Alliance but also because of oil and TP's access to Africa.

In fact, I see TP's biggest advantage for US flights is it's geographical location and potential routes to Africa.
 
aviationaware
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:04 pm

So will the A350s be a) cancelled b) switched into an A330-900 order or c) sold on to Azul?
 
mfc
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
Quoting nighthawk (Reply 5):

TAP only flies to EWR and MIA.

Seriously, I don't see how they could offer 10 more destinations to the U.S. Iberia with a much bigger local market, a larger European network and a JV flies to JFK, MIA, ORD, BOS and LAX, the latter two are seasonal. Moreover, Lisbon is not ideally situated to act as a hub between Europe and the U.S. Africa is different but I don't how significant the market is and you have AF, KLM or BA with better networks.
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Miami
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:12 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
WAS
IAD?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
TAP current US routes are MIA, EWR, BOS, and JFK..

Actually, only MIA and EWR.

[Edited 2015-06-24 09:21:45]
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United787
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 9):
They already fly to BOS.
Quoting Miami (Reply 9):
Actually, only MIA and EWR.

You are wrong and correct...

meant to add a  Wink

[Edited 2015-06-24 10:03:21]
 
jetblue1965
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:19 pm

Neeleman should keep his ego in check. LIS will never be MAD and Portugal will never be Spain. He can increase both LatAm and NAm a bit but to go overkill like that is financial suicide

Agree with his choice of plane -TAP has nearly no need for 359's range.

Personally I think the next U.S. Destinations should be BOS and ORD. focus on getting the connections and less about servicing low yielding diaspora VFR
 
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Miami
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 10):

My mistake, wasn't think straight. Just fixed.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Rookinla
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
The next 10 would probably be WAS, LAX, SEA, SAN, ORD, ATL, DFW, IAH, SFO, and I don't know the 10th. SJU?

I would be curious to hear your rationale for SAN. TP will not start a route with basically zero demand.

Looking at your list, I could see the possibility of IAD, SFO , ORD and maybe LAX (although I don't necessarily see the vailibility of this one). They would get very little non-alliance feed in ATL, SEA and DFW. I just don't see where these routes would be profitable on O&D alone. Puerto Rico and Portugal have little demand for direct flights. SJU hasn't been a very hospitable route for the European carriers.

Quoting United787 (Reply 6):
BOS and maybe MCO with B6's feed, assuming they partner up.

Ding ding. I think we have a winner! BOS is a no-brainer if TP does add new US cities. There is significant VFR traffic and business demand. And MCO is a possibility if they add at least four cities. 10 new routes doesn't necessarily mean 10 new cities.
 
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Miami
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:31 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 13):
BOS is a no-brainer if TP does add new US cities.

BOS is a no-brainer to everyone nowadays, huh?


What makes it a no-brainer?
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JetBuddy
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:35 pm

I think it's the A321neoLR choice that will help open these 10 new routes. Should be perfect for TAP. The A321neoLR has 4100nm advertised range, but with headwinds and routing it will be less.

So if you put 3700nm into Great Circle Mapper, you can reach most of Brazil, large parts of northern South-America, half of Canada and the whole east coast of the USA, including Florida. And of course all of Europe, almost all of Africa, half of Russia and the whole Middle East.
 
flyby519
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 14):

Metro BOS has the largest portugese population in the U.S.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Portuguese_American#Biggest_communities
 
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adamblang
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:48 pm

"10 new routes to the US" doesn't necessarily mean LIS-USA. Could one or two OPO-USA, FAO-USA, FNC-USA routes work?
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Miami
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:52 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 15):

OK, that may be true. But BOS already has SATA. TAP isn't the one that would compete unless they code-share or enter a Star hub.
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Rookinla
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 16):
Metro BOS has the largest portugese population in the U.S.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Portuguese_American#Biggest_communities

That's exactly why I agreed with BOS. The Portugese community is huge in BOS and the rest of MA and RI.

Quoting Miami (Reply 18):
OK, that may be true. But BOS already has SATA. TAP isn't the one that would compete unless they code-share or enter a Star hub.

SATA doesn't offer significant connections, other than to the Azores. TP has connectivity in LIS and in a head to head, S4 would likely be the one to bow out...not TP. They currently codeshare on S4's flights If TP comes to BOS, you may very well see S4 retreat to PVD instead. Or S4 may go back to only serving BOS-Azores and leave LIS to TP.
 
VAM8789
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 18):
OK, that may be true. But BOS already has SATA. TAP isn't the one that would compete unless they code-share or enter a Star hub.

SATA focuses on those going to/from the Azores primarily. At least that's the idea I get when I see their advertising on the T in Boston. LIS-BOS is roughly 2775 nm, well within the range of the 321neo. Also SATA does not serve LIS-BOS year round and when they do, it's only 1 or 2 times a week. So what's the harm in TP taking a chance and running LIS-BOS 3-5 x week?
 
zrs70
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:16 pm

Tap served BOS for many years, going back to the 70's (or perhaps even the 60's).
20 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2020
 
usflyer msp
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:21 pm

Beyond, EWR and MIA, the only realistic possibilities I see for TP are BOS and YYZ. IAD, ORD, and SFO are also possible but longshots...
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:28 pm

Ambitious expansion plans are always to be taken with a grain of salt.

That said, with low cost, long-range planes, such as the a321NEO LR and an efficient operation, who knows? See what Copa has managed in PTY or even Icelandair in KEF, both of which are much smaller markets than LIS.

I´d give Neeleman credit. He´s managed to transform VCP from what was basically a cargo airport with a few pax flights trown in into a reasonably sized hub going from about 1M pax a year in 2008 to almost 10M last year.
 
Rookinla
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 22):
Beyond, EWR and MIA, the only realistic possibilities I see for TP are BOS and YYZ. IAD, ORD, and SFO are also possible but longshots...

Why would you consider IAD, ORD and SFO longshots? What they all have in common is...They are Star Alliance hubs, which makes them much more likely than you may think. In addition, although VFR isn't the highest yielding traffic, you may want to have a look at the Portugese population in the SF Bay area, primarily in the East Bay.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 22):
Beyond, EWR and MIA, the only realistic possibilities I see for TP are BOS and YYZ. IAD, ORD, and SFO are also possible but longshots...

Why is ORD is a long shot? It's the 3rd largest metro (after NY and LA), the largest UA hub by some metrics, and a convenient connection point for a large swath of the nation to LIS with little/no backtracking involved.

IAD/SFO are definitely longshots, I agree.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 20):

They also operate 1x weekly OPO-BOS service in the summer. I can't belive Neelman didn't say anything about serving YUL and YYZ(which are both served by Sata to LIS and the Azores). Canada does have a big Portougese population or it doesn't ?
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gullairACK
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:51 pm

Many people thought Aer Lingus' North American growth plans were pie in the sky, but they created a great hub network that could work for TAP. They now serve multiple widebodies to JFK, BOS, ORD, MCO, IAD and SFO. That is 12 daily flights from 2 Irish cities with plans to expand to a few more with ease (LAX, DFW?). This could be replicated by TAP with network feed to Africa, Southern Europe in addition to the Azores, Madeira and Oporto in the manner SNN has supplemental routes.

I am unfamiliar if they have a relationship with SATA, but if their destinations are able to be duplicated/absorbed, I see 12 routes with 10 new adds; particularly if NEO aircraft are used.
For a start, BOS could return with LIS and PDL/FNC
PVD could do PDL
EWR* could add PDL/OPO
SFO* to LIS (nearby OAK community currently served by SATA as well as local feed to Euro/Africa network)
IAH* to LIS for Africa oil feed
IAD* to LIS for Africa feed supporting government traffic as well as ethnic travel.
ORD* to LIS for Euro/Africa feed from Star hub

I am less confident of a FAO add as some popular destinations favoured by Europeans just don't work for Americans (Canaries and coastal Spain when cruise clients are discounted). While not the US, I would select YYZ as a Star hup and Portuguese community before other guesses.

* Star hubs for feed.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting Brunopt (Thread starter):
Summarizing Neelman's statements:

- The purchase of the A350 would kille TAP;

That sounds rather exaggerated. I agree the A339 is a far better fit for TAP, but if Airbus hadn't launched the A330neo I'm sure TP would have survived still  

I wonder what will happen with TP's A350s. They were to receive MSN090, I suppose somewhere early 2017. And Azul's lease for A350s with ILFC (now Aercap). Would A330neo's also not be a better fit for Azul? Aercap has no A330neo's on order, so Azul won't be able to swap models with them.

Wonder if TP can sell their A350s to a leasing company that has the A330neo on order? Might be a win-win situation - if Airbus allows it.
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jetblue1965
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:03 pm

Quoting gullairACK (Reply 27):
Many people thought Aer Lingus' North American growth plans were pie in the sky, but they created a great hub network that could work for TAP. They now serve multiple widebodies to JFK, BOS, ORD, MCO, IAD and SFO.

2 crucial points though :

1. DUB is on the natural flight path between North America and Europe, so it's a very convenient transit point (with pre-clearance to boot) LIS requires a southerly detour for most of continental Europe.

2. Ireland has a large tech industry that supports the premium traffic to places like SFO (someone gotta fly to Ireland to hide all the corporate taxes)

LIS has neither of those advantages.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting gullairACK (Reply 27):
Many people thought Aer Lingus' North American growth plans were pie in the sky, but they created a great hub network that could work for TAP.

Ireland has lots of economic and ethnic ties and is the closest European country to the US (besides Iceland). Geography, Language, Culture, and Economic ties all give it reasons to have extensive NA ops. TAP has none of this. In fact, trade between the US and Portugal has actually been decreasing as Portuguese companies shift resources to less competitive markets in Latin America and Africa and US companies have not been expanding due to Portugual's poor economy and relatively low GDP. TAP's relatively high costs and the capacity limitations of the LIS aiport make a transit-oriented operation unrealistic.

[Edited 2015-06-24 11:06:08]
 
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adamblang
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 28):
Wonder if TP can sell their A350s to a leasing company that has the A330neo on order? Might be a win-win situation - if Airbus allows it.

I'm sure if TAP goes to Airbus and says "we don't want the 12 A350s anymore but we do want 53 other aircraft you offer" Airbus would be willing to work something out.
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LJ
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:19 pm

Quoting gullairACK (Reply 27):
IAH* to LIS for Africa oil feed

And to which African oil cities does TP actually fly to (except for Luanda)? OK We have Dakar, Sao Tomé and Bissau, but that's about it. Moreover, AFAIK there is already a shuttle between Luanda and Houston?

Quoting gullairACK (Reply 27):
IAD* to LIS for Africa feed supporting government traffic as well as ethnic travel.

Don't we have ET for that?

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 28):

Wonder if TP can sell their A350s to a leasing company that has the A330neo on order?

You mean ALC which has both A330neo and A321LR on order.
 
Mitico12
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:48 pm

With the A321LR I can see TP making a pitch for markets like OPO-BOS / LIS-PVD / EWR-TER or EWR-PDL / YUL-LIS and so on...

I think their East Coast feed to UA will also be a factor. Perhaps increasing frequencies from NYC to LIS.
 
gullairACK
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29):
1. DUB is on the natural flight path between North America and Europe, so it's a very convenient transit point (with pre-clearance to boot) LIS requires a southerly detour for most of continental Europe.

2. Ireland has a large tech industry that supports the premium traffic to places like SFO (someone gotta fly to Ireland to hide all the corporate taxes)

I agree, but frequency is not suggested and alot of these new routes would likely be seasonal. LIS could feed cruise traffic seasonally BCN, NCE. FCO, AGP and FCO in the way DL and others load up those locations in the summer. Upscale US tourism to Morocco over AT. They would obviously need to restructure to be low cost/high value as EI have done to win traveler choice, but Neelman is capable as JetBlue has shown.

OAK is already long served by SATA, so the market exists and could be supplemented by additional Star feed from up and down the West Coast. I do not imply both would survive, but I would put money on TAP and Star feed if they went head to head.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 30):
Ireland has lots of economic and ethnic ties and is the closest European country to the US (besides Iceland). Geography, Language, Culture, and Economic ties all give it reasons to have extensive NA ops. TAP has none of this.

Those Irish ties mentioned support the 2/3x daily A330's to key US cities EI serve that TP will never have for the reasons you mention. TAP does not need that volume to add 10 mostly summer seasonal services to get their media soundbite of 10 new routes. They currently only serve 2 and they could easily take SATA's proven routes on. Add one or two Star feed year round that can have Africa feed, add additional seasonal Star feed and Island/OPO service and you can find 10 with NEO aircraft and a lower cost model like EI.

Quoting LJ (Reply 32):
Don't we have ET for that?

ET is quite on overfly for the destinations TP fly to in Africa; West Africa, Maputo and Morrocco. Different markets.

Quoting LJ (Reply 32):
And to which African oil cities does TP actually fly to (except for Luanda)? OK We have Dakar, Sao Tomé and Bissau, but that's about it. Moreover, AFAIK there is already a shuttle between Luanda and Houston?

Well, you've name them with Dakar, Bamako and Accra as well. I am sure Texans would pick Star miles and corporate deals over a charter/non Star carrier.
 
behramjee
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:04 pm

English news link can be read here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...airlines-tap-idUSKBN0P420O20150624

I dont seem to understand though how the A359 would kill TAP if in the 2020 decade its W/B fleet is standardized exclusively around this type? Isnt it a better aircraft to operate, economics wise on long haul flights to Brazil and USA versus the A339?
 
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Polot
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 35):
Isnt it a better aircraft to operate, economics wise on long haul flights to Brazil and USA versus the A339?

LIS-US and LIS-Brazil are not really long haul, or at least long haul for the A350. LIS-LAX, the longest route to the US that TP would realistically operate is about 5000 nm. LIS-GRU is about the longest Brazilian flight and at ~4200 nm it is about as long as one of the shortest transpac flights (SEA-NRT).
 
continental004
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:12 pm

IAD could work, at least seasonally, with the Star connections.
ORD - see above.
SFO - add the ingredient of a large Portuguese diaspora population in Northern California, plus Star connections. This is the only West Coast city that could work for TP.
BOS - late Portuguese diaspora population and seasonal tourism demand.

IAH - maybe, but only based on connections to Africa,

LAX - wishful but no.
DFW - no
SAN - there is a Portuguese community but it is small and the traffic can be funnelled through elsewhere.
 
steve6666
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:54 pm

Putting the US to one side for a minute,

Quoting Brunopt (Thread starter):
- 8 to 10 new routes to Brazil;

Really? They already have the most extensive network of destinations (in terms of number of destinations, if maybe not frequency) of any foreign airline flying to Brazil. Where do they want to add? OK, VCP is obvious, (if they don't already fly there), but then where? Joinville? Maceio? Cuiaba? The obvious secondary destinations they already serve.

On top of which you could question the value of adding frequencies to a country entering a recession whose currency has halved in value over the last four years.
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VCPJetter
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 23):
I´d give Neeleman credit. He´s managed to transform VCP from what was basically a cargo airport with a few pax flights trown in into a reasonably sized hub going from about 1M pax a year in 2008 to almost 10M last year.

I agree. Everything Neeleman did until now turned a success. Also did he always create new demand by thinking out of the box and breaking paradigms.
I would not be surprised to see very unorthodox new things regarding product/network. It sure will be very interesting to see.
For sure TAP will never be the same.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
TAP current US routes are MIA, EWR, BOS, and JFK..

The next 10 would probably be WAS, LAX, SEA, SAN, ORD, ATL, DFW, IAH, SFO, and I don't know the 10th. SJU?

Thoughts?

Sorry.. looks like it's only MIA offered now.. so the 10th would be NYC and remove IAH with BOS

Sorry again.. I meant they currently fly to MIA only..

The next 10 could be WAS, LAX, SEA, ORD, ATL, DFW, IAH, SFO, BOS, and NYC.. SAN was mean to be SFO...
Aiming High and going far..
 
VCPJetter
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 9:50 pm

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 31):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 28):Wonder if TP can sell their A350s to a leasing company that has the A330neo on order? Might be a win-win situation - if Airbus allows it.
I'm sure if TAP goes to Airbus and says "we don't want the 12 A350s anymore but we do want 53 other aircraft you offer" Airbus would be willing to work something out.

Even more if it is David Neeleman, a long time customer since the jetblue deal.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 642
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 40):
Sorry again.. I meant they currently fly to MIA only..

The next 10 could be WAS, LAX, SEA, ORD, ATL, DFW, IAH, SFO, BOS, and NYC.. SAN was mean to be SFO...

They fly to EWR as well.
 
VCPJetter
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 9:50 pm

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 38):
Putting the US to one side for a minute,

Quoting Brunopt (Thread starter):- 8 to 10 new routes to Brazil;
Really? They already have the most extensive network of destinations (in terms of number of destinations, if maybe not frequency) of any foreign airline flying to Brazil. Where do they want to add? OK, VCP is obvious, (if they don't already fly there), but then where? Joinville? Maceio? Cuiaba? The obvious secondary destinations they already serve.

On top of which you could question the value of adding frequencies to a country entering a recession whose currency has halved in value over the last four years.


When he started Azul in VCP, nobody really believed the demand existed. Don't forget the size of the country and the lack of offer. Azul has now 3 or 4 hubs and over one hundred destinations. In terms of network much more than TAM and GOL. This is quite a feeder, don't you think?

Also, anti-cyclic investment is still the best. Brazil will come out of the recession until the planes arrive.

I just miss the connections to the rest of South America. I wonder how he wants to tackle this. I wonder if Azul will go continental when the 60 Airbuses arrive.

The other interesting question is if this move will push Azul into Star Alliance or TAP out of it.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting mfc (Reply 8):
Seriously, I don't see how they could offer 10 more destinations to the U.S.

I think the OP says 10 new flights, not necessarily 10 new US destinations.

tortugamon
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1761
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:59 pm

8 to 10 more destinations in Brazil sounds like a lot. Maybe CWB/FLN/IGU and maybe CGR for the far west travelers? Can FEN hold an A321LR?
@DadCelo
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3664
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:43 pm

Will the new ownership structure affect TP's ability to serve the U.S. in terms of it being (perhaps perceived as) a non-Portuguese/Euro airline by American authorities and, likely, competitors?

Quoting gullairACK (Reply 34):
Quoting LJ (Reply 32):
And to which African oil cities does TP actually fly to (except for Luanda)? OK We have Dakar, Sao Tomé and Bissau, but that's about it. Moreover, AFAIK there is already a shuttle between Luanda and Houston?

Well, you've name them with Dakar, Bamako and Accra as well. I am sure Texans would pick Star miles and corporate deals over a charter/non Star carrier.

Also, Maputo in Mozambique, MPM.
come visit the south pacific
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 28):
Wonder if TP can sell their A350s to a leasing company that has the A330neo on order? Might be a win-win situation - if Airbus allows it.

I'm pretty sure Airbus is willing to swap those 12 A350's for 14 A330neo's and 39 A320neo's.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2129
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:52 pm

I could see PVD/BOS and IAH added, along with maybe IAD but I have a hard time believing there will be an additional 10 routes.

Quoting Miami (Reply 14):
BOS is a no-brainer to everyone nowadays, huh?


What makes it a no-brainer?

I don't know, the Portuguese population in New England? It seems that MIA is a no-brained for you in every other thread regarding a foreign carrier expanding in the US.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
rbrunner
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

RE: New TAP Portugal, NEO's, No A350, +US And +Brazil

Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:22 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 47):
I'm pretty sure Airbus is willing to swap those 12 A350's for 14 A330neo's and 39 A320neo's

Yes, I'm pretty sure they are  

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