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FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:56 am

According to this link*, FR plans daily ORY-FAO and ORY-MAD.

* http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...anair-applies-for-paris-orly-slots
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
AWACSooner
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:30 pm

Well, with BVA just up the road, I doubt that two routes will make a dent in their operations. BUT...if they can make inroads at ORY, look out!!
 
migair54
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:43 am

I think ORY is going to kill BVA slowly the same way BCN has done with GRO and Reus, ORY is a much better market and not only for the pax looking for the cheapest fare, but also for pax travelling for business purposes, this is part of the strategy that is taking FR to main airports to get pax that want a tailor made ticket.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
with BVA just up the road,

Whoever flies to BVA is going to Paris, almost on a 99% of the times, and for that ORY is well much better, so moving some important routes to ORY will be great for many pax. Actually ORY is the best airport in Paris for Domestic French flights and very good for many other destination within Europe, so watch out AF, this are very bad news for them.
The problem will be the number of slots they can get, that´s why in the article FR says that they wanted CDG, that means that they will need many more slots, so they are planning to make it big.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:59 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
I think ORY is going to kill BVA slowly the same way BCN has done with GRO and Reus, ORY is a much better market and not only for the pax looking for the cheapest fare, but also for pax travelling for business purposes, this is part of the strategy that is taking FR to main airports to get pax that want a tailor made ticket.

I think they'll initially limit ORY to just expanding crucial business routes...BVA will continue to be the bread-and-butter tourist airport
 
VFRonTop
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:22 am

Very interesting to see FR expand into the more established airports. I wonder where is next? LIN, AMS, MUC, FRA?
I still think they have a lot more work to do to improve their image and business offering. That said they maybe they are more interested in the smaller SME business travellers not chasing the major corporates which would expect a frequent flyer programme, lounges and the ilk.
 
migair54
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:36 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
.BVA will continue to be the bread-and-butter tourist airport

So far it will be, but I think the movement has started and there´s no way back, BVA will downsize slowly if ORY or CDG give FR enough slots.

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 4):
I wonder where is next? LIN, AMS, MUC, FRA?
I still think they have a lot more work to do to improve their image and business offering

If i´m not mistaken they were approaching MUC airport to see if they can get a good deal, but i´m not sure what happened with that.
What about FRA?? big operation in Hahn so maybe they can start trying to get some FRA slots.
 
VFRonTop
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 5):
Not LIN anytime soon, I suspect, at least not until the fire damaged terminal buildings have been repaired/replaced

Yes very true, forgot about the LIN fire.
I wonder what will happen to these secondary airports as FR (and other LCCs) move towards more of the major airports. Will they maintain services to both airports or will they move operations lock stock to the majors and allow a new generation of ULLCs a foot in the door at airports like:
Barcelona - GRO
Dusseldorf - NRN
Venice - TSF
Copenhagen - MMX
Paris - BVA
 
Andy33
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:09 am

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 7):
Yes very true, forgot about the LIN fire.

Actually it's me that's wrong - it was FCO that had the fire!
 
VFRonTop
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:09 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
i´m not sure what happened with that.

Hmm perhaps the O'Leary way of negotiating doesn't translate well into German
 
foxxray
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
I think ORY is going to kill BVA slowly the same way BCN has done with GRO and Reus

ORY will never overkill BVA. Maybe CDG will if RYR is able to pay the price.
ORY is slots limited (250000 mvts/year). Even if RYR obtain those few slots, they won't get many more in the future.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:39 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 7):

I was gonna say: "Why can't the Italians prevent their airports from burning down!"  
 
SCQ83
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:49 pm

I agree I don't think ORY will kill BVA.

"Major" destinations are underdeveloped at BVA because it is so inconvenient. For instance, BVA to MAD is or used to be one or two daily... compared to the dozens of daily flights at ORY+CDG combined (Air Europa, Air France, Iberia, Vueling, easyJet, Transavia)

I flew BVA-MAD once and certainly the passengers were different to those of ORY or CDG flying to MAD. In addition to the Eurodisney crowd (probably just booked the cheapest fare and this happened to be the cheapest fare and likely didn't know about the 17 EUR or so fare to Porte Maillot   and the lack of business travellers, by hearing at some conversations, a good number of passengers seemed to come from places like Amiens, Lille... so at a regional level BVA is convenient for some people, and for large markets like MAD it can probably sustain one daily flight in addition to the tons of ORYCDG flights.

And this is BVA which is probably the most inconvenient Ryanair airport! But this is completely overlooked here in airliners.net. Airports like CRL, BGY, HHN might be more inconvenient for the "main" city their are targeting but they are in fact the reference airport for other regions which in some cases have several million people (Bergamo is the perfect example with very convenient access for Veneto, Lombardia and Emilia-Romana; or Hahn that gets people from Germany, Luxembourg and Lorraine-Alsace in France).
 
AWACSooner
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting foxxray (Reply 9):
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
I think ORY is going to kill BVA slowly the same way BCN has done with GRO and Reus

ORY will never overkill BVA. Maybe CDG will if RYR is able to pay the price.
ORY is slots limited (250000 mvts/year). Even if RYR obtain those few slots, they won't get many more in the future.

That was not my quote...please rectify.
 
goldorak
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:24 pm

I think you are all overexcited here in this thread. They have just applied for some slots. Will they get them is a completely different story   
 
fiddlerkrt
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
I think ORY is going to kill BVA slowly the same way BCN has done with GRO and Reus, ORY is a much better market and not only for the pax looking for the cheapest fare, but also for pax travelling for business purposes, this is part of the strategy that is taking FR to main airports to get pax that want a tailor made ticket.

An interesting point. One other (perhaps) relevant comparison is PIK and GLA. FR used to fly exclusively into PIK and at their peak had roughly 20-25 daily departures or so with at least double daily to STN and DUB. Sadly, this has dropped dramatically and both the DUB and STN route have moved to GLA. It will be interesting to see the strategy FR pursue in the Paris area particularly since U2 has a sizable presence at both CDG and ORY already.
 
planesarecool
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 6):
Dusseldorf - NRN

This one is slightly different. Around 95% of traffic at NRN is outbound, it serves a fairly sizable population in both Germany and the Netherlands. Ryanair have actually increased NRN ops this year.
 
migair54
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 13):
I think you are all overexcited here in this thread. They have just applied for some slots. Will they get them is a completely different story   

Why wouldn´t FR get them?? Is there any reason for that??

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 11):
"Major" destinations are underdeveloped at BVA because it is so inconvenient. For instance, BVA to MAD is or used to be one or two daily... compared to the dozens of daily flights at ORY+CDG combined (Air Europa, Air France, Iberia, Vueling, easyJet, Transavia)

When I talk about killing is not completly closing, but transfering many flights to ORY, major destinations could attract better fares if they operate from ORY, places like MAD, CIA, OPO, LIS, MAN, DUB, Stockolm, Oslo, however many other destinations oriented to low fare pax will make more money in BVA, Canary Islands, Morocco, beach zones in the Mediterrean.
 
Humberside
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:20 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 16):
Quoting goldorak (Reply 13):I think you are all overexcited here in this thread. They have just applied for some slots. Will they get them is a completely different story

Why wouldn´t FR get them?? Is there any reason for that??

Available slots are limited, and heavily over-subscribed. The Summer 2015 slot award had the following requests

Quote:
Fly Be (1 daily flight to Exeter), La Compagnie – DreamJet (13 weekly flights to Newark), Darwin Airlines – Etihad Regional (2 daily flights to Zürich), EasyJet Switzerland (11 weekly flights to Hamburg and 2 daily flights to Munich), Meridiana Fly Spa (2 daily flights to Milan Malpensa), Norwegian (3 weekly flights to Helsinki), Vueling (1 daily flight to Florence, 1 daily flight to Fuerteventura, 1 daily flight to Bologna and 1 daily flight to Lanzarote).

With the following slots awarded

Quote:

As new entrant (1144 slots):
•EasyJet Switzerland : 728 slots for 1 daily flight to Hamburg [article 2b ii) of the Slot Regulation]
•Norwegian : 312 slots for 3 weekly flights to Helsinki [article 2b ii) of the Slot Regulation]
•Vueling : 104 slots for 1 weekly flight to Florence [article 2b ii) of the Slot Regulation]

As incumbents (1144 slots):
•Transavia France : 728 slots, equivalent to 1 daily flight
•Air Caraïbes : 312 slots, equivalent to 3 weekly flights
•Vueling : 104 slots, equivalent to 1 weekly flight
http://www.cohor.org/en/ory-29102014-distribution-dun-nouveau-pool/

So Ryanair would be far from guaranteed to get any new slots due to the level of demand compared to the limited supply, but do have a chance. Building a large operation quickly though through the regular slot allocation process however seems impossible without an airline serving ORY leaving/going out of business

[Edited 2015-06-28 05:23:26]
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N1120A
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
What about FRA?? big operation in Hahn so maybe they can start trying to get some FRA slots.

LH will probably put up a huge fight against that.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
eicvd
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):

& how could LH possibly stop FR from flying to FRA?
COYBIB
 
r2rho
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting foxxray (Reply 9):
ORY is slots limited (250000 mvts/year).

That's quite severe; with a runway capacity of 76 ops/hour I expect ORY could handle 300-350000 if unrestricted. Is it for noise reasons or to protect CDG? Or both?
 
thaiflyer
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:45 pm

According to the Dutch newspaper FR received 9 slots at AMS starting from this winter schedule.
They have untill end if August to accept it.
 
bobdino
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:04 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
What about FRA?? big operation in Hahn so maybe they can start trying to get some FRA slots.

LH will probably put up a huge fight against that.

That would be illegal, in Europe at least. Here's an explainer:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/air/airports/slots_en.htm
 
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Aesma
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RE: FR Applies For Slots At ORY

Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:24 am

ORY being my home airport I might finally end up on a Ryanair flight, maybe not even by choice if my company buys the tickets. BVA is not practical at all.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 20):
Quoting foxxray (Reply 9):
ORY is slots limited (250000 mvts/year).

That's quite severe; with a runway capacity of 76 ops/hour I expect ORY could handle 300-350000 if unrestricted. Is it for noise reasons or to protect CDG? Or both?

Noise.
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