captjetblast
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:43 am

Hi:

This is horrible. this has just happened here in Argentina. A popular woman from the TV shows (I can't even name her a actress) was invited to the cockpit in a commercial flight during take off and landing phases, something, as far as I know, absolutely forbidden.

The news site is in Spanish and of course the video is in Spanish too, but I'm sure you will get the story. You will see the picture which contains the link to the video; I'm posting it in frustration and in the hope that this will reach the appropriate levels.

Flifht 2708 of Austral Líneas Aéreas

http://www.infobae.com/2015/06/25/17...al-y-viajo-la-cabina-todo-el-vuelo
 
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alberchico
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:48 am

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):
something, as far as I know, absolutely forbidden.

In the US, I imagine other countries are more relaxed about this. Look at all the Just Planes documentaries.
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
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airportugal310
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:52 am

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):
I'm posting it in frustration and in the hope that this will reach the appropriate levels.

Calm down. Their are far worse things going on in the world to be "outraged" about

[Edited 2015-06-25 17:53:35]
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
cbphoto
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:55 am

She's pretty good looking! I would let her hang up front with me as well!    

What alberchico says is correct though, this sort of stuff is much more relaxed in most parts of the world. Unless it is against company rules, or general culture (like in the US) then the Captain is the one who has the final say about almost anything on board the flight!
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LimaFoxTango
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:31 am

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):
....invited to the cockpit in a commercial flight during take off and landing phases, something, as far as I know, absolutely forbidden.

In the world that exist outside the US, this practice is still allowed although it's getting rarer and rarer. The "visitor" usually stays in the flight deck the entire flight and usually not allowed to enter or exit during flight(execpt of course if nature calls). Airline staff and relatives of crew are often given rides up front.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
wingman
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:38 am

If I'm hearing that audio right she's the one actually moving the throttles on T/O. I'd say those two boys are going to be on the main avenue banging pots with the rest of unemployed Buenos Aires by Monday. I never ceased to be amazed by stupidity.
 
N766UA
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:57 am

A chick in the cockpit is horrible?! 9/11 was horrible.
 
liftsifter
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:43 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 7):
A chick in the cockpit is horrible?! 9/11 was horrible.

              
A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B736 B737 B738 B744 B763 B77L B77E B77W B788 E190
 
mandala499
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 4):
She's pretty good looking! I would let her hang up front with me as well!

Rules aside... Chatty visitors are... well, sorry, not this one, she's beyond chatty! She's too bloody noisy! Sorry! If she can't stop chatting during take off and landing rolls... Get her out!
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
IPFreely
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:55 am

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):
I'm posting it in frustration and in the hope that this will reach the appropriate levels.

What appropriate levels? Do you want it to reach the people who most likely approved her visit to the cockpit in the first place?
 
b747400erf
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:10 am

Is there an Argentine law they broke with this? The hyperbole this forum has become is uncalled for. Everything is some huge tragedy or outrage. I thought we were all mature enough to not become the Daily Mail of anutters
 
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77west
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:16 am

I think the only issues here was maybe the amount of noise she made, not the fact that she is a female, or on the flight deck, or even that she advanced the thrust levers.
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Francoflier
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:08 am

Jumpseat policies with many airlines mean that everyday, there are people who aren't airline crew travelling in cockpits using the privileges of airline staff travel benefits.

If the brother of a flight attendant is allowed in there, why not a famous actress? If one applies a shred of common sense (if that is still allowed in this industry), she cannot really be considered a safety threat. As for distracting the pilots, well, she did that, surely, and I can see why...   

But that is their responsibility. As long as they keep flying safe.
What I find quite sad is that they would lose their professionalism and start acting like overexcited 8 year olds because a pretty famous girl was in there. That's pretty pathetic if I'm honest.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
aklrno
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:08 am

I think the issue here is that the flight crew showed complete disregard for the safety of their passengers, two airports, and everyone else in the air around them. When I first read this I thought it was someone sitting in the jump seat. It was far worse. She never stopped talking to them, and they never stopped talking to her. If there was a death penalty option for pilot negligence, these two should be first in line.

Remember what happened to the Russian plane whose pilot let his son sit in the left front seat during cruise? This is even worse, in my opinion. The pilots were barely paying attention during takeoff and landing.

They were lucky. Nothing went wrong, so they could be relaxed. Had something gone wrong could they have noticed and reacted quickly enough? If those two aren't fired and subjected to criminal penalties then that airline should be banned from every airport on the planet.
 
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77west
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting aklrno (Reply 14):
If there was a death penalty option for pilot negligence, these two should be first in line

Which us state executes people for negligence? Or am I thinking of NKorea or Syria? What they allowed on their flight deck was stupid, but really, calling for them to be killed is just plain, well, oh I give up....
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aklrno
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:37 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 15):
Which us state executes people for negligence? Or am I thinking of NKorea or Syria? What they allowed on their flight deck was stupid, but really, calling for them to be killed is just plain, well, oh I give up....

Come on, I wasn't serious about that (I said if there were such a thing...), but some criminal penalty is justified.
 
wjcandee
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:02 am

Nothing wrong with a famous visitor on the flight deck if it's not against the country/airline's regs.

It's at least a little safety issue just because of showing off and such. And more so if she's a distraction. Which, since she never shut up, she was.

Illegal? I dunno Argentina law. Smart? Not so much.

However, by the time we get to letting a civilian move the throttles on a flight transporting paying passengers, we've gone too far as a matter of safety, mostly-because it means judgment and situational awareness are now out the window.

Nine times out of ten, or more, it isn't going to be a problem. But that's not the safety standard applicable to commercial aviation these days.

I don't think an hysterical response is in order, but at the end of the day, this really isn't appropriate.
 
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Semaex
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:14 am

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 5):
In the world that exist outside the US,

 


If I recall correctly I have jumpseated on TK once, LH twice, 4U four times and on GAF thrice. All just being a regular passenger.
I know on flights to/from the US and UK jumpseating is prohibited by law. And then of course the PIC has the last word in all other flights. I practically always ask for a jumpseat whenever I board a plane. If the pilots are cool with it I'm happy as a young dog, but if not they are usually kind enough to tell me the reasons, eg company policy or a checkright or what not...
Mind you, I don't ever touch anything and below FL100 I'm quiet as a dead man.


Calling this AR PR-stunt "horrible" and "frustrating" is more than just a stretch too far on the sensationalist news front.
 no 

[Edited 2015-06-26 01:19:49]
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast if you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
aklrno
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:44 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 17):
I don't think an hysterical response is in order, but at the end of the day, this really isn't appropriate.

Airlines have been banned from the US and EU for maintenance issues. Abysmally bad cockpit procedures should get the same treatment. I'm not talking about a silent visitor in the jump seat, but that video showed completely unacceptable behavior.
 
peterjohns
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:52 am

Quoting Semaex (Reply 18):
Mind you, I don't ever touch anything and below FL100

Hmm.. What do you touch above FL 100 then !??
 
Toni_
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:59 am

For those who are finding this whole thing acceptable... Maybe you didn't see the video, maybe it is the bad quality, or perhaps the Spanish language didn't make things clear. She's not just being a chatty and loud jumpseater, but they actually let her push the throttles forward during take-off.

The pilot at least managed to find some decency to tell her to shut up during that take off roll. But with the sterile cockpit rule in mind, the last thing you want to hear during approach is how gorgeous and shiny the runway looks and that "we're going to land" repeatedly.

This is incredibly stupid. And the good thing is that the pilot knows it too as he asks Vicky to not make the video public during the taxi. In which she replies: "no, that would put us all in prison, haha". Tough days ahead for the pilot with the visits to the job centre. Plus I think I saw wedding ring on his finger, so he probably has a lot of explaining to do at home too.

[Edited 2015-06-26 03:01:09]

[Edited 2015-06-26 03:02:40]
 
PlaneInsomniac
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:34 pm

Not sure if something got lost in translation here, but if this is a "girl", I'd like to know what a woman looks like in that part of the world. The link provided by the OP is basically NSFW.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
captjetblast
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:36 pm

Yes she moved the throttles.

And let me tell you that both pilots were fired and she will be charged. And now she is in a watch list and can´t fly Aerolineas Argentinas or Austral Líneas Aéreas for 5 years.

Today I heard the CEO explaining the rules that were violated.
 
797
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:36 pm

As per an Aerolineas Argentinas press release, both pilots and the flight's crew were fired. The visiting lady has also been banned to fly with Austral and Aerolineas Argentinas for five years. There will also be a criminal proceeding against them for violating a regulation regarding safety during flight.

This was a VERY serious matter. The "Sterile Cockpit" rule was severely violated by these two idiots, who were clearly hitting on the girl throughout the entire flight.

They not only let her push the throttles during takeoff, but allowed her to speak out loud during critical phases of flight. She was laughing and asking questions during short final, as well as during takeoff. The co-pilot even asked her to shut up while the aircraft was accelerating at 80 knots.

For those of you who don't understand Spanish, the Captain even told the lady: "You're not publishing this video, right? If I go down for this, you're coming with me!" He is also seen taking selfies while taxiing the aircraft for departure.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 10):
What appropriate levels? Do you want it to reach the people who most likely approved her visit to the cockpit in the first place?

AR fired both pilots and crew. This was a serious matter!

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 17):
Nothing wrong with a famous visitor on the flight deck if it's not against the country/airline's regs.

How about pushing the throttles and distracting the crew during critical phases of flight? These guys wanted to get inside this lady's pants. And I bet they did.

Find below AR's communicate (translated with Google Translate):

Quote:
SANCTIONS AIRLINE PILOTS FLYING 2708
In connection with the events that occurred during the flight AR2708 on Monday June 22, Aerolineas Argentinas and Austral state that the Patrick Zocchi Molina and Federico Matias Soaje, pilots will be dismissed as well as all other staff who have responsibility in the event. Also criminal proceedings against the above mentioned and against the passenger involved, under Article 190 of the penal code will begin to put flight safety at risk.[b]

Without limiting the foregoing, and in accordance with the provisions of the internal regulations of the company (Manual of Procedures for loading passengers at the '' Watch list '') for disruptive passengers, it is reported that [b]the passenger will be prevented from flying for five years in Aerolineas and Austral under the right of admission available to the company.


The company confirms its continuing commitment to safety and the respect for political and safety protocols. In pursuit of this it is that not only tolerates no deviation internal policies but all legal actions to sanction this serious episode was also initiated. The behavior of the pilots, also rejected by the professional association that represents it, is totally contrary to the safety culture of Southern Airlines.
Buenos Aires, June 25, 2015

They should be fired and have their licenses removed. Reckless, stupidity. There are so many pilots wishing to fly... these two asswipes surely deserve to be removed from their positions.

797
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
captjetblast
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:37 pm

Just give me time and I will transcribe the translated version of the voices. Though I bet someone will post a translated version soon.
 
b747400erf
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:49 pm

The auto throttle is activated on takeoff, so she really isn't manipulating the throttles
 
tonyban
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):
I'm posting it in frustration and in the hope that this will reach the appropriate levels.

I don't see anything wrong here. Why the frustration...if anything...I'd be jealous !
 
captjetblast
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:33 pm

The transcript. Please keep in mind that the flight time is longer.

P = Pilot(s); V = Vicky; T = Tower; (my comments in parentheses)

V: we are at take off, he is the pilot, he is the other pilot...today I make the trip here, we are going to Rosario; look! that guy is signalling as a stewardess (the guy on the tarmac signalling the pilots)...What's this? Show me!
P: one normal; two cleared? (I'm translating literally, I don't master aviation jargon)
V: Uh! The engine is starting!...I'm filming everything! He is laughing, he is the one that invited me (into the cockpit) (LOL), no nobody sees him. Uh, when that one signals we must take off?
P: he is telling us to keep station
V: Uh
P: now this engine is starting
V: yes
P: and there's a technician at the other side
V: where, in the runway?
P: yes, he is checking the engine; after that, a couple of procedures and when he leaves we start the engine. I'm ashamed, I'm in panic, intimidated (he refers to her presence there)
V: No, I'm going to...I will study all of this. This one has already started, hasn't it?
P: of course
V: what did you touch there?...Are we going? Yes...what are you listening to?
P: Vicky...
V: let's go
P: let's go!
V: let's go fly! Now he leaves (the guy on the tarmac), that means we are going...I'm scared! Please drive this thing nice! ("drive" as if it was a car)
P: hadn't you been in the cockpit before?
V: no
P: first time, really?
V: yes, please do it as best as you can! I'm scared! (she creams)
P: how are you doing?
V: don't know 'cos we haven't taken off! C' mon, here's the pilot...c'mon you drive honey...leave that phone (?) right now because it frightens me! Bye, I love you...is that the engine?
P: this will not be braadcasted in Showmatch (a TV show), will it?
V: no, don't worry...(otherwise) we will all go to jail (LOL)
P: Listen Vicky, I will go down, but you will go with me
V: Uh, you wanna take me with you, don't you?
P: that is obvious, since you entered the cockpit. But I tell you, if I fall from grace...
V: no no, look: another one (plane) has just arrived! Ok let's go. Let's go! We're gonna take off!! Do everything well!
P: now he (the other pilot) will take off
V: won't you?
P: No, we take turns.
V: and now you feel like taking off (she says to the other pilot)?
P: yes, now I want to take off, and as he is a good guy, he lets me do it now.
V: ok let's go guys. We're gonna take off (she shouts)
P: do you want me to tell you about everything?
V: yes I want everything (?)
P: while on the ground we follow the yellow line
V: yes
P: those are the taxiways, delimited by blue lights, and there is the runway, it has a white line at the center
V: Uh, won't we take off using this one?
P: no
V: uh, we're turning around. Now how do you speed up? What are you speeding up?
P: he will show you
V: now the plane goes on its own! Uh, after inertia
P: this is like stepping on the clutch, engaging the first gear and releasing the clutch, the car will move
V: I see, now if you want to stop it?
P: here are the brakes
V: uh. Close to your feet?
P: yes, at both sides
V: nice, what a nice moment
P: but you have brakes for each wheel
V: no no no I want to speed up, we are ready for take off! Is this the throttle?
P: yes, when I tell you, you will push it a little forward
V: I'm scared! I will throttle and we will take off... are you sure of what you're doing? Yes? This is the throttle...turn a light on because I want to film this...I'm gong to do it. you sure? Can something happen? It's a critical moment.
P: a little more, a little more
V: now?
P: Shhhhh! (shut up!)
V: now?
T: Austral 2708 cleared for take off rwy 13
P: we are cleared for take off rwy 13 Austral 2708
V: yes...I'm speeding. And it's moving. More?
P: forward
V: guys, I'm doing it! Yes? (scream) You guys d it well! I sped the plane and it's moving! Are you sure of what we did? Aren't you the enemy and you want to...
P: now we shut up!
P: 80
P: yes
V: I'm scared (one of the few times she speaks in a low volume)
P: V1, V2, rotate, etc.
V: what's that noise?
P: the gear is up
T: 2315 traffic in localizer it is a 737, next to Oscar Papa (etc.)
P: Austral 2708
V: there's a plane out there?
T: copied 2708 you took off after 5 minutes crossing 3000 Baires (at) 249
P: crossing Baires 249 good-bye, thanks
T: see you later
V: we will land soon so careful with what you say!...Now who lands it? You?
P: me, me
V: will you do everything? And you, what will you do?
P: on the return flight I will fly it to EZE
V: is that (the city of) Rosario? We are arriving at Rosario
P: do you have a wedding ring?
V: no it belongs to mom and dad
P: ok
V: the wedding ring is used in the other hand
P: you're right
V: we are arriving! I took off the plane!
P: you took off?
V: who lands it? Him?
P: Fede (Frederick) will land now.
V: and you?
P: I flew it, Pato, he is Patricio, I'm Fede
V: I'm Vicky. Bye, we are going to land. Arriving at Rosario, look! See the city?
P: that is Rosario, that is the river
V: yes of course, I will fasten my seat belt. Let's film how he fastens my seat belt.
filmed. Oops, you'r squeezing me, daddy... (laughs)
P: no. Anyway you are thin. As I see you, I start trembling, I feel as a stupid guy
V: don't.
V: Ready? Am I fastened?
P: you are ok. You look really nice. Pretty squeezed.
V: arriving at Rosario. Really nice to fly here. It's my first time here (in a cockpit)
P: really?
V: are you happy?
P: I'm happy. I try not to be seen as an idiot. The captain is half stupid.
P: I'm happy, I want you to know it (speaking to her)
V: I'm here thanks to you
P: why?
V: you invited me
P: Vicky, this plane somehow belongs to you
V: why?
P: because we taxpayers pay for it (the company is state-run)
V: (LOL) they pay for it with all the money they take from me
P: you break you a..s..s... working, then, well...
V: yes, literally (?)
V: we are landing, see the runway right there. What a nice runway! We are in Rosario!
(approaching minimuns)
V: this is nice! Nice runway!
(she doesn't stop talking even as the automated cockpit voices can be heard)
V: there is the runway, look! It's astounding how it can be seen. Nice!
P: it's nice, isn't it?
V: like an adhesive tape
(LOL)
P: I liked it, I liked it!
V: look, we are landing soon!
V: land correctly, I will not speak to you anymore (isn't it too late?)
V: we land...that's it, we landed!
P: Was it hard? did you feel it?
V: No, it was great!
P: great! You both are genius (claps). Let's go! Thanks! You're great. We arrived at Rosario. Bye!
 
wingman
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:38 pm

Either way she's going on about moving the throttles and asking them "wow, am I really doing the take-off?". Essentially she has her hands in critical control areas during what is arguably the most dangerous phase of the flight and these two jackasses are trying to communicate to each other and ATC while showing off and asking her to shut up so they can hear and be heard.

No thanks man. The ironic thing is that isn't the most shocking part of the video, it's the video itself and the fact that the pilots allowed her to film in the cockpit and then leave the plane with the recording.
 
burnsie28
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
Look at all the Just Planes documentaries.

Things like that can get special permits from the FAA. A lot of countries outside the US have more relaxed rules.
 
captjetblast
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:58 pm

I feel a bit dissapointed after reading so manny comments trying to justify here presence in the cockpit.

She spent all the flight as a distraction for the pilots, not to mention in the most critical phases of a flight, landing and take-off.

Rules are rules. No matter how relaxed are some countries. Nice to see that here it will not be tolerated.
 
Fabo
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting captjetblast (Reply 30):
I feel a bit dissapointed after reading so manny comments trying to justify here presence in the cockpit.

Her presence as such should not be an issue. The fact that we are even discussing this means that terrorists won (in a way).

Quoting captjetblast (Reply 30):
She spent all the flight as a distraction for the pilots, not to mention in the most critical phases of a flight, landing and take-off.

With that, I can agree. THAT part was just idiotic.

Really she should have gotten the checklist and kept to it:

The light at the end of tunnel turned out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
cschleic
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 19):
Hmm.. What do you touch above FL 100 then !??

I think he's saying he never touches anything at all, and below 10,000 feet doesn't talk either.
 
ytz
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):

You come off as more jealous than upset...sorry to say.

The pilots lost their jobs for their unprofessionalism. So why are you so upset?
 
FighterPilot
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting captjetblast (Thread starter):
captjetblast

You're kidding right?


As a pilot not working for an airline I would love to go upfront during a flight and learn more about airline ops, aircraft specifics, etc.
However, after 9/11 the cockpit has become this magical, off limits, restricted area. As such the general public freaks out anytime something like this happens. Oh well, I'll just have to go work for the airlines to figure out what al the fuss is about...

Cal   
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
Birdwatching
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:04 pm

I fly in the cockpit jump seat a lot, have done it many many times in the last 10 years, in countries all around the world (not the US obviously). I'm not working for the airlines, just a regular, fare paying passenger.

So in answer to some comments above, having a passenger in the cockpit is perfectly normal, safe, an in no way unprofessional. I've been invited by flight crews from Germany, Great Britain, Chile, Argentina, Moldova, Bangladesh, Norway, Iceland, Ecuador, Sweden, Malaysia and Iran, so to me this is proof that inviting a passenger to fly in the cockpit is common practice all around the world and not only in "certain countries".

I've always strictly followed some basic, self-imposed rules. I don't say a thing or make a sound, unless asked or in a conversation started by the crew. I don't touch anything. And before taking photos or video, I ask the crew if that's ok, and in which way I'm permitted to share or show around the footage.

As a result, I've spent some unforgettable time in the cockpit without interfering with the crew's work or getting anybody fired.

I hope to spend many more flights in the cockpit, but I'm afraid events like the one in this video may ruin if for everybody.

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
captjetblast
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 33):
So why are you so upset?

I was upset until I learned both pilots were fired.

And she will face charges.

So far so good.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 6):
A chick in the cockpit is horrible?

Yes it is, especially one that doesn't know when to shut up ! Man she never stopped talking !   

Talk about a distraction ! I'd go nuts and would have thrown her out of the cockpit immediately !

After terrorists, that's probably the second worst thing that can enter a cockpit. A chick taking a video and that won't shut up !

Bottom line, regulations were broken. They got what was coming to them !

Quoting captjetblast (Reply 30):
She spent all the flight as a distraction for the pilots, not to mention in the most critical phases of a flight, landing and take-off.

Rules are rules. No matter how relaxed are some countries. Nice to see that here it will not be tolerated.

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[Edited 2015-06-26 10:43:08]
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spacecadet
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:33 pm

Quoting captjetblast (Reply 30):
I feel a bit dissapointed after reading so manny comments trying to justify here presence in the cockpit.

It's pretty amazing, isn't it? You would think a.netters would be a little savvier than this when it comes to aviation safety.

The US has spent more than any other country on research and investment in aviation safety. One of the things we've learned - and which we've been all too happy to share with the world, so there's no excuse for anyone to not know about it - is that a sterile cockpit below 10,000 feet should apply. Too many accidents have been caused by distracted pilots at critical phases of flight. Since instituting that rule, such accidents have become exceedingly rare. The rules work.

And btw, that rule has been in place since 1981. It had nothing to do with 9/11. And everyone in the world has been able to see how safety has improved as a result.

I don't know what the rules actually are in Argentina, but just because there isn't a rule doesn't mean there shouldn't be one. (And it sounds like there was at least a company rule, which is better than nothing.)

I'm glad these guys were fired. They deserved it.
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peterjohns
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 38):
It's pretty amazing, isn't it? You would think a.netters would be a little savvier than this when it comes to aviation safety.

The US has spent more than any other country on research and investment in aviation safety. One of the things we've learned - and which we've been all too happy to share with the world, so there's no excuse for anyone to not know about it - is that a sterile cockpit below 10,000 feet should apply. Too many accidents have been caused by distracted pilots at critical phases of flight. Since instituting that rule, such accidents have become exceedingly rare. The rules work.

And btw, that rule has been in place since 1981. It had nothing to do with 9/11. And everyone in the world has been able to see how safety has improved as a result.

I don't know what the rules actually are in Argentina, but just because there isn't a rule doesn't mean there shouldn't be one. (And it sounds like there was at least a company rule, which is better than nothing.)

I'm glad these guys were fired. They deserved it.

I would quite like to oppose you on that.
It simply is not quite right and not based on facts. According to you- if only the assigned crew are in the cockpit, nothing happens. Well, since GermanWings in France we all know better. If this "celebrity" would have have been in the Cockpit- that wouldn´t have happened.
I have flown in the Cockpit on numerous flights (air traffic controller) and sometimes did the complete R/T for the crew. Two more eyes see more - and six hear and see even more than four.
So I declare your statement is not correct- it depends very much on WHO is additionally in the cockpit.
It can be a distraction- but it could be a great help (ever heared of Salt Lake City DC10)

That you are glad these guys were fired ( were they even?) clearly places yourself not to be in the airline buisness.
It shows that you do not have a deeper knowledge of how things work and unfortunately think you do.
That is - sadly- the biggist aftermath after 9/11.
 
bennett123
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:12 pm

In the case of the DC10 at Salt Lake City (?), the person in the cockpit was another pilot, he helped avert a disaster.

In this instance, the person in the cockpit was a non pilot causing a potential distraction.

IMO, a wholly different situation.

Regarding the pilots, it is hard to see how they could concentrate on flying the plane.

IMO, allowing this situation was seriously poor judgement.
 
757gb
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:18 pm

Besides the legality of lack thereof... as an Austral passenger: how would you feel knowing that this bimbo was playing with the throttles of the plane at take off? The passengers who flew and then found out about it probable weren't too happy. I wouldn't be.
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spacecadet
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 40):
It simply is not quite right and not based on facts. According to you- if only the assigned crew are in the cockpit, nothing happens.

Did you quote the wrong person? When did I say that?

It's not clear to me that you understand what a "sterile cockpit" means.

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 40):
That is - sadly- the biggist aftermath after 9/11.

Now I know that you *must* have quoted the wrong person, because I quite clearly said the sterile cockpit rule has been around in the US since 1981. Which, as someone "in the airline business", you should have known before I had to point it out (twice). I'd be extremely surprised if Germany doesn't have the exact same rule.

[Edited 2015-06-26 14:39:32]
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meneses24
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting 757gb (Reply 42):
as an Austral passenger: how would you feel knowing that this bimbo was playing with the throttles of the plane at take off? The passengers who flew and then found out about it probable weren't too happy. I wouldn't be.

Definitely a thumbs down for Aerolineas and Austral. It will be a matter of time and many pax might start playing jokes as soon as they get onboard their flights. "Can I push the throttles?" and stuff like that.

I fly for an airline as a FO and a few days after the Germanwings accident happened, one passenger asked me if I was feeling depressed or upset  
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757gb
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting meneses24 (Reply 44):
I fly for an airline as a FO and a few days after the Germanwings accident happened, one passenger asked me if I was feeling depressed or upset  

I'm not a pilot myself, but I imagine that must be frustrating. I bet nobody ever comments on the millions of flights that take off and land safely every year. But then something like the Germanwings crash happens and one person ruins the faith of many passengers for a very long time  
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
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meneses24
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:54 pm

Quoting 757gb (Reply 45):
I'm not a pilot myself, but I imagine that must be frustrating. I bet nobody ever comments on the millions of flights that take off and land safely every year. But then something like the Germanwings crash happens and one person ruins the faith of many passengers for a very long time  

Yeah definitely! I took it by the good side and just told him in a very professional way that he didn't have to worry about. I've heard other stories about other flight attendants and colleagues just like this one.

But because of this Argentinean incident and the Germanwings one, cockpits will be again, with all spotlights on.

[Edited 2015-06-26 14:56:08]
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AR385
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 3):
She's pretty good looking! I would let her hang up front with me as well!

Man...you need glasses.

Quoting wingman (Reply 5):
If I'm hearing that audio right she's the one actually moving the throttles on T/O.

Isn´t it only the autothrottle she moved?

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):
What appropriate levels? Do you want it to reach the people who most likely approved her visit to the cockpit in the first place?

It did. Read upthread the consequences...(so far)

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 10):
Is there an Argentine law they broke with this?

Apparently, many.

Quoting 797 (Reply 23):
As per an Aerolineas Argentinas press release, both pilots and the flight's crew were fired. The visiting lady has also been banned to fly with Austral and Aerolineas Argentinas for five years. There will also be a criminal proceeding against them for violating a regulation regarding safety during flight.

The ban on the *cough* "lady" *cough*, I believe is excessive. The idiots were the pilots. People like her in Argentina are so ignorant (I would be surprised if she finished elementary school) that it´s hard to imagine that she knew what she was doing was wrong. In a twitt she just sent, she said she had no idea. Futhermore, according to her, she was invited into the cockpit by these two imbeciles. The firing of those I find correct.

Quoting meneses24 (Reply 44):
Definitely a thumbs down for Aerolineas and Austral.

Why? Have you seen how they´ve reacted? It´s not just "damage control" for PR reasons. They fired the idiots. They are investigating who else knew what was going on, plus a criminal investigation has been launched, and the "actress" has been banned for 5 years form flying AR. That pretty much sentences her to long bus journeys.

I´m all for a Captain inviting a passenger to the jumpseat. As long as he strapps the passenger tight to the seat, tells him/her not say a word until told otherwise, not to touch ANYTHING and ignores said invitee for most phases of the flight. These two? They were having a party up there...
 
ZeeZoo
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Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:48 pm

On one hand I'm thinking "no big deal" but on the other, if a close one was on that flight (girlfriend/wife/parents/children) and I saw the pilots and her screwing around like that? I'd be absolutely livid.

Both pilots sacked? Rightly so, serve as an example.
 
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andrefranca
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
In the US, I imagine other countries are more relaxed about this. Look at all the Just Planes documentaries.

Yes, I got a few rides on the cockpit as my ex-BF was co pilot for JJ!
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
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777Jet
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Woman In The Cockpit At T.O. And Landing

Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting wingman (Reply 5):
If I'm hearing that audio right she's the one actually moving the throttles on T/O. I'd say those two boys are going to be on the main avenue banging pots with the rest of unemployed Buenos Aires by Monday. I never ceased to be amazed by stupidity.

  

It did look like she had her hand on the throttles just before takeoff power was applied.

Big mistake by those pilots, especially the Captain who should know better...

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
Rules aside... Chatty visitors are... well, sorry, not this one, she's beyond chatty! She's too bloody noisy! Sorry! If she can't stop chatting during take off and landing rolls... Get her out!

              

She was way, way too chatty...

I'm surprised the Captain let it go on for so long and didn't do much to encourage her to shut up...

That was definitely not a sterile cockpit  
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