behramjee
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Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:52 am

Dear All,

Air China has officially announced that it shall be launching new 4 weekly nonstop flights from its Beijing hub to Mumbai, India effective 25OCT15. All flights shall be flown using their new A333s with the below mentioned schedule:

Days: TUE/THU/SAT/SUN

CA 889 Dep PEK 1940 Arr BOM 0100+1
CA 890 Dep BOM 0230 Arr PEK 1120

FYI in 2014, the O&D demand between PEK and BOM was 18,000 pax only hence this means the flight will be very reliant on connecting traffic to other East Asian cities via PEK along with USA/CAN (West Coast).

Rgds
Behramjee

[Edited 2015-06-29 00:53:27]
 
777klm
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:19 am

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
FYI in 2014, the O&D demand between PEK and BOM was 18,000 pax only

It always surprises me how little traffic and demand there is between China and India, two significant world powers in terms of politics and trade. AI for example doesn't even operate a single flight from India to PEK. Good to see the two capitals getting connected by CA now.

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
this means the flight will be very reliant on connecting traffic to other East Asian cities via PEK along with USA/CAN (West Coast).

USA I agree, but East Asian cities other than those in Japan would mean a serious detour for travellers to/from BOM.
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behramjee
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:48 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 1):
It always surprises me how little traffic and demand there is between China and India, two significant world powers in terms of politics and trade. AI for example doesn't even operate a single flight from India to PEK. Good to see the two capitals getting connected by CA now.

Major India-China markets in 2014 were as follows:

CAN-DEL-CAN...115K
PVG-DEL-PVG...89K
PEK-DEL-PEK...70K
PVG-BOM-PVG...65K
PVG-BLR-PVG...30K
PVG-MAA-PVG...19K
PEK-BOM-PEK...18K
CAN-BOM-CAN...18K

I believe CZ operates double daily B757s CAN-DEL-CAN. I know one of these flights gets a lot of cheap fare paying pax from LAX and YVR in particular.

Btw CA's A333s seat 301 pax in a 3 class layout i.e. 30J / 16W / 255Y.

[Edited 2015-06-29 02:59:57]

[Edited 2015-06-29 03:02:23]
 
gabrielchew
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:28 am

Didn't they used to run this service via CTU? I remember seeing a CA CTU-BOM flight on the departure boards in CTU a few years ago.
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AirIndia
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 1):
Good to see the two capitals getting connected by CA now.

BOM is not India's capital. DEL is.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:28 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 2):
CAN-DEL-CAN...115K
PVG-DEL-PVG...89K
PEK-DEL-PEK...70K
PVG-BOM-PVG...65K
PVG-BLR-PVG...30K
PVG-MAA-PVG...19K
PEK-BOM-PEK...18K
CAN-BOM-CAN...18K

Is that O&D or just total passengers? I'm wondering how much PVG-DEL-PVG is cheap tickets to LAX?
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behramjee
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
Is that O&D or just total passengers? I'm wondering how much PVG-DEL-PVG is cheap tickets to LAX?

Pure point to point, no transit pax ! As you probably know, MU flies a daily A346 on this route + AI too flies DEL-PVG-DEL nonstop on a B787 four times per week and a vast majority of AI's pax is pure point to point traffic where as you correctly pointed out, MU does attract quite a bit of transfer pax originating from SFO/LAX/YVR on board its PVG-DEL service along with the usual P2P.

89,000 pax bi-direction total means 122 pax per day per direction on this route which is quite believable.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:58 pm

You'd have to be desperate to consider transferring in Shanghai with the constant delays and closed airspace issues they are having, but then MU have always attracted bottom of barrel connection traffic. Guangzhou, and to a lesser extent Beijing are far better Chinese transit cities. Steer clear of the tertiary cities for intl to intl connections - Kunming and Chengdu is just asking for trouble due to lack of frequencies and incompetence.

(Not that intl intl connections in India are any better, but at least the airlines are better, as is the English, but the processes are still from the 1960s)
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ytz
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:46 pm

Talk about terrible timings......
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):
Pure point to point, no transit pax ! As you probably know, MU flies a daily A346 on this route
Quoting behramjee (Reply 2):
I believe CZ operates double daily B757s CAN-DEL-CAN.

I don't get it. No offense but are you just saying things out of misinformation or is this a deliberate attempt to exaggerate things?

CZ flies CAN-DEL-CAN with double daily 737s and not 757.
and
MU flies PVG-DEL with 332s and not 346.
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behramjee
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 9):
I don't get it. No offense but are you just saying things out of misinformation or is this a deliberate attempt to exaggerate things?

CZ flies CAN-DEL-CAN with double daily 737s and not 757. MU flies PVG-DEL with 332s and not 346.

no they had for a while operated double daily B757s on this route which was published on the GDS system too. I did not know that they had downgraded it to the B738 as I had not checked recently. If you know of the time period or date when they had done the equipment change on both these routes, I would be interested to know....thank you
 
777klm
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 4):
BOM is not India's capital. DEL is.

woops, you're right. early post I guess. thanks.
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JOYA380B747
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 10):
If you know of the time period or date when they had done the equipment change on both these routes, I would be interested to know....thank you

Well I have been seeing CZ doing 737 since at least a year if not more.

My question is, why is the Far East such a seemingly non-competitive market for India w.r.t both O&D and N.America pax? It has been so even before the ME3 were such a big deal.
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tortugamon
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
FYI in 2014, the O&D demand between PEK and BOM was 18,000 pax only hence this means the flight will be very reliant on connecting traffic

Echoing the shock that this market is so small. I really am surprised that two regions of 13-20 Million people support 18,000 passengers. I realize that DEL to PEK would be better for politics and BOM-PVG/CAN would be better for business but I am still surprised its so small. Thanks for posting.

tortugamon
 
wzafar
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:42 pm

Wow. Didn't know this route wasn't served. CA serves KHI but not BOM?
 
777way
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting wzafar (Reply 14):

Not getting your surprise? is it PEK-BOM route or CA flying to BOM which they already do from Chengdu.

Or is it CA flying to India?

[Edited 2015-06-29 17:03:14]
 
infinit
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:09 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 1):
It always surprises me how little traffic and demand there is between China and India, two significant world powers in terms of politics and trade. AI for example doesn't even operate a single flight from India to PEK. Good to see the two capitals getting connected by CA now.

It's odd indeed. Recent archaeological works done around Raffles in Singapore revealed loads goods of value from 13th century India and China- Singapore was known as the Temasek Kingdom then. You'd think that by the 21st century these would be part of the busiest air corridors!
 
wzafar
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:27 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 15):

CA not flying to BOM which is a huge market compared to KHI.
 
9w748capt
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:14 am

Politics is surely part of it. India and China have fought wars. Plus until recently didn't China require a visa even to transit? Only now are the Chinese carriers becoming large and competitive enough to compete for the connecting traffic.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:32 am

Quoting wzafar (Reply 17):
CA not flying to BOM which is a huge market compared to KHI.

Pakistan and China are regional allies while India and China are not.
 
wzafar
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 19):

Would be interesting if behramjee can provide numbers on traffic between PAK and China and India & China. Also wonder how their KHI service is doing in terms of Load Factor.. Think they are operating the 777 on some days at least.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:51 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):
89,000 pax bi-direction total means 122 pax per day per direction on this route which is quite believable.

Thank you for the information. The quantity of flights... I didn't know. Hence my question on O&D and transfer.

I'm always amazed how low the O&D is between India and China. It is too obvious they compete instead of cooperate.


Lightsaber
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777way
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RE: Beijing-Mumbai Announced By Air China

Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting wzafar (Reply 17):
CA have been serving BOM since quite a few years but from Chengdu.

Quoting wzafar (Reply 20):

If I'm not mistaken the 777 were hajj charters that stop at KHI to refuel, happening since a decade or more, regular service is with A320 twice weekly KHI-CTU-PEK.

[Edited 2015-06-30 09:12:30]

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