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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:51 am

Quoting kevin (Reply 42):
The plane was shot down by Chinese military carrying out exercises in the South China Sea or whatnot.

Just after Z said good night? What a coincidence...

What was the plane seen on the military radars then?

What plane was pinging on behalf of 9M-MRO then?

Who collected and hid all the debris so quickly that just hours later when the first search ships reached the SCS area near where it went silent there were nothing to be found.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 48):
Yes it is possible that the plane crashed somewhere in the SIO

Correct. Most likely.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 48):
but it is more a likely theory now (IMO) that the plane never crashed in to the ocean.

Incorrect. Extremely unlikely.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 48):
The only mistake he made was not killing the power to the SATCOM.

It went offline, then it came back online.
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 43):
Seriously? We're just making stuff up now?
Quoting scbriml (Reply 44):
That's largely been the case for the last 80 threads.   

Truer words haven been spoken since part 50....

TRB
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David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:02 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 48):
I was replying to your reference that you said Inmarsat would have been involved in such a conspiracy. My point is not at all. They have no idea where the plane is. Just a vast region. And no, Inmarsat did not narrow it down to a tiny region.

The aircraft was originally assumed to have gone down in the Gulf of Thailand. When nothing was found and reports began to emerge suggesting that the aircraft had continued to fly for seven hours there was plenty of speculation that the aircraft had landed in East Africa, Iran, Yemen, Western China, several of the "Stans" and even at Diego Garcia. The arc highlighted by Inmarsat is quite definitely a very small percentage of that vast area and doesn't include a suitable stage for an operation such as you describe which left no evidence. If such an operation had taken place, Inmarsat's data would need to have been bogus.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 48):
The Brazilian navy spotted the debris 2 days after the crash of AF447 (June 3). We have no debris from MH370 for an aircraft that was equipped with 4 ELTs.

That's the point. My question was...

Quoting David L (Reply 47):
How much wreckage from AF447 was found floating on the surface more than a couple of weeks after the accident?

For the first couple of weeks after MH370 went missing the search was focused on the Gulf of Thailand, the South China Sea and the Malacca Straits.
 
WingBuff
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:06 am

Quoting kurtjeter (Reply 31):
And you really think that, 16 months later, this would still be a secret kept? NO word leaking out? Given the number of people (at various levels of government) who would have to be involved, I don't find this plausible.

We still don't know who killed JFK and why, so anything is possible.
 
YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:54 am

Synchronicity [see URL below] is a concept created by psychiatrist Carl Jung, which holds that events are "meaningful coincidences" if they occur with no apparent causal relationship, yet seem to be meaningfully related.

Is this what we are dealing with or are we merely talking about simple coincidences when, in one flight, at the right time, two fundamental occurrences happen; or at least that’s what we are told and led to believe by the authorities.

One, MH370 signs off and immediately after, at that most logical moment, goes silent.
The aircraft, then, does a mysterious turn and completely deviates from its flight plan.
We know so because we have been told and we have also been provided with at least some corroborating “evidence”.

Second, at the point where the aircraft leaves final radar coverage, at exactly the right time, the satellite communications equipment comes mysteriously back on-line.

Are these just mere coincidences or are they indicators for a sophisticated operation?

Quoting David L (Reply 52):

When nothing was found and reports began to emerge suggesting that the aircraft had continued to fly for seven hours there was plenty of speculation that the aircraft had landed in East Africa, Iran, Yemen, Western China, several of the "Stans" and even at Diego Garcia.

That was when serious discussion in earlier threads turned to the question whether or not MH370 could have followed another airliner, in that aircraft’s radar shadow.
And those same (serious) contributors are probably the first to label some other suggestion as ‘conspiracy theories’ or, indeed, they (now) claim to have been pushed out from the discussions.

On that note, I should hasten to add that the discussions on possible technical causes were very helpful and educational.
Some chain of events of technical/mechanical failures may well have been the cause, I wouldn't know.
With what we know, though, now, it is just as likely that the causes may, unfortunately, be more sinister.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

Edit: spelling errors
Edit: added 'final' (radar coverage)


[Edited 2015-07-15 03:59:40]

[Edited 2015-07-15 04:03:09]
 
frostyj
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:12 am

It's shocking that this plane has still not be found. Sad for the relatives.

Almost impossible to believe.
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pvjin
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:14 am

Quoting David L (Reply 52):
We still don't know who killed JFK and why, so anything is possible.

Hijacking a commercial airliner and making it disappear would require quite a bit more work and planning than just assassinating one person does.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:33 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 56):

Whoa there! I'm fairly confident I know who killed JFK.  

I do agree with your point, though.
 
kurtjeter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 56):
Hijacking a commercial airliner and making it disappear would require quite a bit more work and planning than just assassinating one person does.

Exactly my point. A LOT more.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:22 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 54):
One, MH370 signs off and immediately after, at that most logical moment, goes silent.The aircraft, then, does a mysterious turn and completely deviates from its flight plan.We know so because we have been told and we have also been provided with at least some corroborating “evidence”.Second, at the point where the aircraft leaves final radar coverage, at exactly the right time, the satellite communications equipment comes mysteriously back on-line.

Are these just mere coincidences or are they indicators for a sophisticated operation?

IMHO they are neither "mere coincidences" nor "indicators for a sophisticated operation".

Your points combined with the pings that indicate that the plane began its route to one of the most remote locations on the planet as soon as it rounded the tip of Sumatra, and as soon as the SatCom came back to life, indicates to me that most likely somebody in that cockpit wanted to make that plane disappear.

One person alone would have been able to accomplish that, especially if they were a type-rated pilot already in the cockpit.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 55):
It's shocking that this plane has still not be found. Sad for the relatives. Almost impossible to believe.

  

Unbelievable & totally unacceptable.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 56):
Hijacking a commercial airliner and making it disappear would require quite a bit more work and planning than just assassinating one person does.

Especially if it landed somewhere (for those who believe that).

For all those involved or who knew to have kept silent for so long would be some kind of record  
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Tangowhisky
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:30 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 50):
Incorrect. Extremely unlikely.

It is extremely unlikely as long as you believe what you want to believe. I am just keeping an open mind.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 50):
It went offline, then it came back online.

And I said, he never turned the power off (minor difference) What is your point within the context of the discussion?

Quoting David L (Reply 52):
The arc highlighted by Inmarsat is quite definitely a very small percentage of that vast area and doesn't include a suitable stage for an operation such as you describe which left no evidence

You are contradicting yourself. It is a vast arc with many non-Western friendly nations.

Quoting David L (Reply 52):
If such an operation had taken place, Inmarsat's data would need to have been bogus.

Again, Inmarsat is just providing an arc based on a ping. No lat/long data given that the SATCOM datalink was deactivated. The plane could have very well landed in a stan country with no impact to the integrity of the detection.

I am not picking and choosing the information we have at hand until today. Like any investigation, every possibility must be considered and eliminated if the facts prove so. With certainty we can say that the plane was not shot down given the trail of evidence that the plane was hijacked. That leaves us with suicidal pilot who flew it into the ocean so well executed that 16 months later not a trace can be found. Now that is extremely unlikely given the era we live in. Or a pilot with a mission for an "organisatoin" to eventually use this very sophisticated 14 hour plus flying machine as a delivery system for rogue use. I would not be thinking of this later scenario on day three or year one after its disappearance. But the possibility that this plane landed somewhere in north Asia (and quickly taken care of) is much more real today given that a shred of this plane has yet to be found at sea 70 weeks after it disappeared.
Only the paranoid survive
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 48):
The only mistake he made was not killing the power to the SATCOM.

Not if somebody wanted to make MH370 appear to look like an accident if it wasn't -(for insurance reasons, protect family reputation, etc.)...

If the SatCom was intentionally turned back on, which I believe it was given the flight path and location of the plane when it came back online (as well as the fact that only the SatCom came back online whilst the other systems that first went offline with the SatCom stayed offline), then it was a genius move given that it allows the accident / spoof scenario to remain alive whilst not providing many clues as to the whereabouts of the plane other than a very, very large area where the plane could have gone down.

It still hasn't been found some 16 months later so it's not as if the SatCom pings have worked against any plan to make the plane wannish.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 60):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 50):It went offline, then it came back online.

And I said, he never turned the power off (minor difference) What is your point within the context of the discussion?

How do you know that?

How do you know that "he", using your term, did not initially "turn the power off" or kill / the SatCom (along with the transponder & ACARS) and then turn it back on again?

"He" might have turned the SatCom power off near IGARI and then turned it back on when ready, just leaving it on for the rest of the flight knowing it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 60):
It is extremely unlikely as long as you believe what you want to believe. I am just keeping an open mind.

I have always kept an open mind in regards to what could have happened to MH370 despite realising that some scenarios are not possible (eg: Alien abduction, TWA800 / PamAm103 type explosion) and some scenarios are far more likely than others.
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting WingBuff (Reply 53):
We still don't know who killed JFK and why, so anything is possible.

I posted almost the same 50 threads ago....still crickets sounds....

TRB
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David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 60):
You are contradicting yourself. It is a vast arc with many non-Western friendly nations.

I'm not contradicting myself. The issue seems to be that we're talking about different arcs. I'm talking about the southern arc.

From the horse's mouth, so to speak:
http://www.inmarsat.com/news/austral...cus-fresh-search-mh370-narrow-arc/

And a brief explanation of why attention is focused on the southern arc:
http://www.inmarsat.com/news/malaysi...t-publishes-mh370-details-uk-aaib/

The key element is that the satellite is no longer precisely geostationary and wanders about a fixed position in a known manner. This has been discussed quite extensively in earlier threads.

If you still think the area determined by Inmarsat is not a tiny fraction of the possible final locations we'd be considering without Inmarsat then I guess we'll just have to accept that we have very different ideas of what constitutes a tiny fraction.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:16 am

We may have a reason for the isolation of the left bus. Turns out this will knock off power to the CVR. That it took this long to find/figure this out is frustrating.

But we finally have a GOOD reason as to why it was isolated (if it was).   
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 64):
We may have a reason for the isolation of the left bus. Turns out this will knock off power to the CVR. That it took this long to find/figure this out is frustrating.

But we finally have a GOOD reason as to why it was isolated (if it was).   
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 64):
We may have a reason for the isolation of the left bus. Turns out this will knock off power to the CVR.

Source?

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 64):
But we finally have a GOOD reason as to why it was isolated (if it was).

But no reason for why it was repowered.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:33 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 67):
Source?

1.11.2 of Factual Information states that “The SSCVR [Solid State Cockpit Voice Recorder] operates any time power is available on the Left AC transfer bus. This bus is not powered from batteries or the Ram Air Turbine (RAT).

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 67):
But no reason for why it was repowered.

There are many reasons as to why one would want to repower the bus for a further 5+ hours of flight.

Cheers
 
mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:41 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 68):
1.11.2 of Factual Information states that “The SSCVR [Solid State Cockpit Voice Recorder] operates any time power is available on the Left AC transfer bus. This bus is not powered from batteries or the Ram Air Turbine (RAT).

The left AC TRANSFER bus can obtain power from the DC system. There is no evidence that the left AC transfer bus was knocked off.
Satcom is powered by the left MAIN AC bus (not transfer bus). We have evidence pointing towards that being unpowered.
Again... CVR is considered critical, satcom isn't considered critical. Hence the former is on a more redundant power supply than the latter.
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 68):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 67):But no reason for why it was repowered.

There are many reasons as to why one would want to repower the bus for a further 5+ hours of flight.

To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.
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UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:55 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 69):
To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

Please, note that the whole premise was debunked in the post by mandala just before yours. There's no need to keep discussing this red herring.
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mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:36 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 70):
To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

If you switch off the Main AC Bus, OK...
But then, if they switched off the AC Transfer busses, etc, the question is, why?
It's like overkill and puts the whole operation on jeopardy.
If the flight data identifier on the satcom is absent after the relogon at 1825, it leads also to a possibility of the FMCs being shut down in-flight... Now why would anyone do that? To make it look like an accident, I'd simply switch off the satcom (left main AC bus)... and be done with it... keep it a mystery.

Now who was it (that has been booed off this topic by the "pilot did it and anyone disagreeing must be banished from this site" crowd) that mentioned a coffee spill on the pedestal followed by a frequency change in the first 40 parts of this topic series?  
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:18 am

Mandala,

Which is correct?

"The AC Transfer buses supply the respective DC buses through transformer rectifier units. The DC buses cannot feed the AC Transfer buses. DC can feed the Standby AC system through an inverter but this is only after all AC is lost. Standby AC cannot feed either of the Transfer buses".

or

"The left AC TRANSFER bus can obtain power from the DC system. There is no evidence that the left AC transfer bus was knocked off.
Satcom is powered by the left MAIN AC bus (not transfer bus). We have evidence pointing towards that being unpowered.
Again... CVR is considered critical, satcom isn't considered critical. Hence the former is on a more redundant power supply than the latter.


Can you clarify??
 
mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:23 pm

The original is correct. I didn't have the manual open when I wrote the reply earlier today. It was supposed to read the Transfer bus feed the DC system.
"The AC Transfer buses supply the respective DC buses through transformer rectifier units. The DC buses cannot feed the AC Transfer buses. DC can feed the Standby AC system through an inverter but this is only after all AC is lost. Standby AC cannot feed either of the Transfer buses".
(Although DC feed to standby AC is only through the battery, which only gets charged on the ground).

IDG and/or APU GEN to Main AC buses to AC Transfer Buses to DC System.
Back Up Generators to converter to AC Transfer Bus to DC System.

If you switch off the as you claim, the left transfer bus, you have to switch off the left main generator, and BOTH Back Up Generators.

Left Transfer Bus goes to Standby AC bus and Left TRU and C1 TRU. Right Transfer Bus goes to C2 TRU and Right TRU.
Left TRU powers Left Main DC Bus, Right TRU Powers Right Main DC Bus (they can cross tie at the Main DC bus level).
C1 and C2 powers the Captain and FO instruments respectively.

Back Up Generators power the Left, Center, and Right Power Supply Assemblies of systems, which powers the respective left, center and right flight control systems. Should that power path fail, then L PSA gets power from Left Main DC Bus or the Hot Battery Bus, or the battery; C PSA gets power from the Hot Battery Bus or Captain's Instrument Bus; R PSA gets power from Right Main DC Bus or the battery.

In case people are interested...

What gets fed off the L AC Transfer Bus:
Left forward boost pump, Radio ALT L, Radio ALT C, GPS L , ILS L, ADF L, Left Weather Radar, Left Transponder (Shed if both AC MAIN buses unpowered), Left HF (Shed if both AC MAIN buses unpowered), CVR, Some cockpit lighting, MasterBright Control for cockpit panel (Normal), Overhead panel dimmer switch, Integrated Panel Dimmer switch (Normal)

What gets fed off the Standby AC Bus (drains from battery when left transfer bus is unpowered):
GPS R, Left VOR, ILS C, MasterBright Control for cockpit panel (Backup), Integrated Panel Dimmer switch (Backup), L Engine IGN 1 (backup for left main AC) and fire detection, L Engine IGN 2 (backup for right main AC) and fire detection, R Engine IGN 1 (backup for left main AC) and fire detection, R Engine IGN 2 (backup for right main AC) and fire detection
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:02 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 70):
Please, note that the whole premise was debunked in the post by mandala just before yours.

You are wrong because your 'debunked' premise claim only applies to the left transfer bus premise, not the left main bus premise.

Please, get your facts straight - this slow moving thread should not be that hard to follow  

See below:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 71):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 70):To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

If you switch off the Main AC Bus, OK...

Thank you.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 70):
There's no need to keep discussing this red herring.

Then don't discuss it or dictate to others  
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UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:05 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 74):
You are wrong because your 'debunked' premise claim only applies to the left transfer bus premise, not the left main bus premise.

Maybe it is you who have trouble following the thread. The CVR is powered by the left transfer bus, which, as far as we know, was never switched off. So, what's the point of the discussion about the CVR?
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 75):
So, what's the point of the discussion about the CVR?

Ask that question to those who are discussing the CVR idea, which, if you followed the thread, you would see does not include me. That discussion began not too many posts ago, in reply # 64; it is not too hard to find  

When some people claimed that 'the Captain did it crowd can't explain the SatCom coming back online' it was my suggestion that it *could* have been turned back on intentionally to make MH370 appear to be an accident. I never discussed the CVR idea. Furthermore, IMHO, if the Captain did it then the CVR might have been irrelevant somewhat because the recording of what happened near IGARI when things got odd most likely is gone given how long the flight apparently flew for after then.

Your following premise:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 70):
Please, note that the whole premise was debunked in the post by mandala just before yours. There's no need to keep discussing this red herring.

which was in reply to:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 69):
To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

is still incorrect because the idea that the SatCom could have been intentionally turned back on to make MH370 look like an accident has never been debunked  
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UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 76):
Ask that question to those who are discussing the CVR idea, which, if you followed the thread, you would see does not include me.

Well, I did follow the thread, and this is the sequence:

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 64):
We may have a reason for the isolation of the left bus. Turns out this will knock off power to the CVR.
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 66):
But no reason for why it was repowered.
Quoting oxymorph (Reply 67):
There are many reasons as to why one would want to repower the bus for a further 5+ hours of flight.
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 69):
To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

So you may not have been aware of it, but, yes, you were discussing the CVR idea.
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FlyDeltaJetsATL
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:53 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 54):
Synchronicity [see URL below] is a concept created by psychiatrist Carl Jung, which holds that events are "meaningful coincidences" if they occur with no apparent causal relationship, yet seem to be meaningfully related. Is this what we are dealing with or are we merely talking about simple coincidences when, in one flight, at the right time, two fundamental occurrences happen; or at least that’s what we are told and led to believe by the authorities.One, MH370 signs off and immediately after, at that most logical moment, goes silent.The aircraft, then, does a mysterious turn and completely deviates from its flight plan.We know so because we have been told and we have also been provided with at least some corroborating “evidence”.Second, at the point where the aircraft leaves final radar coverage, at exactly the right time, the satellite communications equipment comes mysteriously back on-line.Are these just mere coincidences or are they indicators for a sophisticated operation?

They are not "indicators for a sophisticated operation". I and many others believe they are indicators of a simple operation - here it is again: The captain took his own plane. Simple.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 59):
For all those involved or who knew to have kept silent for so long would be some kind of record

  

That no new information has come out or been leaked suggests to me that the only person or persons who knew were on the doomed flight itself. There is no new information to leak because this was not a sophisticated operation that many people know about; this was a simple operation, and the person who knew what happened went down with his vessel like a captain should do.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 70):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 69):To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

Please, note that the whole premise was debunked in the post by mandala just before yours.

Please, explain how and where exactly 777jet's premise that "To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't" was debunked.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 77):
Well, I did follow the thread, and this is the sequence:Quoting oxymorph (Reply 64):We may have a reason for the isolation of the left bus. Turns out this will knock off power to the CVR. Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 66):But no reason for why it was repowered. Quoting oxymorph (Reply 67):There are many reasons as to why one would want to repower the bus for a further 5+ hours of flight.Quoting 777Jet (Reply 69):To make MH370 look like an accident when IMHO it most probably wasn't.

So you may not have been aware of it, but, yes, you were discussing the CVR idea.

Actually, if you follow that sequence of replies that you just quoted, 777jet's reply # 69 provides a different reason to the premise in Oxymorph's reply # 67 in which it is stated that "There are many reasons as to why one would want to repower the bus for a further 5+ hours of flight". The CVR issue was being discussed first, but then it was stated that there are many different reasons, and then 777jet provided an alternative reason. 777jet was not discussing the CVR. 777jet introduced a different reason and was therefore not continuing to "discuss this red hearing".

Quoting UALWN (Reply 70):
There's no need to keep discussing this red herring.

Let's move on from this who said what nonsense. Semantics have come to dominate threads on this forum lately which is why I seldom check in here anymore.

I just found this article and was surprised at how confident Martin Dolan spoke:



'MH370: Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane ‘Will Be Found In The Next Year,’ Vows ATSB Chief Martin Dolan'

http://www.ibtimes.com/mh370-missing...ear-vows-atsb-chief-martin-2023011

""Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, which went missing on March 8, 2014, with 239 people on board, “will be found in the next year,” Martin Dolan, chief commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said Thursday.""



I really hope that this guy turns out to be right and did not just put his foot in his mouth.


Jesse
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:23 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 78):
They are not "indicators for a sophisticated operation". I and many others believe they are indicators of a simple operation - here it is again: The captain took his own plane. Simple.

Miraculous. A voice of reason on the MH370 thread. You are the rare bird, dishearteningly.
 
gzm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 78)

Quote:
Semantics have come to dominate threads on this forum lately,which is why I seldom check in here anymore.

Exactly. So,let's set something straight: You say that the captain took his plane. Took it where? If you mean he crashed his own plane,then why make such a sophisticated operation? Because this makes no sense. If we are to accept that he guided his plane somewhere wanting to show off his skills, all the time avoiding detection,the only logical choice left is that he guided his plane with the intention to land it somewhere. The other logical question is how a captain who substitutes for somebody else in such short notice is prepared to do anything sophisticated like that,either way. The explanation given in this thread up to now, certainly does not give an answer to the problem...

PS (we do not know if he did land).I believe that somebody intended to go north.I do not know what happened next.This will take a long time to figure out.

[Edited 2015-07-25 00:19:17]
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting gzm (Reply 80):
You say that the captain took his plane. Took it where?

To somewhere in the Southern Indian Ocean, when the Inmarsat data places the aircraft, in case you forgot about that.

For more information on that, please refer to, and fully read, an article written by Chris Ashton et al. in The Journal of Navigation titled 'The Search for MH370' - the said article has been linked in these threads numerous times.

Quoting gzm (Reply 80):
If you mean he crashed his own plane,then why make such a sophisticated operation?

Please read again what I wrote below:

Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 78):
They are not "indicators for a sophisticated operation". I and many others believe they are indicators of a simple operation - here it is again: The captain took his own plane. Simple.

It does not require any sophistication whatsoever for an experienced 777 captain, already in the cockpit, to take his own plane.

Look at what the GermanWings first officer managed to do. I doubt the experienced MH370 captain would have had much difficulty dealing with the inexperienced first officer who was on that flight, as well as incapacitating those on the other side of the cockpit door.

As I said above, the MH370 captain taking his own plane was not a sophisticated operation. It was simple.

Quoting gzm (Reply 80):
The other logical question is how a captain who substitutes for somebody else in such short notice is prepared to do anything sophisticated like that,either way.

Again, it was not a sophisticated operation. Get it?

Things could have happened in different ways, but it would not require any planning to lock the first officer out of the cockpit and then incapacitate everybody on the other side of the cockpit door. The rest of the flight, including the possible ditching, would not have required much planning at all for a experienced captain with decades of knowledge, especially flying in that region.

Quoting gzm (Reply 80):
The explanation given in this thread up to now, certainly does not give an answer to the problem...

Sorry to hear that you have complicated things for yourself and can only see sophisticated problems instead of simple solutions.

Have a read of this old article in case you think that just a few of us in this thread have a particular agenda:


'MH370 mystery: One year on from disappearance and Byron Bailey says only the pilot could have done it'

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...ne-it/story-fni0cx12-1227241224262

"It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to work out who did it. Nearly all my colleagues in the aviation industry realised within days of the crash that only a pilot could have done this."


Jesse
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gzm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:53 am

I mean why do all those manoeuvres : turn back,fly through or avoiding certain territories so as not to get detected before finally setting on a course south...to baffle us some more? It shows a more calculated plan than simply wanting to bring the plane down. You say that people in the industry believe that only the captain could have done it but can they also say why he did it? (The pilot did it theory can have various explanations - certainly somebody was in charge of that airplane!) Here in Greece, the leading aviation expert who presides in committees, who is also a very experienced pilot himself, dared to say on TV from the first day that the plane must have been hijacked and taken north. The result being that he was criticized and he has kept his appearances to a minimum ever since. There are many things we do not know about MH 370....
For example, the turn around after last contact: I have said before that if he had wanted to disappear he would have continued to the Pacific ocean and crashed his plane there instead.People here just didn't find it logical...

[Edited 2015-07-25 01:27:35]
 
YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:40 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 78):
They are not "indicators for a sophisticated operation". I and many others believe they are indicators of a simple operation - here it is again: The captain took his own plane. Simple.

The reasons for the disappearance of MH370 are simple, very simple actually ...
There is no question, the Captain could have done it; and so too could the FO.
Or, as it was discussed much earlier, mechanical issues could have been at play.
Or else it could have been, after all, a sophisticated operation.

It seems ‘sophisticated’ is the wrong word here.
Maybe one should call it a well-planned & executed operation, calculated mission (to borrow GZM’s term), a false-flag operation perhaps or whatever else it may have been.
We may not yet have touched anywhere near the real causes of what (or who?) is behind it all.

The argument, if it had been some kind of secret operation, that someone would have ‘spilled-the-beans’ by now, doesn’t hold water, not at all. There are many false flag operations where the perpetrators haven’t come clean and neither were they dobbed in. In contrast, wars have been started on the basis of false-flag ops.

With the limited facts that are available to us and with the limited information the public has been provided by the authorities, we, the A.netters and the public, simply don’t and cannot know with certainty what exactly happened to MH370 or, indeed, what someone might have done with it.
We can only guess and, at best, try and find new angles; be that on topics already discussed or build on the benefit of hindsight with new thoughts.

Yes, to a lot of people the ‘Captain-did-it’ scenario would by now be the ‘preferred cause’. Why?
It would be for no better reason than to simply have an explanation and then forget about it, let it all rest. We should not let the disappearance rest, at least not just yet ....
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:28 am

Quoting gzm (Reply 82):
I mean why do all those manoeuvres : turn back,fly through or avoiding certain territories so as not to get detected before finally setting on a course south...to baffle us some more?

Well, it is obvious that if somebody took the plane they would want to avoid detection as best as possible in order to get closer to their end objective; the supposed route MH370 took from near IGARI to the Indian Ocean near the tip of Sumatra seemed to achieve detection avoidance as the plane eventually got away.

Quoting gzm (Reply 82):
For example, the turn around after last contact: I have said before that if he had wanted to disappear he would have continued to the Pacific ocean and crashed his plane there instead.People here just didn't find it logical...

It was already discussed that a flight path into the Pacific Ocean would have been more risky, and for longer. What route would it have taken? If it flew anywhere close to the Philippines it would have been picked up by military - probably US Military at that. A route towards the Pacific would have been more risky and for much longer. The supposed route 9M-MRO took to the Indian Ocean would have been less risky in terms of detection avoidance than heading out towards the Pacific IMHO.
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gzm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:14 pm

The fact that the plane made that U-turn just after last contact shows malicious intent for sure. No technical reasons. Somebody wanted that change of course because he intended to go north and land the plane you know where.That must have been the original plan.And then,after Malacca straits the plan went wrong,didn't it? It gives me the impression of a failed hijack attempt. It also gives me the impression that the strong plane went on, refusing to quit until fuel exhaustion and the subsequent fall into the ocean from great height, hence the lack of debris...
You have made every effort to present a cohesive plan that everything was done by one person,the captain. There must have been other factors too,I think...
 
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pvjin
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:43 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 85):

Well, in case of a serious emergency caused by a technical reason you would do an U turn to return back to the nearest suitable airport as quickly as you can.
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:40 am

An aircraft flap washed up on the beach in Reunion today, could it be related?

http://www.zinfos974.com/Ste-Suzanne...oujours-pas-identifiee_a88435.html

http://www.zinfos974.com/photo/art/default/8077714-12589135.jpg?v=1438160455
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Summa767
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:03 pm

Quoting Buyantukhaa (Reply 87):
An aircraft flap washed up on the beach in Reunion today, could it be related?

It's certainly worth investigating as it could be a significant find.
I am sure the a.net 777 engineers and the like will be able to tell us very quickly whether or not this is a 777 part. Is it a slat rather than a flap?

According to the local Reunion news, the part is approx 2 m x 1 m, and it was found in the shores of Saint Andre, North East of the Island.

Here is related news piece with photographs that make it easier to estimate the size of the part found:

http://www.zinfos974.com/Morceau-d-a...uve-L-enquete-commence_a88445.html

[Edited 2015-07-29 06:13:18]
 
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scbriml
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting summa767 (Reply 88):

B777 flaperon according to this post?
Aircraft Flap Found In La Réunion (RUN) (by chuchoteur Jul 29 2015 in Civil Aviation)
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:59 pm

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WingBuff
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 90):
Debris in Indian Ocean checked for MH370 ties: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/africa...70-debris-investigation/index.html

Not quite checked. It only states that 5-6 people needed to carry that piece of debris pictured, so the weight does point to something big. And that the Indian Ocean current moves in a more or less counter-clockwise stream. So wherever MH370 may have dropped, the likelihood of the debris having been swept up north and then to the west and southwest towards Madagascar is pretty high. They use the 2011 Tohoku earthquake and tsunami as an example, how the debris ended up on US shore 9 months later.

Looks like a flap though. Its bottom is flat.

[Edited 2015-07-29 14:26:50]
 
TXspotter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:29 pm

Here are my pictures of a B777-200ER flaperon. First 3 are the left hand side flaperon, last picture is the right hand side part number.

Notice the DATA PLATES will be on the inboard side of either LH or RH flaperon. Very common for these to have fallen off.

Lefthand Flaperon PN 113W6100-9


Righthand Flaperon PN 113W6100-10
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:39 pm

Compare TXspotter's uppermost pic with Buyantukhaa's debris photo. Both show quasi-rectangular areas framed by posts, at what would be the junction with the rest of the wing.

However, there are some differences. It's difficult to get a sense of scale, especially sitting in the grass. I'm sure Boeing can figure this out.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:41 pm

AP is saying that it comes from the the 'same type of aircraft" as MH370.

tortugamon
 
Summa767
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:45 pm

Thank you Txpotter.
I notice that the serial number in the 777 flaperon data plate in your photos is WB203.
Do you think that the reported number BB670, could at all be a serial number of a 777 flaperon?
 
TXspotter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting summa767 (Reply 95):
Thank you Txpotter.
I notice that the serial number in the 777 flaperon data plate in your photos is WB203.
Do you think that the reported number BB670, could at all be a serial number of a 777 flaperon?

Possibly. I would expect the 3 numerical digits to be very close to the line number of the plane itself which was line number 404.

Everything attached to the flaperon has a part number. even those rubber seals. I will check the IPC and see what I can find related to the reported part number.

The part number of the flaperon WILL BE

113W6100-XX where XX is an ODD number to reflect a left hand (#1 engine) flaperon

113W6100-XX where XX is an EVEN number to reflect a right hand (#2 engine) flaperon
 
WingBuff
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting Txspotter (Reply 96):
which was line number 404

Oh the irony lol
 
OMP777X
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:35 pm

NBC News has reported that Boeing has said the parts are from a 777, and since MH370 is the only 777 unaccounted for, the flap debris is from MH370. So, they've confirmed that it is 9M-MRO after all.

It was only a matter of time until the pieces came to shore due to currents.


Best,

OMP777X

[Edited 2015-07-29 15:55:36]
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:24 pm

Even if this turns out to be from 9M-MRO, IMHO it won't do much if anything at all to assist with the current search.

It would at least, however, imply that the plane did go down somewhere in the Indian Ocean - kind of like the data suggests!

The conspiracy theorists will continue with their fantasies however...

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 98):
NBC News has reported that Boeing has said the parts are from a 777, and since MH370 is the only 777 unaccounted for, the flap debris is from MH370. So, they've confirmed that it is 9M-MRO after all.

This is NBC you are talking about.

I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt.
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