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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:54 am

Sorry, I forgot to address these two quotes in my last post.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 146):
On a slightly different note, I was very worried that the search would be pared back to the point of uselessness. Now, I believe that finding the flaperon will keep the search going until MH370 is found.

I agree.

I hope that this find provides the first dose of fuel authorities need to keep the search going, or further extend it.

If, from the flaperon, authorities believe the impact was farther North, I wonder if the search effort will shift North and start the entire sea floor mapping / underwater search again after further analysis?

No doubt this will cost more $$$...

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 146):
One thing about the search that bothers me, (and maybe I'm wrong about this), is that the bill is being footed primarily by Australia and Malaysia. This tragedy affects countries around the world, and if more of these countries coughed up some dough, there would not be any reason not to search until it's found.

I agree.

I can understand Malaysia footing a large chunk of the bill but as this is no longer a search and rescue, I don't think Australia should have much, if any, of a financial responsibility at all.

Given the number or Chinese pax, I would expect China to be contributing a larger chunk $$$ to the search bill.

I wonder what China would do if Malaysia and Australia cut off their funding?
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:01 am

As an aside....

We in Hawaii have been watching the ins and outs of the Mālama Honua Worldwide Voyage of Hōkūle'a. Their next leg will take them from Bali to Mauritius. This whole time with the events unfolding about drifted debris, my thoughts would turn to the irony of this voyage sailing through the areas in question and coming upon debris that through high technologies existing elsewhere did not come across. Even though the chances are slim, I would find it terribly ironic that with using "ancient" techniques and navigational methods in foreign, never before traveled waters they may stumble upon something that seemingly "all the technology available" in the region would not have found.

Just a meandering thought I've chosen to contribute to the thread...

Pohakuloa
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edmountain
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:06 pm

Multiple sources confirming the flaperon found in Réunion is indeed from MH370. It's all being talked about in the flap thread. I wonder if the two threads could be merged?
 
abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 149):
I guess I did not learn anything during the several years I spent in SE Asia, including Malaysia.

Now we have had people her claiming that the pilot did it because of certain mental illnesses that were specific to Malay and Indonesian people. Now we have also got people claiming that the pilot did it because of certain norms prevalent in Malaysian culture...

Now, I have lived and worked in the region for some 13 years and worked closely with Malaysian people and I even speak a local Chinese dialect commonly spoken also in Malaysia. Now for people to claim that the pilot did it because of some nebulous traits in either the culture or (which you haven't claimed) in the genetic set up of people living in this area - reasons that would not make an American or European pilot do the same thing - I consider nonsense. If the pilot did it, it would be of reasons that could also have made (some few) pilots do it in other parts of the world. To claim that Malaysians are people so strange and alien that they might as well have come from outer space as they think and act in ways that are completely different from what is seen elsewhere is nothing but cultural prejudice.

Sorry if I misread your statement as if you were saying that! But I have met this way of thing so often - even from people claiming to be educated and having lived in the region (also here on a-net) - that it gives me small red itching spots when I meet it.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:56 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 149):
You might not care what gets posted in here, but the moderators rightly do.

That's one of the reasons mods exist. If anyone thinks any post breaks A.Net posting rules, use the suggest deletion button, and leave the choice up to moderators.

Let them decide whether a post is suitable for a thread.

I suppose one is free to post anything they want, but the mods are free to delete posts and/or ban posters they feel don't conform to the rules.
What the...?
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting edmountain (Reply 152):
Multiple sources confirming the flaperon found in Réunion is indeed from MH370.

It's about time.

Quoting abba (Reply 153):
Now for people to claim that the pilot did it because of some nebulous traits in either the culture or (which you haven't claimed) in the genetic set up of people living in this area - reasons that would not make an American or European pilot do the same thing - I consider nonsense.

IMHO culture has nothing to do with why, at this stage, I still consider the 'Captain did it' scenario to be the most probable scenario.

Here is why, and please don't say it is too simple: Something tipped him over the edge, and that something had something to do with politics and the Anwar verdict or... possibly a culmination of issues in which the Anwar verdict might have been the tipping point.

Individuals have their own breaking points. Some people might almost never reach that point no matter what they face, and others will reach it because of much smaller issues.

Quoting abba (Reply 153):
Sorry if I misread your statement as if you were saying that! But I have met this way of thing so often - even from people claiming to be educated and having lived in the region (also here on a-net) - that it gives me small red itching spots when I meet it.

Please don't scratch those small red itching spots or they may get worse  

Let's all hope that more progress can be made because of the discovery of the flaperon...
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747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 142):
I think most likely with the flight control systems but until the plane is found, we just won't know for sure.

Even if the wreck is found (and the CVR was recovered) we may not know what really happened because -

- CVR recording of only the final 2 or 2.5 hours (i forget what the max limit is) will be available.
- We won't really know what happened at the beginning of the flight (for example if there was a struggle in the cockpit we won't know about that).
- We are assuming that whoever was controlling the plane (if that is what happened) spoke during the recording timeframe OR if multiple people were involved then they spoke to each other during that timeframe. Hopefully; on the CVR if the investigators hear some banging on the cockpit door and screams from the passenger cabin then we will at least know that the plane was being commandeered and the passengers were alive and aware.
-But, if a fire was involved and can be detected from the wreckage that is an entirely different story then...but i find it very unlikely that a fire was involved in this case.

From the FDR the only conclusion that can be drawn is whether the plane was in deliberate controlled flight or whether there was come problem with the aircraft itself.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 156):
From the FDR the only conclusion that can be drawn is whether the plane was in deliberate controlled flight or whether there was come problem with the aircraft itself.

Is that not the entire point of the underwater search? To understand what happened to a sufficient extent that lessons can be drawn to improve the safety of air transport?
 
lancelot07
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 156):
.but i find it very unlikely that a fire was involved in this case.

We have to assume something very unlikely happened. The whole story is very unlikely.
 
747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 157):
Is that not the entire point of the underwater search? To understand what happened to a sufficient extent that lessons can be drawn to improve the safety of air transport?

Absolutely. That is precisely why every crash big or small is investigated.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:35 am

There is already a lesson that can be used to "improve the safety of air transport" from something that happened to MH370; real time aircraft tracking is insufficient and needs to be improved so that state-of-the-art aircraft carrying hundreds of people don't go missing for so long / so easily ever again.

That authorities are only a fraction closer to finding MH370 after so long is sad.

Whether or not the real cause of what happened to MH370 is ever learned, I'm glad that some countries have already looked into improved / increased real-time aircraft tracking in order to hopefully reduce the odds of completely losing an aircraft full of people.
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abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:57 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 155):
IMHO culture has nothing to do with why, at this stage, I still consider the 'Captain did it' scenario to be the most probable scenario.

Here is why, and please don't say it is too simple: Something tipped him over the edge, and that something had something to do with politics and the Anwar verdict or... possibly a culmination of issues in which the Anwar verdict might have been the tipping point.

Individuals have their own breaking points. Some people might almost never reach that point no matter what they face, and others will reach it because of much smaller issues.

I can follow that line of reasoning even if I see some major problems in it as well.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 155):
Please don't scratch those small red itching spots or they may get worse

It is difficult not to. One of my dearest friends is a Malaysian.
 
777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 155):
I still consider the 'Captain did it' scenario to be the most probable scenario.

Or it could have posed a threat and countries involved decided best to shoot it down after consultations, perhaps near Diego Garcia or Maldives.
 
gzm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:00 pm

The flaperon is quite a find,and an unexpected one.There is nothing else to do now but stop repeating old theories and wait.Let the scientists do their job and examine it inside out.The flaperon will tell us its own story more than any other floating aircraft part,like a microchip perhaps....Those of you who say the flaperon is doctored have got it all wrong.At long last we have something tangible.Be patient....
 
airtechy
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:17 pm

What if the voice and data recorders were turned off along with the transponder? That would make moot the issue of how long they record.

Jim
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 155):
IMHO culture has nothing to do with why, at this stage, I still consider the 'Captain did it' scenario to be the most probable scenario.

Here is why, and please don't say it is too simple: Something tipped him over the edge, and that something had something to do with politics and the Anwar verdict or... possibly a culmination of issues in which the Anwar verdict might have been the tipping point.

Individuals have their own breaking points. Some people might almost never reach that point no matter what they face, and others will reach it because of much smaller issues.

that'd be the size of it..and still the Malay government has no idea how to properly handle this case. 50 years of one party rule will do that to a country.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 162):
Or it could have posed a threat and countries involved decided best to shoot it down after consultations, perhaps near Diego Garcia or Maldives.

I don't think that the flaperon will suggest that anything like that happened  
Quoting gzm (Reply 163):
The flaperon is quite a find,and an unexpected one.

Not unexpected at all, unless, of course, you believed the plane ended up in a hanger somewhere  

Under any 'MH370 ended in the SIO' scenario It was always likely that debris would have been found somewhere one day...

Quoting gzm (Reply 163):
Those of you who say the flaperon is doctored have got it all wrong.

Well I'll agree with you on that!

I'm surprised, and glad to hear, that you're not in the 'doctored flaperon' camp  
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lancelot07
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:43 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 166):
Not unexpected at all, unless, of course, you believed the plane ended up in a hanger somewhere  

But very lucky to be washed ashore on a tiny island where they clean beaches.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:41 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 165):
the Malay government has no idea how to properly handle this case.

  

Razak and his cronies deserve a gold medal for the level of deceit they have displayed.

It makes me even wonder why Australia will continue to partly fund the search for Malaysia's missing plane.

The following article provides a brief summary of the continued deceit:



'Comment: With MH370 likely found, Malaysia’s lies begin to come undone'

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austra...undone/ar-BBlrjUm?ocid=mailsignout

Some selected quotes:

""Razak’s press conference came only moments before that of the French authorities. His pre-empting of the French announcement follows dissatisfaction from the public prosecutor’s office in Paris over the lack of transparency from Malaysia about what it knows, and knew, about the disappearance of the flight.""

""Now that the French have invited the Malaysians to participate in the examination of the wing, the French judge expects information from Malaysia about its criminal investigation into the flight’s disappearance.”

It refers to the evasiveness of the Malaysian authorities and to the frustration that has caused other governments with an interest in solving the riddle of the missing flight, but doesn’t refer to Australia by name, where the policy setting is to be obsequious to the government in Kuala Lumpur and dare not question anything, even though Razak misled Australia over what Malaysia knew about the crash from day one.""

""With the French authorities now on the case, what Malaysian authorities faced this morning, when Prime Minister Najib Razak spoke to an almost empty room, is loss of control over the narrative — and that’s a narrative flawed by outright lies and evasions from the government of Malaysia and its civil aviation authority.

Razak may have been guided by a PR strategy to appear to remain in control of events by being first to announce that the recovered flaperon was not just a part unique to all Boeing 777s, but specifically linkable to the 777 that flew MH370.

In 2014 Malaysia misled search partners looking for MH370 for a full 11 days when Kuala Lumpur insisted that the search be extended further into the South China Sea and as far as Kazakhstan when according to its then-acting minister for transport Hishammuddin Hussein, the cabinet knew the jet had flown westwards across the Malay Peninsula on the morning it disappeared from air traffic control radar while over the Gulf of Thailand.

Razak’s posturing will be on trial in France, and the lies, evasions and inconsistencies in the official narrative will be under arguably as much pressure as the integrity of its government over the public investment funds scandal that has concurrently broken out in Kuala Lumpur.""
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:49 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 168):

What I wonder is; what the hell do they have to gain by the moronic, transparent lying? Until they started lying, they were being treated like victims. Now they are being judged like conspirators.
What the...?
 
aussie747
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:32 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-MH370-t-NOVEMBER-bad-weather.html

It appears wreckage may have been found with category 3 debris images found which is quite significant in the original search area of the Wes Australian coast.
 
747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 170):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-MH370-t-NOVEMBER-bad-weather.html

It appears wreckage may have been found with category 3 debris images found which is quite significant in the original search area of the Wes Australian coast.

First off,why do they make partial releases to the media...especially with the terms "likely debris from plane" and raise hopes? This has happened many times in the past in this investigation. They should have just termed it "objects of strong interest discovered". At this point we don't know if they are shipping containers or another ship wreck or an airplane.

Secondly; am i the only one thinking that those images are too boxy to be an airplane or are these very coarse images and in no way indicative of the actual object(s) lying on the sea floor?
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 171):
At this point we don't know if they are shipping containers or another ship wreck or an airplane.

Shipping containers is what I first thought.
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rj777
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:50 am

I bet the lawyers are going to have a FIELD DAY with all this!
 
lancelot07
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:06 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 172):
Shipping containers is what I first thought.

Me too, but isn't baggage and cargo stored in containers on a plane ?

Quoting rj777 (Reply 173):

I bet the lawyers are going to have a FIELD DAY with all this!

With this - no. But with the event itself - very likely. But isn't MH already in bankruptcy ?
 
liquidair
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:19 am

I remember in the week following MH370, ch 5 here in the UK held a live tv programme debating likely theories of what had happened.

The air accident investigator (iirc that was her title) had the opinion it was a cyber crime- that somehow the plane got hacked.

I'm starting to think about that.... About the satcom being powered back up too... As if someone had gone through as many possibilities to regain control of the aircraft.

I don't sit in the captain did it camp. Honestly, it makes no sense whatsoever... And that goes for the co pilot too. Perhaps they really did perform a ditching.
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YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:03 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 174):
Me too, but isn't baggage and cargo stored in containers on a plane ?

The box in the lower left would remind one of those special airfreight containers, maybe even more so the other one.
Unfortunately, and unlike in the photo with the orange background, in the photo with the containers (boxes) they don't give any reference with regard to possible size of the items shown.

It would indeed be incredible if this is an item of MH370.
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:20 am

False alarm...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/aap...ar-contacts-not-related-MH370.html

Quote:
Australian authorities have dismissed reports that sonar images of two box-like shapes on the floor of the Indian Ocean could be from the missing MH370 airliner.

A spokesman for Transport Minister Warren Truss has confirmed the objects are not from the Boeing 777, which vanished last year on route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and is believed to have crashed in the Indian Ocean.

"These are old images, discounted months ago," the spokesman said.

The reports published by some media outlets on Thursday had described "category 3" sonar finds as being the most likely to be aircraft debris.

"In fact, they are the least likely to be aircraft debris," the spokesman said.

The underwater search has identified more than 400 seabed features classified as category 3, which is assigned to sonar contacts that are of some interest as they stand out from their surroundings but have low probability of being significant to the search for the plane.
 
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winterlight
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:28 am

I'm with the relatives who don't believe a word of what the Malaysian government or media says.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ation-as-debris-is-linked-to-plane
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:04 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 178):
I'm with the relatives who don't believe a word of what the Malaysian government or media says.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...plane

Huh? Saying that the flaperon is "conclusively confirmed" to be from the 9M-MRO is the one thing they got right. These relatives, while I certainly feel sorry for them, make the conspiracy theorists here sound positively rational!

From the article:

Quote:
“I want to kill [Razak],” shouted Zhang Meiling, 62, whose daughter and son-in-law were on the plane. “What he said is nonsense.”

“I don’t believe it,” said Bao Lanfang, 63, whose son, daughter-in-law and three-year-old grandchild were on MH370. “It has been 515 [days] – that is enough time for them to have produced fake debris.”

“We hope that President Xi can quickly help us rescue our people,” said Zhang [Yongli].

Zhang Yongli said he remained convinced MH370 had either landed safely or not taken off at all.

“Think about it yourself. If the plane went down in the southern Indian Ocean there would be lots of debris,” he said.

“All those ships searching for so many days and they couldn’t find anything. They only found one piece of wreckage after a year-and-a-half. How can we believe this?

“If the plane sent out no signal it means nothing happened to the plane and the plane is in one piece. We have consulted experts on this.”
 
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winterlight
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:30 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 179):
Zhang Yongli said he remained convinced MH370 had either landed safely or not taken off at all.

Hijacked and landed is still my belief.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
kurtjeter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:39 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 180):
Hijacked and landed is still my belief.

And the found flaperon was planted deliberately . . . or is from another 777 that never reported it lost this part? Come on!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:24 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 175):
I don't sit in the captain did it camp. Honestly, it makes no sense whatsoever... And that goes for the co pilot too. Perhaps they really did perform a ditching.

So if the Captain or FO did not intentionally do it, then who ditched the plane?

Either the bad guy with supreme piloting skills ditched the plane and did not tell the world why it was hi-jacked, or, the Captain and FO were unable to control the plane and stop it from flying to the middle of nowhere but were somehow able to gain enough control at the end to pull off a ditching?

Neither of the above make as much sense as one of the pilots doing it after snapping.

Quoting winterlight (Reply 180):
Hijacked and landed is still my belief.

What do you think happened to the passengers?

Quoting kurtjeter (Reply 181):
And the found flaperon was planted deliberately . . . or is from another 777 that never reported it lost this part? Come on!

LOL
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777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:27 am

Why didnt the track the cell phones onboard/
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:32 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 183):
Why didnt the track the cell phones onboard/

How could they if they were all turned off or not being used?

The story of the cell phone tower in Malaysia picking up a re-attachment signal from the FO's phone is interesting, but we haven't heard much about it and I can't recall it ever being confirmed as being true by any credible authority.
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AIRWALK
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:56 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):
Neither of the above make as much sense as one of the pilots doing it after snapping.

So if you snapped you would kill yourself along with 238 other people?
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:57 am

I have read phones can be tracked even when off.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 185):
So if you snapped you would kill yourself along with 238 other people?

I would hope not.

Nonetheless, that is a strawman argument which is not surprising coming from you anyway.

Are you suggesting that nobody is capable of killing themselves along with hundreds of others after reaching a certain point?

Can you say with 100% certainty that you would never under any circumstance do something like that?
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747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:02 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 185):
So if you snapped you would kill yourself along with 238 other people?

Egypt Air 990 , SilkAir 185 and GermanWings 9525 pretty much gives you an answer to your question. Most of us would never do it..but those folks did it for whatever sickly reason. Moreover i would say 9525 was pretty much pre-meditated mass murder based on this - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32604552
 
lancelot07
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:07 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 186):

I have read phones can be tracked even when off.

Not when they are really off, and certainly not as soon as they are out of reach from a ground station.
 
liquidair
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:44 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):
So if the Captain or FO did not intentionally do it, then who ditched the plane?

Either the bad guy with supreme piloting skills ditched the plane and did not tell the world why it was hi-jacked, or, the Captain and FO were unable to control the plane and stop it from flying to the middle of nowhere but were somehow able to gain enough control at the end to pull off a ditching?

Neither of the above make as much sense as one of the pilots doing it after snapping

If you reread my post, I was saying that in that programme the following week, an investigator postulated that the aircraft had been hacked and diverted off course.

I've struggled with why the satcom came back on line- or how. If they, the pilots, somehow went through a checklist or just kept trying until they got some some control back out of the system, that might also fit with the "deliberate actions from the cockpit" and also with the "captain and copilot weren't nuts" theory.

Of course pilots sometime lose the plot and do unspeakable things, but this doesn't seem to be the case here- neither of them had any reason to or any shady medical background unlike the German wings pilot.

I'm probably wrong, but that programme might have had been on the ball.
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:59 am

Hacking...

Interesting, especially in light of the recent proven ability to hack Chrysler Jeep at long distances. How do we know that it is impossible for someone to remotely hack the FMC, program in a rogue path ending in something like POVUS RUNUT +1200, and would lock out any attempt by the pilots to reprogram the FMC. Thus, consider the disabling and repowering of the SATCOM. Imagine the surprise of the pilots if the aircraft started flying a strange course on its own; realizing that the a/c was being remotely controlled, they would have surmised that a probable link to the hacker(s) was the SATCOM system itself; thus they would depower the SATCOM, to see if that would allow them to regain control; when that failed, they repowered the SATCOM. The finally after flameout, the autopilot finally shut down, then the pilots were able to regain control to perform a controlled ditching...

Yes, I know, that's not much less far fetched than the kidnapping hypothesis...
 
YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:18 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 180):
Hijacked and landed is still my belief.
Quoting kurtjeter (Reply 181):
And the found flaperon was planted deliberately . . . or is from another 777 that never reported it lost this part?
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):
What do you think happened to the passengers?

That last question cannot be answered until it is known for sure what actually happened to flight MH370.
And out of respect for others it shouldn't become a topic for general discussion or guessing.

Is it possible that MH370 was hijacked and landed somewhere? Absolutely ...
However, a lot of what so far was considered to be fact would have to be reevaluated, it would be all different, including many of the assumptions made here and elsewhere.

It would be no real problem for anyone with the knowledge and the right kind of means to have landed that aircraft somewhere and, indeed, take a few bits of it, prepare them and then "plant" them, to make sure they would be found.
("We found some of it but, sorry, we can't find anything else..."; case closed.)

The 'why' and the 'what would they have wanted the aircraft for' are ultimately only peripheral questions.
The whole issue of MH370 may be a matter that is of more concern than just for the aviation industry; instead there could be powerful forces at play, behind the scenes, where we can only guess.
If one takes a really good look, around the world, we find that quite regularly there are deliberate actions which are much more ghastly than the disappearance of just one aircraft.
(Even though we live in the 21st century ...)

Quoting winterlight (Reply 178):
I'm with the relatives who don't believe a word of what the Malaysian government or media says.

That, by definition, accuses the government and media of conspiracy.
Those always harping on about 'conspiracy theories', please take note ....
 
AIRWALK
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:33 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 187):
Are you suggesting that nobody is capable of killing themselves along with hundreds of others after reaching a certain point?

Of course not, I just see a disconnect between 'losing it' and murdering hundreds of other people. I don't know the captain personally, and I'll assume you don't either. So all I can go off is the information we have such as what was in the preliminary report that noted nothing was out of the ordinary and his mannerisms on the day of the flight were normal.

People lose it, or snap, every day. Most don't take hundreds of people with them. So what makes you think he was capable of this?

Furthermore, in law there is a difference between committing a crime in the moment and waiting it out. Kaiarahi might be able to explain it better, but it's basically the example of coming home to find your wife with another guy, and instead of attacking her in the moment, waiting it out and doing it later after you have had time to think it through. Premeditated murder in this case. So if the captain did do this, it isn't really him snapping, as he would have had a chance to think things through. And that's a completely different thing. For someone to camly go to work, and not display any signs of what he was planning to commit, and be able to go through the preflight procedures without betraying anything etc. I find that hard to believe.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 187):
Nonetheless, that is a strawman argument which is not surprising coming from you anyway.

...
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
AIRWALK
Posts: 239
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:11 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 188):

I'm not saying it's not possible, all I'm saying is I have seen nothing as of yet that convinces me that he was capable of this or at least that he definitely did do it in this case. Over a year since it happened, also it being a high profile story and there is no proof yet of anything that suggests he would have done it. The only reason people can give who are convinced he did it is 'there's no other possibility' or 'look at his facebook' Not the strongest arguments when you are essentially accusing a man of killing hundreds of people.
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
KL808
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:16 pm

Very interesting event:

Tense Moments On BA Tatl March 2015 (by nitepilot79 Aug 14 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Could this have happened to the MH370 crew but didn't notice it?
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
kurtjeter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:00 am

Interesting suggestion (regarding the above post).
But I would think not, given the turns . . . . and the ample opportunity (even if difficult) for the crew to announce their trouble.
Would like to see what our pros on a.net have to say . . . . .
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 190):
Of course pilots sometime lose the plot and do unspeakable things, but this doesn't seem to be the case here- neither of them had any reason to or any shady medical background unlike the German wings pilot.

"neither of them had any reason to" - really?

You can't think of anything at all?

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 188):
Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 185):So if you snapped you would kill yourself along with 238 other people?

Egypt Air 990 , SilkAir 185 and GermanWings 9525 pretty much gives you an answer to your question.

  

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 189):
Quoting 777way (Reply 186):I have read phones can be tracked even when off.

Not when they are really off, and certainly not as soon as they are out of reach from a ground station.

  

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 192):
Quoting winterlight (Reply 180):Hijacked and landed is still my belief. Quoting kurtjeter (Reply 181):And the found flaperon was planted deliberately . . . or is from another 777 that never reported it lost this part?Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):What do you think happened to the passengers?

That last question cannot be answered until it is known for sure what actually happened to flight MH370.

Actually, it can.

If somebody says "I think the plane landed and is in a hanger" they can also say how they think the rest of the event / story unfolded  

If people can answer what they think happened to the plane they can also answer what they think happened to everything / everyone on it, because, after all, some of the conspiracy theories are based upon the plane being taken for something or some people on board...

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 193):
People lose it, or snap, every day. Most don't take hundreds of people with them. So what makes you think he was capable of this?

Gameel Al-Batouti was.

Tsu Way Ming was.

Andreas Lubitz was.

Auburn Calloway was, but thankfully failed. All because of reasons that many people face everyday and just deal with by getting on with life...

Is there something that you know that makes you think that Z was not capable of doing what we are discussing?

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 193):
Furthermore, in law there is a difference between committing a crime in the moment and waiting it out.

I know that and understand that. But if one of the pilots did it, whether it was premeditated or not, the end result was still the same regardless of legal semantics.

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 194):
Quoting 747megatop (Reply 188):I'm not saying it's not possible, all I'm saying is I have seen nothing as of yet that convinces me that he was capable of this or at least that he definitely did do it in this case.

Mr AIRWALK, was there anything to suggest that any of the four pilots I mentioned above were capable of doing what they did before their flight? And don't just say depression for Lubtiz like he is the only pilot suffering from depression...
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lancelot07
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:22 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 195):

Very interesting event:

Tense Moments On BA Tatl March 2015 (by nitepilot79 Aug 14 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Could this have happened to the MH370 crew but didn't notice it?

Something along that line is very possible.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 197):
Gameel Al-Batouti was.
Tsu Way Ming was.
Andreas Lubitz was.
Auburn Calloway was

But in each of these cases a compelling motive was discovered shortly after the event. Not so with the crew of MH370.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 81

Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 198):
But in each of these cases a compelling motive was discovered shortly after the event.

If each of those cases were underpinned by such "a compelling motive ", why is it that the Indonesian NTSC regarding SilkAir 185 and the Egyptian ECAA regarding EgyptAir 990 couldn't see such compelling motives  
Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 198):
Not so with the crew of MH370.

Those who are able to connect the dots can see a possible motive.
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