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UsAir737
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Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:10 pm

With the upcoming 773ER deliveries will those A/C be designated 777-322ER (legacy UA code) or 777-324 (legacy CO). If I'm not mistaken these will be the first new deliveries that have a customer code attached (737's are part of PM CO) and 787's don't have a customer code. Ideas? I'm thinking they'll be 777-322's but well see
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LAX772LR
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:24 pm

There's no reason for them to be anything other than -22s.

CO's was the surviving operational certificate, but it's tied to UA now. I doubt Boeing cares about either of the above though.
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STT757
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:31 pm

Quoting UsAir737 (Thread starter):
(737's are part of PM CO)

Not the one's they're taking delivery of now, those are all post merger orders.
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UA444
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):

But they're built to the same specs as the ones already certified from when CO took delivery of them, so I can see why the code never changed.

The 773s should be 322s, but I can see the HOU crew making sure it doesn't happen.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:37 pm

I doubt UA gives a crap about -322 versus -324, I'd say the decision is Boeings to make, and given that UA is the purchaser (merger or no merger) I'd expect it to be -322.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 3):
The 773s should be 322s, but I can see the HOU crew making sure it doesn't happen.

If the operating certificate, CEO, IATA/ARC code, and res systems at UA are all sCO, and because of the fact that 737s ordered after the merger that are being delivered are -924ERs, I see nothing other than a -324ER in the UA fleet.

About all that is sUA at the merged airline is Rhapsody in Blue (thank goodness), headquarters in Chicago (done because Glenn demanded it and because it would have cost hundreds of millions to break the Willis Tower lease, enough to outweigh a move to Houston), Hemispheres magazine, the SFO heavy MX base, and much of the sUA fleet. Even the sUA A350 orders were altered by Smisek.

[Edited 2015-07-04 17:52:24]
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 3):
The 773s should be 322s, but I can see the HOU crew making sure it doesn't happen.

-324 FTW!
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
If the operating certificate, CEO, IATA/ARC code, and res systems at UA are all sCO,

None of that has anything to do with how Boeing assigns customer codes.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
and because of the fact that 737s ordered after the merger that are being delivered are -924ERs

Probably because it was easier/required less paperwork than "certifying" a -922ER that was identical to -924ERs already in service. Similar things have been done before, such as KLM's 737NGs getting the K2 customer code rather than their old 06 customer code because a "737-8K2" was already certified and flying with Transavia, and as I understand it, it was simply a matter of making the paperwork easier and had no other consequence.
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Spacepope
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting HoMSar (Reply 7):

Since there are neither -322 or -324s yet anyway, it really doesn't matter. Since both operate -200s though ( notice the lack of an apostrophe when pluralizing stuff thread starter!) I give it a 50/50 chance of either customer code getting used.
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UA444
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:53 am

I've noticed on FIDS displays when it lists a/c type it will say 777-222 when its a PMUA bird but haven't seen -224 when there's an ex-CO 777. Maybe there's some hope.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
There's no reason for them to be anything other than -22s.

CO's was the surviving operational certificate, but it's tied to UA now.
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 4):
given that UA is the purchaser (merger or no merger) I'd expect it to be -322.

I'd put my money on -322 being used given that UA is the purchasing airline - not that it really matters either way.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
If the operating certificate, CEO, IATA/ARC code, and res systems at UA are all sCO, and because of the fact that 737s ordered after the merger that are being delivered are -924ERs, I see nothing other than a -324ER in the UA fleet.

Interesting point.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 8):

Since there are neither -322 or -324s yet anyway, it really doesn't matter. Since both operate -200s though ( notice the lack of an apostrophe when pluralizing stuff thread starter!) I give it a 50/50 chance of either customer code getting used.

That's a good way to break it down!

I'll guess we'll find out eventually.

I hope to see the UA 777-300ER, whether it be a 777-322ER or a 777-324ER, in SYD one day  
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ExL10Mktg
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
About all that is sUA at the merged airline is Rhapsody in Blue (thank goodness), headquarters in Chicago (done because Glenn demanded it and because it would have cost hundreds of millions to break the Willis Tower lease,

I think there's a bit more involved than just the lease. CO (UA) could probably have swallowed the short term penalty on some office space until it was re-leased, particularly as it's costly for Houston to run co-HQs with Chicago which the surviving CO management no doubt would have preferred not to do.

But according to a good friend of mine who, shall we say, was very much in a position to know the precise details, told me a number of years ago that when UA was looking to relocate from Elk Grove, the city gave them a huge package to make Chicago the HQ, including tax breaks (I think) and very favorable long term leases at O'Hare PROVIDED that "United" remained headquartered in Chicago AND that the name survived in the event of a merger, otherwise the deal was abrogated. I believe this was after the first flirtation with CO (and certainly well before the negotiations that led to the current merged carrier.) IIRC it was a 20 year commitment, so new gate leases at ORD negotiated with an angry City of Chicago would be very, very expensive in the short and long run. Hell hath no fury like a politician double crossed!
 
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 9):
I've noticed on FIDS displays when it lists a/c type it will say 777-222 when its a PMUA bird but haven't seen -224 when there's an ex-CO 777.

Probably so one can be aware of the engine differences (sCO are GE, sUA are P&W) and configuration differences between sCO and sUA 777s. Remember, the FIDS systems that these displays run off of are often seen by those working at/in the airport.
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UA444
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 11):

The name is United because they were the better known brand and they were the purchasing airline and wanted their HQ. The issue with taxes and Chicago giving UA tax breaks to move to the loop also played a part in making sure HQ remained where it was.
 
Max Q
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:51 am

They will be -324's.


Now if only we could get rid of 'rhapsody in blue...'

[Edited 2015-07-04 21:58:57]
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:05 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 8):
Since there are neither -322 or -324s yet anyway, it really doesn't matter. Since both operate -200s though ( notice the lack of an apostrophe when pluralizing stuff thread starter!) I give it a 50/50 chance of either customer code getting used.

I don't suppose it will even matter that CO used GE engines and these come with GE engines. Different variants of airframe and engine.
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
I doubt Boeing cares about either of the above though.

It seems only some die-hard CO types care.   
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strfyr51
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:33 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 4):
I doubt UA gives a crap about -322 versus -324, I'd say the decision is Boeings to make, and given that UA is the purchaser (merger or no merger) I'd expect it to be -322.

Since the new 777's will come with GE Engines I suspect they'll come as -324's all the -222'er's came with the Pratt -4090's
We had a reason for Not ordering the GE's and though that might not be valid today the - X24 model might stand.
 
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:52 am

The customer code is assigned by Boeing according the ordering customer (airline, lessor or BBJ customer), in this case UA has ordered the 777-300ER aircaft, so the Boeing customer code 22 for UA will probably assigned , except if the aircaft are operational leased the customer code of the lessor may be used.

If during the time after actual start of component production the ordering company/lessor has been taken over, merged or went out of business, the aircraft will be completed with the assigned customer code.

If a larger batch of the same aircraft type has been ordered, Boeing decides, together with the new customer, if the remainining aircraft (not in production yet) will be built with the excisting customer code or a new customer code.

With aircraft (parts) already in production, the customer code (almost) never changed, because all the paperwork would than have to be altered (at additional costs for the new customer).

The actual customer options of the ordered aircraft are defined by the variable number of an aircraft : a new variable number block will be assigned for the UA ordered 777-300ER aircraft.
Example : WE701 - WE730 could be blocked. W= 777 series E = current built 300ER full pax series.
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intotheair
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:15 pm

Customer codes don't always mean anything. Right now, UA flies N105UA, which was delivered as a 747-451.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
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diverted
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:37 pm

Quoting intotheair (Reply 19):
Customer codes don't always mean anything. Right now, UA flies N105UA, which was delivered as a 747-451.

IIRC there were 2 747-451's orderd by NW, that were NTU. UA took them, but as they had already entered production, they remained -451s, as that's who ordered them.

Quoting 747classic (Reply 18):
If during the time after actual start of component production the ordering company/lessor has been taken over, merged or went out of business, the aircraft will be completed with the assigned customer code.

If a larger batch of the same aircraft type has been ordered, Boeing decides, together with the new customer, if the remainining aircraft (not in production yet) will be built with the excisting customer code or a new customer code.

With aircraft (parts) already in production, the customer code (almost) never changed, because all the paperwork would than have to be altered (at additional costs for the new customer).

Exactly. For example, WS customer code with Boeing is CT, so their aircraft are 737-6/7/8CT but their leased birds are 737-76N (Gecas' code) but the aircraft are all the same


I'm hoping to see these 77W's arrive as 777-322ER's personally, but we'll see!
 
mm320cap
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:06 pm

What will be interesting is if the flight attendants still don't have a joint contract by January 2017 when the first olanes arrive, it WILL matter which legacy "gets them". Very similar to the 737-900ER's that are coming on line now.... these are LUAL airplanes crewed by LUAL Flight Attendants. I'm sure both sides will make a play for them. Considering these are not replacement airplanes for anything presently on the property, it won't be clear who should fly them.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:13 pm

Does it matter? Really, does it matter? Does even the most frequent flier, turbo-platinum-1K flier care?

Quoting scbriml (Reply 16):
It seems only some die-hard CO types care.

Interesting, but something of a projection. The first four replies were from pmUA fanboys.

Quoting mm320cap (Reply 21):
What will be interesting is if the flight attendants still don't have a joint contract by January 2017 when the first olanes arrive, it WILL matter which legacy "gets them". Very similar to the 737-900ER's that are coming on line now....

Um, those are 737-924ERs.  

It's WAY past time to move on, the new UA has much, much more pressing issues than Boeing's choice/assignment of aircraft code.
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hOMSaR
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
I don't suppose it will even matter that CO used GE engines and these come with GE engines. Different variants of airframe and engine.

Nope.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 17):
Since the new 777's will come with GE Engines I suspect they'll come as -324's all the -222'er's came with the Pratt -4090's
We had a reason for Not ordering the GE's and though that might not be valid today the - X24 model might stand.

The engine selection has nothing to do with customer code (just ask BA, who has both GE- and RR-powered 777-236s). Nor does what door configuration is installed (at least NW, probably others, had 757-251s with different door arrangements), nor does any other customer option out there (different avionics packages, short-field packages, galley layouts, Sky Interior vs old interior, coffee cup holder placement in the cockpit, etc.) have any bearing whatsoever on the customer code. The CEO of the airline at the time order doesn't matter, the software they use to track their fleet doesn't matter, etc.

The only thing that really matters is...well, these days, nothing. Which is probably why Boeing has discontinued the use of customer codes on new models. But, at least ostensibly, the only thing that matters is who ordered the plane when it was built (but there are a number of exceptions to even that rule, as noted above with different examples of 737s ordered by an airline actually getting the customer code of another carrier to simplify paperwork).

This topic comes up every once in a while, but I recall examples given that even Boeing has not been consistent on when they will and will not change a customer code pre-delivery. There are some examples where the original ordering customer's code stayed with the plane, and in a previous thread, another poster cited examples where that wasn't the case (I seem to recall it being related to early 757 deliveries to a European carrier...but the details escape me right now).

Then there was the prototype 777-200, which CX then purchased years after it had been built, with a number of flights already under its belt, and Boeing retroactively changed its customer code to 67 to match the other Cathay jets.

I think airliners.net is the last place where a Boeing jet's customer code means anything.
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UA444
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting mm320cap (Reply 21):

They will be flown by PMUA crews since they are replacing 787 ordered by UA.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting HoMSar (Reply 23):
Which is probably why Boeing has discontinued the use of customer codes on new models.

Have they, though?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 25):

No, they have not. The customer code is not always listed on the type certificate but it still exists.
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briguychau
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:32 pm

The 787 has no customer codes.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 22):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 16):
It seems only some die-hard CO types care.

Interesting, but something of a projection. The first four replies were from pmUA fanboys.

Add Airbus fanboys to that   
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FWAERJ
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting briguychau (Reply 27):
The 787 has no customer codes.

The 737MAX and 777X won't have customer codes, either. The last newly-designed Boeing aircraft to use customer codes was the 747-8.

Part of the reason for the change is that BBJ customers are also assigned customer codes, and with the large amount of BBJ customers and startup airlines in the Boeing order book (mostly on the 737NG side), Boeing is running out of customer codes. Hence why the 787 started the phaseout of customer codes.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):
Now if only we could get rid of 'rhapsody in blue...'

Ain't gonna happen. Even Smisek himself said "when our customers hear Rhapsody in Blue, they think of United". And UA did the research to prove it. UA considered ditching Rhapsody in Blue for a new song after the CO merger, but polled many of their key travelers - both sUA and sCO, including elite frequent fliers - first about a change. The bottom line among both sUA and sCO pax: Don't mess with Rhapsody.

Since then, UA (and their post-merger ad agency mcgarrybowen) have commissioned several new versions of Rhapsody in Blue, and the name of the Gershwin classic also lent itself to a new luxury lifestyle magazine called Rhapsody, designed for BusinessFirst and Global First customers.
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karadion
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:36 am

Customer codes will continue to be used by Boeing as usual when it comes to the firing order ie UAL. What is being dropped is the firing order designation ie 787-8, not 787-822 (as some snobs want to pretend it exists). But that policy only applies to the 787, 737 MAX, 777X, and whatever future aircrafts designs that Boeing comes up with in the future. Now since United ordered the 777 Classic, the firing order designation should be -324. After all, going by the last several contracts by United, all 737's have been coming out as -924's for example.

Bark among yourself now.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:35 am

it REALLY matters not a damn BIT. My paycheck comes from UNITED and it's backed by currency.
Other than that who in the heck CARES??? We're at the WHQ in Chicago, not Houston
We built a brand new computer Center in Chicago in the parking lot of the old WHQ at Elk Grove IL.
The company is moving flight training to Denver at the site of the old DENTK.
Airplanes are being modified and Overhauled at both IAH and SFO .
What Else do you Need to know that says UNITED??
The personnell system is giving everybody UAL "file" numbers (Employee Numbers)
All you need DO is drive south or north on US101 past the SFO Airport to see the Name on the Building or EAST and West on Algonquin Road in Elk Grove IL to see the name on the Sign. or ant Terminal in the USAand you'll see one name UNITED. You guys are making much too much about who owns the company,the stock I own? Says United- Continental UACH and the stock symbol is UAL (and by the way it's 55/45% on the UA side) Not that it matters..
When I retire ? It will be from United Airlines. ANYthing Else?? is "Not Exactly" so it Don't matter!!!
Smisek made the Choice to adopt what the BOD said. "UNITED will become the sirviving company"
He DID have a choice the S-CO BOD had a choice. and they made it. We need to Quit re-fighting the "Civil War"
We've moved on. Hell !! Rumour has it they're looking for a NEW paint job We don't need one as far as I can tell but they're not going to change the neme so what difference does it make? We Were Are and Will BE "United"
 
01pewterz28
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):

And UA is closing the pmCO Flight Training Center and moving it to the pmUAL UAL DENTK. In the end who cares it's ONE AIRLINE UNITED. Legacy CO is GONE it's UNITED AIRLINES no matter what, that is the name on the planes you folks need to let it go. The good people at both Continental and United are "United" end of story.
 
UA444
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting Karadion (Reply 34):

That's because the paperwork already existed for a -924 and the new order just continued having them built to that spec. Same as KLM taking 777-306s but 737-8K2 due to having them built to Transavia specs. Saves on certification costs.

[Edited 2015-07-06 08:44:40]
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting 01pewterz28 (Reply 38):
In the end who cares it's ONE AIRLINE UNITED. Legacy CO is GONE it's UNITED AIRLINES no matter what, that is the name on the planes you folks need to let it go. The good people at both Continental and United are "United" end of story.

  

It is going to spell UNITED on those fuselages. And that is all that matters. It will be UNITED's aircraft built to UNITED's specs. Lot's of new aircraft coming into UNITED's Fleet.
You are here.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:51 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 37):
Other than that who in the heck CARES???

  

I honestly can't remember any merger where the personnel from each side retained so much bitterness at the other side for so long. Unbelievable how much emotion is being attached to one digit of a model designation that no one outside the industry will ever see.

What is clear, regardless of customer code, is that these 77Ws will be configured more like sCO international aircraft. But that is the way the whole industry is going.
 
DualQual
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 42):

To be fair, I think most of the bitterness is being espoused by people who have never worked a day in their lives at either pre merger carrier nor the new merged carrier. Having worked with both sides of the fence I can pretty much say I've seen bad attitudes and wonderful attitudes from both sides in the same ratio. Most just want to come to work, do the job the best they can, and go home. Yes, both sides have the extreme minority that will carry the torch for what was, but the bulk are just trying to,get on with their lives. A lot of what I see on this site is posted by fanboys of whatever pre existing entity they were allegiant to, is emotionally biased in that direction, and not at all based in the reality of actually working day to day in the reality of the new entity.

777-322 or 324? Couldn't care less. It's a wide body being flown by United pilots of a combined seniority list and not outsourced to an alliance partner. As far as it is concerned, it's a 777-300.

[Edited 2015-07-06 16:10:26]

[Edited 2015-07-06 16:12:05]
There's no known cure for stupid
 
bohica
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:11 am

All the bickering on this thread proves that United is still very much divided.

Sad.  
 
strfyr51
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RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:22 am

Quoting bohica (Reply 49):
All the bickering on this thread proves that United is still very much divided.

That's not True. We might be a LOT of things but divided isn't one of them. We do what we have to because We're all in this together, if anybody was too sour on this?? They'd Quit!! , So Far? I haven't seen any MASS Exodus heading out the Door!!. Matter of FACT? I see them coming IN the door and up the elevator!!
 
DualQual
Posts: 725
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

RE: Customer Code For New Build United 777's

Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:12 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 51):

I said it before, the bickering is amongst emotional fan boys who have never earned a day's pay from UA, CO, or UCH.
There's no known cure for stupid

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