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Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:33 pm
by kaitak
Good evening folks and welcome to our 12th thread of 2015.

It's been a good month and traffic is looking good. Aer Lingus just announced a 2% growth for June (vs 2014), although unusually, EI Regional showed a significant fall.

Some other interesting developments this month:

- Two new routes for Cork: LCY and DUS, LCY being with Cityjet and DUS with Aer Lingus.
- Delta has just raised our hopes of A330s next Summer, with -300s flying the ATL route from next June (hopefully they'll hold to that!)
- Six 737-800s delivered to FR from June 2- July 2, 2015, latest being EI-FIR. Also, a secondhand 737-700 added as well.

So, things are looking up and let's hope the traffic growth continues (and EIR finds its mojo again!).

Over to you!

Here's the link to 11/15, if anyone wants to refer back: Irish 11/15 - Ta An Samhradh Ag Teacht! (by kaitak Jun 21 2015 in Civil Aviation)

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
by OA260
Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
- Two new routes for Cork: LCY and DUS, LCY being with Cityjet and DUS with Aer Lingus.

Good to see positive news from ORK. Hopefully its a case of the first of more routes. The annual DUB-ORK route question has arisen again but that may be harder to imagine right now.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm
by AmricanShamrok
Is it odd that EI just announced one route as part of the Summer 2016 schedule? Don't they usually release the full schedule complete with new routes, capacity increases (or reductions) etc. all together?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:54 pm
by shamrock321
EI seem to be struggling with aircraft at the moment, quite a few 1-2 hour delays and today's 139 is currently still in Dublin with a rolling delay.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:02 pm
by EI320
Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 2):
Is it odd that EI just announced one route as part of the Summer 2016 schedule? Don't they usually release the full schedule complete with new routes, capacity increases (or reductions) etc. all together?

It would seem that the airport and the local tourism and business lobbies have been pushing hard for this route. EI may have been urged to finalise the schedule and make the announcement at the earliest possible opportunity so that ORK and the relevant tourism authorities can kick off their marketing efforts ASAP. It's a good strategy and should help to avoid a repeat of the CSA fiasco.

It's an unusually long lead-in time for a new 2x weekly short-haul route though.

[Edited 2015-07-06 13:03:25]

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:15 pm
by OA260
Quoting EI320 (Reply 4):
EI may have been urged to finalise the schedule and make the announcement at the earliest possible opportunity so that ORK and the relevant tourism authorities can kick off their marketing efforts ASAP

That certainly seems to be the case. The earlier the better. They will want to maximise early bookings.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:37 pm
by JAmie2k9
Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 2):

Usually but suspect the route announcement today needed to be on it's own considering it's really important and the way Cork is currently. They never usually make a major deal about new routes unless they are T/A.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:15 pm
by diesel1
Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 3):
EI seem to be struggling with aircraft at the moment

And crewing?

Saw that the EI4793 from Bodrum to Dublin (A320 EI-DVN) diverted into Cardiff this morning landing at 02:22, and stayed until 11:45.

Diversion due to the crew being out of hours.

Whilst running late, this was only by around 90 minutes, and the diversion into CWL meant it landed perhaps around just 30 mins earlier than it might have had it proceeded to DUB

Seems odd that there wasn't an option to use a bit more discretion, so I presume there must be a bit more to this than appears.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:29 pm
by JAmie2k9
Quoting diesel1 (Reply 7):

As you say running 90 minutes late, re routed on the way back which increased flight time by 30-40 minutes due to weather so all in all around 2 hours late. Instead of operating SE to NW Germany it was routed West into Czech Republic and onto Eastern Germany before turning south of Berlin and crossing Northern Germany.

The flight usually makes a fuel stop in AMS, crew may of felt they could reach Dublin without fuel stop at the time.

[Edited 2015-07-06 14:38:39]

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:28 am
by JAmie2k9
Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 3):

EI139 scheduled at 16.15 pushed back at 00.25, aircraft in question is EWR, due back in Dublin at 14.30.

Slightly surprised they didn't cancel/re-schedule the flight, not exactly great for passengers many who would of traveled from Europe combined that EI have a spare slot for A330 fleet today.

Second time in 10 days BOS has been hit, last time it was 5 hours.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:41 am
by rojam
And EI565 BCN-DUB last night was over 3 hours late, arriving at gate at 03h45. On Thursday 25th (or rather, Friday 26th as it turned out), it was 2.5 hours late - at gate at 02h43. Tonight's (I'm not on it, but was curious) landed moments ago and is probably at gate just now - 01h38.

Is this Aer Lingus's worst performing route ?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:10 am
by JAmie2k9
Quoting rojam (Reply 10):

That specific BCN-DUB seems to encounter major delays very frequantly and it probally takes top spot.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:11 am
by shamrock350
Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
So, things are looking up and let's hope the traffic growth continues (and EIR finds its mojo again!).

Interesting to see Regional number fall after years of constant growth, plenty of new routes have been added but a noticeable one missing is SEN, it was three daily last summer and quite popular so might have something to do with the fall.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:27 am
by OA260
Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 12):
noticeable one missing is SEN

SEN is a weird one. They seem to be just a EZY airport now and have announced a few more routes. These are all typical popular European and alot of sun holiday routes. One then has to wonder if the numbers just didnt add up especially if they were getting small % of feed to TATL.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:51 am
by EI320
Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 12):
Interesting to see Regional number fall after years of constant growth, plenty of new routes have been added but a noticeable one missing is SEN, it was three daily last summer and quite popular so might have something to do with the fall.

The closure of the SNN base (up to 16 daily sectors) and the use of aircraft for the CityJet contract will have contributed to the decline.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:29 am
by OA260
An interesting article for those with shares :


How do I deal with looming IAG offer for my Aer Lingus shares?

I have 400 Aer Lingus shares and I received a letter recently from Davy offering me two options:

1. Don’t do anything

2. Accept the €2.50 cash offer.

When I rang Davy and asked them what would happen to my shares if I decided to go for option one they said they didn’t know.

I tried to explain to the Davy person that this, therefore, was not really an option but I don’t think she understood the point I was making.

Do you know what will happen to the shares under option one? I would be very grateful if you could help as Davy have given me a deadline of July 9th to decide.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/p...for-my-aer-lingus-shares-1.2275265

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:23 am
by AmricanShamrok
Turkish Airlines flight TK3 (IST-JFK) has diverted to SNN, arriving at 10:57. The operating aircraft is an Airbus A330-300 registered TC-JNH. Suspected medical diversion as it is estimated to resume its journey at 12:00.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:35 am
by EIDL
Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
Do you know what will happen to the shares under option one? I would be very grateful if you could help as Davy have given me a deadline of July 9th to decide.

Option 1 is basically a no vote to the bid, Option 2 a yes vote.

If the bid fails in either case you keep your shares. If it succeeds (more than the compulsary takeover figure which is I believe 90% but I'm not entirely certain), you get 2.50 a share

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:00 am
by Clydenairways
Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 8):
The flight usually makes a fuel stop in AMS, crew may of felt they could reach Dublin without fuel stop at the time.

Maybe EI should consider raising the weights on a few 320's for flights like this if they regularly have to stop.

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 12):
Interesting to see Regional number fall after years of constant growth, plenty of new routes have been added but a noticeable one missing is SEN, it was three daily last summer and quite popular so might have something to do with the fall.

I wonder if the Franchise deal with BE had anything to do with the reduced numbers as well?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:01 pm
by SURFER
Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 16):
Turkish Airlines flight TK3 (IST-JFK) has diverted to SNN, arriving at 10:57. The operating aircraft is an Airbus A330-300 registered TC-JNH. Suspected medical diversion as it is estimated to resume its journey at 12:00.

Back in the air and on its way to JFK again.

One of the flight crew of the Aeromexico left a very nice thank you message on the Shannon airport Facebook page the other day thanking everyone from ATC right down to the airport authorities and handlers for there brilliant assistance with the diversion last week. Nice touch by him!

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:10 pm
by Eagleboy
Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 3):
EI seem to be struggling with aircraft at the moment, quite a few 1-2 hour delays

As uas problemsual in the Summer they are sweating the assets very heavily. EI planning is very tight but has problems dealing with disruptions. The accountancy led mgmt team discount the possibility of delays/weather/tech disruptions.

Quoting diesel1 (Reply 7):
And crewing?.....................
Diversion due to the crew being out of hours.

Whilst running late, this was only by around 90 minutes, and the diversion into CWL meant it landed perhaps around just 30 mins earlier than it might have had it proceeded to DUB

Seems odd that there wasn't an option to use a bit more discretion, so I presume there must be a bit more to this than appears.

Similar situation with crew. Crew may have been rostered within an hour of their legal limit. This can be extended by the captain but only in circumstances where they is no fatigue issues. Doing DUB-BOD-DUB on your 5th or 6th day in a row is a fatigue problem waiting to happen......but EI plan this as "it is legal"

My mate is currently running at a rolling block hours of 890-895. Legal maximum per year is 900.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:59 pm
by JAmie2k9
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 18):
Maybe EI should consider raising the weights on a few 320's for flights like this if they regularly have to stop.

I agree and BJV is a route that can be as successful as ADR.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 18):
Interesting to see Regional number fall after years of constant growth, plenty of new routes have been added but a noticeable one missing is SEN, it was three daily last summer and quite popular so might have something to do with the fall.

The SNN exit will hit numbers but DUB-UK has become very competitive with FR dumping capacity over the last 12 months and profit on many routes has dipped and some cuts on key routes.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:17 pm
by ClassicLover
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 20):
My mate is currently running at a rolling block hours of 890-895. Legal maximum per year is 900.

Nothing wrong with that. I know BA crew who have run out of hours and had to not work for a few weeks. Human assets should be used to their maximum, they are in any other job so flying shouldn't be any different.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:22 pm
by nbmike
Quoting classiclover (Reply 22):
Nothing wrong with that. I know BA crew who have run out of hours and had to not work for a few weeks

Exactly I'm grounded the whole month of July as I am out of hours.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:12 pm
by Eagleboy
Quoting classiclover (Reply 22):
Human assets should be used to their maximum, they are in any other job so flying shouldn't be any different.
Quoting nbmike (Reply 23):
Exactly I'm grounded the whole month of July as I am out of hours.

I wasn't arguing that the 'assets' shouldn't be used.....but bad forward planning leads to a situation where you have a resource gap, or grounded crew as in nbmike's case. viation has the capacity for a lot of disruption, while the beancounters may not like the strategic planers have to left some room for disruption recovery.
i.e. your crew may only need 12 hours between duties at home base, but isn't it a safer bet to try to keep the rest period around 13-14 hours, thus giving a bit of flexibility in case of disruption.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:05 pm
by Cipango
The EI 102/103 (early morning flight from DUB-JFK) flights, generally speaking, cruise at an altitude of 41,000 feet. Most of EI 757 flights don't cruise at this altitude and the same with other 757 flights of a similar route distance.

Could this be an indication of light loads, hence the higher cruising altitude?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:08 pm
by frostyj
It obviously has to fly higher because its going against the flow!

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:10 pm
by JAmie2k9
Quoting Cipango (Reply 25):

Loads are very healthy, so not sure if it has any bearing.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:11 pm
by Eirules
Quoting frostyj (Reply 26):

No it's not. Many transatlantic departures leave Europe between 7.30 and 9. This has been the case at LHR for years

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:54 pm
by frostyj
Quoting EIRules (Reply 28):

Yes it is. I've tracked it and it's basically the first plane to go westbound. The flights that leave Europe at 8 don't arrive at the atlantic until at least an hour after this flight has..

You do realise that Europe is at least an hour's flying time from the atlantic (usually more) right?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:35 pm
by SURFER
Quoting Cipango (Reply 25):

Is that altitude of 41000 correct because most times 757s file at 35000 for the crossing but obviously this can differ with altitude for oceanic entry points and as the aircraft burns fuel it can climb higher.
I've never seen a 757 at that height unless it's a ferry flight. Usually get up to 39000 towards the end of a flight when the aircraft has gotten lighter.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:38 pm
by frostyj
I've flown in a 757 at that height a few times.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:43 am
by MesaFlyGuy
Quoting frostyj (Reply 29):
Yes it is. I've tracked it and it's basically the first plane to go westbound. The flights that leave Europe at 8 don't arrive at the atlantic until at least an hour after this flight has..

Either way, other flights from Europe to the US go against traffic as well, yet that doesn't seem to affect their flight levels like this.

[Edited 2015-07-07 18:44:00]

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:02 am
by Eagleboy
Dont argue with frostj, he is always right you know!

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:21 am
by 321neo
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 33):

Dont argue with frostj, he is always right you know!

Word  

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:57 am
by Cipango
Quoting SURFER (Reply 30):
Is that altitude of 41000 correct because most times 757s file at 35000 for the crossing but obviously this can differ with altitude for oceanic entry points and as the aircraft burns fuel it can climb higher.
I've never seen a 757 at that height unless it's a ferry flight. Usually get up to 39000 towards the end of a flight when the aircraft has gotten lighter.

Exactly what I thought too. I don't often see 757's at that altitude. Even now when I filter FR24 for 757's above 38,000 feet I only see aircraft at 39,000 feet. Glad to hear it's not due to loads though!

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/Cipango91/EI%2040000_zpsrdeargva.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/Cipango91/EI%2041000_zpseh3y4tw7.png

[Edited 2015-07-08 01:02:21]

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:03 am
by factsonly
Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 21):
DUB-UK has become very competitive with FR dumping capacity over the last 12 months and profit on many routes has dipped and some cuts on key routes.

And rumour has it that FR has gained 9 slots at AMS and plans to use these for a 4x/daily DUB-AMS-DUB route starting W15, breaking the longstanding EI monopoly on the AMS route.

The other five AMS slots are supposed to be for FR's 5x/daily STN-AMS route.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:04 am
by nbmike
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 24):
I wasn't arguing that the 'assets' shouldn't be used.....but bad forward planning leads to a situation where you have a resource gap



That would make sense but it appears (from a crew point of view) that the main concern is use them now worry about next month, next month. Don't get me wrong I have no objection to working the full 900 hours per year.

[Edited 2015-07-08 01:22:25]

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:28 am
by Clydenairways
Quoting factsonly (Reply 36):
And rumour has it that FR has gained 9 slots at AMS and plans to use these for a 4x/daily DUB-AMS-DUB route starting W15, breaking the longstanding EI monopoly on the AMS route.

I think EI will be alright as long as they have the KLM codeshare. I've no doubt that FR's entry will have some effect but it would also grow traffic. 4X day seems like overkill though even for FR, maybe they mean 2x in each direction?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:38 am
by iRISH251
Quoting SURFER (Reply 30):
Is that altitude of 41000 correct because most times 757s file at 35000 for the crossing but obviously this can differ with altitude for oceanic entry points and as the aircraft burns fuel it can climb higher.
I've never seen a 757 at that height unless it's a ferry flight. Usually get up to 39000 towards the end of a flight when the aircraft has gotten lighter.

The level achieved towards the end of the flight, when much of the fuel load has been burned off, is probably not reflective of the level for the main portion in oceanic airspace, which will have been assigned by Shanwick or Gander as part of the oceanic clearance. In their heyday, even Aer Lingus 747-100s could and did achieve FL390 or even 410 once they had burned off enough fuel. As for the 757, lightly loaded, it is well capable of climbing straight to FL410, which was a regular feature when the type was introduced by BA in the early 1980s. Ex-BFS to LHR, FL410 by the Isle of Man was not unheard of.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:30 am
by AmricanShamrok
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 38):
4X day seems like overkill though even for FR

They would probably want to see if EI will reduce frequency before they stabilise their schedule.

If true, it would be interesting to see FR at AMS. If they launched a twice-daily SNN-AMS route they would initially qualify for zero airport fees on the route under the European Hub Incentive Scheme. But without a codeshare with KL and uncertain numbers connecting passengers, I don't know if FR would risk it.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:37 am
by OA260
Dublin Airport confirmed as a European growth leader

Dublin Airport was one of the fastest-growing airports in Europe during May, handling 2.3 million passengers - 12.9pc more than it did in May 2014.

The number of passengers is over 20pc higher than in May 2013, Airports Council International (ACI) has confirmed.

Dublin also bucked a downward trend in freight traffic, with 8.5pc more freight movements in May than in during the corresponding month a year ago.

Dublin Airport has previously noted that 2015 was its busiest May ever in its 75-year history.

The capital's airport posted one of the biggest surges in passenger traffic during May among its peer group, which includes European airports that handle between 10 million and 25 million passengers a year.

The airport in that segment with the biggest growth was Istanbul at 23.1pc, followed by Athens at 22.3pc.

Dublin's growth made it the fifth-biggest gainer in that airport segment, and it was the only western European airport to feature in the top five.

http://www.independent.ie/business/d...ropean-growth-leader-31360007.html

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:28 am
by Eagleboy
Quoting irish251 (Reply 39):
As for the 757, lightly loaded, it is well capable of climbing straight to FL410, which was a regular feature when the type was introduced by BA in the early 1980s. Ex-BFS to LHR, FL410 by the Isle of Man was not unheard of.

Now thats just showing off!!

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 40):
If true, it would be interesting to see FR at AMS.

I wonder how they would deal with that 30 min taxi out to the Polderdam runway......do it in 20?

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:36 am
by AmricanShamrok
I see EI-LBT, the 752 operating the AG102/AG103 (DUB-JFK) rotation positioned back to SNN and the SNN-based 752, EI-LBR was moved to DUB in its place. Why does EI do this? Both aircraft are operating on the JFK route so there wouldn't be much of a difference in flight hours one would imagine.

Both positioning flights were DUB-SNN and vice versa i.e. not switched at the outstation.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:38 am
by OA260
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 42):
I wonder how they would deal with that 30 min taxi out to the Polderdam runway......do it in 20?

You will be made to walk it  

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:38 am
by aerdingus
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 42):
I wonder how they would deal with that 30 min taxi out to the Polderdam runway......do it in 20?

Sounds about the same as when taxiing around MAD. We used to joke that the taxi took longer than the cruise from GRO.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:29 pm
by tonystan
Quoting classiclover (Reply 22):

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 20):
My mate is currently running at a rolling block hours of 890-895. Legal maximum per year is 900.

Nothing wrong with that. I know BA crew who have run out of hours and had to not work for a few weeks. Human assets should be used to their maximum, they are in any other job so flying shouldn't be any different.


It's not good for scheduling and manpower planning.

Until recently I always found my hours exceeding 900 at roughly the exact same time every year.....summer peak! Resulting in myself being removed from the schedule and sitting at home for up to 2 weeks. Although I lost allowances I was still being paid. At the same time BA where crying out for overtime, standbys where being used to cover people like myself who found themselves in similar situations and the natural sickness was not getting covered as a result!

So although I agree that human assets need to be used efficiently, I feel a buffer needs to be considered at around 850-860 hours throughout a rolling 12 months in order to maintain efficient operations.

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:49 pm
by AirPacific747
A350 in Dublin today


RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:56 pm
by OA260
Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 47):
A350 in Dublin today

Great to see. will look better in EI livery  

RE: Irish 12/15: High On Jet A1

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:02 pm
by AirPacific747
Quoting OA260 (Reply 48):

Indeed it will!