scotron11
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BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:56 pm

Why would BA order this aircraft? Im curious because BA have never maximized the capacity of their birds....ala EK with their 360 seats on their 777's whereby BA get by with 297. High J seats notwithstanding, that is a lot less seats.

Even their 744's have a maximum of 299.

So what would the 778 or 779 give BA in terms of capacity that they do not seem to take advantage of presently?

Im also curious to know what configuration their 35J's will have when delivered in 2018. Airbus say 350 pax....probably BA around 275 by their current aircraft.


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MrHMSH
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
Why would BA order this aircraft?

Because it's good?

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
So what would the 778

Essentially nothing. BA don't fly any route that would make use of the 778's only big advantage over the A350.

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
779 give BA in terms of capacity that they do not seem to take advantage of presently?

The 779 is the closest to a direct 747 replacement, and BA are enthusiastic 777 users.
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:05 pm

BA certainly has zero requirement for the 777-8 and I'm very doubtful they'll order the 777-9. Between the A350-1000 and 787-10, I think BA has already selected the large twins they need. They may order more of both, but I can't see the point in ordering another type.
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scotron11
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:07 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 1):
because it's good?

I have no doubt it will be
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
BA certainly has zero requirement for the 777-8 and I'm very doubtful they'll order the 777-9. Between the A350-1000 and 787-10, I think BA has already selected the large twins they need. They may order more of both, but I can't see the point in ordering another type.

It's been two years since he said it, but IAG Chairman Willie Walsh did say he felt the 777X would be a perfect fit for some of British Airway's network and he felt it would be inevitable that the type would be in BA's fleet.

I agree the 777-8 is unlikely, but I expect the 777-9 would work well to replace the "high-J" 747-400s (since it can do Club World at 8-abreast), complimenting the A350-1000s handling the "low-J" 747-400 replacement.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:31 pm

unless BA wants to fly to Australia, there's virtually no where in their route network that can really use the 778 at all

779 should be a slam dunk to bridge their 300-seaters with the 380s.

if anything, the fact that the bulk of BA's "long-haul" network is really mid-haul out to eastern North America, the 787-10 will do a very fine job for BA already
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
It's been two years since he said it, but IAG Chairman Willie Walsh did say he felt the 777X would be a perfect fit for some of British Airway's network

Yes, he said that shortly before ordering A350-1000s.

Personally, I don't see a need at BA for A350-1000s AND 777-9s.
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Bongodog1964
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
if anything, the fact that the bulk of BA's "long-haul" network is really mid-haul out to eastern North America, the 787-10 will do a very fine job for BA already

Whilst the Eastern part of North America is the most significant part of the BA long haul network, it is by no means the bulk of it, its probably no more than 20%
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:05 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
It's been two years since he said it, but IAG Chairman Willie Walsh did say he felt the 777X would be a perfect fit for some of British Airway's network and he felt it would be inevitable that the type would be in BA's fleet.

**Almost** inevitable:

Quoting Willie Walsh:

“Based on what I have seen, it is almost inevitable that it is an aircraft that we will have in our fleet at some stage,” Walsh told Aviation Week during a March 18 interview. “It looks like a perfect fit for some of what British Airways [BA] would require.”

This was back in February 2013, over 2 years ago.

Then, in February 2014, Bloomberg reported that Boeing were trying to draw an order out of British Airways for the B777X:

Quote:

Boeing Co., the world’s largest planemaker, may win an order for its new 777X wide-body jet from British Airways as the carrier looks to replace its 747 jumbos.
“We’re looking at the aircraft and we’re certainly interested,” Willie Walsh, chief executive officer of British Airways parent IAG SA, said yesterday in an interview in Dublin. Europe’s third-biggest airline has held discussions with Chicago-based Boeing about the jet, he said.
International Consolidated Airlines Group, as IAG is known in full, is in the midst of a fleet upgrade that saw British Airways introduce the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and Airbus Group NV A380 super jumbo last year. To replace some 747s, the airline topped up its Dreamliner orders in 2013 and bought Airbus’s largest twin-engine long-range jet, the A350-1000.
“We see aircraft like the A350-1000 and 777X as being natural replacement aircraft for the 747s that we have,” Walsh said. “We’ve not made any commitment.”
An order for more planes would be for jets for delivery from 2019, Walsh said, with Airbus still in the running. British Airways would need to replace about 25 747s, which has four engines that consume more fuel, he said.
The 777X “is a competitive aircraft,” said Walsh, who was among the airline CEOs most vocal in recent years in urging Boeing to commit to the aircraft as soon as possible to ensure a commercial debut by decade’s end.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...sh-airways-interest-to-replace-747

The tone seemed to have changed from a B777X order being "Almost inevitable" to it being a two horse race with the A350-1000, with the B777X "a competitive aircraft."

And then there was the Flight Global analysis earlier in June 2013 regarding Ronald Epstein's calling Boeing out for allegedly losing British Airways on the B777X to Airbus and the A350-1000 after they ordered 18 with a further 18 options:

Quote:

The anxiety of Boeing watchers seemed palpable at the company's annual shareholders meeting on 22 May when Bank of America senior equities analyst Ronald Epstein called out Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Ray Conner for "losing" British Airways with the A350-1000 order.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-by-a350-1000-with-british-386591/

I don't think we can hang on one comment made by WW over 2 years ago as a signal that IAG are bound or likely to purchase the B779, not forgetting also the internal rumblings, documented on a.net at the time, that there was unease at the "Emiratisation" of the frame into something much less ideal for IAG.

Also of note in all the interviews is the stated requirement to have the replacements coming online in 2019, which we have established the B777X cannot achieve.

The B779 is not the automatic shoe-in some seem to think it should be at BA.

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jfk777
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:19 pm

British Airways has almost no choice but to order the 777-9 unless they order more 77W Boeing would give away to them. What other plane can carry many passengers that is not an A380 ? Even LH ordered 777-9 because Airbus didn't have a plane that size. A350-1000 and 787-10 are not replacements for 744, BA needs a 747 size plane and the 777-9 is the only game in town. Even if the UK adds a third runway at LHR it will take so long BA will be ordering the replacements for the fleet replacing the 744 by the time its get built and ready for use.
 
Andy33
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 8):

I definitely agree. While the 779 would probably have proved to be an excellent replacement for the 744, by the time they become available BA will have already replaced all but about 18 744s, and already have planes on order for this final replacement.

The orders that are still awaited are for the 772A replacements, (3 surviving aircraft delivered 1995-1997), and then the 772-ERs (43 surviving aircraft delivered 1997-2009) Since BA believe in getting a full lifetime out of each plane I can't see planes being ordered for delivery much before 2027, while the 772As would logically be dealt with by add-ons to 787 or A350 family fleets.
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
unless they order more 77W

And yet...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
A350-1000 and 787-10 are not replacements for 744

The A350 is almost exactly the same size as the 777, in BA's configuration, the difference will be minimal, 9ab economy for a start. It also ignores the fact that airlines have replaced their 747s with A351s, BA and UA. The 781 could replace the 744 on LHR-JFK, it would offer more frequency, which on that route is gold.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
BA needs a 747 size plane and the 777-9 is the only game in town.

I remember when BA ordered the A380, it was said at the time to be in line to replace the 20 oldest 747s. With that assumption, 12 77Ws, 18 A351s and 12 781s is a similar number to the remaining 40 odd 747s of the 60 odd total BA have operated. It's worth noting that BA heavily considered the 748, Leeham news reckons that it was engine choice that was a telling factor.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ls-747-400-retirement-plan-385021/

Now things may have changed, but even if it's not all, that's a significant amount of 747s replaced, so it won't be a case of ordering 40 779s to replace 40 747s.

But BA might not be looking for a direct replacement, the A380 is a clear upsize, and the A350 a clear downsize, but maybe there's a reason they haven't ordered the 779. They've clearly been looking at it for over a year now, maybe they just fancy the better flexibility of the 787 and A350.
 
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:49 pm

I suspect if the extra LHR runway comes to fruition, the likelihood, unfortunately, of a 777X order is decreased. That is, BA likely will opt for greater frequency on a 787/A350 size aircraft instead.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:59 pm

It is just as likely that they will supplement their A3510s with the mooted A3511, should Airbus offer it.
 
MD88CLE
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
British Airways has almost no choice but to order the 777-9 unless they order more 77W Boeing would give away to them. What other plane can carry many passengers that is not an A380 ? Even LH ordered 777-9 because Airbus didn't have a plane that size. A350-1000 and 787-10 are not replacements for 744, BA needs a 747 size plane and the 777-9 is the only game in town. Even if the UK adds a third runway at LHR it will take so long BA will be ordering the replacements for the fleet replacing the 744 by the time its get built and ready for use.

I have to agree with MrMHSH and others here: BA does not necessarily need the 777-9. While I don't see it as being a case of "BA will NOT order the 777-9," there's nothing to say that the A380, A35J, and 78J together can't cover BA's needs.

When the 747-400 first came on the scene it was the only game in town to some extent, with the A340-300 being later and considerably smaller, the 777-200 and A330 being later, smaller, and lacking range at first, and the MD-11 being the MD-11. The 777-300ER didn't come along until 2004, of course.

BA now has the option of using the A380 where capacity is critical, the A35J where they need the range/payload but not such high capacity, and the 78J where the greater capability of the A350 isn't needed. Options that were not really available at the 744 EIS with contemporary equivalents.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I expect the 777-9 would work well to replace the "high-J" 747-400s (since it can do Club World at 8-abreast), complimenting the A350-1000s handling the "low-J" 747-400 replacement.

  

I think they can use some aircraft with more floor space than an A350-1000 precisely because they are so premium-heavy. Could they get by with only A350-1000s? Sure. But could they derive extra revenue from the extra space in the 777-9? I think so.

As many others have said they have zero need for the 777-8. Anything it can do for them an A350-1000 can do better.
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:03 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
British Airways has almost no choice but to order the 777-9 unless they order more 77W Boeing would give away to them.

They clearly do have a choice.   

BA has shown that aside from buying a few A380s for their heaviest routes, the 747 fleet is being replaced by smaller planes (A350-1000s, 787-9s & -10s). They are not the only airline doing this.

Given their route network, the planes (and options) they have on order, I'm simply not seeing any need for the 777-9. A long-term fleet of 787-8/9/10 and A350-1000s gives them great flexibility and they have the A380 at the top end where required.
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Sooner787
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 16):
Given their route network, the planes (and options) they have on order, I'm simply not seeing any need for the 777-9. A long-term fleet of 787-8/9/10 and A350-1000s gives them great flexibility and they have the A380 at the top end where require

Agreed , plus they'll get their hands on the A35J's alot sooner than any 779 they ordered
 
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
It's been two years since he said it, but IAG Chairman Willie Walsh did say he felt the 777X would be a perfect fit for some of British Airway's network

Yes, he said that shortly before ordering A350-1000s.

I did wonder about the timing of the order. There was no authority to offer for the 777X at that time, and I have a gut feeling John Leahy saw a tactical opportunity to knock out the 777X from BA's 747 replacement considerations with an offer BA couldn't refuse. I recall BA saying they had concluded the 747 replacement with their order for 18 787s and 18 A350s. Later however, there were reports these plans had changed and BA still needed replacement aircraft for their final 25 747s.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Personally, I don't see a need at BA for A350-1000s AND 777-9s.

Well, the number of wide body types would quite high, wouldn't it? It used to be nice and clean with just Boeings 763s 772s and 744s. They will have 787s (-8, -9, -10), 777s (200 and 300ER), A350-1000 and A380. And they apparently will fly the 744s for some time to come as well. And with no replacements for the 777s in sight yet, BA might as well order 777-9s too. If they do need to replace 25 744s still, and also the 77W which are mostly leased, we might even see a fleet of 30-40 777-9s, enough to warrant another wide body type with BA.

All hypothetical of course. I agree BA can do without the 777-9, they don't necessarily need to fill the gap between A350-1000 and A380, they managed very well with a gap between 772 and 744. But, I don't rule out the 777-9 for BA either.
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
A350-1000 and 787-10 are not replacements for 744

UA sure seems to think the A35J is....
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 19):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):A350-1000 and 787-10 are not replacements for 744
UA sure seems to think the A35J is....

United just ordered 10 77W "to replace their 10 oldest 744", the 35 A350-1000 they have also ordered will replace some 744 and 777-200ER, which at UA are among the oldest. For UA its NOT a straight A350-1000 for 744 replacement.
 
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TedToToe
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I agree the 777-8 is unlikely, but I expect the 777-9 would work well to replace the "high-J" 747-400s (since it can do Club World at 8-abreast), complimenting the A350-1000s handling the "low-J" 747-400 replacement.

I don't see the High-J 744 replacement quite like that. Look at the routes that they are used on and JFK is significant; meaning that a High-J 78J is almost a given. After JFK, you will see other Eastern U.S. cities like BOS, together Middle Eastern destinations like DXB or RUH, all well within the 78J's range. As for longer routes, SIN, LAX, SFO etc. (save for SYD flights) will be all A380. So, that leaves a few longer High-J routes like MEX and GRU that see them regularly but don't warrant an A380. Here, BA has a couple of options: a subfleet of High-J A35J's, or convert the (owned) 77W's into High-J configuration. I think the latter could be the more likely option as it reduces the number of subfleets. Strangely, it could also leave the door open to a 779 order in the future, should the A350-1100 not materialise!
 
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seabosdca
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting TedToToe (Reply 21):
Look at the routes that they are used on and JFK is significant; meaning that a High-J 78J is almost a given.

Don't forget that JFK is slot-controlled. Downgauging from 744s in that enormous market, especially on the peak flights, will be a pure loss of revenue. JFK may be the single destination that presents the most compelling case for the 777-9, which is the 744's equal in terms of floor space and (unlike the A380) doesn't require wider gate spacing.

[Edited 2015-07-07 12:38:15]
 
jetblue1965
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:48 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):

United just ordered 10 77W "to replace their 10 oldest 744", the 35 A350-1000 they have also ordered will replace some 744 and 777-200ER, which at UA are among the oldest. For UA its NOT a straight A350-1000 for 744 replacement.

Look back at history. The original game plan called for A350-1000 directly replacing 744s, and based on the numbers on order, virtually 1:1 replacement. It was only due to recent events such as poor 744 reliability and Boeing's need to bridge 77W production gap that UA agreed to buy 10x77Ws.

So in that sense, yes the 35J can be an effective 744 replacement, even at slight reduction of capacity (mostly at the expense of Y cabin)

DL is even more extreme. They have nothing larger than a 359 on order, so in their mind, it's actually the 359 replacing the 744s.
 
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TedToToe
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):

Don't forget that JFK is slot-controlled. Downgauging from 744s in that enormous market, especially on the peak flights, will be a pure loss of revenue. JFK may be the single destination that presents the most compelling case for the 777-9, which is the 744's equal in terms of floor space and (unlike the A380) doesn't require wider gate spacing.

I take your point about JFK being slot controlled, however, I do not see floor space as the be all and end all, especially where BA is concerned. They show no sign of going 10 abreast in their 77E's or 77W's, plus shortly we will see their new First product which will likely be optimised for 787/A350 cabin diameters.
 
StTim
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:09 pm

I for one am not sure the 777X as it is now is a good fit for BA. They don't have many ultra long haul routes. Most of the 747's fly transatlantic. That is in reality not what the 777X is designed to do.

The longest sectors I have done with BA are LHR to Hong Kong, Singapore and Shanghai. None of these are in need of ultra long haul products.
 
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:11 pm

BA will probably never order the 777-8, but I am still convinced that the -9 would be a great addition. BA loves the 777. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't order the -9, therefore, remain convinced they will in the near/mid-term.

When the A350-1000s and 787s are all there, they'll probably have 20 some odd 747s left, and I imagine some of those will be 777-9s.

787-8
787-9
787-10
777-200ER
A350-1000
777-300ER
777-9
A380-800

I see absolutely no problem with that fleet. I imagine the 77Es will eventually be replaced by more 787s or A350s, but to say the 777-9 wouldn't work for BA is silly at best.
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StTim
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:20 pm

I didn't say they wouldn't work - I just don't see them as a shoe in. If long term the other 777's will be replaced by 787/350 product that would leave BA with a small 777X sub fleet. Like many argue the 380 suvb fleet is too small it does have a significant USP. I just don't see that for the 777X.

The 777X is a great ME3 product for the rest however the jury is still largely out.

Time will tell. Either way could easilly be right.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 27):
The 777X is a great ME3 product for the rest however the jury is still largely out.

What?  

The 777X isn't an ME3 product. It never was an ME3 product. When you have airlines like LH, CX, NH, and dozens more in the not so distant future ordering them, it says a lot. Sure, EK had a huge roll to play in its development, no doubt, but to build a plane to the specs of one or a few carriers is foolish.

As I recall correctly, LH was the first to bite onto the 777X before anyone else.

Quoting StTim (Reply 27):
If long term the other 777's will be replaced by 787/350 product that would leave BA with a small 777X sub fleet.

Which I don't see happening anytime soon. As stated, the -200ERs would probably go first, but the -300ERs are still quite new, and provide excellent economics. I think you don't give the 777 due credit. The -9 will most likely be hugely efficient despite its weight compared to the A350-1000, and that's on top of the fact it carries more in terms of passengers and payload.

I could also say that the A350-1000s will be a small subfleet, and that they're not needed as a result, but that aircraft is too good to pass up for many carriers. I'm quite surprised that its sales have stalled.
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StTim
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:04 pm

Yeah but LH also bought the lemon that is the 747-8. Don't get me wrong the 747-400 is my favourite ride but the 8 is a failure as a passenger plane.

There may be

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 28):
and dozens more in the not so distant future ordering them,

But there is currently no proof yet.

The 777X is slated to be enourmously capable but up to 14 hours or so there are lots of other options and I see it as a niche product.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 28):
I think you don't give the 777 due credit

You cannot be more wrong. The 777 in it latest form is a corner stone of the success of BA. Personally I don't like it much to ride on - too noisy for me, as I said above give me the 747 any day - but it was undoubtedly a fantasitic plane for the airlines.


That is not however to say that the 777X will be the same.

I am open to both views - you don't seem to be able to see anything other than continued 777 dominance.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 18):
I did wonder about the timing of the order. There was no authority to offer for the 777X at that time

Then again, everyone including BA knew the 777X was coming. So they could have waited.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 28):
I could also say that the A350-1000s will be a small subfleet

18 wide body jets is not what I would call a small subfleet. And IAG holds 18 additional A350-1000 options.
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frostyj
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:12 pm

I think its probably to fly to longer destinations and possibly replace the 747.
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StTim
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 31):
I think its probably to fly to longer destinations and possibly replace the 747.

For BA which are those longer destinations. I am not sure they currently fly any over the 14 hours mark.

The 747's are largely being replaced by 380's where they need capacity and 787/350 where they don't quite need the capacity but need a healthy cost reduction.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:21 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 29):
Yeah but LH also bought the lemon that is the 747-8.
Quoting StTim (Reply 29):
But there is currently no proof yet
Quoting StTim (Reply 29):
That is not however to say that the 777X will be the same.

I am open to both views - you don't seem to be able to see anything other than continued 777 dominance.

I'm sorry. All I can say is this:

Are you kidding me? The 747-8 is a lemon? There's no proof that more will order the 777X? I'm stating the economics of the 777, and somehow I can't "see anything but 777 dominance."

Fanboyism is not just for Boeing fans. Just a friendly reminder.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 30):
18 wide body jets is not what I would call a small subfleet. And IAG holds 18 additional A350-1000 options.

I was just making a point with that statement.
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 33):
I was just making trying to make a point with that statement.

Fixed that for you!  
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 34):

Sorry. Mobile typing isn't my forte. Cheers  
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:29 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 33):
The 747-8 is a lemon?

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, it does what they made it to do... but not proficiently enough for much of anyone to want one, and with the 779 available, that's not likely to change.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 33):


Are you kidding me? The 747-8 is a lemon? There's no proof that more will order the 777X? I'm stating the economics of the 777, and somehow I can't "see anything but 777 dominance."

Fanboyism is not just for Boeing fans. Just a friendly reminder.

The 747-8i has excellent economics. Its performance doesn't make it a lemon, but its sales history does. I personally love the 747 (nose+UD), but very few airlines share the same vision.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 36):
I mean, it does what they made it to do... but not proficiently enough for much of anyone to want one, and with the 779 available, that's not likely to change

There's no denying that, but the 747-8 has found homes at airlines who use them effectively. The statement about it is laughable.

And why bring up the 748? I didn't bring it up.
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StTim
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:42 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 33):
Fanboyism is not just for Boeing fans.

I have studiously not been a fanboy of either major frame maker because I am not.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 33):
Just a friendly reminder.

????
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 38):
but the 747-8 has found homes at airlines who use them effectively

Just to be clear, StTim was talking about the 747-8i, i.e. the passenger model. At the moment only two airlines have the 747-8i in service.
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:52 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 39):
I have studiously not been a fanboy of either major frame maker because I am not.

And neither am I. I'd also like to know where I said I want 777 dominance? I'd never make such a statement, but I'd like hear your side of it.
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 33):
Just a friendly reminder.
Quoting StTim (Reply 39):
????

It's like talking bad about the DL 767-400: you can be sued for that kind of language   
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 38):
The statement about it is laughable.

Meh, the only thing laughable about the 748i is that it's still on offer:

It's been for sale for 10yrs now, with only 4 carriers willing to commit to it.... and I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see UN cancel/default on their order considering the state of the Russian economy right now now.

And with the 779 out now, its fate is more or less sealed.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 26):

I see absolutely no problem with that fleet. I imagine the 77Es will eventually be replaced by more 787s or A350s, but to say the 777-9 wouldn't work for BA is silly at best.

Except BA intend to have a 3 type long haul fleet.

There current orders would suggest they have decided on:

B787-8/9/10
A350-1000
A380

That's an equally modern, versatile and efficient fleet with the cost savings of one less type.


Rgds
Flying around India
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 42):
It's like talking bad about the DL 767-400: you can be sued for that kind of language

It's not that. I just don't like it when people accuse me of stating things I didn't say.

Forgive me, Mods, I'll return to topic.

------

The point I'm merely trying to convey is that I think there's some space within BA's fleet for the 777-9. Going into the 2020s, there will still be 744s active.
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Boeing778X
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 44):
There current orders would suggest they have decided on:

B787-8/9/10
A350-1000
A380

That's an equally modern, versatile and efficient fleet with the cost savings of one less type.

Too many gaps, the way I see it. Yes, that'd be very modern and efficient, just not very flexible.

For airlines like UA, like may work, but there are plenty of airlines who have more that 3 widebody types and use all of them well.
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 46):
Too many gaps

Though not every 'gap' needs to be filled.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 46):

Too many gaps, the way I see it. Yes, that'd be very modern and efficient, just not very flexible.


No less flexible than a fleet of B763, B772 and B744, which BA coped with for nearly 20 years, profitably.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 46):


For airlines like UA, like may work, but there are plenty of airlines who have more that 3 widebody types and use all of them well.

Perhaps, but you are ignoring BA's stated intention to go with a 3-type long haul fleet. It is a proven formula and they clearly wish to continue with it.

Rgds

[Edited 2015-07-07 15:28:15]
Flying around India
 
tortugamon
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RE: BA And The 778 Or 779

Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:51 pm

I believe that the 779 in BA configuration would be substantially larger than the A351 which could be appealing to BA if they have routes where they are confident they will fill a 744 but don't need the A380. As the 747 fleet is so large I do think there are routes where this will apply.

I believe that BA would go 10-abreast in Y as it seems every carrier will. Plus at 8-abreast in business that could offer some serious revenue opportunity advantages over the A351. They have a very large 777 fleet and I just don't see them sitting this round out.

Some here have been focused on 747 replacement and I agree that is the core of the market but I do think some of BA's A351s and 781s may come in as 747 replacements but then be used to upgrade 77E routes when that replacement happens right around the corner and then there will be opportunity to upgrade 77W/A351/781 routes up to the 779 if BA experiences growth.

Nothing is a sure thing and they definitely could make due without but I do see BA buying at least a small fleet.

tortugamon

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