Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:30 am

Which 733 have been scrapped since leaving service with NZ? must of been an couple now?
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:57 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
It's not a new frame for the database anyway. We have already photographed it in a better scheme, so it can wait until it comes back from SYD

Haha too true. Just watched it fly overhead.. 05R is not conducive to good night photography..
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4751
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:31 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
All two of them??

Yup, lol.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
haha or did you complete along missing gap?

Unfortunately I've missed lots of the ones that have been already retired, so I've only flown all of the current fleet....not nearly as impressive. I managed to get all the ZK-SJ*s though, so thats something. Still, I'm very pleased about getting both NGI and NGJ. Was worried that I might keep getting the same plane (seems to happen with the 787s lol). I intentionally booked an extra 737 sector next month, just in case that were to happen. I'll be able to relax now, knowing that it won't matter so much if the aircraft goes tech.  

And of course I'm on the final 737 service on September 6th (unless the last flight has been changed).

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
It's not a new frame for the database anyway. We have already photographed it in a better scheme, so it can wait until it comes back from SYD.

Yeah, exactly. Also on the spotting front, I have to say that it's a bit depressing when you can spend a couple of hours spotting and only see a single NZ 737 arrival. I used to take them all for granted.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
Domestic A320 fleet just 5 to go.G,H,I,J,K.

If you make the distinction within the domestic A320 fleet between Sharklet and the 2011 deliveries, then I guess that's a second fleet that I've completed. Still a few A320s (both domestic and international) to go before I can claim to have flown the whole narrowbody fleet.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
I just hope I don't get OJQ for the 14th time before I get them too.

Hey, its a nice plane!  
Quoting Andrensn (Reply 146):
With regards to the 733 fleet why wasn't there a ZK-NGQ because the fleet goes O,P - R and misses Q.

With the 737-300 fleet, I think you have to appreciate that only a few of them were newbuilds for Air New Zealand. The remainder entered the fleet second hand from multiple other carriers. Because of this there was a very wide variety of different specs (others can elaborate on this, I probably shouldn't, but a good example of this was that not all 737s had the appropriate spec to fly into Queenstown) and this resulted in some peculiar registration sequences. I presume that there was an aircraft that the airline planned to acquire and register ZK-NGQ, but which wasn't taken up.

Its nice that all the Airbuses were bought new.  
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 145):
I believe SJE was close to carrying that rego, but she ended up with Freedom Air.

Ah, airport-data got that wrong then. It is listed as NGL, and

Also Registered As:
XA-VIT Registered
PH-TSZ De-registered Delivery: 1995-05-17
ZK-SJE Registered Delivery: 2001-10-10

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 148):
ZK-NGN was never delivered to Air NZ - Cancelled.

Not quite true: I took photos of it: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/001046444.html

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 140):
Domestic A320 fleet just 5 to go.G,H,I,J,K.

I have A, B, C, D, F, G, H, I, J, R so far.... and only XC, XE, XH

Cheers
micha
 
User avatar
SXI899
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:02 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:27 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 150):
Which 733 have been scrapped since leaving service with NZ? must of been an couple now?
Not many. Only NGF and NGK were scrapped after being retired by ANZ, and of the aircraft that made it to other operators, only FDM has since been scrapped.

Quick overview:



Quoting Andrensn (Reply 146):
With regards to the 733 fleet why wasn't there a ZK-NGQ because the fleet goes O,P - R and misses Q.
It's possible that the NGQ was skipped to avoid confusion with NGO. I've seen that done at other operators.
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:36 am

Quoting SXI899 (Reply 154):
It's possible that the NGQ was skipped to avoid confusion with NGO. I've seen that done at other operators.

But to think that they have NEO/NEQ, OJO/OJQ and OKO/OKQ, it doesn't seem like a reason or else they would have skipped them too, to be consistent.
 
PA515
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 147):
MCW is in maintenance at NSN.

MCC has just completed it's scheduled repaint at CHC.

NEM is in maintenance at NSN

Thanks.

MCU now out of action at CHC, guessing that's a repaint too.

PA515
 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 131):
and heading into service on 29th..??

Do you know on which sector? Perhaps to SYD if previous first flight for the type is any guidance.?
 
HLZCPH
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:35 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 156):
MCU now out of action at CHC, guessing that's a repaint too.

PA515

I can tell you a story about MCU. On Wednesday afternoon our flight back to HLZ from CHC (NZ5308) ended up becoming cancelled. We boarded after the aircraft arrived late from DUD ("because of late arrival of other aircraft"). Captain said there was a "minor problem" with the brake on the starboard wheels that the engineers were checking. After a while we were disembarked and once back in the lounge, the flight was cancelled, our baggage unloaded and she was towed away.

The three of us got rebooked eventually (on the same flights!) to WEL (OXB) then onto HLZ (MCX) arriving 4hrs later than planned. All good fun!
 
Jetstar315
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:04 am

Re: ZK-NGN - sorry guys - you're absolutely right - don't know what I was thinking about!! It's called a 'senior moment'.
Here's ZK-NGN's history:

1998 Built by The Boeing Company, Renton, WA, USA.
Line number 3012.
13 Mar 98 First flight using a Boeing allocated test registration.
30 Mar 98 Handed over to Pembroke Capital, Dublin, Ireland as owners.
30 Mar 98 Leased to Sobelair, Brussels, Belgium.
30 Mar 98 Entered onto the Belgian Aircraft Register as OO-SLK.
Registered to Sobelair, Brussels, Belgium.
24 Jan 01 Withdrawn from use by Sobelair and returned to Pembroke Capital.
Leased to Air New Zealand.
28 Mar 01 Arrived Christchurch, NZ on delivery flight from Brussels in full
Sobelair livery and registered OO-SLK.
05 Apr 01 Cancelled from the Belgian Aircraft Register.
05 Apr 01 Entered onto the New Zealand Aircraft Register as ZK-NGN.
Registered to Air New Zealand Limited, Auckland, New Zealand.
Not named with Air New Zealand.
Entered service with Air New Zealand on domestic operations.
27 Jan 06 Withdrawn from use by Air New Zealand and stored at Christchurch.
Underwent planned maintenance and prepared for onward lease to
Norwegian Air Shuttle, including painting of the aircraft into full Norwegian livery.
24 Mar 06 Test flown at Christchurch after maintenance and painting.
30 Mar 06 Departed Christchurch for Brussels via Apia, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Denver
and Halifax, Nova Scotia.
06 Apr 06 Cancelled from the New Zealand Aircraft Register.
06 Apr 06 Entered onto the Norwegian Aircraft Register as LN-KKX.
Registered to Norwegian Air Shuttle, Oslo-Fornebu Airport, Norway.
Apr 07-Oct 08 Painted in ‘Network Norway’ colour scheme.
Jul 07 Fitted with winglets.
02 Jul 10 Sub-leased as LN-KKX to Jet Time, Copenhagen, Denmark, for 6 months.
22 Aug 10 Withdrawn from use by Jet Time and returned to Norwegian Air Shuttle.
04 Nov 14 Ferried Oslo-Lasham, England for Winter storage.
 
Andrensn
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:09 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:45 am

I was in AKL domestic recently in the regional section and noticed they had removed the little window towards the tarmac near the regional arrivals belt which means there are now no airside windows anywhere in the regional departure section. Following this I walked the length of the domestic terminal to see if there where any airside windows at all and found none whatsoever. This means the only airside windows in the entire domestic terminal are past security for jet departures. Seems sad that you can go to an airport to get on a flight yet can't see ANY planes until boarding  
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 160):
Seems sad that you can go to an airport to get on a flight yet can't see ANY planes until boarding

Top floor of the parking lot.. that's basically it. Having said that you don't need a boarding card to clear screening...
Also I haven't been to the regional gold lounge yet, I suspect no views there either but I can't confirm.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 157):
Do you know on which sector? Perhaps to SYD if previous first flight for the type is any guidance.?

It was NZ103 when last I checked.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10143
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:05 am

Are NGB, NGC and NGH still active with Canadian North/Air Nauru, or does that list need a bit of updating?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:17 am

[quote=aerorobnz,reply=161
Also I haven't been to the regional gold lounge yet, I suspect no views there either but I can't confirm.
[/quote]

The regional lounge has an limited view, through the wire fence. Basically you see more cars, than planes.
 
HLZCPH
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:35 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:56 am

Oh, I read somewhere that NGG, now N303KH is to be converted to a freighter and will join the Aloha Cargo fleet in Hawaii.
 
Jetstar315
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:06 pm

ZK-NGB has been fitted with winglets and is current with Canadian North as C-GCNU, and ZK-NGC is C-GCNK also with Canadian North. ZK-NGH is with Nauru Airlines as VH-YNU, and I've heard ZK-NGG is going to Canadian North also, after conversion to a freighter by KF Aerospace (formerly Kelowna Flightcraft) of Kelowna, Canada. I haven't heard about it going to Aloha!!
 
PA515
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 164):
Oh, I read somewhere that NGG, now N303KH is to be converted to a freighter and will join the Aloha Cargo fleet in Hawaii.
Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 165):
I've heard ZK-NGG is going to Canadian North also, after conversion to a freighter by KF Aerospace (formerly Kelowna Flightcraft) of Kelowna, Canada. I haven't heard about it going to Aloha!!

N303KH (ZK-NGG) is registered to Aircraft 25606 LLC, but planespotters says Automatic LLC.

Aloha Air Cargo (IATA Code KH) have two 737-300 freighters that came via Automatic LLC. These are N301KH (L/N 2691, c/n 27904) and N302KH (L/N 2705, c/n 27905).

PA515

[Edited 2015-07-26 12:26:53]
 
PA515
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:57 pm

 
HLZCPH
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:35 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 167):

Quoting PA515 (Reply 166):

Found this:
http://hnlrarebirds.blogspot.com/2015/06/n303kh.html

PA515

Yes, that's where I saw it! And the rego sequence fits too.

I wonder what the plans are for NGI and NGJ going forward? What would a late model, well loved B733, be worth on the second hand market?
 
Jetstar315
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:46 pm

Especially ZK-NGJ - it was the last 737-300 built by Boeing and was delivered new to Air New Zealand at CHC on 19 Nov 1999. Theoretically I guess it should be the most valuable 737 classic in the world??
 
User avatar
SXI899
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:02 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:07 am

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 168):

I wonder what the plans are for NGI and NGJ going forward? What would a late model, well loved B733, be worth on the second hand market?

I know that there is at least one interested party in the NGJ. Unfortunately not allowed to disclose anything more at the moment.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8117
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:26 am

Any updates on the proposed CA PEK-AKL service thats meant to start in October. Still time for that to happen but these days longer lead in times for new services seem pretty common.

I'd imagine it being timed similar to CZ, MU probably in 1830 out 2100.
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 132):
WLG is set to break its April record of 77,000 international passengers this month by 3%

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7049...national-passenger-records-in-july

I noticed when I went to book a QF MEL-WLG-NSN flight in Jan that the red eye Jet* flight is daily over the peak summer season. Should be a year of good growth in passenger numbers for WIAL.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10143
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:50 am

BA bringing A380 flights to AKL from next May!

http://www.airlive.net/2015/07/news-british-airways-to-bring-a380.html
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:06 am

Really? I think I'll wait until I see it from a more authoritative source . . .

Quoting 777ER (Reply 173):
BA bringing A380 flights to AKL from next May!
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6889
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:38 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 173):

Link doesn't work, it would definitely be awesome though but where from?
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:44 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 173):
BA bringing A380 flights to AKL from next May!

Maybe on a one off charter (for example if there was a World Cup), but a 77W would surely be the most likely.. I have not heard anything even rumoured until today. Sorry, I'm not convinced...
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 173):

And it's not even 1 April!

Man, that would be so nice!
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:58 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 176):
(for example if there was a World Cup)

IIRC nothing came for 2011... So only a FIFA world cup would be able to do that?
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 178):
IIRC nothing came for 2011

A rugby world cup is barely even a world cup.

Yep, nothing short of a FIFA WC or Olympic event would warrant it, which of course New Zealand would never win because that involves big sums of money for investment and bribes.
 
Jetstar315
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:12 am

I'm wondering if ZK-NGJ just might end up at the Boeing Museum in Seattle??????
 
haggis73
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 173):
BA bringing A380 flights to AKL from next May!

My initial thought, if it was evenly remotely feasible for the BA A380 to AKL, was a one off for the British & Irish Lions tour, but I'm a year out, as that isn't till 2017.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1505
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:02 am

"Jetstar NZ regional flights face headwinds"

Macquarie says Jetstar regional operations here will have a big fight on its hands to make money in new analysis which dissects notoriously high fares to provincial cities.

Analysts estimate Air New Zealand's average regional fare is around $123 per ticket (excluding GST) and hence Jetstar would be looking at around $80 a ticket at the discount of around 40 per cent the low cost carrier has indicated it could bring to the regional market.

"However, with generally less business travel on the regional routes, we think the differential between Air New Zealand and Jetstar could be slightly lower, but that said, Jetstar will be pricing a new service which will require additional discounting," Macquarie said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11488059
 
Mr AirNZ
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 10:24 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 174):
Really? I think I'll wait until I see it from a more authoritative source . . .

Indeed.

BA (as Virgin found too) have found Sydney hard work and as a destination, that's always going to be a much better performing route. Issues with tying up three airframes for a daily service mean the returns have to be decent to cover the opportunity cost of not being able to work the assets on routes closer to home. We can already see the most European airlines have long decided Australasia is just too far away to be viable with finite resources available and strong completion from Asian and Middle Eastern carriers who are able to make use of their geographic advantage.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2204
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 183):
BA (as Virgin found too) have found Sydney hard work and as a destination, that's always going to be a much better performing route.

And because it's a better performing route, it's also an extremely crowded route. Whereas if BA were to put an A380 LHR-LAX-AKL, it would annihilate NZ.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 174):
Really? I think I'll wait until I see it from a more authoritative source . . .

So will I. But I don't think the idea is as fanciful as we might immediately think.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10143
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:34 am

Jetstar is making a return trip the Hawkes Bay as part of its regional expansion.

JQ has expressed interest in the airports building plans and the airport have stated they have plans in place for an additional carrier in the terminal expansion plans

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/7...r-making-return-trip-to-hawkes-bay
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8117
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 184):

Sure SYD is crowded but AKL has a few airlines competing to Europe to. In what way would BA annihilate NZ with an A380 to AKL?

As far as BA actually flying to AKL, I think its extremly unlikely but not impossible but imo an A380 wouldn't happen they are only getting 12 and tying up 3 for AKL seems silly.
 
PoleHillSid
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:10 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:31 am

Is there a handy quick ref guide to knowing which airlines operated routes under NZ flight numbers in 2013/14?

four digit numbers beginning with 2, 5 and 8 e.g. NZ2710.
 
PA515
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting PoleHillSid (Reply 187):
Is there a handy quick ref guide to knowing which airlines operated routes under NZ flight numbers in 2013/14?

four digit numbers beginning with 2, 5 and 8 e.g. NZ2710.

NZ2xxx (BEH) Eagle Air
NZ5xxx (AT7) Mount Cook Airlines
NZ8xxx (DH3) Air Nelson

PA515
 
Gasman
Posts: 2204
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 186):
In what way would BA annihilate NZ with an A380 to AKL?

It would be an A380 competing with a 77W with 10 abreast in Y. No comparison from a pax comfort point of view. Also, it would provide competition between LAX and AKL, which is currently NZs golden egg.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 186):
imo an A380 wouldn't happen they are only getting 12 and tying up 3 for AKL seems silly.

There are always more A380's where those 12 came from. And it wouldn't be tying up three just for AKL; the route would get an intermediate stop like SIN or LAX as well.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 189):
Also, it would provide competition between LAX and AKL, which is currently NZs golden egg.

IF that happens and IF American starts LAX-AKL, the route would turn into a turkey - for all three airlines.

mariner
 
Gasman
Posts: 2204
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 190):
IF that happens and IF American starts LAX-AKL, the route would turn into a turkey - for all three airlines.

Sure would. You'd have to assume that there would never be a third airline.

Look, don't get me wrong, I agree this BA rumour has come out of nowhere and based on what what we have, it would seem unlikely. But ridiculous? Far from it.
 
Mr AirNZ
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 10:24 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 189):
It would be an A380 competing with a 77W with 10 abreast in Y. No comparison from a pax comfort point of view. Also, it would provide competition between LAX and AKL, which is currently NZs golden egg.

Economy is economy is economy. It is considered by most to be an example of an undifferentiated product where the major driver for passengers is not the subtle differences between airline offerings but pricing and availability of seats. This is borne out in countless internal airline surveys and the reason the 777 and 787 have migrated towards ten and nine abreast in Y respectively.

Some savvy frequent flyers as represented on this site might alter travel patterns on here but even those people then sometimes comment how they would consider 10 abreast "if the price was right" which actually goes back to prove the point.

Very few airlines in mass targeted advertising campaigns highlight their economy product differences, it's all about the prices.
 
aerohottie
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:21 am

Virgin Australia have reported a $98.3m loss for the financial year 2014/15.
How much longer will Air NZ tolerate on-going loses at VA.
VA really look like a sick dog of a company, with never-ending loses, and in this financial year, even a reduction in load factors and reduction in Australian domestic market share.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2204
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 192):
Economy is economy is economy. It is considered by most to be an example of an undifferentiated product where the major driver for passengers is not the subtle differences between airline offerings but pricing and availability of seats.

No, I disagree.

Well - I disagree to a point. If you are comparing 9 with 10 abreast on a 777, then yes it's a hard sell to market the benefits of 9 to the traveling public. But a few billboards of a BA A380 with slogans along the lines of "the most spacious airliner all the way to Los Angeles and beyond", TV ads featuring the royal family etc......... and the traveling public will start to take notice. And we all know there is plenty of room to move on price.
 
PA515
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 193):
Virgin Australia have reported a $98.3m loss for the financial year 2014/15.

There was a quarterly summary released today but it doesn't have the information you are talking about. It reports a loss, but says their financial position has improved substantialy over the previous year. Also says 100% of Tigerair is now included.

The VAH 2015 Annual Result is due on 07 August 2015.

PA515
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4631
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:46 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 184):

And because it's a better performing route, it's also an extremely crowded route. Whereas if BA were to put an A380 LHR-LAX-AKL, it would annihilate NZ.


Have you actually flown on BA recently? Their service and product is pretty average. Sure the A380 provides an improved hard product but you still have young what they call "mixed fleet" crew who are well known to be immature. The rest of their crew are dinosaurs. So no they wouldn't annihilate NZ especially with a single frequency but they would make life interesting that is for sure. Perhaps AA does the SYD flight and BA does the AKL flight. They are OW teammates after all. Even QF could feed the route although they probably wouldn't want to go full codeshare on it (unless the Pacific isn't part of their EK deal?).
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4751
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:20 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 193):
Virgin Australia have reported a $98.3m loss for the financial year 2014/15.
How much longer will Air NZ tolerate on-going loses at VA.

As far as Air New Zealand is concerned, the losses are probably worthwhile if it means that their own TransTasman flights are profitable.

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 193):
VA really look like a sick dog of a company, with never-ending loses, and in this financial year, even a reduction in load factors and reduction in Australian domestic market share.

The loss is smaller than it was in the previous FY.

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 192):
Economy is economy is economy. It is considered by most to be an example of an undifferentiated product where the major driver for passengers is not the subtle differences between airline offerings but pricing and availability of seats. This is borne out in countless internal airline surveys and the reason the 777 and 787 have migrated towards ten and nine abreast in Y respectively.

This is the same kind of logic that told us that the 787's lower fuel consumption would bring lower fares. 3-4-3 in Y on the 77Ws hasn't resulted in low fares on the North America routes. Flights to LAX on -300ERs (NZ2 and most NZ6s) aren't cheaper than those operated by -200ERs (NZ4 and some NZ6s). 3-4-3 in Y has nothing to do with bringing passengers lower fares. When the 787-9 operates flights to LAX, I guarantee that fares won't be a cent cheaper than similar flights operated by 77Ws or 77Es, despite the aircraft's much lower CASM.

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 192):
Some savvy frequent flyers as represented on this site might alter travel patterns on here but even those people then sometimes comment how they would consider 10 abreast "if the price was right" which actually goes back to prove the point.

There's plenty of us on airliners.net who go out of our way to avoid 3-4-3 in Y. Plenty more on other frequent flyer sites such as flyertalk. It's a myth to think that frequent flyers always fly in premium classes and that, they therefore don't notice differences in comfort levels in Y.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:42 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 196):
(unless the Pacific isn't part of their EK deal?).

I didn't think it was part of the deal. Just via DXB only. In otherwords I can't buy SYD-LAX-DXB on QF/EK codeshare but I can buy SYD-DXB-LAX.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2204
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162

Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 197):
This is the same kind of logic that told us that the 787's lower fuel consumption would bring lower fares.

Did anyone outside the mainstream media actually fall for that spin?  
Quoting zkojq (Reply 197):
There's plenty of us on airliners.net who go out of our way to avoid 3-4-3 in Y.

I'm pretty happy with 3-4-3 on a A380 or 747; but on a 777 I would prefer not travel at all. Price has nothing to do with it. Even if they were giving away the seats for free, for me 3-4-3 on a 777 long haul is that disagreeable an experience that I really would rather not go at all than have to endure it. I've not traveled on a 787 in 9 abreast Y; but I had a walk through the cabin at the end of a flight from AKL-PVG, and the passengers looked almost literally suicidal.

I suspect the assertion that "passengers don't care about what they travel on; it's only price" is spurious. Passengers are susceptible to marketing. They are subject to the biases of their friends, and travel agents. All of these may be shaped by the quality of the product. Price is also a big factor but it most definitely is not the only one. So, if BA went head to head with NZ on AKL-LAX-LHR, it'd be a brave person to write of the differences between a 77W and A380 as insignificant.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos