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globalcabotage
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Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:49 pm

UA does it, AA did at one time (and to OGG as well). Can the narket support a 2nd flight? HA?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:20 am

Well, there are ten flights on five carriers CHI-CUN today: UA, AA, WN, Sun Country, and Frontier. Passengers won't suffer nine hour flight times or jet lag, either. HI has its fans - and I count myself among them - but there are lots of places Americans can go for sun and beaches.
 
delta88
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:33 am

I used to go to Hawaii quite often in my younger days. From what my parents had said and reviewing old tickets and logs my grandfather kept, it was more often cheaper and easier to fly to LAX. More often than not I would land at the same time of day in HNL that I took off from in Boston. I usually flew BOS-LAX-HNL. and exact reverse. I flew into ORD once and it really didnt save time and the cost was about the same. Flying to LAX allowed better connection times. Yes this was 10 plus years ago, but even with price changes, theres more choices and times out of LAX than ORD. Two 6-8 hour flights with a 1-3 hour layover in between is much easier to do than 1 long 9-11 hour flight and the same layover. Ive done plenty of transcontinental flying and I can say for a fact a nice rest period is much better than saving 50$ for comfort and distance.
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N1120A
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:33 am

It is simply easier and a more effective use of resources to send people to Hawaii over a west coast connecting point. The flight requires long range and higher capacity to make money. Instead of having even more of those flights, they can just put them on the many that depart SFO and LAX
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LAXintl
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:15 am

As has been discussed here many times, Hawaii is primarily a Western US thing. Large eastern markets simply don't generate the volume to Hawaii. They have many much closer options such as Caribbean and Mexican markets like Cancun or even Florida.
As Hawaii's 2014 tourism annual report shows, of all US domestic mainland visitors, 74% of them originated in 11 Western states or Alaska. California alone provided 56.2% of U.S. West arrivals.
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adamblang
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:27 am

I reject the premise of the question. With 344 nonstop seats every day plus Dallas (maybe), Denver, Houston (maybe), Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Minneapolis (soon), Oakland, Phoenix, Portland, Sacramento (maybe), San Diego, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, San Jose, and Seattle as reasonable connection points (it's a leisure market), there're no shortage of itinerary options to get between Chicago and Honolulu.

[Edited 2015-07-11 18:28:47]
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:01 am

United also flies ORD-OGG. Daily in the summer and weekly for pretty much the rest of the year. So at the moment 700 seats/day to Hawaii is not bad at all.

As you said AA flew it occasionally until recently, so maybe that makes Hawaiian look at it sometime or AA to try again, but I wouldn't say it is 'so little' all things considered.

Yes, the eastern part of the country generally prefers the accessibility of Florida/Mexico/Caribbean for vacations, and no airport east of the Mississippi has double daily service.
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dc10lover
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:39 am

With the recent 30% increase in property taxes to cover pensions does not help. Disposable income is dwindling.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:53 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
As has been discussed here many times, Hawaii is primarily a Western US thing. Large eastern markets simply don't generate the volume to Hawaii. They have many much closer options such as Caribbean and Mexican markets like Cancun or even Florida.

Can confirm as a resident of the Great Lakes Region. Not many of us go to Hawaii. Florida's far easier and far cheaper, and the Caribbean is closer, too. I myself have never had any desire to visit Hawaii, if I want a beach vacation there are much more favorable options from this part of the country.

For us cold water fans we've even got the second longest coastline in the country behind Alaska here in Michigan  
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 7):
With the recent 30% increase in property taxes to cover pensions does not help. Disposable income is dwindling.


Yeah, that's it.
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UA444
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:56 am

UA is stronger on both ends and has better equipment to make it work.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:51 am

HA should buy 77W for all the pax and freight from ORD
 
rugger
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:32 am

I think that from ORD-Hawaii is a very mature vacation destination. Lots of people go there once or twice within their lives and that's it. I think it's due to cost and jet lag reasons. Once you've visited, then it's on to other destinations that are more reasonably priced. Another case of been there, done that.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:45 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

Your stats are great and certainly true, more people visit Hawaii from the US West than anywhere else. But what also should be said, is that the US East visitors out number the JAPANESE! And yet, nobody suggests that going from Japan to Hawaii is a waste of time when there are closer beach destinations.

The reason for limited ORD-HNL flights is NOT because people from the midwest and east don't want to go to Hawaii. Because, they obviously do. They just get there form a plethora of connecting opportunities, through various gateways. The people willing to pay the premium for those long haul nonstops like ORD-HNL are less than those who connect over the other gateways, for often cheaper prices. ORD-HNL is obviously a UA market because UA has the local market loyalty as well as great feed to its hub. AA has obviously found it more viable to connect their ORD customers over their other hubs. And as for Hawaiian, it very likely wouldn't be able to compete for the remaining passengers who would be willing to pay for a nonstop premium, especially with no feed to an ORD-HNL flight. This is the same reason why you don't see HAL in other large fortress hubs like DFW, IAH, ATL and DEN, for examples.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:55 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
HA should buy 77W for all the pax and freight from ORD

No.. they shouldn't... Adding 450 seats/day to that market without much feed... no
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b747400erf
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 14):

No.. they shouldn't... Adding 450 seats/day to that market without much feed... no

It is sarcasm, I tried to add another "expert" opinion on how Hawaii is so under-served according to a.net topics created every day!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Hawaii is primarily a Western US thing. Large eastern markets simply don't generate the volume to Hawaii. They have many much closer options such as Caribbean and Mexican markets like Cancun or even Florida.

  

This. Generally speaking, West coasters go to Cabo or Hawaii. Midwesterners go to Cancun. East coasters go to Cancun, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.
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Freshside3
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:41 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10):
UA is stronger on both ends and has better equipment to make it work.

In a general sense. Except for the fact there had been 737s on some of the flights, which had been weight-restricted, people left off, and got a lot of negative press coverage(particularly when the WWII veteran was bumped)

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 13):
And as for Hawaiian, it very likely wouldn't be able to compete for the remaining passengers who would be willing to pay for a nonstop premium, especially with no feed to an ORD-HNL flight. This is the same reason why you don't see HAL in other large fortress hubs like DFW, IAH, ATL and DEN, for examples.

Except that they do code-share with both AA and UA on some of their inter-island routes, which may figure into the equation.

Quoting Rugger (Reply 12):
I think that from ORD-Hawaii is a very mature vacation destination. Lots of people go there once or twice within their lives and that's it. I think it's due to cost and jet lag reasons. Once you've visited, then it's on to other destinations that are more reasonably priced. Another case of been there, done that.

You are right on this one. Hawaii is a great place, but does not have the "depth" of things to do, for most to warrant a repeat visit. Thailand, the Philippines, Greece, and Mexico---to name a few other prominent so-called leisure/beach markets----have a lot more things to do.

[Edited 2015-07-12 04:34:58]
 
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cathay747
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:18 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 13):

               !!! bingo.

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):
Hawaii is a great place, but does not have the "depth" of things to do, for most to warrant a repeat visit. Thailand, the Philippines, Greece, and Mexico---to name a few other prominent so-called leisure/beach markets----have a lot more things to do.

Uhhh....have you ever been to Hawaii? There are a couple of things you can
do in Hawaii that you can't do at any other beach destination. And plenty of
other things on top of those...so there is plenty of "depth", including culture
if that's what you're alluding to.
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jacobin777
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:10 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):
You are right on this one. Hawaii is a great place, but does not have the "depth" of things to do, for most to warrant a repeat visit. Thailand, the Philippines, Greece, and Mexico---to name a few other prominent so-called leisure/beach markets----have a lot more things to do.

Most American's don't have a passport and won't get one just to go to the aforementioned places.
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cathay747
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
Most American's don't have a passport and won't get one just to go to the aforementioned places.

good additional point!
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Why is there so little from ORD-HNL? No sir, there is plenty of capacity in that market.
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adamblang
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
Most American's don't have a passport and won't get one just to go to the aforementioned places.

Flip side of that – there're a surprising number of ignorant Americans that don't know Hawaii is a state and ask Hawaii residents about whether a passport is needed, what their nationality is, and other "Hawaii's surely another country" nonsense. If people think they need a passport to go to Hawaii, it's the same barrier (perceived instead of actual) for going there as any actual foreign country has.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 20):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
Most American's don't have a passport and won't get one just to go to the aforementioned places.

good additional point!

Thanks.. 
Quoting adamblang (Reply 22):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
Most American's don't have a passport and won't get one just to go to the aforementioned places.

Flip side of that – there're a surprising number of ignorant Americans that don't know Hawaii is a state and ask Hawaii residents about whether a passport is needed, what their nationality is, and other "Hawaii's surely another country" nonsense. If people think they need a passport to go to Hawaii, it's the same barrier (perceived instead of actual) for going there as any actual foreign country has.

Hmmm...AFAIK, most people do know as Hawaii as a state of the United States. In fact, I can't ever recall even once in my life where I've met/talked to someone from the United States who doesn't know about Hawaii.

Bottom line is there is really not a large market from ORD to Hawaii. East coast to Hawaii is a small market (relatively speaking) and that can be done via connections to the west coast, etc.
"Up the Irons!"
 
Eirules
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:24 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):

Slightly off topic but clearly nobody wants to be dumped. Age aside, should it make a difference if a WWII vet is bumped versus another say 90 year old? Just wondering about people's views
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B4REAL
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:56 pm

I feel that we may see ATL-HNL have the same effect as ORD-HNL, eventually. DL ties up a 747-400 or an A330, and they could send those birds to Europe, South America or Asia. HNL must be making money for them, not sure if they have a good cargo operation, but they could do that from SEA/LAX/SFO/SLC as well...
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jaybird
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:35 pm

Hawaii isn't just Honolulu any more .. it's Lihue, Honolulu, Kahului, Kona, Hilo .. a lot of cities have direct/nonstop service to the neighbor islands. You don't need to fly anywhere in the US to Honolulu and then connect to one of the neighbor islands. You can fly directly to the neighbor islands.
 
steex
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 25):
I feel that we may see ATL-HNL have the same effect as ORD-HNL, eventually. DL ties up a 747-400 or an A330, and they could send those birds to Europe, South America or Asia. HNL must be making money for them, not sure if they have a good cargo operation, but they could do that from SEA/LAX/SFO/SLC as well...

I think we'll always see each of the majors maintain at least one HNL service from the Central or Eastern Time Zone, though. There are too many markets with abundant service to those hubs in the eastern half of the country which have very little, if any, service to the western half.

With DL specifically, a lot of markets have lots of ATL frequency and maybe even decent MSP/DTW service, but entirely lack flights to LAX/SLC/SEA. If DL cut ATL-HNL, they would be very much at risk of losing pax in those markets to other carriers to fly XYZ-ORD-HNL or XYZ-DFW-HNL instead of XYZ-ATL-LAX-HNL.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:02 pm

Quoting jaybird (Reply 26):

Hawaii isn't just Honolulu any more .. it's Lihue, Honolulu, Kahului, Kona, Hilo .. a lot of cities have direct/nonstop service to the neighbor islands. You don't need to fly anywhere in the US to Honolulu and then connect to one of the neighbor islands. You can fly directly to the neighbor islands.

Great, great, great point here. AA/UA/DL/AS serve all 4 islands very well these days, and they can keep you on their metal doing so, rather than putting you on Hawaiian at HNL. And as I said, UA is very involved in ORD-OGG, offering a daily 777 in summer.

[Edited 2015-07-12 16:05:44]
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csturdiv
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 18):
Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):
Hawaii is a great place, but does not have the "depth" of things to do, for most to warrant a repeat visit. Thailand, the Philippines, Greece, and Mexico---to name a few other prominent so-called leisure/beach markets----have a lot more things to do.

Uhhh....have you ever been to Hawaii? There are a couple of things you can
do in Hawaii that you can't do at any other beach destination. And plenty of
other things on top of those...so there is plenty of "depth", including culture
if that's what you're alluding to.

Exactly, I was on Oahu at the end of June into early July and didn't have enough time to see everything that I wanted to see. Oahu is not a one trip island, I will be going back again in the future to try to get the other things in that I wanted to do on Oahu. And that was just one island, there are other islands to see. And this is coming from someone who flew SYD-HNL, I'd do it again...maybe not on JQ again though.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
N1120A
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:34 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10):
UA is stronger on both ends and has better equipment to make it work.

Not exponentially. AA's 763s could work in the market, but they have other fish to fry.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):

HA should buy 77W for all the pax and freight from ORD

No they shouldn't.

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):
You are right on this one. Hawaii is a great place, but does not have the "depth" of things to do, for most to warrant a repeat visit. Thailand, the Philippines, Greece, and Mexico---to name a few other prominent so-called leisure/beach markets----have a lot more things to do.

My wife and I travel to Hawaii at least twice a year. Once every year to KOA at Easter and then at least one other island some other time during the year. We also happen to go to Greece every year, so not exclusive.

Quoting jaybird (Reply 26):
Hawaii isn't just Honolulu any more .. it's Lihue, Honolulu, Kahului, Kona, Hilo .. a lot of cities have direct/nonstop service to the neighbor islands. You don't need to fly anywhere in the US to Honolulu and then connect to one of the neighbor islands. You can fly directly to the neighbor islands.

ITO is a blip.

KOA is even more regional than HNL and OGG are. I'd imagine that 75% of KOA's traffic comes from the QLA and QSF areas. LIH is probably even MORE regional than KOA.

LIH and OGG have runway issues that prevent a lot of longer flights.
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ripcordd
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:33 am

Couple of reasons why only UA on ORD-HNL 1/Most people I know do not goto HNL they goto KOA/LIH/OGG I have been to Hawaii 20+ times and I have only spent 1 night in HNL. While I prefer to go non-stop to HNL to get that long flight over with then connect in HNL esp coming home you wake up and your home its very nice but the non-stop ORD-HNL is more money than IND-ORD-HNL and most points east and a little west of ORD as well. While I have no idea why AA pulled their ORD-HNL flight after soo many years and then years running seasonal only to put an extra DFW-OGG on and taking away the ORD-HNL cause I know DFW dosnt fill 4X daily 2-HNL and 2-OGG with O/D they are making connections to DFW the same ones they can make at ORD but without feed at the ORD end of Hawaii flights this will be limited to UA and maybe one day AA again unless HA jumps in with flight on their 321's HNL-SMF-ORD something like that.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 31):
While I have no idea why AA pulled their ORD-HNL flight after soo many years and then years running seasonal only to put an extra DFW-OGG on and taking away the ORD-HNL cause I know DFW dosnt fill 4X daily 2-HNL and 2-OGG with O/D they are making connections to DFW the same ones they can make at ORD but without feed at the ORD end of Hawaii flights this will be limited to UA and maybe one day AA again unless HA jumps in with flight on their 321's HNL-SMF-ORD something like that.

Ill give you a hint:

                    
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
ripcordd
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:37 am

but my point is the plane was full from ORD and its full from DFW and full of connecting passengers and its only a tad shorter to DFW
 
Freshside3
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting adamblang (Reply 22):
Flip side of that – there're a surprising number of ignorant Americans that don't know Hawaii is a state and ask Hawaii residents about whether a passport is needed, what their nationality is, and other "Hawaii's surely another country" nonsense. If people think they need a passport to go to Hawaii, it's the same barrier (perceived instead of actual) for going there as any actual foreign country has.

Plus the number of people that will only bring a driver's license to fly to Canada----and be denied boarding at the airport for improper documentation.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 24):

Slightly off topic but clearly nobody wants to be dumped. Age aside, should it make a difference if a WWII vet is bumped versus another say 90 year old? Just wondering about people's views

No, it's not good for anyone to be bumped......but this highly publicized incident brought to light the weight restriction issues that Hawaii-bound 737s have. The number of people bumped from that particular flight was 14, IIRC.
 
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Schweigend
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10):
UA is stronger on both ends and has better equipment to make it work.

Very true. United has a total fleet of 74 B777s (not including 10 new 77Ws to be delivered by Summer 2017) -- 9 of which are dedicated to its Hawaiian operation with a 32F / 98Y+ / 214Y configuration. These fly from ORD, IAH, SFO, LAX, DEN, and GUM to HNL (also GUM-NRT). UA 764s go there from SFO, EWR, and IAD.

United is lucky among the US3 to have this kind of 777 mass -- and it intends to convert the 9 HI config. birds to a 10-abreast Y cabin with lie-flats in F ... I don't know what that'll do to the seating capacity -- 344 total pax is alot already!

UA's large fleet of 777s will allow it return ten more into the U.S. domestic trunk market, starting late next year, thanks to 787 deliveries.

Specific to ORD: I don't think AA can spare a frame for the ORD-HNL route. It has probably crunched the numbers for the 763 and decided not to go back in. Maybe, however, it could employ an A330 from USAirways, as its 787s arrive. Meanwhile UA can fill its flight with local and conx pax profitably.

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):
Except for the fact there had been 737s on some of the flights, which had been weight-restricted, people left off, and got a lot of negative press coverage(particularly when the WWII veteran was bumped)

UA's 737 flights to Hawaii are from SFO and LAX only -- and that is just a few frequencies. What does that have to do with Chicago - Hi. flights?

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 28):
UA is very involved in ORD-OGG, offering a daily 777 in summer.

True that.
 
Freshside3
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 35):
UA's 737 flights to Hawaii are from SFO and LAX only -- and that is just a few frequencies. What does that have to do with Chicago - Hi. flights?

The case for keeping presence on ORD-HNL instead of solely relying on the West Coast.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:56 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 6):
As you said AA flew it occasionally until recently,

AA used to fly it twice daily on DC-10-30 aircraft, I flew this route so many times when living at HNL & having my in-laws in Chicago. For a long time AA tagged HNL-OGG as a tail end of this flight, then it would go back the same way.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 6):
so maybe that makes Hawaiian look at it sometime or AA to try again, but I wouldn't say it is 'so little' all things considered.
Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 17):
You are right on this one. Hawaii is a great place, but does not have the "depth" of things to do, for most to warrant a repeat visit.

Hawaii has the culture which is lost in many other "beach destinations" Hawaii is not just a beach destination, it's so much more, for anyone who can't find more to Hawaii than beaches hasn't been there or wasn't looking very hard.

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 18):
Uhhh....have you ever been to Hawaii?

Exactly what I was going to ask ....

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
Hmmm...AFAIK, most people do know as Hawaii as a state of the United States. In fact, I can't ever recall even once in my life where I've met/talked to someone from the United States who doesn't know about Hawaii.

In my experience as a 20+ year veteran of the travel industry is that anyone I came across that didn't know Hawaii was just another state, were from other countries to begin with, not one American I worked with thought they needed a passport to go & visit the Hawaiian Islands.
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 31):
Couple of reasons why only UA on ORD-HNL 1/Most people I know do not goto HNL they goto KOA/LIH/OGG I have been to Hawaii 20+ times and I have only spent 1 night in HNL.

While that is the case for some, a huge percentage of travel to Hawaii - and just about all business travel - is to HNL. Indeed, more than twice as many people visit Oahu each year as do Maui, the next most visited island. Oahu also has twice as much money spent on it as Maui. Indeed, in 2013, Oahu was the destination for 63% of air visitors. Your anecdotal experience isn't played out in the numbers.

http://files.hawaii.gov/dbedt/visito...r-research/2013-annual-visitor.pdf

Also, HNL has a major interisland hub, as it attracts workers and business from the other islands, allowing for quick and easy connections.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Indeed, in 2013, Oahu was the destination for 63% of air visitors. Your anecdotal experience isn't played out in the numbers.



Well he does have a point for US visitors. Well over half of Americans went to a neighbor island. Japanese on the other hand... ridiculously Honolulu centric.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
N1120A
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 39):

Well he does have a point for US visitors. Well over half of Americans went to a neighbor island.

Even if over half of Americans went to a neighbor island, they are spread between the 3 main ones. The majority of traffic is still going to HNL. Combine that with the runway issues at OGG and LIH, along with the HA operation at HNL, and lift will still be very HNL-centric.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:00 am

LAX is probably a good microcosm for this, being the worlds biggest gateway to Hawaii with heaps of local and connecting traffic. Today was 17 HNL flights and 21 neighbor island flights. Pretty similar equipment array too. If you went back 10/20 years, I don't think the neighbor islands wouldve been on top. It's further evidence that nonstops to HNL from ORD/east coast are less important than they used to be and are only one aspect of the total Hawaiian market.
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
While that is the case for some, a huge percentage of travel to Hawaii - and just about all business travel - is to HNL.

Shhhh!! Don't say this out loud!! The "Hawaii is a FF dumping ground with no business traffic at all and should be privileged to have service at all because its a purely leisure destination" trolls will hear you! Then again, the "market demands frequency for biz travelers therefore smaller aircraft are necessary to not over saturate the market" group will applaud you!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
Hmmm...AFAIK, most people do know as Hawaii as a state of the United States.

Though I like to think this should be common knowledge, it's a question that is frequently asked to me about traveling here. Though admittedly, more so from the folks from the eastern part of the country about coming here or me going there if it was a hassle to get my visa. So though not a common question, it happens more than you might expect.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:54 am

This is a long flight that requires an expensive plane to operate, and so many connection points makes no sense to offer to many non stops
 
eaglepower83
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:21 pm

I know I'm not 'everybody' but when my friends and I traveled to Hawaii a few years ago from ORD, we stopped in SFO.
And we really liked it. We had a nice 2hr break for lunch, and then got on our next plane to HI, arrived for dinner.
It was a great trip, and we didn't feel like crap, being trapped in a tube for a direct flight.
If I did it again, I'd definitely connect again on the west coast.
 
luckyone
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:37 pm

Why so little ORD-HNL traffic??

Because ORD isn't in Japan or California.   
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
Most American's don't have a passport and won't get one just to go to the aforementioned places.

This article claims that as of last year about 46% of American's have passports, and at the rate they're being issued it looks like we'll pass 50% pretty soon here.
http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/...-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/

This article discusses how record numbers of American's now hold passports and how the number has risen dramatically over the last 20 years, which is why it's understandable that people still think so many american's are passport-less.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbe...r-of-americans-now-hold-passports/

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
I can't ever recall even once in my life where I've met/talked to someone from the United States who doesn't know about Hawaii.

Agreed.
 
AADC10
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:06 pm

The question is not why there is so little ORD-HNL, the question is will it last? Hawaii can be reached from the west coast with 737s now but ORD-HNL ties up a couple of 772s. UA dropped it for a time after the DC-10 retirement because only their 772s and 744s had the range and they did not want to have to commit aircraft that are potentially more valuable on international long haul routes. Since ORD was PMUA's largest hub they eventually reversed their decision but now that there are flights to HNL from PMCO hubs that are larger (IAH) or in bigger cities (EWR), ORD is not as important as it once was. It could go the way of the short lived IAD-HNL route.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 46):
This article claims that as of last year about 46% of American's have passports, and at the rate they're being issued it looks like we'll pass 50% pretty soon here.

The numbers in the Forbes article are more accurate than the first one you linked. The State Department publishes the figures. As of last year there were 121.5 million valid passports in circulation or around 38% of the US population.

Add me to the list of people who has never heard someone ask if Hawaii was a state.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
steex
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RE: Why So Little ORD-HNL?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 47):
ORD is not as important as it once was. It could go the way of the short lived IAD-HNL route.

IAD-HNL still operates daily using a 764 as UA145 (return is UA144).

And for what it's worth, ORD-HNL can be operated by a single 777 round-trip, it does not tie up more than one aircraft. As it is scheduled now, the ORD departure is scheduled for 9:05 AM and the return is scheduled for an ORD arrival of 5:04 AM. That leaves adequate ground time for the turn at HNL (though it often doesn't turn, but rather rotates out to another hub) as well as a good cleaning at ORD.

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