Gazdon121
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Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:42 am

North runway is currently closed due to protesters on the runway the south is still open

http://news.sky.com/story/1517885/pr...test-on-runway-at-heathrow-airport
 
IAHflyer97
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:07 am

what are the UK's protesting laws like? I would imagine that it's perfectly legal for officers to just throw these people (who I'm sure are trespassing) off of government property, right?
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readytotaxi
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:10 am

Update, northern runway operating again.  
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Gazdon121
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:19 am

Guess we won't be seeing any unusual diverts now
 
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thekorean
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:43 am

Funny how they never protest on highways, which contributes far more to climate change (cars).

Oh yea because that would affect THEIR LIFE.

I am genuinely curious how many of these idiots actually take tubes and buses and not drive at all. Probably slim minority. Most definitely drive cars.

Way to kill the Earth.

[Edited 2015-07-12 23:45:13]
 
Andy33
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 1):
what are the UK's protesting laws like? I would imagine that it's perfectly legal for officers to just throw these people (who I'm sure are trespassing) off of government property, right?

Airports aren't government property in the UK. However unless these people had airside passes you can be pretty sure that they have been removed by the police and are now being interviewed by the Counter Terrorism Command of the Metropolitan Police as they will almost certainly have committed several security offences just by being there, and until the interviews are complete it won't become clear whether they are actually protestors or terrorists using protest as a cover.
UK anti-terrorist laws are pretty draconian, and the length of time the police can hold them could be weeks rather than days, let alone the usual hours, though probably won't be.
The police will also want to know how they got there.
 
bennett123
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:13 am

I see from the BBC Website that group involved is called Plane Stupid.


Says it all really.
 
Gazdon121
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:22 am

Does anyone know if there was any diverts considering how busy the runways are in the mornings
 
b747400erf
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:25 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 4):
Funny how they never protest on highways, which contributes far more to climate change (cars).

Oh yea because that would affect THEIR LIFE.

Environmental groups lobby all the time for higher emissions standards for automobiles. And there are protests if a new motorway is proposed. Your argument is just a desperate attempt to change the subject.
 
David_itl
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:35 am

Okay. They are protesting about emissions. So what they will do is force the closure of 1 runway. this means that MORE holding will need to be done or a diversion to another airport. Both of which result in more emissions. Yep, such clever joined up thinking.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:36 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 8):

I am just talking about this specific group. Have you checked out their twitter and Facebook page? Its insane.
 
EI320
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:50 am

The only thing this protest draws attention to is how out of touch these guys really are. If they are hoping to attract support for their cause, they are going the wrong way about it. Idiots.
 
uta999
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:21 am

This needs to be dealt with firmly and quickly, before it becomes a weekly event.

Use the snow plough to shift them and treat it as a terror threat.

Minimum of five years in jail should send them a message.
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TC957
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:26 am

We are far too soft with these f.......idiots. They have caused criminal damage and trespassing into a highly secure area. Plus wasting police time and general disruption to people going about their business.
Pity the first early morning arriving BA 380's didn't land on top of them.
 
uta999
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:39 am

The Met Police need to make a firm statement today that any future events will be met by possible lethal force.

It could have been a terror attack on the airport itself.

This is Heathrow Airport airside. Not the M3 at Twyford Downs.

These wasters do not deserve the air they breath. Protesting is not a right where National Security is involved.
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Scorpio
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:59 am

Quoting uta999 (Reply 14):
The Met Police need to make a firm statement today that any future events will be met by possible lethal force.

Back up there Rambo. You're seriously suggesting killing protestors? Surely if you know anything about history you realise this is a stupid idea. Only thug governments and dictatorships deal with protests by killing the protestors. Democracies deal with protests like this the way they were dealt with today: arrest the trespassers and let the courts deal with them.

[Edited 2015-07-13 02:00:02]
 
uta999
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:00 am

27R is open for departures only. The first two holding areas are closed. Departing aircraft are using the third taxiway onto the runway. Presumably full length heavies will depart from 27L.

The runway is closed for landings due to the protest.
Your computer just got better
 
vfw614
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:12 am

From what I gather, this started at 3:30 am this morning and the protesters tied themselves to each other and also to the runway - no idea how. Took 4 hours to remove the first. So it's not just about some nutters doing rain dances on the runway who simply need to be chased off.

EDIT: That's how they have done it: https://twitter.com/planestupid/status/620444095257935873/photo/1

[Edited 2015-07-13 02:14:39]
 
Holidaycharter
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:37 am

I hate these stupid little groups nothing but a pain in the rear, should of rolled the fire truck out and blasted them all out.
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:43 am

I assume from some of the pictures that I have seen that they gained access by cutting through a wire fence?

Is there no way to detect such a breach of the fence, either by sensor or electrification?

It seems very easy for unwanted elements to gain access to one of the worlds largest and busiest airports with little trouble.
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
TC957
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:53 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 15):
Back up there Rambo. You're seriously suggesting killing protestors? Surely if you know anything about history you realise this is a stupid idea. Only thug governments and dictatorships deal with protests by killing the protestors. Democracies deal with protests like this the way they were dealt with today: arrest the trespassers and let the courts deal with them.

And if they tried doing this at airports in the US or Middle East, they'd be dealt with - how exactly ?
 
ZeeZoo
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:56 am

Having walked alongside it many a time, it's just a standard fence which would easily be accessed with some wire cutters. Hell, walk up to there with a ladder and you'd be able to climb over.

The severe consquences, unnecessary disruption, risk of death and psychological barrier of the fence is sufficient enough to prevent anyone being stupid enough to penetrate it.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:07 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 20):
And if they tried doing this at airports in the US or Middle East, they'd be dealt with - how exactly ?

By being arrested and charged. As they should be. Perhaps not in some middle eastern countries, but there are a few there that would qualify for the label 'thug governments' or 'dictatorships', so...
 
richcandy
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:16 am

Hi

I don't have the answers, but can we not defend or more securely protect our airports? This time it was environmental activists who's purpose was to cause disruption. Next time it could be much more scary people who are out to cause loss of life.

In the 1970-80's BFS had one road in and one road out. There were check points on the road to the airport and often passengers were stopped and searched before they got to the terminal. This was in response to the actions of a group who when compared to todays terrorist could be considered school boys. I am NOT suggesting that the same security measures be used at LHR today, but at least to me it does seam strange that people with wire cutters can easily gain access to the runways.

Alex
 
ZeeZoo
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:31 am

There's not actually not much else they can do as the runway runs alongside the Northern Perimeter Road. Electrocution? You'll be getting unsuspecting visitors killed. Sensors (if they don't already have them)? Yep, but the response time would be insufficient and they already have CCTV/eyes of the pilots. A barrier made out of any other material could easily be climbed with a ladder.
 
Gazdon121
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:53 am

Something like this happened at STN a few years ago not sure if same organisation
 
Pbb152
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:55 am

TC957, can you please confirm that your opinion is that in the U.S. these protestors would have been killed by the authorities? Really eagerly awaiting your reply if that's your opinion.
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting ZeeZoo (Reply 21):
Having walked alongside it many a time, it's just a standard fence which would easily be accessed with some wire cutters. Hell, walk up to there with a ladder and you'd be able to climb over.

That doesn't alarm you in the current world climate?

Quoting ZeeZoo (Reply 24):
Electrocution? You'll be getting unsuspecting visitors killed

Big signs that warn you might work?

I was thinking of something where the whole fence would be like a giant circut/sensor and it if were broken somewhere, alarms go off and security is dispatched. I know not if such a thing exists or can be made...

Quoting ZeeZoo (Reply 24):
Yep, but the response time would be insufficient

Surely it is insufficient now when protestors/terrorists are caught once inside the perimeter and already near things of considerable flammability.

Prevention is always better than cure.
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
Mir
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:09 am

Quoting ZeeZoo (Reply 24):
There's not actually not much else they can do as the runway runs alongside the Northern Perimeter Road. Electrocution? You'll be getting unsuspecting visitors killed.

Build a second, interior, fence. The outer one next to the road is a normal fence, and the inside one is electrified.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ZeeZoo
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:21 am

"Prevention is always better than cure" - Hence, why we have intelligence services.

Building an interior fence? Duh *brain fade*, yep, that would be a good measure.
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:31 am

Quoting ZeeZoo (Reply 29):
"Prevention is always better than cure" - Hence, why we have intelligence services.

Who, inevitability and unfortunately, will eventually fail unless they stand at 100m intervals along the fence and PHYSICALLY try to deter entry.
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
bennett123
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:56 am

David_itl

I think that they would respond by demanding less flights.

Their stance is much travel is not necessary and should be banned.
 
nikeherc
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:50 pm

Build two fences. The outer fence curves outward until almost horizontal. This fence was designed for prisons, where it curves inside. Electrify the inner fence. Top it with razor wire. Anybody that gets past the first fence isn't a legitimate visitor. Another solution is dual fences with dogs in between. This works at highly secure military facilities.

People who illegally access airport runways are a danger to themselves and others. That is the requirement for involuntary commitment to a mental institution in the U.S.

These people are potentially very dangerous. I believe that they should be subject to fair enforcement of all appropriate laws.

[Edited 2015-07-13 05:52:24]
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G-CIVP
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:57 pm

Before everyone starts recommending a double fence, the fence on the south side at LHR is an anti climb fence which as the name suggests, difficult to climb and second, difficult to cut with wire cutters. The one on the northside is older and I suspect it will be replaced shortly! For the majority of the perimeter at LHR it is difficult to access due to Terminals 4 and 5, the Cargo centre, staff and customer car parking and the blast wall.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 32):
Build two fences. The outer fence curves outward until almost horizontal. This fence was designed for prisons, where it curves inside. Electrify the inner fence. Top it with razor wire. Anybody that gets past the first fence isn't a legitimate visitor. Another solution is dual fences with dogs in between. This works at highly secure military facilities.

Build one fence, then have a (salt water) moat with sharks with friggin laser beams.
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Adipasquale
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:36 pm

This sort of publicity stunt is absolutely ridiculous. These people should spend their time protesting something useful. While carbon emissions are a problem, aircraft are not the main source of the problem. If they really want to make a difference, they would do their research and realize that most carbon emissions come from cars and trucks and that the most effective way to change this is to lobby for stricter emissions standards. But that would take actual work, while sitting down on a runway takes no effort and is more flashy. Idiots like this detract from the environmental movement because they get all the attention for their stupid, useless "protests" and consequently, make people actually trying to figure things out seem like a big joke as well. These "protesters" should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law to discourage other idiots from doing the same thing over again.
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par13del
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:36 pm

My issue is not that they got in, once in why would it take hours to have them removed, and no before the smart folks chime in I'm not saying use bulldozers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...runway-protest-expansion-plan.html
We have seen folks removed with force at demonstrations in the wrong place but tolerated elsewhere.
First step would be to pepper spray the lot to incapacitate to effect speedy removal.
Thing is, this is the type of protest the politicians will push people to when they work ever so hard to curtail the strength of unions, and yes, civil disobedience can be just as costly as a union strike.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 37):
Thing is, this is the type of protest the politicians will push people to when they work ever so hard to curtail the strength of unions, and yes, civil disobedience can be just as costly as a union strike

I'm not exactly clear as to how this sort of protest would be affected by the government trying to curtail the strength of unions. In the case of unions, it is people protesting and fighting for wages, benefits and working conditions; things that actually matter. In the case of the airport protestors, it is a bunch of NIMBYs and people that have nothing better to do with their life than bitch and moan. If anything, the government trying to curtail the strength of unions should have the effect of focusing protests more on real issues (wages and benefits) instead of this senseless drivel.
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StTim
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:49 pm

I hope Heathrow sues them for the cost of the disruption + police costs!
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 34):
Build one fence, then have a (salt water) moat with sharks with friggin laser beams.

Best plan so far...although sharks may be hard...but I think they could get some ill-tempered Sea Bass.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
Eurohub
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 36):
This sort of publicity stunt is absolutely ridiculous

Perhaps the most disappointing aspect is not the length of time being taken to remove them but that hours into their stunt, they were still tweeting photos being taken at the scene on their official twitter account.

These groups thrive on the oxygen of publicity and I don't understand why their phones/devices weren't immediately confiscated by the police - there's plenty of powers that the police have to do this yet they didn't meanwhile photos of the protest went viral!
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Pbb152
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting PoleHillSid (Reply 35):
I don't think we can say these unarmed persons would have been shot by the authorities in the U.S. They are white people.

Such a lame response. I see you have been brainwashed into believing nonsense from the liberal media.
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:13 pm

Unfortunately we are going to be seeing more of this in the coming months.

Personally I think anyone who invades an active airport and potentially puts other's lives at risk should be shot but that's me.
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
 
Freshside3
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 39):
I hope Heathrow sues them for the cost of the disruption + police costs!

Just like that one airline in the UK(I forget who) that is suing an unruly passenger for the costs of the diversion of the plane that his behavior caused.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting gulfstream650 (Reply 43):
Personally I think anyone who invades an active airport and potentially puts other's lives at risk should be shot but that's me.

I think shooting them would be a little extreme and would also turn them into martyrs. However, tasers, pepper spray and tear gas would do wonders.
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par13del
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 38):
I'm not exactly clear as to how this sort of protest would be affected by the government trying to curtail the strength of unions

Well when unions cannot legally strike what exactly do you expect to happen, accept management dictates or civil disobedience?
In this context I'm only viewing how these folks are dealt with since going forward, I expect this type protest to increase, not intended to derail.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting PoleHillSid (Reply 35):
I don't think we can say these unarmed persons would have been shot by the authorities in the U.S. They are white people.

White people are being shot in the US just as much as black people, it's just that nobody cares as black lives matter more than white lives in today's western world. When an unarmed black criminal gets shot it's a huge outrage, when an unarmed white criminal gets shot it's just a number in the statistics.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 46):
Well when unions cannot legally strike what exactly do you expect to happen, accept management dictates or civil disobedience?

Do you know well the state of unions in the UK? Here in the U.S. unions power are generally being chipped away, however, it has not led to an increase in this sort of dumb protest. Most of the airport protesters are not blue-collar workers, they are generally well to do and relatively young (20s to early 30s). They protest in this BS manner because they literally have nothing better to do with their lives and do not have a pressing need to earn a living.
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B737900
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 15):
Back up there Rambo. You're seriously suggesting killing protestors? Surely if you know anything about history you realise this is a stupid idea. Only thug governments and dictatorships deal with protests by killing the protestors. Democracies deal with protests like this the way they were dealt with today: arrest the trespassers and let the courts deal with them.

Well said. My feelings exactly. Thanks.
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
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par13del
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RE: Heathrow North Runway Closed Protesters

Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 49):
Do you know well the state of unions in the UK?

Well they just had a 24 hour tube strike and the general views from the public is that they are overpaid - articles compared their wages to doctors, funny thing I thought the doctors went into the wrong profession if it was about money - and the politicians said its time to curtail and make it tougher to withdraw services.
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