liquidair
Topic Author
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 2:01 pm

Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:59 am

According to this rather vague article, two pilots have been identified as having potentially been radicalised by ISIS.

http://www.malaysiasun.com/index.php/sid/234715611

Apart from being worrying for Indonesia, it does open to a bigger debate on how and what can the industry do to protect itself from harm?

I'd include protection from the German Wings incident too, but radicalisation is perhaps more of a security worry?
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
User avatar
winterlight
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:57 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:24 pm

If they're stupide enough to believe ISIS are a Muslim group that's their problem.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
Noise
Posts: 2457
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 1):
If they're stupide enough to believe ISIS are a Muslim group that's their problem.

It's also our problem.
 
liquidair
Topic Author
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 2:01 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:29 pm

Still, begs the question- how can they stop this sort of thing happening?

Take a nut job flying into LHR, for a proper carrier, radicalised- decides to miss runway and slam into T5... There's not much we could do is there?

Scary thought. No matter how unlikely it may seem.
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:35 am

With recruitment of pilots being what it is in muslim countries we are likely to have people with very extreme views piloting aircrafts.
in SE Asia we are likely to find these people within Malaysia and possibly Indonesia.

Malaysia has become more and more islamic, previously wearing a full weil was considered absolutely unacceptable these days i see plenty of locals fully covered. Conservative forces pur money into mosques and imamans are educated in Egypt, Yemen etc. Remember when the issues in Egypt started, many Malaysians had to be flown home well 99% attended religious schools.
These people come back with different ideas than the locals. That means we now have some very dark conservative men preaching a very different form of islam in Malaysia and probably Indonesia. East Malaysia usually send a few of them back every month but even Sabah is starting to see fully covered people on a regular basis these days.

So of course were likely to see some pilots being radicalized. However going from radicalized to a threat is a pretty long way.
Ive seen quite a few malays with support Palestine flags etc, when asked what Palestine is etc and where on a map it is they have no clue. Its something they have been told at their local mosque if the imam is one educated abroad, usually Egypt where these thoughts are pretty common. (Malaysia stopped sending their imams to Pakistan about 15 years ago for education).

So we are likely to find radical pilots, for sure, just as we are likely to find them in most Middle Eastern carriers. But thats not a threat.
If any of them behave like the man with an ISIS flag, he must of course be suspended indefinitely. However knowing Malaysia and Indonesia well I suspect that he would soon be flying somewhere else, authorities, lower such, tend to look between the fingers pretend everything is in order or take a small bribe. However the Indonesian intelligence / military police are not to be messed with and they don't, at present, have any support whatsoever for ISIS people and my hope is that they monitor such men enough to ensure that the piloting is over for them. When they want to they have very very good control over events.

Air Asia used to be an airline that was the opposite of radicalization, however they have had to accept certain compromises with uniforms etc as well, even though their staff prefers the modern short skirts etc they now offer a more boring uniform alternative. Luckily their staff who today is more and more bumi still want to look attractive and wear the sexier choice. The conservative forces of Malaysia really don't like this since the Malay ladies show legs and arms and wear a very revealing dress. I hope Air Asia doesn't get to bogged down by KL demands and continue to be modern, we shall see. T Fernandes entertainment pals arent exactly running the show anymore so values Im sure has changed.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12576
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 10):
Still, begs the question- how can they stop this sort of thing happening?

Even for the few pilot suicides that have taken place with Islamic airlines/pilots (e.g. EgyptAir, Silkair, etc) neither had anything to do with terrorism.

I'd say be more on the lookout for a middle-aged man with fiscal/relationship issues, than anyone just based on religion
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
benjjk
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:29 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 12):
I'd say be more on the lookout for a middle-aged man with fiscal/relationship issues, than anyone just based on religion

Bingo.

There is a tiny tiny tiny chance of this happening, and pilots do go through decent security background checks to try and stop it. Any period of time spent in say Syria would be identified by the authorities.

The bigger (and yet still tiny) risk is pilots with mental health pressures. There needs to be more support in this area.
 
wanderlustlax
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 4:01 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting yenne09 (Reply 15):
The gentleman simply stated his preferred travel accommodations based on cultural circumstances which could potentially be detrimental to safe and reliable travel in some circumstances.

You resort to personal attacks on someone because they don't share your opinion.

Ah, yes, China. The hallmark of free individual thought and the beacon for justice of conviction of personal opinions.
 
eal
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:51 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:52 am

Let's try and not be so political and hypocritical.

I think the article raises a valid question but it is poorly present. Islam is used as the scapegoat because Islam is big and scary to the West, but what measures are in place to stop radicalized pilots from effectively highjacking their own aircraft and using it as a weapon. It's unlikely, but the world is a changing place, and if it hasn't happened once it eventually will.

FedEx 705 was almost hijacked by an employee with the intent of flying the aircraft into FedEx headquarters, PSA 1771 was brought down by an employee wanting to assassinate his superior. In both these cases, anger of being fired was the culprit but what prohibits a radicalized Alaskan Airlines pilot from slamming his 737 into downtown Seattle for religious/political/personal reasons.
 
User avatar
Coal
Posts: 2539
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:14 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:43 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
Malaysia has become more and more islamic, previously wearing a full weil was considered absolutely unacceptable these days i see plenty of locals fully covered. Conservative forces pur money into mosques and imamans are educated in Egypt, Yemen etc. Remember when the issues in Egypt started, many Malaysians had to be flown home well 99% attended religious schools.

Funny you mention this. I was reading a report on the increased Islamization of Kelantan in M'sia as well as Aceh in Sumatra.

On a related note, an acquaintance used to fly for Susi Air in Indonesia. One of his colleague pilots was sent to jail overnight for breaking religious laws during a layover in Aceh. Apparently he approached a girl at the beach for a chat, and off he was to spend the night in a cell.

Shame. I've been to Aceh for diving. I think it's a beautiful place, even though a lot of the coral was destroyed during the tsunami. They desperately need some industry / economic stimulus to distract them away from this radicalization of syariah law.

Rgds
Coal
Nxt Flts: KE SIN-ICN-ATL | DL ATL-FLL | AA MIA-ATL | KE ATL-ICN-SIN
 
mandala499
Posts: 6591
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:40 am

This is the 2nd time Indonesian pilots have been put under suspicion of supporting or being a member of a terrorist organization.
About 10 yrs ago, 2 pilots from another airline were put under suspicion to the extent that the police counter-terrorism unit came to the airline to work out how to arrest them both at the same time, to minimize the chance of the other to "get into action". Anyways, schedules rejigged, etc, and both were made to arrive on their flights at the same time at the same gate, with police posing as passengers, etc, and the arrests were made... Only for both to be cleared of charges.

Yes, radicalized pilots are a worry. But the worry is not that they're radical, the worry is that they star "acting up". There is a difference between being religious, sympathetic, and being a terrorist...

As to the case of these 2 pilots, 1, was found by a colleague to be putting up ISIS flag on his facebook and alarm was raised by the company. After "discussions over tea and biscuits" with the chief, the company decided that being sympathetic does not equate membership (Membership of ISIS/ISIL is illegal in Indonesia) and therefore the company decided not to take things further as it would be discriminatory to do so, and the pilot continued to fly professionally. However, others who heard of it, threw spice to the event and accused the chief of being discriminatory towards religiously observant pilots (Islam specifically), and ended up having that guy buying the spice and confronting the chief and it was short of a physical assault (which was dismissable as that company has zero tolerance for it).

The other guy, I think, continues to fly normally.
One of them has come forward publicly that he is a law abiding citizen (and a former air force pilot sworn to uphold the law and constitution, and the freedoms it guarantees (including freedom of religion and freedom of sympathy)), and has protested against the witch hunt aimed at mere sympathizers.

The police has since investigated the two (one of them not being a new case, putting the subject under surveillance for a while), and declared them clear of any allegations of being members of ISIS. There's no doubt that surveillance of these two will continue.

Quoting Coal (Reply 22):
I was reading a report on the increased Islamization of Kelantan in M'sia as well as Aceh in Sumatra

There's not much we in Indonesia can do with Aceh. Freedom to apply Shariah law was part of the peace deal between Indonesia and Aceh. The amount of silly "social laws" that has been put upon Aceh by their hardline rulers is ridiculous and has our local human rights organizations screaming.
Oh, where are the western human rights organizations? Oh yeah, they disappeared.
Who imposed this silly Shariah on Aceh? Oh, yeah, the west (I think Sweden in particular), who coaxed/forced Indonesia into a peace deal with these hardliners...
So, blame Sweden for your friend spending the night in an Acehnese jail!  
Quoting Coal (Reply 22):
They desperately need some industry / economic stimulus to distract them away from this radicalization of syariah law.

The Aceh government believe that central government handout and oil/gas money will make them prosperous... They seem oblivious that a lot of these oil/gas fields under Aceh's administration will run dry over the next decade, and that explorations have been mildly successful, but the reluctance by oil and gas companies to invest big, has something to do with the lack of power of the central government in Aceh... And yeah, if these oil and gas companies decided not to invest and tap those new fields, Aceh will simply blame the central government etc... The silly-ness never seem to end.

How many airline ventures have been dreamed up by the Acehnese? Countless. How many were killed by Acehnese corruption, most of them... some ended up with non-Aceh partners pulling out.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
sq_ek_freak
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:48 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:51 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 1):
If they're stupide enough to believe ISIS are a Muslim group that's their problem.

Kind of is our problem if either me or a loved one is working as crew or flying as a passenger on a plane that he or she is flying.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
I'd say be more on the lookout for a middle-aged man with fiscal/relationship issues, than anyone just based on religion

Not even middle aged as the Germanwings crash showed us recently.

As people have pointed out religion and more specifically Islam hasn't really played into pilot suicides - obviously someone who empathizes with the cause/rationale of ISIS probably shouldn't be at the controls of an airplane but I think the larger issues deals more with background and psychological testing rather than who a pilot prays to or how religious or conservative their beliefs are.
Keep Discovering
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11919
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:52 am

The line between being sympathetic to ISIS (or Al Qaida for that matter) and being a member is very fine, in fact I'd say it doesn't exist. I certainly don't want to have any interaction with someone sympathetic to such organizations ! They murder people on a daily basis, we're not talking about groups blowing up empty government buildings once in a while (not that I support those).

Clearly these countries need harsher laws on the subject. In France, putting an ISIS flag on your facebook can send you to jail, and if it doesn't, at least you will not pass any kind of security background check, that's for sure.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sharles
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:29 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:28 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
Clearly these countries need harsher laws on the subject. In France, putting an ISIS flag on your facebook can send you to jail, and if it doesn't, at least you will not pass any kind of security background check, that's for sure.

So to fight ISIS, we need to become more like ISIS?
Because sending somebody to jail or impeding their employment opportunities because of them exercising their free speech rights is exactly how ISIS and similar organizations begin.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6591
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:44 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
In France, putting an ISIS flag on your facebook can send you to jail, and if it doesn't, at least you will not pass any kind of security background check, that's for sure.

There's a difference between "can" and "will".
In Indonesia, it "can"... same as France.
You will get covert surveillance placed upon you, like many other countries.
However, it doesn't mean you "will" automatically go to prison.
One of the 2, seems to be "having difficulty" finding employment... now, no prizes for guessing why.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
They murder people on a daily basis,

That guy "having difficulty" finding employment haven't murdered anyone... not yet at least, and there's no evidence "with legally reasonably likelihood" that he is intending to either... Until then... he is within his rights.

Lots of these guys here, talk religious harshly on social media, but wouldn't hurt a fly... I see them almost on a daily basis. These types of pilots existed long before 9/11...nothing new to us.

However, the seeming radicalization of that "guy having difficulty finding new employment" seems to have taken a new direction recently, and that's why alarm bells were ringing... and rightly so... even if he is still within his rights.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11919
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:10 am

Quoting sharles (Reply 13):
So to fight ISIS, we need to become more like ISIS?
Because sending somebody to jail or impeding their employment opportunities because of them exercising their free speech rights is exactly how ISIS and similar organizations begin.

Free speech has limits, supporting terrorists who murder people on a daily basis is one of them (or should be). In Indonesia I'm sure far less dangerous words will lead you in jail, like "blasphemy".

Are you really saying you're fine with a pilot, or cop, or judge, supporting ISIS ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:14 am

These pilots should not be able to pass a medical due to mental illness.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6591
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
In Indonesia I'm sure far less dangerous words will lead you in jail, like "blasphemy".

Really? What kind of blasphemy?
Can we stick to aviation (and aviation security in this case)?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Are you really saying you're fine with a pilot, or cop, or judge, supporting ISIS ?

As long as they can separate their personal views from their professional views, I may be uncomfortable with it, but there's nothing I can do about it other than go somewhere else. However, if they start mixing the 2 up... they're no longer suitable for that job. Simple.

Are you fine with having a reserve combat pilot flying you on an airliner? I'm sure it's fine, but as soon as he starts flying passengers around in the same manner as his combat flying, then it is no longer OK... this is regardless of whose side he's on.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3614
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:18 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 1):
If they're stupide enough to believe ISIS are a Muslim group that's their problem.

ISIS is a Muslim group just like Boko Haram and others. Just because their understanding of the faith differs from the mainstream and is very violent doesn't mean they aren't Muslim.

Quite worrying news indeed. I can understand why poorly educated and marginalized people would get radicalized, however I can never understand why rather educated and supposedly well doing people, like commercial pilots, would end up doing that.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 10):
There's not much we in Indonesia can do with Aceh. Freedom to apply Shariah law was part of the peace deal between Indonesia and Aceh. The amount of silly "social laws" that has been put upon Aceh by their hardline rulers is ridiculous and has our local human rights organizations screaming.
Oh, where are the western human rights organizations? Oh yeah, they disappeared.
Who imposed this silly Shariah on Aceh? Oh, yeah, the west (I think Sweden in particular), who coaxed/forced Indonesia into a peace deal with these hardliners...

Not surprising, they have really done their fair share of work at ensuring that radical Islam continues do to well in the future too. Sometimes I actually wonder which neighbour is a bigger threat to us, Russia or Sweden. Sweden obviously doesn't pose military threat, however some of the political madness going on in Sweden always threats to spread to this side of the border too. If it was up to our country's racist Swedish speaking party (RKP) we too would be harboring ISIS terrorists and offering them free housing and help in employment.

Quoting sharles (Reply 13):
So to fight ISIS, we need to become more like ISIS?
Because sending somebody to jail or impeding their employment opportunities because of them exercising their free speech rights is exactly how ISIS and similar organizations begin.

I would rather have the right to safe life than the right support a murdering terrorist organization, thank you very much.

[Edited 2015-07-15 04:44:35]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11919
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:30 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 17):
Really? What kind of blasphemy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Indonesia

Clearly a dangerous criminal : On 6 May 2010, a court sentenced Bakri Abdullah to one year in jail for blasphemy because the 70-year-old claimed to be a prophet and to have visited heaven in 1975 and 1997.

And what about those, close to committing murder I'm sure : In April 2007, police in Malang, East Java, detained forty-two Protestants for disseminating a “prayer video” that instructs individuals to put the Quran on the ground, and to pray for the conversion of Indonesia’s Muslim political leaders. In September 2007, a local court found each of those detained guilty of insulting religion, and sentenced each to five years in prison.[1]
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mandala499
Posts: 6591
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Indonesia

Oh that? That's part of our criminal code (KUHP) and there is no specific law on blasphemy in Indonesia. Yes, it's not religion specific. Let me get back to what you said:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
In Indonesia I'm sure far less dangerous words will lead you in jail, like "blasphemy".

Not "WILL", but "CAN". Those are two different things. If it is "will", believe me, our prisons would be overflowing by now!   
And ah, Bakri Abdullah have gotten into prison after he was declared sane and not delusional, how many other false prophets or those claiming to be prophets are there that haven't been charged by that law? A lot more than those who made it to prison.

And going back to topic:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 18):
I can understand why poorly educated and marginalized people would get radicalized, however I can never understand why rather educated and supposedly well doing people, like commercial pilots, would end up doing that.

This raised alarm bells to many... terrorism and sectarian experts were caught napping when this case came up.
However, educated and well doing people usually self-radicalize themselves, in order to get a following. The major worry for us in the industry is, is not these 2 pilots, but the followers of these 2 pilots, if any. Many pilots of all faiths in Indonesia has come out in support of these 2 pilots, citing that sympathizing isn't membership.

Everyone can worry all they want about these 2 pilots, but as for some media reports citing that these 2 are/were ISIS members really screwed it up for everyone who are saying "becareful about radicalization of pilots".
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11919
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 20):
The major worry for us in the industry is, is not these 2 pilots, but the followers of these 2 pilots, if any. Many pilots of all faiths in Indonesia has come out in support of these 2 pilots, citing that sympathizing isn't membership.

Everyone can worry all they want about these 2 pilots, but as for some media reports citing that these 2 are/were ISIS members really screwed it up for everyone who are saying "becareful about radicalization of pilots".

Personally I now worry about "many pilots". But to be fair I had no intention of going to Indonesia, I know now what I can say to my boss if he asks me to go work there.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sharles
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:29 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Are you really saying you're fine with a pilot, or cop, or judge, supporting ISIS ?

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
And yes, I know Voltaire did not actually say that. But the sentiment stands.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 18):
I would rather have the right to safe life than the right support a murdering terrorist organization, thank you very much.

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Besides, nobody said support. Giving money to terrorists and sympathizing (in words) with a people's plight are two different things.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
Clearly a dangerous criminal : On 6 May 2010, a court sentenced Bakri Abdullah to one year in jail for blasphemy because the 70-year-old claimed to be a prophet and to have visited heaven in 1975 and 1997.

Hmmm. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/14/days-hosting-massive-free-speech-march-france-arrests-comedian-facebook-comments/
 
kaitak
Posts: 9724
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:33 pm

I tend to regard those who come out and wear their political/religious allegiances on their sleeves as far less a threat than those who keep it a secret. They're the people I worry about.

In a sense, it's much like a bomb threat on a plane; those who just want to cause trouble and inconvenience will make a threat and there'll be nothing to it. Those who actually want to do the deed ... won't give a telephone warning.
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5196
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 4):
With recruitment of pilots being what it is in muslim countries we are likely to have people with very extreme views piloting aircrafts.
in SE Asia we are likely to find these people within Malaysia and possibly Indonesia.

not sure if I heard correctly, but I recall recently hearing that Malaysia's military had some radicalised members within it.

oops, even worse, joined ISIS.

http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysia-army...slamic-state-officials-say-1879299

[Edited 2015-07-15 17:29:02]
 
mandala499
Posts: 6591
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Garuda And Air Asia Pilots Radicalised?

Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 23):
I tend to regard those who come out and wear their political/religious allegiances on their sleeves as far less a threat than those who keep it a secret. They're the people I worry about.

Spot on. This is why I disagree with that leak being published.
Past cooperation between AFP and Indonesia's BNPT (anti terrorism agency) would have one telling the other what they found once it is deemed an adequate threat. AFP hadn't told BNPT so it is not yet deemed an adequate threat, but a risk indeed. Now, this leak, just made it a tad more difficult now to get ISIS supporters and members (not mere sympathizers) because some would just "go under the radar" now... more difficult for both AFP and BNPT, and puts more sympathizers into a form of paranoia, and may actually end up putting them under the radar while pushing them over the edge. We now certainly can no longer use the two for leading the authorities to other "more valuable suspects".

This is why surveillance and information on terrorism should be kept with the experts and not be leaked out in such a careless manner. Remember the WWII poster? Careless Talk Costs Lives? Now we live in the days of "Careless Leaks Costs Lives".
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos