AA TWA Retro Jet

doulasc · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:11 am

When should we plan on seeing the TWA retro jet in AA's fleet? What type of plane
will it be on? What paint scheme the twin globe,The twin stripe 1975-1995 or the final one?
I would like to see it on a Boeing 777-200ER,but it will probably be on a Airbus plane.

PHX Flyer · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:18 am

Someone here on this board wrote a while ago that it would be a B738 in the 1980s red and white c/s, supposedly in the fall of this year.

[Edited 2015-07-14 20:34:14]

MavyWavyATR · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:30 am

I'd love to see the final TWA livery adore one of AA's aircraft. That particular TW livery gives me some serious nostalgia from my early days, considering that they were the first airline I ever flew on in my life.

warden145 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:44 am

Shame they aren't doing a 757...it would be cool to see a bird in the TWA livery of a type that was actually operated by TWA. Either that, or a widebody, given how large TWA's international presence was during its heyday.

But, at least we're seeing it at all

Byrdluvs747 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 1):
Someone here on this board wrote a while ago that it would be a B738 in the 1980s red and white c/s, supposedly in the fall of this year.

Yet another error by AA. The twin globe livery should be the one used. Why use the least imaginative TW livery. It was a mistake when TW introduced it and its a mistake now.

EA CO AS · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:34 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
The twin globe livery should be the one used.

You mean this one should be used? If so, I concur:

Schweigend · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:28 am

I've no problem with AA using a B738 for its TWA retrojet, since that aircraft is close proportionally to the 707s TW originally operated. An A319-320-321 in TW livery might look nice but would still be ... weird, since TW never flew those -- viz. the PSA 319 below.

And then there's the fact that American is putting its name using the current new-image font on the retrojets, which is very jarring -- see the PSA model:

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Photo © Jacob Brownlee

It would be better if they put "American" on there using the original font!

My personal choice for this project would be the Twin-Globe "Starstream" livery. Here are pics from the A.net database of TW 707s with Starstream and Redtail:

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Photo © Mark Piacentini

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Photo © Michel Gilliand

That's N8731 at PIK in 1973 and N18707 at CDG in 1981, both -331Bs.

My favorite find is this classic pic from Frank C. Duarte, Jr. (my A.net photo hero, for many, many reasons....)

N5727 (-131B) and N767TW (-331B) at LAX in Oct 1977:

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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):

Yes, that's the one!

But, would AA do the Classy thing and place its new logo next to the fetching TWA globe just aft of door L1, leaving the fuselage blank (as it should be), or instead paint "American" there, which would be just plain tacky.

[Edited 2015-07-14 22:38:30]

Byrdluvs747 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:32 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
You mean this one should be used? If so, I concur:

Yes, that is the "true" TWA livery.

EA CO AS · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:46 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 6):
would AA do the Classy thing and place its new logo next to the fetching TWA globe just aft of door L1, leaving the fuselage blank (as it should be), or instead paint "American" there, which would be just plain tacky.

I'd have to imagine the new logo would be in place of the TWA globe aft of L1, not in addition to. It would be consistent with what they've done with the other retrojets.

EA CO AS · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:47 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 7):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):You mean this one should be used? If so, I concur:
Yes, that is the "true" TWA livery.

Agreed. When you referenced "double globe" I wasn't sure if you meant the abomination that took over in the late 90s.

global2 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
You mean this one should be used? If so, I concur:

Truly as iconic an airline livery as Pan Am's original. I hope to God AA does not paint this on a stubby A319! The arrowhead would look best on a bullet-nosed 737 IMO, but on a A321 it would probably look pretty good too.

b747400erf · Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:44 am

I am surprised there will be a TWA livery as AA treated those pilots very poorly.

Byrdluvs747 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:52 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Agreed. When you referenced "double globe" I wasn't sure if you meant the abomination that took over in the late 90s.

Nah. While I did like the globe on that livery, I never liked the blue belly and red cheatline that ran into the tail.

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 6):
leaving the fuselage blank (as it should be), or instead paint "American" there, which would be just plain tacky.

I'm sure they will paint American on the fuselage.

NASBWI · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
I wasn't sure if you meant the abomination that took over in the late 90s.

I dunno if I'm in a minority here, but I'll say it anyway: as far as "newer" color schemes introduced (on airlines past and present), I really did like the last livery worn by TWA. It was classy, it paid homage to the twin globe in a stylized way, and it didn't go the way of "Euro-mono-color"

. It's becoming slightly harder these days to see an airline livery that isn't strictly white/gray/off-white with a 'swoosh' or simple logo. I'd vote for TWA's last livery any day.

CRJ 900 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:11 am

Personally i think that globe logo would be very nice on a A330-300.

Flaps · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:29 am

While I understand the nostalgia for the twin globes IMHO that was one of the ugliest schemes to ever disgrace an aircraft. I didn't like it when it was current in the 60's/70's and I don't like it any better now. The two schemes that followed were much more attractive. I do agree though that they aren't nearly as nostalgic as both represent a TWA in decline as opposed to its heyday under the globes.

shuttle9juliet · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:48 am

I wonder if TWA were still around today, if they would be contemplating a new livery?
After all the "new livery" would have been 20 years old now.

einsteinboricua · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:56 am

Quoting nasbwi (Reply 13):
I really did like the last livery worn by TWA

I agree. That was perhaps my favorite TWA livery.

rta · Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:04 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I would like to see it on a Boeing 777-200ER,but it will probably be on a Airbus plane.

Well regardless of Airbus or Boeing, it'll probably be a smaller/narrow body plane as those get the most visibility by the public.

trnswrld · Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:18 pm

The last TWA livery is downright gorgeous! However I think the twin stripe would bring back the most memories. The original TWA livery is kind of ugly IMO and would look really weird on a modern aircraft.

etops1 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:20 pm

The aircraft being used for the TWA heritage livery will be a 737-800. It will be the double red stripe livery .

Max752 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:02 pm

As for the aircraft in question, it's all been confirmed (and might actually have even been confirmed) that it will be a Boeing 737-800. As for the TW livery, well, AA hasn't officially release what livery they will work with but mock-ups from various enthusiast/sources seem to lean toward the red+white stripes.

There are still a lot of TW employees at American so maybe AA will put a poll up on the employee website, jetnet, to see what the backbone of AA/TW thinks.

Moose135 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 6):
It would be better if they put "American" on there using the original font!

If not the original font, US at least used an appropriate color on the titles for their retro jets:

I grew up around TWA - my father spent 40 years working for them at JFK, and if they are going to do a retro jet, I guess I would like the twin globe colors, however part of me wants no part of it, in any scheme. The thought of AA titles on a TWA jet would only be a reminder of this lie:

Sooner787 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 20):
The aircraft being used for the TWA heritage livery will be a 737-800. It will be the double red stripe livery .

Since I keep hearing a fall release date for the TWA retro jet,

I wonder if it will be a new build 738 that is delivered in the TWA scheme?

ozark1 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
The twin globe livery should be the one used.

One of the classiest corporate symbols ever. Please tell me what is classy or unique about that early 80's scheme. Kind of like the one WA ended up with in the end. No design. Just stripes and words. YAWWWN!

austwin · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:21 pm

I have to agree US did a much better job with the heritage liveries than AA is. None of the new AA jets look right.

UA444 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:23 pm

Why is it taking so long? They announced this two years ago.

cageyjames · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 26):
Why is it taking so long?

I assume the priority is to repaint the old US and AA livery first. The pmUS heritage aircraft are easy because they only replace the US Airways text with American. I assume the logistics of the process means that they'll do the AA heritage aircraft after the older liveries are painted.

UA444 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 27):

All the US retro birds had full repaints.

ckfred · Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:17 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Yet another error by AA. The twin globe livery should be the one used. Why use the least imaginative TW livery. It was a mistake when TW introduced it and its a mistake now.

But the livery after the twin globe was based, in part, on the TWA livery used on the Constellations, before the twin globe livery debuted with the jets. It was TWA's last livery which was completely lacking.

That said, it seems to me that some of the predecessor carriers of the combined AA/US deserve more than one retro jet. I would paint two aircraft in TWA liveries (twin globe and the double-stripe liveries). I would also do more than one Allegheny retro jet, with the current livery and the one that was red and bare metal. I would also do the last US Airway livery and the bare metal livery with the painted blue tail.

Quoting austwin (Reply 25):
I have to agree US did a much better job with the heritage liveries than AA is. None of the new AA jets look right.

Of course, current AA management, at the senior level, is mostly the US management that did the retro jets.

Sooner787 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:11 pm

IIRC...they're also planning a Reno Air retro jet on a 738,

I'd like to see that on a S80

TWA772LR · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:11 pm

I understand that the twin globe is extremely nostalgic, but I firmly believe it should be the final livery that should be applied. But instead of the tacky "American" decal, if should spell out American in the original font like a previous poster said.

f18raider · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:14 pm

Some mockups I did last year:

rj968 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting f18raider (Reply 32):
Some mockups I did last year:

Great work,

Looks like AA already did one of those

The last one reminds me of the DC-9 15

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Photo © Gary Vincent

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RJ

UA444 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

The TWA titles with the tiny American ones down below is much better and how all the retrojets should look.

pasu129 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting f18raider (Reply 32):
Some mockups I did last year:

Excellent work! Agreed that twin globe would be a knockout on 738!

Max752 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:38 pm

As for why it's taking so long. None of AA's legacies have been represented yet, AA just finished US's legacies. There is speculation that this fall is when the American legacies liveries will start to be painted.

ATA L1011 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 34):
The TWA titles with the tiny American ones down below is much better and how all the retrojets should look.

I agree, very nicely done!

Quoting f18raider (Reply 32):
Some mockups I did last year.

Nice work, that A319 with the mid 70's to '95 scheme is right on point!

wedgetail737 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:37 pm

Nah...get rid of the Air California with the black nose. The updated Air California w/o the black nose will look a lot better!

rickabone · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):

Agreed. When you referenced "double globe" I wasn't sure if you meant the abomination that took over in the late 90s.

IMO the last livery that TWA wore, which I think is the one you are referring to with the blue and gold was and still is one of my favorite airline liveries ever. It's a perfect mix of class and style, asthetically pleasing and sharp.

Byrdluvs747 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:40 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 31):
but I firmly believe it should be the final livery that should be applied.

And I firmly disagree with you. The final livery is always the "livery of failure" versus the better days of an airline. For example, many of us HP fans believe the first HP livery truly represents America West not the monstrosity of the final livery.

PC12Fan · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 17):

Quoting nasbwi (Reply 13):
I really did like the last livery worn by TWA

I agree. That was perhaps my favorite TWA livery.

I do see on A.net that not not only is this a favorite livery amongst TWA fans, but airliner fans altogether. Me personally? I think it should be this livery on a 738 as this is a combination used on the TWVA website.

My first choice would / should be the last TWA livery on the last MD-80 made. Now THAT would be nostalgic.

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JBo · Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:59 pm

I agree that the US Airways titles looked better on the retrojets because they at least color-matched the titles. If AA had applied a single-color variant of their new logo using the same colors, they would look a lot better on the retro liveries.

I also really like Raider's idea of putting the American logo smaller, below the cheatline next to the L1 door. The only drawback to this option is that the cheatlines are different on all the retro liveries, and some aren't as conducive to this concept as others.

I also have a feeling that some form of artistic license may be taken with the Reno retrojet, just because that concepts looks really crowded with both the Reno and AA titles upfront. I'm thinking that they may just omit the Reno titles entirely, having the grey stripe simply go straight down the fuselage.

Viscount724 · Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:34 am

If memory correct, TWA only acquired some TWA assets. It wasn't a normal merger where the two companies totally combine. AA didn't want to get stuck with bankrupt TWA's debts etc. Not sure whether that warrants a retrojet.

It would be like Delta adding a Pan Am retrojet.

I've always thought retrojet liveries only confuse customers and dilute the primary brand.

OB1504 · Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:30 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
If memory correct, TWA only acquired some TWA assets. It wasn't a normal merger where the two companies totally combine. AA didn't want to get stuck with bankrupt TWA's debts etc. Not sure whether that warrants a retrojet.

It would be like Delta adding a Pan Am retrojet.

Delta didn't take almost all of Pan Am's fleet, network, and staff.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
I've always thought retrojet liveries only confuse customers and dilute the primary brand.

What percentage of normal flyers even bother to look at the plane? As long as it says American on the side, I doubt they care.

milesrich · Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:21 pm

What about an Ozark airplane?

afcjets · Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting rickabone (Reply 39):
IMO the last livery that TWA wore, which I think is the one you are referring to with the blue and gold was and still is one of my favorite airline liveries ever. It's a perfect mix of class and style, asthetically pleasing and sharp.

I would not choose that one if they will only do one jet. It was introduced after TW had filed for bankruptcy twice and does not remind me of the golden age of TWA in the least.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 45):
What about an
Ozark airplane?

I haven't heard any mention of that. They definitely should.

I also agree they should place the American name and logo small and under the windows near the front, similar to how they do American Eagle.

UA444 · Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 46):

They're only doing the airlines that merged directly with US or AA.

afcjets · Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:21 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 47):
UA444

Allegheny wasn't a merger though, it was just a name change. While I don't think they should go back to the 1920s with every former regional airline that no one remembers, the Ozark brand outlasted Allegheny by seven years.

[Edited 2015-07-18 15:26:17]

N415XJ · Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:28 pm

I've never been able to understand why people like TWA's final livery so much. Putting it's connection with bankruptcy/bad times at the airline aside, I think it looks horribly ugly. Its style invokes the late 80s/early 90s in the worst way, instantly reminding me of VHS tapes, 1990 Cutlass Supremes and the like whenever I see it. The Twin Globe livery was great and the Twin Stripe livery was fantastic, but IMO their last scheme just looks bad. The gold, the font....

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