SIA CEO Somewhat Less Positive About A380

travelhound · Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:59 pm

In another Flightglobal article SIA's CEO casts doubt about the A380 in its fleet stating it "would like it to be better".

I know this another provocative A380 thread, but can we please discuss the topic raised by the article.

The main points I take from the article are:

1) The A380 in the SIA fleet might not be the most ideal aircraft.
2) SIA have a need for ULH aircraft to meet market demands in the USA and Europe.
3) SIA's Singapore hub is geographically disadvantaged for servicing these markets.
4) Singapore is focusing on the Southeast Asia and Southwest Pacific markets.
5) The 777-300ER is "currently" a great plane in the SIA fleet.
6) SIA have ordered 70 A350's.

http://www.flightglobal.com/intervie...year/15/goh-choon-phong/interview/

Travelhound

Prost · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:09 pm

I think the A380 in its present form is a terrific plane for SQ 15 years ago. Unfortunately, in the present day, SQ is battling the ME3, a world economy that hasn't rebounded as robustly for the middle class as past recoveries, and as noted, geographic challenges. If I'm not mistaken, SQ depreciates their aircraft on a 12 year cycle, at which point they'll be able to park, sell, or dispose of their A380s at their discretion.

I imagine Airbus is quite satisfied to furnish SQ with as many A350s as will fit their needs, and I sense there might be room for a 778 order at the top end of their route structure, distance wise.

The A380 is still a great aircraft, but I can understand SQ's needs may have changed since they first ordered it. This may also be a gentle nudge to Airbus that the current A380 won't fit in their future fleet needs, but perhaps a NEO might.

nighthawk · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
The main points I take from the article are:

1) The A380 in the SIA fleet might not be the most ideal aircraft.

I think you are putting words in his mouth here. At no point did he say that, in fact he said the exact opposite: "Our experience with the A380 is generally good". All he said is that he want's Airbus to try and reduce fuel consumption by 1-3% on the remaining 5 aircraft they are due to take delivery of. And why wouldn't he. Fuel is their biggest cost, so of course he is going to want that bill reduced as much as possible.

TC957 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Sounds to be like a hurry-up to Airbus that they should get a move-on with the 380neo since early-build SQ 380's will be retiring in about 5 yrs time if not sooner, given SQ's desire to have a fleet under 12 yrs old.

phxa340 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:26 pm

I don't think a CEO pushing better fuel burn on an aircraft is unique to the A380. I think every CEO would love to have 1-3% improvement in SFC for every aircraft.

This is the first public statement I have heard though that doesn't praise the A380 , even though he does go on to say some customers go out of their way to book on an A380.

frigatebird · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:31 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 1):
This may also be a gentle nudge to Airbus that the current A380 won't fit in their future fleet needs, but perhaps a NEO might.

Well, as I read it, they want fuel burn improvements on their current A380s. Improvements on the 5 new ones, and those being retrofitted on the 19 they already have. It seems they're not ready to jump on-board an A380neo yet, perhaps as a result of the ME3 competition. Too early to judge if this huge kind of capex is going to have a decent RoI I suppose.

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
SIA have a need for ULH aircraft to meet market demands in the USA and Europe.

And are pushing both Airbus and Boeing, so this why the A359LR has popped up again

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
The 777-300ER is "currently" a great plane in the SIA fleet.

And they are looking at the 777X and A350-1000 as potential replacement. Personally, I believe the A350-1000 has the edge, SQ has conversion rights on the A359s on order and also options for more A350s.

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
SIA have ordered 70 A350's.

Which, along with 30 787-10s, will replace 29 77E's and 32 A333s. That leaves 39 A350s for expansion? Quite a lot, IMO. And SQ hasn't really been growing the past years. So I wouldn't be surprised to see part of the 70 A350s on order converted to -1000s, and perhaps (if Airbus launches it) to A359LR's.

BaconButty · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:31 pm

Do you spend your whole week looking for anything that can be spun into a negative for the A380? Why not quote the relevant part:

Quote:
“Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better. We have five more A380s coming from 2017 onwards, and plan to make the aircraft configurations and so forth even more efficient, which would be a great help to us.”

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
The main points I take from the article are:

1) The A380 in the SIA fleet might not be the most ideal aircraft.

The main point I take from the article is:
1) They're looking to add more seats

dennys · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:45 pm

The 747-800 should have been The right plane for range and capacity

jfk777 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:47 pm

Sounds as if the A380 will be replaced by smaller planes like an A350-1000 or a 777-9. IF SIA does ditch their older A380 and only keep a few for LHR they will need a plane in the next biggest class, the 777-9 is that plane. 747-8 could be too but doubtful SIA would order them. The A380 may just be too big for even SIA.

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
The A380 in the SIA fleet might not be the most ideal aircraft.

Except that's not what he said. The CEO stated:

Quote:
“Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better. We have five more A380s coming from 2017 onwards, and plan to make the aircraft configurations and so forth even more efficient, which would be a great help to us.”

And:

Quote:
He says SIA would like Airbus to squeeze more fuel efficiency from the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines of its five incoming A380s, perhaps in the range of 1-3%. “They are working to see how much more they can achieve in terms of efficiency.”

All he wants is a bit more fuel efficiency.

Airlines ask for aircraft improvements all the time.

Stitch · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting dennys (Reply 7):
The 747-800 should have been The right plane for range and capacity.

Shortly after Lufthansa placed their order for 20, at the time CEO Chew Choon Seng explicitly dismissed the 747-8 as an option for SQ, stating "I think that aircraft is based fundamentally on an airframe that is already 37 years old".

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
Sounds as if the A380 will be replaced by smaller planes like an A350-1000 or a 777-9. IF SIA does ditch their older A380 and only keep a few for LHR they will need a plane in the next biggest class, the 777-9 is that plane. 747-8 could be too but doubtful SIA would order them. The A380 may just be too big for even SIA.

This is not about capacity issues, SQ is just asking for a bit more fuel efficiency.

j1960amme · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:07 pm

Karel:

> Except that's not what he said. The CEO stated:
>
> Quote:
> “Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better.
> We have five more A380s coming from 2017 onwards, and plan to make the aircraft
> configurations and so forth even more efficient, which would be a great help to us.”
> And:
> Quote:
> He says SIA would like Airbus to squeeze more fuel efficiency from the Rolls-Royce
> Trent 900 engines of its five incoming A380s, perhaps in the range of 1-3%. “They are
> working to see how much more they can achieve in terms of efficiency.”
>
> All he wants is a bit more fuel efficiency.

Of all people, I would have expected better from you. You have omitted the really interesting bit, which substantially changes the tenor of your excerpt above:

"Other tweaks, such as configuration and material changes, are also possible. SIA would prefer any fuel-saving tweaks for the five new aircraft to be applicable for its existing 19 A380s. ***Goh hints that SIA COULD PARE BACK ITS A380 fleet if the retrofit does not take place.***" (Emphasis added, but text is exactly as quoted in the article.)

“We would like them to look at how to [improve the fuel burn]. Whatever it is, we still have this fleet of 19. These first five new A380s, which are on lease, could actually be released if we choose to. We will make a decision later on about extending them or when to release them.”

This quote demonstrates that the article title accurately reflects the stated words of the Singapore CEO, and does indeed cast somewhat cold water on SIA's view of the current A380 offering.

~ J1960

airzim · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):The A380 in the SIA fleet might not be the most ideal aircraft.
Except that's not what he said. The CEO stated:

Quote:“Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better. We have five more A380s coming from 2017 onwards, and plan to make the aircraft configurations and so forth even more efficient, which would be a great help to us.”
And:

Quote:He says SIA would like Airbus to squeeze more fuel efficiency from the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines of its five incoming A380s, perhaps in the range of 1-3%. “They are working to see how much more they can achieve in terms of efficiency.”
All he wants is a bit more fuel efficiency.

Airlines ask for aircraft improvements all the time.

I think you need to read more into these statements, not less.

CEOs, as a general rule, are cheerleaders and very rarely give anything less than unadulterated praise for the products, services, etc., that constitutes their company. You never want to publically make statements that sound like you or your company made the wrong decision on something. A statement like "generally good" is a very negative endorsement in executive speak.

I guess the real question is given hindsight, would they still have ordered the aircraft? "Generally good" to me sound like the A380 might not make the cut.

sassiciai · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:12 pm

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
In another Flightglobal article SIA's CEO casts doubt about the A380 in its fleet stating it "would like it to be better".

I know this another provocative A380 thread, but can we please discuss the topic raised by the article.

Well, you already have well-established views on the A380, so it's not much of a surprise to read this twist on facts, where you have somehow turned good actual comments into mythical negative ones. I think that the mods might do well to delete this thread. If you really want it to continue, I strongly urge you to amend the thread title, removing the word "less", then it would be a better summary of the facts that you yourself then present. As is, it is - in your own words - another provocative A380 thread!

What on earth are you trying to prove (beyond what most of us can determine for ourselves) with illogical and inaccurate spin like this?

ScottB · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
All he said is that he want's Airbus to try and reduce fuel consumption by 1-3% on the remaining 5 aircraft they are due to take delivery of.

Well, he also says that their first five A380s, which are on lease from Doric, could be released. So I think there's a bit of quiet pressure on Airbus to make the improvements available for retrofitting to the older aircraft -- rather than having five difficult-to-lease A380s sitting in a desert somewhere. This is meaningful, IMO, as it would impact lessor confidence in the type and potentially bump up lease rates on new aircraft if it appears that residual value after twelve years would be impaired.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
And they are looking at the 777X and A350-1000 as potential replacement. Personally, I believe the A350-1000 has the edge, SQ has conversion rights on the A359s on order and also options for more A350s.

I'm not sure I agree with you about the A350-1000 having the edge -- primarily because the 777-8X is planned to have longer range and Goh does express an interest in restarting non-stop service to the continental U.S.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 14):
it's not much of a surprise to read this twist on facts, where you have somehow turned good actual comments into mythical negative ones.

It's not a twist on facts, and it is taken verbatim from the article. When one compares the statement "The 777-300ER is a great aircraft at this point of time" to "Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better" there is a fairly clear difference in enthusiasm between "great...at this point in time" and "generally good, but we would like it to be better."

I view the "at this point in time" qualifier for the 777-300ER to refer to the upcoming availability of the A350-1000 and 777X which will both offer even better economics.

[Edited 2015-07-15 07:32:37]

einsteinboricua · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 13):
"Generally good" to me sound like the A380 might not make the cut.

Same here. If you get something that is "generally good" but "would like it to be better", I'd get the impression that it's not exactly the best out there and/or is not meeting all of your expectations. The term "generally good" is what casts doubt. It's one thing to declare it "outstanding" and wanting to improve it even more (you're using a positive note and seek to build on it); it's another to say it's generally good (which sounds like "meh...it can be better...").

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
Well, he also says that their first five A380s, which are on lease from Doric, could be released.

It has always been my understanding that the remaining 5 A380's on order will replace the first 5 A380's in the current fleet.

ec99 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:25 pm

After reading the article, I noticed that the more controversial lines are not quotes from the CEO but rather statements by the journalist. Examples include “The chief executive is somewhat less positive about the other mainstay of SIA’s long-haul fleet, the A380” and “Goh hints that SIA could pare back its A380 fleet if the retrofit does not take place.”

So I think both sides have arguments. For the pro-A380 side, the CEO didn’t actually say anything particularly negative about the plane. However, the journalist interviewing him seemed to infer that he was less than thrilled with the plane. To me, this seems to come down to credibility and how much weight do you give to the interviewer (whose name is not even provided). In my opinion, the truth probably lies somewhere in between the two.

tortugamon · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:34 pm

If we look at the comments about the 77W we hear: “The 777-300ER is a great aircraft at this point of time,” he says. “The 777X is not looking at delivery until early 2020-2021, which is still some way off. But for now the 777-300ER is great equipment for us to do long-haul.”

Certainly the comments about the A380: "“Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better. "....are considered less positive?

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
It seems they're not ready to jump on-board an A380neo yet

I get that impression too. I was thinking they would be a launch customer with EK.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
Personally, I believe the A350-1000 has the edge, SQ has conversion rights on the A359s on order and also options for more A350s.

I think so too depending on what they do with the 781s/78Xs (I am trying out the new code to see how I like it

). If those go to scoot where they really do make sense for regional flying but the number seems high, then I could see the 70-A359s just going to A333s/77E replacement leaving an unaccounted for 77W.

If the A380neo does not fit their needs for the entire fleet then I think that may change things. We will have to see what neo comes to fruition.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
I'm not sure I agree with you about the A350-1000 having the edge -- primarily because the 777-8X is planned to have longer range and Goh does express an interest in restarting non-stop service to the continental U.S.

I see this ULH fleet as being a niche fleet of ~10 aircraft at the most. I can see two routes, maybe three. There are still a lot of 77Ws to replace and I think the A351 will be brought on to replace some of that fleet.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 17):
It has always been my understanding that the remaining 5 A380's on order will replace the first 5 A380's in the current fleet.

Interesting, so keeping the leases may actually be a positive sign rather than the retirement being negative one. Good catch.

tortugamon

PacificBeach · Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:46 pm

Not surprisingly, another misleading thread by the usual suspects with agenda.

I don't think they would have chosen to introduce all new first and business class products if they didn't like to plane or they were planning to phase them out in the future.

TheSonntag · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:01 pm

I wonder what lasts longer - production of the A380 or Airliners.net A380 bashing threads.

I am sure when the last A380 is flown to the desert, the pilots fly back in a NW DC9.

GavinSharp · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:09 pm

Regardless of how much you trust the editorializing from the journalist (seems like not much of a stretch to me given the quotes), I think a couple of things are clear from the quotes themselves:
- he is less enthusiastic about the A380 as currently configured/performing than the 77W
- he is trying to push Airbus to improve current-gen A380 fuel-burn

Can we at least all agree on those two?

jacobin777 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 19):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
It seems they're not ready to jump on-board an A380neo yet

I get that impression too. I was thinking they would be a launch customer with EK.

I believe SQ would order a number of A380NEO's if it becomes available.

Now will they order the B77X, that is the question.

I think SQ will convert some of their A359XWB orders to the A350JXWB (maybe 15-20).

I also thought that the B787-10 was going to Scoot and not mainline SQ.

Stitch · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting GavinSharp (Reply 22):
...he is less enthusiastic about the A380 as currently configured/performing than the 77W

And yet SQ management has also stated in the past how the economics of the A380 are superior to the 777-300ER on the routes where SQ have operated both types of equipment.

mercure1 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:15 pm

I don't think we will see SQ enlarge its A380 fleet or atleast existing A380 configuration. At last years investor briefing it was very clear SQ did not view capacity as the priority but instead spoke about opportunity smaller aircraft like A350 would provide it with basis for frequency and better manage fares in its longhaul network.

About the A380 in general, bottom line its a niche aircraft. Works only in certain business cases and unfortunately for Airbus not widely applicable.

tortugamon · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
I also thought that the B787-10 was going to Scoot and not mainline SQ.

They physically transferred the 787 orders over to Scoot but SIA still holds the orders for the 787-10. There is not much incentive for them to transfer them before they have to though so it could just be a matter of time.

I personally believe that if Scoot needs them, they will get them because of their commonality but SQ will have zero problem incorporating them as well as they have a fleet of 777s and the 787-10 will have pilot commonality and they share maintenance anyway I believe so it would not be too difficult even for a small fleet. Its a great aircraft for the dozens and dozens of regional flights SQ flies.

tortugamon

SKAirbus · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:17 pm

Just sounds like another anti-Airbus article by Flightglobal. Probably one of the most biased aviation publications out there.

BaconButty · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 19):
Certainly the comments about the A380: "“Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better. "....are considered less positive?

Well, if you restrict to direct citations, what he specifically says could be better is SIA's cabin utilization could be better. Or at least that's what I assume he means by "Aircraft configurations" and "Changed Densities". And even then he balances that with the fact that passengers prefer the A380 and will go out of their way to fly it.

The other stuff is largely inferred by the interviewer, and seems to be a request to RR for PIPs and specifically ones that can be retrofitted across his entire fleet. We know the pips are coming, they were the driver for EK to switch engine supplier, but I take this as a reminder to RR not to forget their existing customers and to focus on retrofittable enhancements.

Obviously I am talking about his references to the CEO - reading the tea leaves regarding the NEO, at least in this interview, would be a mugs game.

TheSonntag · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 25):
At last years investor briefing it was very clear SQ did not view capacity

There are so many LHR slots...

IslandRob · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting EC99 (Reply 18):
After reading the article, I noticed that the more controversial lines are not quotes from the CEO but rather statements by the journalist. Examples include “The chief executive is somewhat less positive about the other mainstay of SIA’s long-haul fleet, the A380” and “Goh hints that SIA could pare back its A380 fleet if the retrofit does not take place.”

But, to be fair, the most positive statement regarding the A380 ("the A380 is very popular with passengers") also came from the journalist, and not from the CEO. Selectively believing only the positive comments from the journalist while ignoring the negative comments constitute fuzzy logic. I'm not saying you yourself are doing this, but that appears to be the case with others on this thread. Regards. -ir

Revelation · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
All he said is that he want's Airbus to try and reduce fuel consumption by 1-3% on the remaining 5 aircraft they are due to take delivery of. And why wouldn't he. Fuel is their biggest cost, so of course he is going to want that bill reduced as much as possible.

Since if nothing else we all agree he wants more efficient engines, is there any plans for an engine PIP for the Trent 900, one that can be retrofitted to existing engines?

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
I think you are putting words in his mouth here.

Perhaps, but the section of the article used the words "somewhat less positive" so perhaps the thread starter is echoing those words?

Ref:

Quote:

“The 777-300ER is a great aircraft at this point of time,” he says. “The 777X is not looking at delivery until early 2020-2021, which is still some way off. But for now the 777-300ER is great equipment for us to do long-haul.” He adds that both the 777X and the A350-1000 are candidates for SIA’s eventual replacement of its -300ERs.
A380 experience

The chief executive is somewhat less positive about the other mainstay of SIA’s long-haul fleet, the A380.

“Our experience with the A380 is generally good, but we would like it to be better. We have five more A380s coming from 2017 onwards, and plan

So I feel if anything the thread starter is picking up on the reporter's spin of the CEO's words. It's up to us to decide if we accept that spin or not.

Quoting airzim (Reply 13):
CEOs, as a general rule, are cheerleaders and very rarely give anything less than unadulterated praise for the products, services, etc., that constitutes their company. You never want to publically make statements that sound like you or your company made the wrong decision on something. A statement like "generally good" is a very negative endorsement in executive speak.

I agree with your interpretation, especially in the context of first describing 777-300ER as a great aircraft then A380-800 as a generally good aircraft.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
Well, he also says that their first five A380s, which are on lease from Doric, could be released. So I think there's a bit of quiet pressure on Airbus to make the improvements available for retrofitting to the older aircraft -- rather than having five difficult-to-lease A380s sitting in a desert somewhere. This is meaningful, IMO, as it would impact lessor confidence in the type and potentially bump up lease rates on new aircraft if it appears that residual value after twelve years would be impaired.

I agree with your interpretation especially because he talks about the new A380s being used to introduce new services yet leaves the fate of the older A380s unresolved.

GavinSharp · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting IslandRob (Reply 30):

But, to be fair, the most positive statement regarding the A380 ("the A380 is very popular with passengers") also came from the journalist, and not from the CEO

He was paraphrasing the CEO from the interview, the full quote from the article is "Goh points out that the A380 is very popular with passengers". That kind of editing is needed to make a sensible article that's more concise than a transcript.

IslandRob · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting GavinSharp (Reply 32):
That kind of editing is needed to make a sensible article that's more concise than a transcript.

Agreed - that's the job of journalists, including the one responsible for the article under discussion. It seems to me he did his job adequately in reporting the pros and cons of the A380, as viewed by the SQ CEO. -ir

[Edited 2015-07-15 08:45:48]

GavinSharp · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):

And yet SQ management has also stated in the past how the economics of the A380 are superior to the 777-300ER on the routes where SQ have operated both types of equipment.

I'm not familiar with that quote (i.e. who said it and when), do you have a reference? It's not necessarily inconsistent with "CEO currently overall more enthusiastic about 77W than A380", just perhaps in a different context. In any case, it's very possible that the "less enthusiastic about A380" read I got from the article is just a bargaining tactic for the "wants Airbus to improve the A380" motive.

(And lest I be labeled an "A380 basher", I really don't have any emotional attachment either way here, I love the A380 and all other planes as an airliner enthusiast.

)

LAXintl · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:42 pm

Keep in mind the SIA groups business model is changing.

SQ is no longer dominates the regions in 6th freedom traffic as it once used to. SQ is also not growing having essentially continued to stay flat for many years as the growth in the group comes from Silk, Scoot and Tiger.

Bottom line is SQ is now living a business environment very different then when it first ordered the A380 and company continues to warn about the challenging outlook it sees.
So it would be natural of the company to view the A380 in different light today then it did a decade ago.

justloveplanes · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:47 pm

This article points to the most likely future for the A380 from my point of view. An aggressive PIP and weight reduction program. Evolution not revolution.

Boeing778X · Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 27):
Just sounds like another anti-Airbus article by Flightglobal. Probably one of the most biased aviation publications out there.

*COUGH COUGH* Leeham *COUGH*

Revelation · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Keep in mind the SIA groups business model is changing.

I agree, and the article surely emphasizes that as well.

Quote:

“If you look back five to seven years, you already see the emergence of competition on the full-service side, including the Gulf carriers, and also the LCC segment,” says Goh. “When we looked at these developments, it became clear that this was not just an evolution of traffic, but a structural change in the industry... It was clear that we would need to look at how we responded to those new challenges.”

IslandRob · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:02 pm

Can someone please help me understand this quote from Mr. Goh, the SQ CEO?:

"These first five new A380s, which are on lease, could actually be released if we choose to. We will make a decision later on about extending them or when to release them."

Is he referring to aircraft already in the SQ fleet, or future deliveries? Regards. -ir

[Edited 2015-07-15 09:04:47]

GavinSharp · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting IslandRob (Reply 39):
Is he referring to aircraft already in the SQ fleet, or future deliveries? Regards. -ir

He's referring to the first five A380s SQ received, those already in the fleet.

IslandRob · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting GavinSharp (Reply 40):
Quoting IslandRob (Reply 39):
Is he referring to aircraft already in the SQ fleet, or future deliveries? Regards. -ir

He's referring to the first five A380s SQ received, those already in the fleet.

I thought so. It was his use of the phrase "first five new A380s" that threw me. Thanks. -ir

jacobin777 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 26):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
I also thought that the B787-10 was going to Scoot and not mainline SQ.

They physically transferred the 787 orders over to Scoot but SIA still holds the orders for the 787-10. There is not much incentive for them to transfer them before they have to though so it could just be a matter of time.

OK...thanks

.

Will be interesting to see where the B787-10X's go. I wonder if we'll actually see any in the SQ mainline fleet.

I will respectfully disagree with you however on SQ not transferring them to Scoot.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 27):
Just sounds like another anti-Airbus article by Flightglobal. Probably one of the most biased aviation publications out there.

I guess people missed out on the note Flightglobal is another mouthpiece for Boeing.

tortugamon · Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
I will respectfully disagree with you however on SQ not transferring them to Scoot.

How so? Do you think all 787-10s will be operated by Scoot? It seems like a lot of planes for this relatively new airline. I guess I am not that optimistic that they will grow that fast.

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 28):
Well, if you restrict to direct citations, what he specifically says could be better is SIA's cabin utilization could be better. Or at least that's what I assume he means by "Aircraft configurations" and "Changed Densities".

Improved cabin configurations with different densities could make them like their A380s more, no doubt. But it seems pretty clear to me he is talking about his views on the plane a whole.

No matter, they will clearly take their remaining 5 A380s and then the next big decision will be their A380 replacement beyond the first 5 which looks like it gets real in 2019. Wonder what they will do as I do not expect a neo to be ready by then. Maybe more A380ceos?

tortugamon

BlueShamu330s · Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):

And yet SQ management has also stated in the past how the economics of the A380 are superior to the 777-300ER on the routes where SQ have operated both types of equipment.

Which leads me to think this is another push from another corner for Airbus to evolve and pursue further enhancements to the frame.

Whatever, it all generates heated debate on here.

Rgds

MrHMSH · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
Sounds as if the A380 will be replaced by smaller planes like an A350-1000 or a 777-9.

Maybe, but that's a big loss of capacity to places like LHR, which really do need it.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
47-8 could be too but doubtful SIA would order them.

Nope. The 777X is an indirect admission that the 748 is largely a failure.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
I'm not sure I agree with you about the A350-1000 having the edge -- primarily because the 777-8X is planned to have longer range and Goh does express an interest in restarting non-stop service to the continental U.S.

This is more about the 77W: the 778 (or A359LR) will be useful to the USA, but compared to an A35K, poor on all other routes. You're not going to take the marginally better cargo lifting over the lower cost afforded by an A35K, or a 779.

flybynight · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 13):
I guess the real question is given hindsight, would they still have ordered the aircraft? "Generally good" to me sound like the A380 might not make the cut.

Generally good really sounds like a polite way of saying it hasn't been that great. If he way really positive on the A380 I think he would have expressed that more clearly.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Shortly after Lufthansa placed their order for 20, at the time CEO Chew Choon Seng explicitly dismissed the 747-8 as an option for SQ, stating "I think that aircraft is based fundamentally on an airframe that is already 37 years old".

Good thing they are not looking at 737's since he could give the argument the frame is even older!!

mjoelnir · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting travelhound (Thread starter):
1) The A380 in the SIA fleet might not be the most ideal aircraft.

Were does the CEO say that? .

The advance he is expecting for his 5 new A380 coming in 2017 seems to be exactly what Airbus and RR is also promising Emirates.

The only other thing I can read out of that interview is that he would like the neo. The author says Goh is noncommittal, but than describes what Goh wants to see in the neo.

All in all our weekly A380 bash fest starting of with a wild interpretation of an interview.

warren747sp · Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:49 pm

Everybody in Asia knows that the main reason SIA is no longer profitable is because they fly the A380. The are not the ME3 and will never be able to compete with them given that it is no on anything near a even footing. Bigger is better will no longer works for SIA ever again.!1

mjoelnir · Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:15 pm

Quoting warren747sp (Reply 48):
Everybody in Asia knows that the main reason SIA is no longer profitable is because they fly the A380. The are not the ME3 and will never be able to compete with them given that it is no on anything near a even footing. Bigger is better will no longer works for SIA ever again.!1

Do you have some quote, information with this, or is it just only the usual A380 bashing? To my information SIA has been making a profit both in 2013-2014 and 2014-2015.

http://www.singaporeair.com/pdf/Inve...Results/SGXNET/sgxann-q4fy1415.pdf

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