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KarelXWB
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KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:15 am

- 30x World Business Class (Zodiac seats), 1-2-1 setup
- 48x Economy Comfort, 3-3-3 setup @ 35" pitch
- 216x Economy, 3-3-3 setup @ 31" pitch
- In-flight entertainment with more than 150 movies and 200 TV shows, plus WiFi

Source:
http://news.klm.com/klm-invests-in-c...-and-future-with-new-boeing-787-9/
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
r2rho
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:35 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
- 48x Economy Comfort, 3-3-3 setup @ 35" pitch

Is 8-abreast asking for too much? Same thing goes for the 777's: their Y+ is still 10-abreast instead of 9.
While I am aware that the KL product is a true Y+ and not a J- like other airlines, I think 8-abreast 787's and 9-abreast 777 is the minimum to call it Y+. I am disappointed.
Furthermore, I assume these will be with the new slimmer seats, adding kneeroom at the expense of padding - which doesn't look too comfortable for an 8hr+ flight...
 
tommy1808
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:44 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 1):
Is 8-abreast asking for too much? Same thing goes for the 777's: their Y+ is still 10-abreast instead of 9.

Especially funny if you charge people for charter-abreast Y+ while having better y seats on other airfraft.

Best regards
Thomas

[Edited 2015-07-24 04:45:14]
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
VC10er
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:04 pm

I saw the pictures from the link. The premium seat they show, is that their F or "F-like" product? It does not show the premium cabin layout, do these seats have all aisle access?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
spacecookie
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:07 pm

If you travel as a couple 3x3x3 is a complete no go for me, I don't know why they do this specially when I pay economy plus....
 
jfk777
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:10 pm

The Cathay Pacific J class seat sets the standard again.
 
LondonCity
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:13 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
I saw the pictures from the link. The premium seat they show, is that their F or "F-like" product? It does not show the premium cabin layout, do these seats have all aisle access?

The press release says every J class seat has direct access to the aisle.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 1):
Is 8-abreast asking for too much? Same thing goes for the 777's: their Y+ is still 10-abreast instead of 9.
While I am aware that the KL product is a true Y+ and not a J- like other airlines, I think 8-abreast 787's and 9-abreast 777 is the minimum to call it Y+. I am disappointed.

Yes, I agree with you. Not really sure how you can call a 10 abreast Y seat on a 777 Economy 'comfort' but there you are. KL obviously doesn't see the business case for separate seats for Y+. It's just extra legroom, and not even that much.

Still, you get what you pay for. I will travel to PTY for holiday, and KL was by far the cheapest option. So I decided to pay the extra € 100 for a Y+ seat, was fortunate enough to select one of the very few 2 next together with my wife on row 9 on an 'old' 77W from AMS. The return is on a newer 77W which doesn't have that option, sadly, so decided on an exit row. Not ideal, but still a lot cheaper than going with UA for example, although I would have liked to try their 787-9 for once!

Quoting r2rho (Reply 1):
Furthermore, I assume these will be with the new slimmer seats, adding kneeroom at the expense of padding - which doesn't look too comfortable for an 8hr+ flight...

For an 8 hour flight it's not great, but doable. Afraid though it won't be limited to 8 hour flights though, KL will receive 21 787-9s so pretty sure some will be doing 12-14 hour flights eventually.

This one I found rather strange: "The seats in Economy Class offer passengers extra comfort. The back of the seat can recline 40% further..." That will certainly not improve comfort for the passengers behind! Forget about watching AVOD, good luck trying to reach the toilet if you have a window seat...
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
wingman
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:50 pm

And the Dutch are the largest people on the planet, rough times ahead. It should really be 9X on the 777 and 8X on the 787. That's my new J class and I'd pay for it.
 
kaitak
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 1):
Is 8-abreast asking for too much? Same thing goes for the 777's: their Y+ is still 10-abreast instead of 9.
While I am aware that the KL product is a true Y+ and not a J- like other airlines, I think 8-abreast 787's and 9-abreast 777 is the minimum to call it Y+. I am disappointed.

That was my first reaction as well. 9 abreast in Y is bad enough, but if you pay a premium and still get 9 abreast, that's a bit lousy, but I guess it is consistent with other aircraft in the KLM fleet.

How is KL's Y+ doing anyway?
 
7673mech
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:53 pm

Everytime an interior is discussed the 8, 9 and 10 across debate comes up.
Can we let it go at some point - it isn't changing - never will - here to stay.

On point ... looks like a nice set up.
 
PlaneAdmirer
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 10):
Everytime an interior is discussed the 8, 9 and 10 across debate comes up.
Can we let it go at some point - it isn't changing - never will - here to stay.

Amen.... People won't pay for more comfort and those who will and/or can do. Yes, I know I am steerage, but I also know I am probably going at a minimum a 1000 miles far faster and more comfortably than I could by other means. It only has to be reasonably comfortable.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 10):
Everytime an interior is discussed the 8, 9 and 10 across debate comes up.
Can we let it go at some point - it isn't changing - never will - here to stay.

I agree, but I do wonder sometimes if thinning the armrests in the 9 across configuration will make any difference on the 787.
Life is encrypted, you are modified, Like a virus in a lullaby, Artificial till the day you die, silly programme, You're corrupted
 
YYZAMS
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting spacecookie (Reply 4):

I agree. I will seek out the A330 due to the 2 seats by the windows. I don't know what the big deal about th 787 is, unless awards are given for th amount o people crammed into them. From a spotters perspective it looks so small
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
The Cathay Pacific J class seat sets the standard again.

Never mind that US introduced it first..   

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
That was my first reaction as well. 9 abreast in Y is bad enough, but if you pay a premium and still get 9 abreast, that's a bit lousy, but I guess it is consistent with other aircraft in the KLM fleet.

I believe the premium KL charge over regular Y is minimal compared to Y+ on other carriers like BA.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 12):
I agree, but I do wonder sometimes if thinning the armrests in the 9 across configuration will make any difference on the 787.

That doesn't help with seat width at shoulder height though.
 
zkeoj
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 10):
Everytime an interior is discussed the 8, 9 and 10 across debate comes up.
Can we let it go at some point - it isn't changing - never will - here to stay.
Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 11):
Amen.... People won't pay for more comfort and those who will and/or can do.

Not quite true for this thread - it was about Economy COMFORT, and while I agree that 10 abreast in Y is standard (or will be soon for most airlines) and has been discussed to death, Y+ is a different story. People DO pay a (small) premium for those seats, and still only get 10 abreast on the 777 and 9 abreast on the 787. Even some 10-abreast-Y airlines (such as NZ) have 8 (not even 9!) abreast in Premium Economy....

Cheers
micha
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 14):
That doesn't help with seat width at shoulder height though.

Seems to work for Airbus.
Life is encrypted, you are modified, Like a virus in a lullaby, Artificial till the day you die, silly programme, You're corrupted
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting spacecookie (Reply 4):
I don't know why they do this specially when I pay economy plus.

It's not a separate cabin or degree of service, it's just more pitch.

Quoting wingman (Reply 8):
And the Dutch are the largest people on the planet

"tall" yes, "large" not at all.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
tommy1808
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 14):
I believe the premium KL charge over regular Y is minimal compared to Y+ on other carriers like BA.

It often is a more than the 12% more space you get. Good for KL, bad for the Customer since more space is really all you get.
My worst seat ever was a KLM economy comfort seat on a 747. Being the first row, those monster armrests to hold table and IFE screen made economy "comfort" into the least wide seat I've ever seen. Well, the fact that someone puked in front of my feetime probably made it worse. Or maybe better since it smelled like fresh coffee a lot....  
On the 9-abreast 777 Economy comfort was exactly what I am looking for when traveling private.

MMMH... 800 Eur on a CZ A380 or 1600 Eur in a 10 abreast KL 777 in Economy "Comfort". Well, that's not to difficult a choice to make.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
TomFoolery
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:31 am

I will fly KL if they are using one of their A330s, but I tend to avoid AF/KL 777 because of the seat layout. The AF380 is pretty nice as well.

Let's not forget that it was not until fairly recently that KL Business class (Europe Select) was 3-3 seating on a 737 and no middle seat free. It was Y with a bit more legroom, and fancy plates, forks and glasses (meals served on flights over 1.5 hours). Europe select was a poor product back in the day.

Tom
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scbriml
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:04 pm

9-across in premium economy on a 787?   

Epic fail.   
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MIflyer12
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 14):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
The Cathay Pacific J class seat sets the standard again.

Never mind that US introduced it first..   

Hmm - Delta 777-200LR delivered February 2008? That's more than a year before US started getting A332s with Contour seats.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:47 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 21):
Hmm - Delta 777-200LR delivered February 2008? That's more than a year before US started getting A332s with Contour seats.

N701DN was delivered in February 2008, however it has the standard herringbone seating where pax face the aisle. DL uses the "CX seat" on 744s and A330s.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 20):
9-across in premium economy on a 787?

It's not a real premium economy product indeed, hence they call it economy comfort.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Armodeen
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:10 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
- 48x Economy Comfort, 3-3-3 setup

"Comfort" lol. Rarely has a name been so ironic.

J looks good. Glad to see they went with what is clearly the best J setup out there at the moment.

[Edited 2015-07-26 11:11:34]
 
Viscount724
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:11 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 20):
9-across in premium economy on a 787?

Epic fail

It's not premium economy which is a separate class of service. The KL economy comfort product is like UA and DL Y+ which uses standard Y class seating but a few inches of additional seat pitch, more seat recline, and seating at the front of the cabin to speed up boarding and deplaning. Far more passengers are willing to pay a small surcharge for that type of product than for a true premium economy product where the are is often twice (or more) the Y class fare.
 
r2rho
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:29 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 14):
I believe the premium KL charge over regular Y is minimal compared to Y+ on other carriers like BA.

Indeed, as I stated further above, KL has a true Y+, not a watered-down business class like the premium eco on LH, and has some of the most attractive Y+ fares.
Nevertheless, I insist on asking for 8/9 abreast 787/777 for Y+. The premium eco on AF, which is a different service class and much more expensive, is 8-abreast on their 777's. So the "more space only, but no other perks" Y+ on KL should be 9-abreast IMO.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:52 am

The seat map is now available too:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/24ewbqa.jpg

Click for a larger version.

Source:
http://tinyurl.com/nreoj2k
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 20):9-across in premium economy on a 787?

Epic fail
It's not premium economy which is a separate class of service. The KL economy comfort product is like UA and DL Y+ which uses standard Y class seating but a few inches of additional seat pitch, more seat recline, and seating at the front of the cabin to speed up boarding and deplaning. Far more passengers are willing to pay a small surcharge for that type of product than for a true premium economy product where the are is often twice (or more) the Y class fare.

This is true. And what I pay for a KL flight with Economy Comfort with 34" and an exit seat on the return leg is still 25% less than for a standard Y seat with 31" pitch in a UA 787.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 26):
Nevertheless, I insist on asking for 8/9 abreast 787/777 for Y+.

I sympathise with you, but have directed your demands to the right people at KLM? Not sure they'll take notice of it here on this forum.
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jetblue1965
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RE: KLM Reveals 787-9 Cabin

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:12 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
The Cathay Pacific J class seat sets the standard again.

US Air had that seat before CX IIRC

But in any case, 16" IFE screen is more like "par" for the course instead of actually state of the art. JAL is offering 23" TVs for J.

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