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TheSonntag
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Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:25 pm

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaf...tartet-neues-preismodell-1.2580661

I havent found it here yet - if no news, just delete.

According to several German sources like the source above, LH will introduce a new pricing system for european flights from october on. The system is more or less the same like on germanwings, there will be three classes, light, classic and flex in economy.

On light, no more free seat reservation and no checked luggage.

With other words, LH will copy the pricing system seen on 4U. Another step towards the race to the bottom.
 
rta
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:38 pm

As a consumer, I dislike when there are so many options for what I view as an economy seat. Hopefully the website will clearly state the benefits for each class of economy service.

That being said, this seems like the new trend and BA and DL are already doing this with their respect HBO and Basic Economy fares, for example.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 1):
As a consumer, I dislike when there are so many options

Yeah, freedom of choice really blows. The government ought to do something about that.   
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
StrandedAtMKG
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Yeah, freedom of choice really blows. The government ought to do something about that.  

It makes the pricing structure needlessly complex with little to no benefit for the customer. I flew DL Y+ DTW-PHX and PHX-MSP last week, and the sum total of my "Comfort+" benefits was a free bloody mary and a bag of Sun Chips. There wasn't anything more "comfortable" about it, but it's a whole new level of complexity (and a whole new stream of revenue) for the airline.
 
rta
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Yeah, freedom of choice really blows. The government ought to do something about that.   

Way to quote me out of context.   
 
debonair
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
Another step towards the race to the bottom.

I don't think so...
Let's be honest - why do I have to pay for a non-stop one-way flight (e.g. FRA-HAM) TWICE as much as a return flight or a 1-stop re-routing?!   

I think these fares structures are ridiculous nowadays!
 
Unflug
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting rta (Reply 1):
Hopefully the website will clearly state the benefits for each class of economy service.

It's not yet on the Lufthansa website, but they have it on their page for corporate customers. Looks rather transparent to me, I actually like it:

http://www.ppb-infolounge.de/en/news...nsa-groups-new-european-fares.html
 
anstar
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:40 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
With other words, LH will copy the pricing system seen on 4U.

BA have a similar pricing structure.

Hand baggage Only, Economy and Economy Flexible.

I think it is pretty transparent. I wonder how long before AF/KL also fall in line with one way pricing on shorthaul.
 
richcandy
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:57 am

Quoting debonair (Reply 5):
I don't think so...
Let's be honest - why do I have to pay for a non-stop one-way flight (e.g. FRA-HAM) TWICE as much as a return flight or a 1-stop re-routing?!   

Agreed!
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:23 am

LH subsidiary Brussels Airlines has done exactly this beginning of last year, and they have booked excellent results with it: double digit growth rates for the second year in a row now, outgrowing even ryanair in Belgium AND substantially improving their financial result in the process on top: from a near tripple digit loss, to a profit situation this year, despite being faced with a 5 plane base of FR at their home base BRU, as well as an 13 plane base at nearby CRL. Nit to mention the vueling base at BRU or all the easyjet planes flying in and our of BRU. No wonder LH (and soon also OS and LX) will start doing the same when they see this success. This really is the way to make low cost competitors just another competitor, often of lower quality for near identical entry pricing, thus making them irrelevant in the eyes of millions of new customers.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:23 am

Quoting rta (Reply 1):
As a consumer, I dislike when there are so many options for what I view as an economy seat. Hopefully the website will clearly state the benefits for each class of economy service.

I have a good friend who is a salesman, his motto is confusion = margin (profit) all the options confuse consumers and lead to them making sub optimal choices.
BV
 
Skyeurope
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:56 am

Quoting debonair (Reply 5):

Well, in my opinion it's just yet another increase in prices. Flights that had an all in starting price of 99€ (e.g. domestic flights) are now up to 129€ incl. baggage.
While it might be similar to the 4U model, the press announcement nowhere mentions, there will be oneway fares available, it's just listing round trip starting prices.
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:03 am

Dear Lufty,
once you will be exactly as FR & Co , tell me why should we chose you again?
With Best Regards,

an ex-faithful customer, (booking HG this morning).
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:07 am

If LH doesn't take this opportunity to introduce one way fares then, frankly, they deserve to suffer the financial consequences. What kind of outdated model charges more for one way than return, after twenty years of this fro LCCs?
 
kalvado
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 7):

Hand baggage Only, Economy and Economy Flexible.

For "hand baggage only" - is there an option of paying for checked bag later? Plans may change - and adding extra baggage is not an unreasonable change from my perspective.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:34 pm

May be it has worked for Brussels, but Lufthansa was considered for many as a 5 star airline for many years, not to have at least one free bag and strict controls sucks. Even Ryanair moved away from such strict hand luggage rules and this is what people really want. If I pay for a Lufthansa ticket, which is ALWAYS more expensive than Ryanair, I expect free luggage at least. Lufthansa could win business with quality instead of a low cost concept. Why on earth they still operate the Lufthansa brand if as a matter of fact everything in the group of companies use a low cost concept. What is the difference between Lufthansa and Eurowings ? In my opinion also Swiss and Austrian will suffer by stealing their own identity and being forced for implementing the Lufthansa way.

The newest idea, to charge their most loyal corporate travel agencies the GDS fee is the most stupid thing they could have done. These agencies are selling the most expensive business travel tickets and Lufthansa is profiting hugely.
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
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DL747400
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:44 pm

Quoting StrandedAtMKG (Reply 3):
I flew DL Y+ DTW-PHX and PHX-MSP last week, and the sum total of my "Comfort+" benefits was a free bloody mary and a bag of Sun Chips. There wasn't anything more "comfortable" about it, but it's a whole new level of complexity (and a whole new stream of revenue) for the airline.


I think you missed several key items in your description of the benefits you received, such as the Sky Priority boarding, dedicated overhead bin space, extra legroom, greater seat recline, and complimentary premium entertainment on Delta Studio. You purchased a whole package of benefits, yet you chose to mention only the cocktail and snack. You may have chosen not to utilize the other benefits. If so, that is your right, but the other benefits you neglected to mention are real and meaningful perks for most customers.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

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Unflug
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:40 pm

Quoting kalvado (Reply 14):
For "hand baggage only" - is there an option of paying for checked bag later? Plans may change - and adding extra baggage is not an unreasonable change from my perspective.

Yes you can, see my link above or this PDF:

http://www.ppb-infolounge.de/files/_...nded%20Fares/Tarife_Tabelle_EN.pdf

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 15):
If I pay for a Lufthansa ticket, which is ALWAYS more expensive than Ryanair, I expect free luggage at least. Lufthansa could win business with quality instead of a low cost concept.

I don't see what's wrong with the new concept. For 89 € you just get the flight if you want that and you have to pay for seat reservation or luggage if you need it later. For 129 € you have that included. What's wrong with giving the customers a clear choice?

I also like that rebooking and refunds are now free of charge for all business class fares.
 
A342
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting Unflug (Reply 17):
I don't see what's wrong with the new concept. For 89 € you just get the flight if you want that and you have to pay for seat reservation or luggage if you need it later. For 129 € you have that included. What's wrong with giving the customers a clear choice?

Nothing in principle, except:

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 11):
Well, in my opinion it's just yet another increase in prices. Flights that had an all in starting price of 99€ (e.g. domestic flights) are now up to 129€ incl. baggage.

Not useful when competing with LCCs. Look at how Vueling and Easyjet are expanding at MUC, for example...
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:22 pm

The biggest turnoff is, and that's why they will loose a lot of passengers is that even if you are a LH Senator ( Star Gold ) your extra check-in policy doesn't count ! So if a SEN who had to fly the cheapest economy class within Europe as the company requests he can not check in a bag for free ( even though it stats in the star gold rules 1 additional bag free) !!!
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
flightsimer
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting StrandedAtMKG (Reply 3):
It makes the pricing structure needlessly complex with little to no benefit for the customer. I flew DL Y+ DTW-PHX and PHX-MSP last week, and the sum total of my "Comfort+" benefits was a free bloody mary and a bag of Sun Chips. There wasn't anything more "comfortable" about it, but it's a whole new level of complexity (and a whole new stream of revenue) for the airline.
Quoting DL747400 (Reply 16):
I think you missed several key items in your description of the benefits you received, such as the Sky Priority boarding, dedicated overhead bin space, extra legroom, greater seat recline, and complimentary premium entertainment on Delta Studio. You purchased a whole package of benefits, yet you chose to mention only the cocktail and snack. You may have chosen not to utilize the other benefits. If so, that is your right, but the other benefits you neglected to mention are real and meaningful perks for most customers.

I was just going to say the same thing... And to add to your list, free internet as well with Y+.

Flown twice now this year for a total of three legs and have paid to upgrade each leg. Traveling with a flight bag that has probably $2,000-3,000 worth of electronics and pilot gear in it, its nice to be able to get on early and make sure there is room in the overhead so the bag does not have to be checked.

And if the plane does not have seat back screens, you still have access to all of the free entertainment through any personal device. I streamed the movies through the gogo app on my ipad when I was on the the A319 and MD-88 that did not have seat backs.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting rta (Reply 4):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):Yeah, freedom of choice really blows. The government ought to do something about that.

Way to quote me out of context.

Thing is, I didn't. You had a choice of various fare levels, each with differing options based on price.

You could have taken the opportunity to see what each one offered.

That's having freedom of choice. It's ultimately up to you which selection you make based on what you value.

And somehow you have an issue with that, which I have a hard time understanding.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:51 am

Quoting StrandedAtMKG (Reply 3):
It makes the pricing structure needlessly complex with little to no benefit for the customer

I guess it's just a point of view. Some like it, some don't.

If I go to a restaurant and order a burger, they might only have one option with various toppings included. Others, though, have a whole list of burgers, each with different toppings and different prices. A basic cheeseburger might be $8.99, a bacon cheeseburger $9.99, a specialty burger $10.99, etc. It's certainly easier to order at the place with just one choice, but I'd prefer to eat at the place with more choices.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:25 am

Fewer and fewer reason to fly LH.
 
Aither
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:09 am

It's becoming so complex with now even more airlines not reporting to GDS.
That's why now I use a company paying some guys to select flights for me with my criteria. The deals they find far outweigh their fees. And soon it will be artificial intelligence doing the job.
Never trust the obvious
 
galleypower
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:45 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 23):
Fewer and fewer reason to fly LH.

Why? You still get, regardless of fare, a free drink and a snack. You pay according to your choice and needs. Nothing wrong with that. You can still shop for the best deal and see wether LH or someone else fits best.

What I dont get is, when they (LH) bitch about competition and ME3 they are told to stop whining, stop protectionism and face free market and choice. Now they are reacting and do what everybody else does and its still not right.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:59 am

Quoting galleypower (Reply 25):
What I dont get is, when they (LH) bitch about competition and ME3 they are told to stop whining, stop protectionism and face free market and choice. Now they are reacting and do what everybody else does and its still not right.

        

Exactly, they have started that with 4U and continued with EW and now the 5* Airline gets an updated fare System as well. Which will be good for those living at the hubs, especially FRA which has Little low cost traffic.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
cc2314
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:03 am

I think this is a much up on LHs part.But i guess they understood there is no pleasing everyone.

The complexity/options for short flights seems pointless to me alone.
Deleted
 
Unflug
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 19):
The biggest turnoff is, and that's why they will loose a lot of passengers is that even if you are a LH Senator ( Star Gold ) your extra check-in policy doesn't count ! So if a SEN who had to fly the cheapest economy class within Europe as the company requests he can not check in a bag for free ( even though it stats in the star gold rules 1 additional bag free) !!!

I'm not sure about that, but even if true that problem doesn't seem very relevant to me: flying the cheapes economy class and being Senator sounds a bit like a contradiction. How would I ever accrue enough miles if I always had to take the cheapest fare? And how many Senators actually check in bags anyway, unless it is a long haul flight?

Quoting galleypower (Reply 25):
What I dont get is, when they (LH) bitch about competition and ME3 they are told to stop whining, stop protectionism and face free market and choice. Now they are reacting and do what everybody else does and its still not right.

That is difficult to understand, indeed.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting galleypower (Reply 25):
Why? You still get, regardless of fare, a free drink and a snack. You pay according to your choice and needs. Nothing wrong with that. You can still shop for the best deal and see wether LH or someone else fits best.

Simple because it will be the same as on Eurowings / Germanwings / AB and Condor now. People with oversized carry ons trying to save a few bucks.

So either the same fights on the gate, when the carry on size is enforced or the same fight in the plane when the huge carry on does not fit into the overhead bins and your own small carry on is suddenly flying out of the the bin or smashed into a corner.
 
n729pa
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:56 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 7):
I wonder how long before AF/KL also fall in line with one way pricing on shorthaul

Air France already have one, I've booked a cheap flight over to CDG in a few weeks. I don't think they do it at weekends, only during the week I think.

Swiss have had a hand luggage only fare to GVA (from LHR) for a couple of years now, and I think have just introduced it to ZRH too.

I had a message from Alitalia the other day and from September they're starting a hand luggage only fare too, £92 to FCO.

I tried 4U a month ago for the first time LHR-CGN-LHR and was fairly impressed with them (better than I had expected), but then I had paid for a roll and a seat. Next time I don't think I'd bother.

The down side is that I prefer to pick my own seat, which BA now charge you for, which means the hand luggage fare is the same as the "normal" fare. But for an hour or so it doesn't matter.
 
zkncj
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:34 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
With other words, LH will copy the pricing system seen on 4U. Another step towards the race to the bottom.

Air New Zealand has been doing it since 2010 - on all of there routes up to 10hours (http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/the-choice-is-all-yours).

Just another *A airline joining the LCC club
 
Stratofish
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:57 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 29):
Simple because it will be the same as on Eurowings / Germanwings / AB and Condor now. People with oversized carry ons trying to save a few bucks.

That actually may be the only positive about the introduction of the 'Light' fare. LH has had a one piece (+1 accesory) max 8kg carry on policy for years. However they never enforced it and people walked on board with rediculous amounts of hand luggage. Now the have to start checking weight and dimension of carry on in eco. So us who play by the rules and travel light will no longer be discriminated against.

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
With other words, LH will copy the pricing system seen on 4U. Another step towards the race to the bottom.

We/they are well IN the race to the bottom. And I see us in lap 23 of 50.  
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
TheSonntag
Topic Author
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:10 am

Quoting Unflug (Reply 28):
That is difficult to understand, indeed

Not really. I understand LH needs to watch its costs, but what annoys me is the way LH did that. In the ME 3 or SIA, you at least get the impression that you are welcome on the airline.

In the case of LH, it starts with the boarding. No personnel to take up your luggage in HAM for eco, you need to use a machine. Maybe thats the standard now, but to me this is just showing how little they care about you.

Then the constant reductions of their FF programme. The constant reductions in service. Then the outsourcing to 4U on many routes.

And now this new pricing structure.

It may very well be that all this makes sense. But from a customer point of view, it seems the product is constantly getting worse. I would wish LH would compete more on quality, instead of showing your passengers how little they care about you.
 
lutfi
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:27 am

Seems all very sensible to me. Three pricing tiers is much much simpler than the old rules (Saturday night stays, validity ofx months, advance purchase etc etc)
 
galleypower
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:38 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 33):
It may very well be that all this makes sense. But from a customer point of view, it seems the product is constantly getting worse. I would wish LH would compete more on quality, instead of showing your passengers how little they care about you.

Yes, I know, but it seems times are changing. I cant find it anymore but I just read a survey done by the german hotel and confrence association how customers choose their airline. Over 50% is price driven, about equal 20% each is frequency/network and frequenent flier program and the remaining x% is shared by brand image, service etc. The succes of all the LCCs supports this.

LHs product quality is not bad, actually quite good. Where do you find a better overall! product on short haul in Europe? Long Range is a different story, but quality is still ok. But how ME3 does it is everybodys guess.
 
steman
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:47 am

Quoting galleypower (Reply 35):
LHs product quality is not bad, actually quite good. Where do you find a better overall! product on short haul in Europe? Long Range is a different story, but quality is still ok.

On Short Haul in Europe is really difficult to find differences anymore. All airlines tend to offer the same kind of service and quality. The only differentiator is price, schedule, airports and colours of the interior of either the A320s or 737s they use.
In my opinion LH is not better than the other airlines I have flown in the past two years: AB, IB, BA, AZ. 4U, though I find them all better than Easyjet and Ryanair because of the airport they fly out (I prefer TXL over SXF) and the garish looking interiors or the constant announcements during the flight.
 
Unflug
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 33):
It may very well be that all this makes sense. But from a customer point of view, it seems the product is constantly getting worse. I would wish LH would compete more on quality, instead of showing your passengers how little they care about you.

Funny though, being a customer as well while and seeing the changes as well, I don't see the product getting worse, on the contrary. Probably because I have other priorities...
 
n729pa
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 36):
In my opinion LH is not better than the other airlines

Having flown in Europe mostly BA (from LHR), but also LH, LX, SN, SK, AZ, AF, 4U, EI, IB, KL in the past 2 years, then I would still put LH and LX as being amongst the best in Europe. SK, SN, IB and EI aren't much to write home about. AZ and AF are better than expected. BA are OK, but there's something about their service that is slipping, I can't put my finger on it. But I've always found LH and LX to be very good. I've got a trip on both of them coming up in the next few weeks so I'm looking forward to that.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 20):
And to add to your list, free internet as well with Y+.

Since when does Y+ come with free Wifi?

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 16):
Sky Priority boarding, dedicated overhead bin space, extra legroom, greater seat recline, and complimentary premium entertainment on Delta Studio.

I don't think Y+ gets Sky Priority boarding Zone 1 IIRC. Either way bin space and boarding really have no value when it comes down to it. That's perceived value. The others you state certainly he omitted and 1/2 the time make Y+ worth it. The other half the time FC is marginally more expensive (sometimes cheaper) that the Y+ upgrade.
 
flightsimer
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RE: Lufthansa Introduces New Pricing System

Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 39):

I have had access to wifi on every leg with y+ I have flown this year. To be able to stream the IFE on a tablet you have to be connected to the Wifi. It's just a matter of logging on the gogo app with your seat number and name.

As for boarding it goes elderly/parents with young children, First, Y+/the upper tier sky miles members who may be seated in Y and then normal Y. On my first flight this year, I was the very first person on after the last first first class passenger boarded.

every flight I took I was considering upgrading to First, but Y+ Was always right in the middle between Y and F. I have never seen it more than a F ticket. However, when you consider baggage fees, first could be cheaper if you have more than one checked bag as you get one or two bags free in first.
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Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos