spud757
Topic Author
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:20 pm

Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:02 pm

Why do Virgin group airlines not co-operate together more closely?

VS, VA and VX are loosely connected by Virgin Group shareholding and of course their brand. There must be some route synergies where they can codeshare, co-operate and perhaps share a common Virgin frequent flier programme?

For example VS have stopped flying LHR-HKG-SYD, now terminating in HKG. Coulud / should they work with VA to make the LON-HKG-SYD route viable again on Virgin group metal?

Also VS has a network into the USA. Other than for the DL JV is there not an opportunity to feed to/from VX?

It just seems odd to me that Virgin hasn't capitalised on its own brands in some sort of loose / mini alliance.
 
Irishbean
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:41 am

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:08 pm

I have often thought about this, as it would make great sense, VS for ravel to/ from UK, VX in the US, and then VA to head over to the pacific. They did launch a RTW fare offering sometime ago, but I have never really seen it promoted. To me, as a VS fan, its a big missed opperatuniy.
 
superjeff
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RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:19 pm

Virgin Group is essentially franchising airlines. VA, VS, and VX are three totally separate companies, each licensing the Virgin name. They do cooperate on frequent flyer programs, but not much more (in the US, VA and VS have a deal where VA passengers can access some of VS's Clubhouse Lounges. They operate like three separate airlines because they are three different airlines.
 
nws2002
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RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:22 pm

There were huge concerns by DOT when VX started in the US about foreign ownership and influence. I wonder if that plays any part.
 
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adamblang
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RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:22 pm

Virgin Atlantic has Delta with an ownership stake. Delta probably wouldn't want to increase competition for themselves in the US.

Virgin Australia has Air New Zealand, Singapore, and Etihad with an ownership stake. They probably wouldn't want to strengthen the other Virgins had against their own offerings or their partners' offerings in the Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America markets.

The three different Virgin airlines have very different ownership structures and each of their stakeholders has conflicting interests.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
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Polot
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RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:24 pm

Frankly, with a few exceptions, VX's network is useless for VS with few unique destinations offered that VS doesn't already fly nonstop from London. Which just means a close VX/VS partnership would just be chasing lower yield passengers willing to connect versus flying nonstop. It is also centered primarily on hubs in LAX and SFO- a terrible location to offer much to a European partner.

Delta's much more comprehensive network is more valuable to VS, ownership stakes aside.

[Edited 2015-07-29 11:28:27]
 
anstar
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting spud757 (Thread starter):
For example VS have stopped flying LHR-HKG-SYD, now terminating in HKG. Coulud / should they work with VA to make the LON-HKG-SYD route viable again on Virgin group metal?

Why would Virgin Australia bother with Virgin Atlantic when Virgin Aus already have a JV to europe with Etihad?

Quoting spud757 (Thread starter):
Also VS has a network into the USA. Other than for the DL JV is there not an opportunity to feed to/from VX?

Again, VS have a JV to the USA with Delta so it makes more sense to funnel VS pax on DL as they get to share revenues.

The Virgin branded airlines have very little in common apart from the name. Ie Virgin Australia only has a 10% sharehilding from the Virgin group (ie a miniority)
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5332
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:54 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 4):
Virgin Australia has Air New Zealand, Singapore, and Etihad with an ownership stake. They probably wouldn't want to strengthen the other Virgins had against their own offerings or their partners' offerings in the Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America markets.
Quoting anstar (Reply 6):
Again, VS have a JV to the USA with Delta so it makes more sense to funnel VS pax on DL as they get to share revenues.

Don't forget that VA also has a JV/ATI with DL.
And VX's lack of a network makes it hard to use them when compared to DL. The largest US cities for VS and VA are also Delta hubs (LAX and NYC)
 
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qf789
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RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:04 pm

Under their current CEO VA has moved away from being a LCC to what they describe as a "New World Carrier". Basically offering the passenger the choice of a no frills ticket at one end to a ticket that includes what would be included with a premium carrier in order to compete with QF domestically.
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zkncj
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:24 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 6):
Again, VS have a JV to the USA with Delta so it makes more sense to funnel VS pax on DL as they get to share revenues.

Add to that over 70% of VA is owned by NZ/SQ/EH who all have an seat on the board of VA.

VA Ownership
NZ - 25.9%
EH - 24.94%
SQ - 22.8%

While the 'Virgin Group' only owns 10% of the airline.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 8):

In theory I thought that was a good idea, but they have really blurred the lines. With the latest changes all passengers get free food on domestic flights, but the snacks offered go beyond pathetic to being utterly laughable. In most cases on short haul flights Felxi pax simply get the same snack, which is a big step down from the fairly substantial snack options they were initially offered. Somehow VA have managed to cheapen the experience while nominally upgrading their product.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
DJMEL
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:06 am

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:55 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 8):

Under their current CEO VA has moved away from being a LCC to what they describe as a "New World Carrier". Basically offering the passenger the choice of a no frills ticket at one end to a ticket that includes what would be included with a premium carrier in order to compete with QF domestically.

qf789 - That was the description used under Brett Godfrey when Premium Economy was launched in 2008! VA is now a full service airline with the only differentiate in Service is the Retail Cart on Trans-Tasman service thanks to the Alliance with NZ which has all sorts of options.

Quoting spud757 (Thread starter):

For example VS have stopped flying LHR-HKG-SYD, now terminating in HKG. Coulud / should they work with VA to make the LON-HKG-SYD route viable again on Virgin group metal?

Yes it could well happen - however not likely as VA is tied up with SQ via Asia to Europe or EY via the Middle East.

The main reason they don't co-operate too closely is all about the Main anchor and common owner to all in the Virgin Group - they can not be seen to be too much an influence and the CEO's of the respective companies have to have Citizenship in the Country the Airline is Registered in!

Codesharing is allowed as VA was codesharing on VS200/201 HKG/SYD/HKG until 5 May 2014 when the service ended.

All the Virgin Airlines has recipricol access to each others Lounges for their higher tier Members.

All the Airlines have very different Market Segments and Competitors - ie It has been somewhat interesting to have started work at a low cost carrier that has gone through a massive transformation to compete against one of the oldest and most experienced Airlines that took its eye off the ball for a while there!

I hope this makes it a bit clearer for all.
 
anstar
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting DJMEL (Reply 11):
For example VS have stopped flying LHR-HKG-SYD, now terminating in HKG. Coulud / should they work with VA to make the LON-HKG-SYD route viable again on Virgin group metal?

It was quite telling about the VA/VS relationship when VS flew to Australia. VA only code shared on the SYD-HKG sector. There was no VA codeshare for HKG-LHR as VA were funneling all their LHR pax via AUH with Etihad. It would also cost twice the miles to fly with VS to London as it would to fly EY to London.

Currently VA/VS now have no codeshares.

I can only see them working together again on the LHR-SYD route via AUH... maybe one day VS will partner with EY and fly to AUH and funnel pax to the far east, India and Australia via AUH.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 12):
I can only see them working together again on the LHR-SYD route via AUH... maybe one day VS will partner with EY and fly to AUH and funnel pax to the far east, India and Australia via AUH.

Well that would certainly delight VS's minority shareholder, Delta, wouldn't it!
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Virgin Group Branded Airlines

Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:43 pm

I'm always amazed why VA doesn't fly SYD-HKG on their own. Relying on SIN or AKL for SYD-HKG traffic results in long detours that's rather unattractive.

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