New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 163

ZKOJH · Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:26 am

Well lets start another chapter down under, and one more before I go on holiday.

Part 162 can be found here.

New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 162 (by 777ER Jul 9 2015 in Civil Aviation)

ZKOJH · Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:28 am

"Jetstar to use Dreamliner on transtasman routes"

Jetstar will use a Boeing 787 Dreamliner on transtasman services from Auckland during summer and has added more domestic flights as it expands in this country.

The Dreamliner has been scheduled to fly from Melbourne to Auckland and from Auckland to Sydney every Monday for seven weeks from the middle of December to the end of January.

The 787 carries 335 passengers, with 21 business class seats and 314 seats in economy.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11489314

777ER · Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:26 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1):
Jetstar will use a Boeing 787 Dreamliner on transtasman services from Auckland during summer and has added more domestic flights as it expands in this country.

Excellent news about WLG-DUD and B788 flights from AKL. Great way to add both B787 versions. Guess I'll be booking a flight shortly

[Edited 2015-07-30 01:28:50]

zkncj · Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Excellent news about WLG-DUD and B788 flights from AKL

While its good to get some extra wide body services from JQ, its only once an week for 7 weeks. Also likely then that QF wont run the A330 on SYD-AKL-SYD over the summer peak this year.

It still puts QF/JQ along way off the service that NZ is providing ex AKL, BNE/MEL/SYD all have at least an Daily 772/77W service. Plus on some days there is an second 777/787 service in these ports, plus the A320 services.

zkncj · Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:44 pm

Does anyone know if the NZ 772 (Refit) & 789s have power points in Y (like on the 77W?)

sunrisevalley · Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:36 pm

Did -NZD go into service yesterday on NZ103 or is it today?

PA515 · Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 5):
Did -NZD go into service yesterday on NZ103 or is it today?

Today in about 5 minutes.

PA515

zkeoj · Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:39 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 4):
Does anyone know if the NZ 772 (Refit) & 789s have power points in Y (like on the 77W?)

Not sure about the 772 refit, but the 789 defintely has them in Y

Cheers
micha

Sylus · Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):

Excellent addition for DUD,plenty of poor students that will make use of that!

PA515 · Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:31 am

ZK-OXJ on delivery as ANZ6097. Departed TLS about 10 mins ago.

http://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6097

PA515

NZ107 · Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:52 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Excellent news about WLG-DUD

3x weekly? Wonder why they're bothering. They're better off putting that on AKL-DUD and wait until they schedule another plane for New Zealand domestic and actually go daily.

aerorobnz · Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:28 pm

From 01AUG US departures (NZ/HA) can now be departed from any Pier A gate. This is a major boost to overall gate allocations with the upcoming Summer schedule.

sunrisevalley · Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 11):
From 01AUG US departures (NZ/HA) can now be departed from any Pier A gate.

What has changed to allow this?

aerorobnz · Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 12):
What has changed to allow this?

A change in process and interpretation of the TSA requirements as part of necessity to try and find the necessary gates at peak times. Technically remote gate departures are also now possible. There is now a single screening point (in existing position forrandom testing) and no longer any necessity to secure the gate lounge area so technically NZ6 could depart off G3 and NZ748 RAR off G1 etc ..

NZ107 · Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 13):

Pending an AA announcement too, whereby there'd be no space for them to depart from if they were still restricted to having the secondary screening point?

I wonder what the changes will be for other airports around the world.

PA515 · Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 10):
3x weekly? Wonder why they're bothering. They're better off putting that on AKL-DUD and wait until they schedule another plane for New Zealand domestic and actually go daily.

Looks like they are just using up some slack in the schedule between peak times.

We Fr Su WLG-DUD 1110/1225, DUD-WLG 1255/1405, as part of an AKL-WLG-DUD and DUD-WLG-AKL.

PA515

aerorobnz · Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 14):
I wonder what the changes will be for other airports around the world.

The changes are for AKL specifically.

Sylus · Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:51 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 15):

Just easing into the market, perhaps they learnt from ZQN-WLG when they started out more frequently and ended up ditching the route.

777ER · Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 15):

Thanks for that. Was wondering where the aircraft was coming from as IIRC all their current fleet is pretty much covered

RyanairGuru · Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:18 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 10):
3x weekly? Wonder why they're bothering. They're better off putting that on AKL-DUD

Don't forget that WLG-DUD could be made daily using Dh-8-300s, whereas AKL-DUD would be pushing it in a Q300.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 3):
It still puts QF/JQ along way off the service that NZ is providing ex AKL

Except that QF offers Business Class on every flight (and even lie flats/suits on A380s via EK) and not just one flight per day.

PA515 · Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
Thanks for that. Was wondering where the aircraft was coming from as IIRC all their current fleet is pretty much covered

Air NZ have similar off peak slack in their 320 schedule, and from 07 Sep 2015, some at peak times. Will be interesting to see what the do with a 320 at CHC until 0850 Mo-Th and 0840 Fr, and at WLG from 1735 Mo-Th and possibly Fr.

PA515

Unclekoru · Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 15):

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 10):
3x weekly? Wonder why they're bothering. They're better off putting that on AKL-DUD and wait until they schedule another plane for New Zealand domestic and actually go daily.

Looks like they are just using up some slack in the schedule between peak times.

We Fr Su WLG-DUD 1110/1225, DUD-WLG 1255/1405, as part of an AKL-WLG-DUD and DUD-WLG-AKL.

PA515

Looks like it's a CHC based aircraft/crew that will be operating the DUD sevice. I.e. CHC-WLG-DUD-WLG-CHC. This fits with the revised schedule for the third daily service that operates over the busier periods and sporadically during winter. I guess it will be a little more regular once the DUD services are up and running!

777ER · Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 20):

Sounds like some more flights from NZ also. Can't really see how NZ could get an extra return flight out of the 320 from CHC unless they do a return WLG flight

PA515 · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
Can't really see how NZ could get an extra return flight out of the 320 from CHC unless they do a return WLG flight

Most likely the WLG-CHC 0645/0745 and 0730/0830 AT7's get changed back to an 0650/0740 320. Longshot would be an IVC-CHC.

PA515

777ER · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:22 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 23):

Two extra AT7s to play with! What ever the choice becomes, there will always be surplus aircraft for NZ to play with

zkncj · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
Except that QF offers Business Class on every flight (and even lie flats/suits on A380s via EK) and not just one flight per day.

Business Class is an very small market on the Tasman, EK has to do bargain deals just to so they can fill some seats.

More and more the typical Tasman traveler is becoming an Seat only Person.

mariner · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 25):
Business Class is an very small market on the Tasman, EK has to do bargain deals just to so they can fill some seats.

I've had a cou[ple of great fares AKL-BNE midweek on Emirates.

mariner

nascarnut · Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:05 pm

Two extra AT7s to play with! What ever the choice becomes, there will always be surplus aircraft for NZ to play with

The two ATR's due in December have been placed into system already.
AKL-BHE will receive 2 ATR's per day replacing Q300's
TRG-CHC will receive 1 ATR daily replacing Q300
TRG-WLG will receive 7 ATR's per week on weekdays replacing Q300's
There is also additional ATR flying on AKL=NPE/NSN/NPL/PMR routes allowing Q300's to pick up the B99 flights on the
AKL-ROT/WAG/TUO routes.
It will be interesting to see what happens in 2016 with additional ATR's.
Eventually TRG will have at least 2 ATR's overnighting. 1 for CHC and 1 for either AKL or WLG.
Your cities like NPE/NPL/PMR will become ATR dominant. The question will be where will Air NZ put the additional Q300 capacity that is becoming available

Nouflyer · Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 25):
More and more the typical Tasman traveler is becoming an Seat only Person.

If you're correct, Air NZ has opened a can of worms then which it may well live to regret.

There are lots of things about Virgin Australia which are bad (well, there's one - they got into a capacity and price war). But one thing which they have done well in terms of future sustainability is eliminating baggage-free and catering-free tickets. Their yields will clearly be higher as a result, and the cost-sensitive low-yield passengers who can't afford it will either go to Jetstar or, preferably from their point of view, to Tiger. Hence the roll-out of short-haul Business Class has extended to the Pacific Islands and the introduction of included snacks and light meals has gone network-wide, except for the joint venture with Air NZ.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally see why most Tasman pax might go seat-only. But it is a recipe for very low yields and for a need for massive seasonal changes in capacity, just like the Ryanair/Easyjet model in Europe.

I would have thought that all the carriers would have been better off staying full-service, with limited Jetstar and Freedom Air capacity for the truly impecunious. What's good for the majority of the punters isn't necessarily good for the shareholders.

Gasman · Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 28):
I would have thought that all the carriers would have been better off staying full-service,

I have a return AKL-MEL coming up in J, QF ticket on EK/QF metal. The total cost is just over $2000 AUD.

Now, lets say (for arguments sake) that the $400 return Y fare makes the carriers no money whatsoever. The added unit cost to the airlines of having me in J, in terms of real estate, food and lounge access is probably no more than another $400, tops. That equates to around $1000 - ie 50% of the fare - nett profit to the airline. Probably five to ten times what they would reap from a single discounted Y passenger. So I too, would have thought that this was a market that all airlines would benefit from retaining.

zkojq · Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:37 am

Just over a month of 737 ops to go! Any idea how many pax NAC/Air New Zealand 737s would have flown during their nearly 50 years of operations?

Today's NZ40 (ZK-NCI) diverted to RAR. Anyone know why? I wonder if it is another case of the 767s getting less reliable as they age?

coolian2 · Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:41 am

Is JQ still offering QF points on domestic flights?

777ER · Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:16 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 31):

Yes on every fare and every flight

aerorobnz · Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 28):
There are lots of things about Virgin Australia which are bad

Start with the fact they posted a loss yet again and work from there.

On the other hand the seat and bag/seat only passengers are about to cause NZ another year of profitability.

Nouflyer · Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 33):

On the other hand the seat and bag/seat only passengers are about to cause NZ another year of profitability.

Are they?
The LCC model around the world requires exceptionally high loads to turn even a small profit. The other way of looking at Virgin's results is to say that without the kind of absurd creative accounting that Qantas has used they have turned a very large loss into a relatively small one, and all indications are that things are going the right way.

I get the economic value of ancillary charges. But when Virgin Australia got rid of its Saver Lite fares it basically extracted ancillary charges from all its domestic passengers. Every fare went up by at least $10 overnight.

It seems to me that Air NZ's profitability stems from:

1. The sidelining of Virgin as a Tasman competitor, and
2. The monopoly market position on almost the entire medium and long-haul network.

I don't think that Seats To Suit is responsible for any of the profits, and indeed I think that on most of the A320 network the removal of Business Class has had the opposite effect. Going from 144Y/8J to 168Y by definition requires the sale of at least 145 Y seats to not be a step backwards, but even the least high-yielding routes supposedly averaged 2-3J sales per flight, presumably equivalent to at least 8-12 more Y sales.

So any A320 selling fewer than 152 seats - a 90.5% load - is presumably less profitable than the previous configuration.

Which is obvious, because it's precisely why Virgin Australia has inserted 2 Business Class rows into its 737 fleet, both domestically and on the Tasman.

mariner · Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:34 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 33):
Start with the fact they posted a loss yet again and work from there.

The slack that is given to Virgin Australia is astonishing to me.

Okay, they reduced the loss - but fuel is down by half, the market share war with Qantas - which Virgin started - is (supposedly) over and Virgin still can't make a quid.

mariner

sunrisevalley · Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
Okay, they reduced the loss - but fuel is down by half, the market share war with Qantas - which Virgin started - is (supposedly) over and Virgin still can't make a quid.

And QF allegedly about to report a very healthy profit.. Something is wrong

Nouflyer · Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 36):
And QF allegedly about to report a very healthy profit.. Something is wrong

I'm not sure that very much has changed apart from the excess capacity being reduced.

Qantas management used a number of creative accounting processes to inflate their previous loss and to extract industrial concessions, but their cost base has barely changed in the actual year which will show miracle results. I suspect that QF domestic and international were both profitable all along.

Virgin rightly or wrongly got into a capacity and price war to increase their market share of the middle and top ends of the market. That carries obvious short-term costs over more than one financial year, but I guess that their argument would be that their packed executive lounges and significant Business Class sales - and the elimination of the no-frills Saver Lite product - are indications of longer-term higher yields and a move upwards in terms of market segment.

In some ways, the clearest sign that Virgin's strategy is doing what they intended to do is that for the first time in years they didn't run a "double status credits" promotion. That tells me that they don't need to give away elite status any more, they have as many high end frequent flyers qualifying for Gold and Platinum status as they can cope with.

PA515 · Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:13 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 36):
And QF allegedly about to report a very healthy profit.. Something is wrong

Yes, the QF auditors that signed off on an overstated loss in 2014 to make 2015 look good. A more accurate result would be to add both years together and divide by two.

PA515

sunrisevalley · Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:32 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 38):
Yes, the QF auditors that signed off on an overstated loss in 2014 to make 2015 look good. A more accurate result would be to add both years together and divide by two.

QF did what they were allowed to do for 2014 and no doubt will do the same for 2015. The valuation of their owned fleet is one area where there is room to make significant changes that will materially change the results from one year to another.

NZdsgnr · Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 30):

Today's NZ40 (ZK-NCI) diverted to RAR. Anyone know why? I wonder if it is another case of the 767s getting less reliable as they age?

First to fly the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09

This is the email I received. Apparently went to Raro but continued back to Auckland because of lack of accommodation in Raro. Apparently weather in Tahiti wasn't that bad.

"Unfortunately the departure of your flight NZ41 has been delayed this afternoon as a result of adverse weather in Tahiti causing the inbound aircraft to return to Auckland."

mariner · Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 37):
I'm not sure that very much has changed apart from the excess capacity being reduced.

The price of fuel has changed - oil is now below $50 a barrel, down from $110 a year or so ago.

You can can cut 'em all the slack you want, but Virgin hasn't made any real money since Borghetti took over, and TigerAir (Oz), which is divorced from the push for premium markets, lost $10 million in the just reported quarter as well.

I understand it's been a difficult market, but Virgin America had it tougher, a start-up in an over-saturated market, and has managed a fairly spectacular turnaround from hefty losses to healthy profit.

So even if we accept CEO Borghetti's "jam tomorrow" theory, it's been "jam tomorrow" for a heck of a long time and the accumulated losses continue to mount up.

I'm with CEO Luxon - it's time Virgin made some money.

mariner

Gasman · Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
The slack that is given to Virgin Australia is astonishing to me.

They have exactly the same, somewhat unjustified "can do no wrong" aura that NZ enjoys over here.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 30):
Just over a month of 737 ops to go! Any idea how many pax NAC/Air New Zealand 737s would have flown during their nearly 50 years of operations?

I've just been to WLG and back on the A320s. It's a perfect aircraft for the route. Slightly a shame that the cabin felt so cheap & plastic - sort of like the interior of a Daewoo, but hey, first world problems. RIP the 737.

mariner · Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 42):
They have exactly the same, somewhat unjustified "can do no wrong" aura that NZ enjoys over here.

There is one difference - fairly crucial in my mind.

Air New Zealand is a profitable airline, and remained profitable all through the GFC. CEO Borghetti, of Virgin, took a profitable airline and turned it into an unprofitable one.

mariner

aerorobnz · Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:09 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 42):
They have exactly the same, somewhat unjustified "can do no wrong" aura that NZ enjoys over here.

Like Ansett had right before the final decline into bankruptcy?

VA deserves criticism where it's warranted, as does NZ, as does EK,SQ,QR etc etc. One can only trade on reputation so far before business principles take over.

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 34):
Are they?

Yes, they have expanded frequent flyer membership, increased loadfactors transtasman and increased the frequency that the average traveller is flying to Australia/Pacific and Transtasman is pulling a profit in it's own right. That is due to expanding the traditional "NZ' market. NZ as a company has made many overhead cost savings as well. VA hasn't, they have a more complex business model than ever which is why they lost money in an airline market that is currently making money.

I still believe that baggage should be completely unbundled from the product. If I want inflight Works I do not want a bag, or indeed I might want a bag but not the meal. This also would allow for Gold passengers to gain a free bag if they so desire.
It would also allow NZ to increase Works inflight product uptake if, as you say , that is what the market demands inflight. I'm not convinced, even though I have never bought anything less than Works internationally.

PA515 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:23 am

Just noticed a flightradar24.com receiver in PPT again after a long absence, and it has a reasonable range.

Tracked VT ATR72-600 F-ORVS for most of TIH-PPT and VT ATR42-600 F-ORVC for most of MAU-PPT, so a range of about 300 kms down to 10,000 ft, which could be about 400 kms at 35,000 ft.

PA515

[Edited 2015-08-03 18:24:41]

PA515 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:03 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 30):
Today's NZ40 (ZK-NCI) diverted to RAR. Anyone know why? I wonder if it is another case of the 767s getting less reliable as they age?

Quoting NZdsgnr (Reply 40):
This is the email I received. Apparently went to Raro but continued back to Auckland because of lack of accommodation in Raro. Apparently weather in Tahiti wasn't that bad.

"Unfortunately the departure of your flight NZ41 has been delayed this afternoon as a result of adverse weather in Tahiti causing the inbound aircraft to return to Auckland."

NZ6070 (ZK-NCI) AKL-PPT arrived PPT about 10 mins ago.

The flightradar24.com receiver in PPT has a blindspot to the south, no doubt due to a location on the north of the island. Only picked up NZ6070 from about 60 kms to the south west.

PA515

[Edited 2015-08-03 21:08:08]

aerohottie · Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 33):
On the other hand the seat and bag/seat only passengers are about to cause NZ another year of profitability.

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 34):
I get the economic value of ancillary charges. But when Virgin Australia got rid of its Saver Lite fares it basically extracted ancillary charges from all its domestic passengers. Every fare went up by at least $10 overnight.

I think VA hurt themselves by not having a "works" type option. The gap between "Seat and bag" and "Flexi" is way too large... it is for this reason alone that I book all tasman flights with NZ in works, whether the flight is on VA or NZ metal.

Gasman · Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:34 am

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11492317

So there are five employees in the "one million plus" pay bracket at Auckland airport.

Acknowledging market forces, the need to attract talent etc., I would still think this is out of whack. The business model associated with running an airport is well established and doesn't tend to evolve particularly quickly. I would have thought that the positions of CEO and Chief Operating Officer would mandate attracting the sort of people being woo'd by seven figure salaries, but that would be all.

flyjetstar · Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:04 am

China Southern looking to operate new flights from Guangzhou to Christchurch by end of year. #CAPASummit

China Southern will look to launch year-round flights to Cairns and Gold Coast, could fly to Brazil via Auckland or Tahiti. #CAPASummit

Source: Jamie Freed - Twitter

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