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727LOVER
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Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:12 pm

Well, according to this article, the F/As were prissy and rude.....but as always, there are 2 sides to the story.


http://www.yahoo.com/parenting/famil...-for-questioning-125439668432.html
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
33lspotter
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:28 pm

Can never know the real story, but I've been on flights with far more difficult passengers and no incident.

Don't think it was very professional behavior by the flight attendant, saying "I can turn this plane around" or the captain, who could have said "get your bags, get off the plane" a lot differently. While crewmembers are people too, they do have an obligation to be professional.

Admittedly, the mother could have framed her statement differently than saying "I got the lecture." Tactfulness seems to be lost on people these days.

Either way, I think B6 owes the family an apology in the event that its employees overreacted—which, based on what I've read from the articles and social media posts from passengers who were aboard the flight, it certainly seems they did.

On a funny note, EI134 had to delay its takeoff from BOS (while holding short of 33L) last night because someone went to the lavatory during taxi. The plane took off without incident five minutes later. Sometimes you just gotta go?  



[Edited 2015-07-30 11:33:28]
 
ec99
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:39 pm

In cases like this, I always start with the assumption that the cabin crew and the passengers involved are lying. The stories people tell when they have an interest in the outcomes just don't often end up being the truth.

That said, if the tweets could be verified to have come from a non-interested witness on the plane, that would go a long way to convincing me that the cabin crew lost there cool and made a mistake.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting EC99 (Reply 2):

That said, if the tweets could be verified to have come from a non-interested witness on the plane, that would go a long way to convincing me that the cabin crew lost there cool and made a mistake.

I have to agree. I think some carriers need to offer staff some sensitivity training in dealing with non compliant passengers.I have been on a number of flights where flight attendants go above and beyond to explain and get the non complaint pax into compliance, but have also witnessed some bizarre almost hateful flight attendants who definitely are on power trips. and exacerbate the situation where it is out of control. The dollars it costs companys like B6 in this instance to back pedal and make apologies would warrant a higher level of sensitivity training. Remember...Its not what you say, its how you say it.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:01 pm

I always ignore sensational articles like this until we hear the airline's version. These "journalism" always portray the corporations/airlines to be Satan GmbH while the customers are always next in line for sainthood ordainment, regardless of who-did-what or who-was-right.
 
santi319
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:14 pm

Are you kidding me?? Its an FAR rule!!! No one over 2 can be held in arms, not for take off or landing! This is so sad we get to the point where poor journalism prevails with zero research done before printing the story. When will Passengers learn that rules in the aviation industry are there for a reason, thanks in part to many accidents and incidents in the past. I'm embarassed for the poor journalism shown in this article. Its funny how the passenger that tweeted had the family's tweet account, yet they were supposedly strangers...
 
Maverick623
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:25 pm

Quote:
And there are plenty of people on planes who don’t comply with instructions right away — they don’t turn off their phones or they get up when the ‘Fasten Seatbelt’ light is on — and they don’t get kicked off the plane.

Uh, yeah, they do... when the plane is still on the ground anyways. It's like trying to get out of a seatbelt ticket by crying that the cops don't always give out tickets to speeders.

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 3):
I think some carriers need to offer staff some sensitivity training in dealing with non compliant passengers.

People need to learn how to follow rules that exist for their safety. It shouldn't be anyone's job to mollycoddle a spoiled little brat who won't take "no" for an answer.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
ridgid727
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
People need to learn how to follow rules that exist for their safety. It shouldn't be anyone's job to mollycoddle a spoiled little brat who won't take "no" for an answer.

I guess so, then they can deal with the press fallout, and the public perception of the Big Bad Airline. Shouldn't be problem to just un-mollycoddle the situation and let them deal with. A good way to look at it.
 
guyanam
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting santi319 (Reply 5):


These days we often see airline employees acting like divas. They intimidate passengers by threatening to throw them off the plane, or denying boarding. So we must endure being treated like cattle, despite the high fares which we so often must pay these days.

The role of a customer service person is to defuse a situation. With all the aggravation involved in traveling these days, it can get stressful, and especially so for those with small kids. If one cannot do this, then one must find some other line of work. There is a difference between a passenger being sarcastic, and another being overtly threatening and impacting the safety of the flight's operation.

Did the 2nd FA offer to help the mother? She could have strapped the kid in, leaving the mother to soothe the child. But she proceeded to engage in a lecture, when no doubt the mother was struggling with a squirming kid. This being why she got a sarcastic response.

So often I see customer service people, not being of assistance, but instead treating people like fools.

So unless B6 can prove that the parents were hostile, and refused to comply, even when told to do so, and as a result, holding up the operation of the flight, then I am with the parents. Being sarcastic isnt a crime and any one who deals with the public must have to put up with this, defuse the situation, and lead towards one where customers comply.

Maybe the FA needs to find a job as a model, if she thinks that her sole role is to look pretty, and then gets aggravated when a problem emerges.. If she is frustrated with her job, that isnt the passengers fault.

BTW its not the obligation of passengers to know FAA rules. The mother was apparently told one thing on one flight and then another on the 2nd flight with the same airline. So why the shock that she initially queried the policy?
 
spacecadet
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:05 pm

The father's story doesn't make sense. Why would a second flight attendant tell him to put the child in his seat if he already was in his seat?

It sounds to me like they were non-compliant. My guess is they put the child in his seat until they thought the f/a wasn't watching, then took him back to be on one of their laps. When another f/a saw it and came back over, they probably quickly tried to get the child buckled back up.

It's hard to know if the crew overreacted because we're only hearing it from him. But even just hearing his side, the story doesn't add up.
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lightsaber
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting santi319 (Reply 5):

Wait... The family was violating FAA ticket rules and it is evil company for enforcing what they must?!?

Enough hassle passengers....

Lightsaber
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ozark1
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:27 pm

Oh boy! Another anti-airline story that can be turned into a social media frenzy, and of course, before the facts are known!
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 10):
The father's story doesn't make sense. Why would a second flight attendant tell him to put the child in his seat if he already was in his seat?

It sounds to me like they were non-compliant. My guess is they put the child in his seat until they thought the f/a wasn't watching, then took him back to be on one of their laps. When another f/a saw it and came back over, they probably quickly tried to get the child buckled back up.

I could see this happening either way. Either the flight crew was touchy (a JFK-based crew? Unpossible!) and didn't give the passenger enough time to comply before haranguing her, or the passenger did what you state above.

In any case if a previous cabin crew actually told her she could hold the kid on her lap at takeoff that crew was in error. I'm more inclined to think she just did it and no one noticed or spoke up.

[Edited 2015-07-30 16:43:30]
 
JBLUA320
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:41 pm

I know the crew of this flight very well and will just say that there are two sides to every story. Don't always believe what you read in the media.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):

Exactly.

I've noticed latley, whenever there is a passenger involved altercation, it's always the airlines fault, no matter the facts. This "Oh the poor family" BS needs to stop. When I fly, I have seen more than my fair share of entitled people who get their sense of entitlement because, "I have little kids so the whole airport owes me"

There are huge details missing from that article, and I think it is that way so the writer can ally with the parents against the "Big Bad Airline"
 
fetzervalve
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:02 am

major city cab drivers have cameras now so maybe it's time for new aircraft to be GoPro equipped..........would likely move people to behave a bit better over time as they begin to realize they're being taped for security purposes
 
werdywerd
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:51 am

Yet another DAILY case of people who feel entitled and think the rules don't apply to them, but when they get embarrassed by the consequences they become "A Victim" and will try to sue for big bucks and get on every TV show that will have them.
The new American Dream

P.S. I was waiting for her to mention something something about being a terrorist, and I heard it right away. When she said "They marched us off the plane as if we were terrorists" (53 second mark) I knew all I needed to know. They want to be the victims badly here and know all the key words to use.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting fetzervalve (Reply 16):
major city cab drivers have cameras now so maybe it's time for new aircraft to be GoPro equipped..........would likely move people to behave a bit better over time as they begin to realize they're being taped for security purposes

Wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some cameras in the cabin area. It would sure help with any investigation, when persons disobey F/A's or the F/A's don't deal with a situation well.

There are several factors likely making these incidents more frequent and known to the public.

More consumers think they are exempt from any rules. Too man just don't have any class or manners, kids are not well mannered or disciplined long before they board.

The higher levels of stress when flying over the last 10-15 years due to fears of terrorism, the hassles of security, charging for stuff that used to be included with a fare, unable to get a seat you prefer for no extra fare, the difficulty of people traveling together to sit together for cheap fares, tighter seating, more crowded planes, smaller planes, too many bring too large carry ons to hold down bag costs or fear losing luggage, delays due to weather and traffic.

F/A's and pilots who are getting paid less with less tolerance for hassles, fear of one person gets away with stuff others will want to get away with it too, more crowded planes.

Almost everyone has a camera/video recorder in their phones, so can record stuff, they can forward such pics and video around the world on social media in minutes, giving their side, while the f/a's and airline has to wait to get their side out.
 
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Groover158
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):
In his own version the dad was an asshole ("I got the lecture") ...bet this guy was an aggressive dick and I'm glad jetBlue wouldn't take any crap.

It was the wife who stated that she said; "I got the lecture" in both the printed and video interviews, so I think your assertion that the husband is 'an asshole' and that you bet that he is 'an aggressive dick' is completely misplaced...unless you know him personally, which clearly you don't.

Whilst on that matter, I find it funny that you think that someone who says; 'I got the lecture' is worthy of being called 'an asshole' and is likely 'an aggressive dick', on that basis. But an FA saying; ‘First of all, it wasn’t a lecture, and I can turn this plane around.’ doesn't rate a mention in terms of aggressiveness.

FAs are just as susceptible to being aggressive as can regular pax. Regardless of what role we play, we are all only human and capable of good and not-so-good behaviour.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):
and while this may be a bit racist, ...

Unless you have met every Indian family...absolutely. Oh and are they not US citizens?
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:00 am

There's always two sides to a story.... then somewhere in murky waters in between there is the truth. I get the inclination there piece of the story missing here its sounds incomplete.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:12 am

Simply amazing that 2 independent flight attendants plus the pilot at that very instant decided to intimidate and discriminate against that one family, but no one else on the flight! How those cosmic events seemed to have converged on that one 2 year old, and that highly compliant, cooperative family. Frankly, I hope they DO sue. As they used to say, "Tell it to the judge!" The kid, mom and dad must really be some pieces of work.
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rbavfan
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:41 am

Quoting 33Lspotter (Reply 1):
On a funny note, EI134 had to delay its takeoff from BOS (while holding short of 33L) last night because someone went to the lavatory during taxi.

Had a passenger on a contenental flight get up to use the toilet while we were turning onto the runway with a rolling T-O. We got the present of another 35 min delay to go with the older 4 hour one in the terminal.
 
rugger
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:44 am

If the passengers weren't so middle east looking would the outcome have been any different?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:52 am

I stand by my comments.

Quoting groover158 (Reply 19):
unless you know him personally, which clearly you don't

I have seen enough passengers with a sense of entitlement to know the type.

Quoting groover158 (Reply 19):
But an FA saying; ‘First of all, it wasn’t a lecture, and I can turn this plane around.’ doesn't rate a mention in terms of aggressiveness

It doesn't, for two reasons -- 1. it was in response to non-complient behaviour, and 2. the crew can do what they want, it's their ship, pax can complain about it and a really hostile employee may even face disciplinary action by their employer, but argumentative and / or disobedient pax can (and should) be offloaded or at worst face legal consequences.

Quoting groover158 (Reply 19):
Unless you have met every Indian family...absolutely

I've met plenty thanks, and while I am a fan, they do not discipline their kids at all, little princes and princesses to a boy and girl. I can see why the kid started crying when it had to finally sit in it's own seat with a seatbelt on -- first time in it's short life it had ever had to do anything it didn't want to.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
rbavfan
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:53 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Being sarcastic isnt a crime and any one who deals with the public must have to put up with this

why must people working with the public "Have" to put up with it. 20 years back you were told sorry, he must be belted in and you did it. Now parents are like no that's ok my kid and me do what we want. Sarcasm and attitude when safety is the issue shows poor ability to follow law and instruction.
 
spacecadet
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 13):
Either the flight crew was touchy (a JFK-based crew? Unpossible!) and didn't give the passenger enough time to comply before haranguing her

That doesn't jibe with what she said, which was:

She got very defensive very quickly, but when she said that I got him in his seat and was buckling him in.”

Doshi says a second flight attendant approached less than a minute later and gave her the same instructions. “I was a bit irritated and I said, ‘OK, I got it. I got the lecture and I’m putting him in his seat,’” Doshi explains.


So she's putting the child in his seat and "buckling him in", and "less than a minute later" another f/a comes over to tell her to put the child in his seat. Sure, "less than a minute" could be anywhere from 0 to 60 seconds, but she didn't say "a moment later" or "right after that" or even "a few seconds later", she specifically used the phrase "less than a minute", which to me implies some time has passed. Probably very close to a minute.

Now, time that out. She's already buckling the kid in. Sit there yourself right now for, I dunno, let's say 50 seconds. Don't do anything, just look at your watch and think about what she was doing *after* buckling the kid in. (Remember, she was "buckling him in" as the other f/a left, so she had already complied with the instructions, which she explicitly states.) What does 50 seconds feel like? It's a long time after buckling the kid in, right? What was she doing in all that time? And why would a second f/a come over at that point if the kid is already buckled in to tell her to do what she did a minute ago? Even if she came over just to check, she's going to see he's buckled in and then go away. She's not going to tell her to do something that's already done.

It just doesn't make sense. Either she never buckled the kid in or she did and then she unbuckled him and put him back on her lap, and another f/a saw it.
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greg3322
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:55 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 26):
Now, time that out. She's already buckling the kid in. Sit there yourself right now for, I dunno, let's say 50 seconds. Don't do anything, just look at your watch and think about what she was doing *after* buckling the kid in. (Remember, she was "buckling him in" as the other f/a left, so she had already complied with the instructions, which she explicitly states.) What does 50 seconds feel like? It's a long time after buckling the kid in, right? What was she doing in all that time? And why would a second f/a come over at that point if the kid is already buckled in to tell her to do what she did a minute ago? Even if she came over just to check, she's going to see he's buckled in and then go away. She's not going to tell her to do something that's already done.

One of my daughters was very good at arching her back in her car seat so you couldn't get the belts on. Sometimes it would take several minutes to get her in, often with lots of crying (by my wife and daughter!). She did it once (and luckily only once) on a plane, but she was under two, so my wife held her until she calmed down. It is stressful to fly with kids and they certainly pick up on that.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
BTW its not the obligation of passengers to know FAA rules.

Wrong when your a parent and traveling with children you SHOULD know the FAA rules. There are many places they are posted. As a matter of fact on the jetBlue.com page you book your flights there is a pop up widow directly under part of the return date that says: Lap Infants (Under 2) in the row with number of passengers to select and Dollars or TrueBlue points.
 
bpat777
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:40 am

I agree, why would a 2nd f/a give mom the same directive if the child was sitting in his seat buckled up. Cry me a river lady. All it takes is one person seated 15 rows ahead to catch the end of the situation, make a judgement call then take to social media. I wonder when planning next summer vacation if B6 is $50 cheaper if they'll fly them again.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:43 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 26):

Or the kid unbuckled himself. 2 year olds aren't wobbly blobs of jello like 6 month olds. They are strong, agile, fast thinking, quick acting, devious, trouble makers. It's what they do. Especially boys. The kid might have been safer in the lap. But honestly this is why we brought our car seat onto our flight with our 2 year son. He felt safer, was elevated, and strapped in a five point harness.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:03 am

I hear plenty of stories from my F/A sister-in-law to know that there is a lot of unnecessary drama on airplanes nowadays. People don't want to follow rules or don't care to educate themselves to the degree necessary. Also, socially some people are just all about themselves. She will frequently go the extra mile and out of her way to accommodate or assist someone who is humble or clearly in need, but she will absolutely draw the line when people cop an attitude. After 25 years (or whatever she's had doing it), you just see where situations are going (been there, done that) and are not going to let people push them around or think they call the shots onboard.

Having said that, I certainly know that F/A's - like all of us - make mistakes, have bad days, and can get get themselves in over their head unintentionally. Not all of them are personable or understand how to diffuse a situation. I'm sure there have been plenty of times that an otherwise solvable issue has gotten ugly because of a hot-headed F/A.

Regardless, the conditions on airplanes have deteriorated over the years and we're going to continue to see stories like this hit the media. I hope that they media is up to the journalistic challenge.

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Groover158
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:22 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 24):
I stand by my comments.

I have seen enough passengers with a sense of entitlement to know the type.

Breathtaking. You attribute a quote to the wrong person and on the basis of your mistake decide that they are an asshole and an aggressive dick, anyway. Nowhere does it mention that the husband uttered a single word in the altercation between his wife and the FA. So someone you never met, who is not quoted as saying anything or doing anything during the altercation not only is an asshole and an aggressive dick, but they also clearly have a sense of entitlement.

So what was it about his type that you observed that decides he has a sense of entitlement; the fact that he is Indian? his family photo? his name? the colour of his shirt?
 
brilondon
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting 33Lspotter (Reply 1):
Don't think it was very professional behavior by the flight attendant, saying "I can turn this plane around" or the captain, who could have said "get your bags, get off the plane" a lot differently. While crewmembers are people too, they do have an obligation to be professional.

Admittedly, the mother could have framed her statement differently than saying "I got the lecture." Tactfulness seems to be lost on people these days.

Either way, I think B6 owes the family an apology in the event that its employees overreacted—which, based on what I've read from the articles and social media posts from passengers who were aboard the flight, it certainly seems they did.

I am going to side with the airline on this because of the way the so called reporters usually misrepresent the story to get headlines and ratings.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 4):

I always ignore sensational articles like this until we hear the airline's version. These "journalism" always portray the corporations/airlines to be Satan GmbH while the customers are always next in line for sainthood ordainment, regardless of who-did-what or who-was-right.

I wish more airlines had the you know whats to do this.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):

People need to learn how to follow rules that exist for their safety. It shouldn't be anyone's job to mollycoddle a spoiled little brat who won't take "no" for an answer.

Here, here.

I have flown B6 many times and have found the FAs to be some of the best ones in the industry. The flying public needs to understand that they don't have the right to make up their own rules when it comes to safety. The rules are there for a reason, some make more sense than others but are still there for your safety. The media usually gets it so screwed up the story they report is more fiction than fact.
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airplaneboy
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:18 am

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/family-kicked-off-jetblue-plane-for-questioning-125439668432.html

Other passengers tweeted that the flight attendants were rude and that the family was mistreated. Passengers these days are very honest and often support whomever they believe was wronged- whether it be the crew or other passengers. Flight attendants should be compassionate about traveling families' situations. More importantly, they are there to INFORM of regulations, NOT ENFORCE them. One FA asking them to buckle their child in ONCE was enough. They were INFORMED. A second FA approaching them is just harassment. Also, the language used by the FAs (or choice of words) were not professional. The FAs should have been more understanding of the parents' stressful situation. I've been flying for 11 years, shame on the FA who allegedly said "I've been flying for 9 years and I know the rules" or whatever. Who cares?? You don't talk to your customers that way.
 
skaggs
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:04 pm

Being the parent of teenagers, I am a master at smelling BS. The passengers are likely fabricating most of their side of the story. The supposed tweets from fellow passengers include the twitter address of the husband or wife that got kicked off.. So in the midst of deplaning they yelled out their @twitter address??? Please. They obviously had friends tweet in their defense that were not on the plane.

I believe they acted like a-holes and were probably thrown off for good reason.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:42 pm

Quoting fetzervalve (Reply 16):
major city cab drivers have cameras now so maybe it's time for new aircraft to be GoPro equipped..........would likely move people to behave a bit better over time as they begin to realize they're being taped for security purposes

Boy, now we will have f/a's and CSA's equipped with cameras like the police.. Next comes the Tasers, I guess.

It will liven up a slow news day at CNN or MSNBC.

I have often thought that if you could video tape passenger/employee altercations and play them back it would make for some interesting viewing. A few years ago there was a TV show that featured WN and their employees and you saw some incredible behavior by passengers towards the airline's staff, intoxicated people, clueless people, and entitled people. I believe it was just called "Airline" and it lasted for about three seasons. Wonder if I can find it on Netflix or Hulu.
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chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 12):
Oh boy! Another anti-airline story that can be turned into a social media frenzy, and of course, before the facts are known!

Complete with obligatory staged, posed photo of the smiling "They-Look-So-NICE!!!" family.
 
slvrblt
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 34):
More importantly, they are there to INFORM of regulations, NOT ENFORCE them. One FA asking them to buckle their child in ONCE was enough. They were INFORMED. A second FA approaching them is just harassment.

Wrong, bud. I'm not a fan of overzealous flight attendants (and yes, there are some) but even so - passengers are REQUIRED to comply with crewmember instructions. The Federal rules state this, and it's usually covered as part of the safety demo at the beginning of the flight that no one listens to.
Plus, the airlines are required to enforce the FAR's and this is one of them. Children who are two yrs of age or more must have their own seat. The airlines must even provide a seat, free of charge, if a lap child turns two while on the return portion of a round trip journey.

I don't know what it is with parents these days; they let kids run around department stores knocking displays over (like I saw at a Target yesterday) and the parents do nothing to stop them. I was on a flight to New York two weeks ago and one of the little darlings behind me kicked the seat constantly. When I turned around and told her to stop, the mother just smiled sweetly at me, told me she does that because planes make her child nervous. (what???) She wasn't nervous; she had a coloring book out and was laughing every kick she made. Another incident a few months back, during the Christmas rush, a dad dropped the family off curbside and went to park their car. Mom and the kids came inside to wait, and mom proceeded to ignore what the kids were doing - which was running full speed around the terminal area and annoying everyone else. Then the boy darted past one of the open counter positions and made it to the moving bagbelt. Several agents yelled at the kid and one grabbed him and just pulled him away as he put his little hands on the belt. The mother complained that we didn't have to yell at her child. Riiiiiiighht.
..everything works out in the end.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting bpat777 (Reply 28):

I can see the arrogance from many obvious airline employees towards passengers. OK we are nuisances interrupting your day. We get it. So you can bring nasty attitudes to us, and we must accept this like sheep.

You are doing us a favor by transporting us from point A to point B, and we must pay for the privilege of being in your most esteemed company.

With these attitudes you folks then wonder why so many passengers are so disgruntled.

For those of us who are old enough to remember, FAs actually used to HELP passengers with young kids, rather than barking commands. Did the FA offer to help the mother, who was apparently struggling? No.

So let the war begin. Disgusting passengers vs. FAs who are doing us a favor, and who think that we are an irritant.

The second FA came with a nasty attitude and threats to have them tossed off. Humans being what they are, she got a sarcastic comment back. Being the DIVA that she was she then ran off to the pilot to complain.

He, sharing the view that passengers are disgusting creatures, and a complete inconvenience to his life, tossed them off. B6 had to swallow the cost and the time lost.


I will add that this is a feature on US carriers, which is why many prefer to fly airlines from other nations.


And to the person who rants that Indians treat their kids like prima donnas, I suggest that he witnesses WHITE American kids having a meltdown because they cannot get a candy, and how their parents rush to comply.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 35):

And what was interesting is that it was the truly obnoxious passengers who were tossed off the planes. Either drunk, or filthy. Not irritated parents complying with rules.


But we passengers get it. We are scum in the eyes of many airline employees. I can only wonder why these folks don't find some other line of work, if they hate dealing with people.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 35):
A few years ago there was a TV show that featured WN and their employees and you saw some incredible behavior by passengers towards the airline's staff, intoxicated people, clueless people, and entitled people. I believe it was just called "Airline" and it lasted for about three seasons. Wonder if I can find it on Netflix or Hulu.

Airline USA is the show you are talking about and the first season is available on YouTube (as of this writing).

In fact, funnily enough, here is the one about kids: Airline USA | Season 1 | Episode 5 | Kids Who'd Have Them

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12598
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:22 pm

I find it amusing how everyone cries about the article judging the airline and painting the employees as in the wrong.

Immediately followed by everyone here judging the passengers and painting them as in the wrong.

Oh well.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 725
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:44 pm

Slvrbit, I understand your point of view. And I agree, FARs require passenger compliance with crew member's instructions. With that said, FAs have to pick and choose their battles. Although the child is legally required to occupy their own seat at the age of 2, what's the difference between a child who is 2 years old and one who is 13 months and 29 days old? At some point something has to give and if the parents could not control their toddler to remain buckled into his seat, then the next best thing is to allow the 2 year old to sit on mom's lap- which they were allowed to do on their previous JetBlue flight. An experienced 9 year veteran of any airline should be compassionate and understanding that not all toddlers behave "properly" when in an airplane. They're in a different environment and are at an active age. Toddlers are not quiet, calm, and able to sit still for more than several minutes. This is normal and natural! It seems like the parents attempted to do their best to "control" their toddler, but sometimes it just doesn't work out on an airplane when the child feels uncomfortable. I'm not a parent and I know this through my years of flying. With social media, it's much easier to be aware of incidents on flights, and I'm sorry but I haven't heard of one single tweet or social media post supporting the FAs actions. Passengers these days are generally observant and quick to point out who's wrong. The family had multiple fellow passengers on that flight supporting them, one even saying that the family was very nice. In my opinion, if the choice of words by the crew are accurate- then those crew members were either having a bad day or need a lesson in customer service. This reminds me of when mobile phone usage wasn't allowed. I cringed when I flew with FAs who would hover over passengers after asking them to turn of their phones. It's one thing for someone to be out of their seat while the aircraft is moving, but it's totally a power trip when FAs are hovering over customers or nagging at them (like sending another FA to double check someone). In my opinion, you kindly request that someone fasten their seatbelt or stow their hand luggage and WALK AWAY. You don't stand there like a police officer or return again to see if they complied. Customers are not children.

[Edited 2015-07-31 11:46:18]

[Edited 2015-07-31 11:46:58]
 
727LOVER
Topic Author
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:09 pm

Here's an update...B6 is not apologizing.

See video:

http://gma.yahoo.com/jetblue-respond...s-155835142--abc-news-travel.html#
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
werdywerd
Posts: 610
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:51 pm

Question - how did all of these twitter users get the family's twitter handle if they didn't know each other? Was she screaming her twitter handle as she was being escorted off the plane?
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
With that said, FAs have to pick and choose their battles.

No, they don't. In fact, they are legally prohibited from doing so.

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
Although the child is legally required to occupy their own seat at the age of 2, what's the difference between a child who is 2 years old and one who is 13 months and 29 days old?

One is 13 months and 29 days, and the other is 14 months. That's the law, and if an FAA inspector catches an FA slacking, they could lose their jobs.

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
allow the 2 year old to sit on mom's lap- which they were allowed to do on their previous JetBlue flight.

So, because a cop let you off once for speeding, you should never get a speeding ticket again?

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
An experienced 9 year veteran of any airline should be compassionate and understanding that not all toddlers behave "properly" when in an airplane.

An experienced 9-year veteran knows that "compassion" is not to be found anywhere in the FARs, and is no defense against allowing someone to break the rules.

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
I'm sorry but I haven't heard of one single tweet or social media post supporting the FAs actions.

Funny, I haven't seen a single legitimate tweet or social media post supporting the parents, either.

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
The family had multiple fellow passengers on that flight supporting them, one even saying that the family was very nice.

They did? I've heard of one, and it's extremely suspect. As for "nice", even the parents admitted they got a little short with the second flight attendant... not that that's a crime or anything. Just an observation.

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
This reminds me of when mobile phone usage wasn't allowed. I cringed when I flew with FAs who would hover over passengers after asking them to turn of their phones.

Again, if they didn't, they stood to lose their jobs or get fined by the FAA. You would rather some DYKWIA be able to make that oh-so-important phone call than have someone keep their job?

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
but it's totally a power trip when FAs are hovering over customers or nagging at them (like sending another FA to double check someone).

It's not a power trip. It's the LAW. They HAVE to nag when people don't comply.

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 42):
You don't stand there like a police officer or return again to see if they complied.

Yes, they do. THAT IS THE LAW. They may not be gun-toting police officers, but they do enforce laws and regulations.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 725
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:06 pm

Maverick, with all due respect I understand your point of view about "following the rules." I've been a flight attendant for over 11 years now, so I get it. But if every toddler that refused to be buckled in on a flight required returning to the gate, we would have dozens of flights returning to the gate everyday to offload families with little ones. Did the FAs try to communicate with the toddler and offer the family assistance in any way? Jetblue's slogan is "You above all." Traveling with toddlers can be a nightmare more so for the parents than the crew (not to say that there aren't parents who don't care and don't try to work with their kids). But surely the crew could have been more compassionate? Also, there are other tweets if you google the flight number and also in the first link I provided.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 43):
Here's an update...B6 is not apologizing.

Excellent, no need to apologize for enforcing safety regulations.

"We're sorry for enforcing rules that are designed to keep travelers safe, here's a voucher and some miles." What? That makes no sense whatsoever.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:01 am

Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 46):



A good FA would have smoothed the issue by strapping the kid in the seat, while the mother was able to calm the kid. She would have sympathized with the mother, and explained in a calm tone that it is in the interest of the child that he be strapped in.


This is what customer service people are supposed to do. Solve problems in a way that leaves customers feeling appreciated.


Now based on the response from the airline personnel it is evident to me that they don't have one iota of appreciation for the fact that if the passengers take their business elsewhere, or decide that travel is too much of an aggravation, then they will lose their jobs.

None what so ever. Their attitude is akin to prison guards dealing with unruly criminals. If the FA thinks that sarcasm is a crime, then she really needs to find another line of work, that doesn't involve any aspect of customer service.

Post 9/11 we have seen a new attitude from cabin crews who are now fully empowered to intimidate and ill treat passengers. The service provided by US carriers continues to drop to unacceptable levels, but passengers must take it.

The lawyer was right. Behave like a sheep on board and then swamp the airline with bad press thereafter.

I am quite sure that most people who travel sympathize, not with the FA, but with the passenger, because we have all suffered at the hands of rude FAs, and other customer service airline personnel.
 
bpat777
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

RE: Family Kicked Off B6 Flight

Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:52 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 48):
I am quite sure that most people who travel sympathize, not with the FA, but with the passenger, because we have all suffered at the hands of rude FAs, and other customer service airline personnel.

I wouldn't say most. I travel frequently on various airlines and I would say 85% of my suffering has been at the hands of other passengers not airline employees. The one type of fellow passenger that irks me most is the one who believes they know it all and attempts to "incite" others while eavesdropping or waiting in line.

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