Australian Aviation Thread Part 126

Flyingsottsman · Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:06 am

I read on here that Air Vanuatu will not be coming back to MEL, my question is how come some flights are between city's work and some don't like Sydney/Brisbane to Port Vila work how come Melbourne does not I would of thought heaps of Victorians would love to head into the tropics from here especially since it gets bloody cold down here this time of the year. So how come some city to city flights work and some don't?

SYDSpotter · Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 47):
Don't most Australian business (and political) leaders insist on luxury road transport (or helicopters) rather than trains and public transport?

Malcolm Turnbull seems to catch a few trains, although I suppose it's probably for the novelty given he probably has a fleet of his own luxury cars (and chauffeurs) to choose from.

Quoting allrite (Reply 47):
Well if they are too poor to drive (luxury vehicles) then surely they can't afford to fly either.

Or as Mr Hockey likes to put it "If you want to fly (buy a house), get a good job that pays good money"

747m8te · Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:35 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 50):
I read on here that Air Vanuatu will not be coming back to MEL, my question is how come some flights are between city's work and some don't like Sydney/Brisbane to Port Vila work how come Melbourne does not I would of thought heaps of Victorians would love to head into the tropics from here especially since it gets bloody cold down here this time of the year. So how come some city to city flights work and some don't?

Could be a larger volume of community/political ties between Brisbane and Sydney with the Pacific Islands than what there may be with Melbourne. Also just purely looking at the tourist market, MEL's position geographically doesn't help it as it would have to solely rely on the MEL market to support the route, as anyone else in the country would have to fly out of their way, whereas BNE and SYD being closer are much more viable as connection ports to the greater Australian population.

Also these flights often take a lot of freight, with the added flying time on flights from MEL it may mean payload could possibly take a hit. A 4hr+ flight from MEL vers a 2.5hr flight from BNE means out of BNE they wouldn't have a problem filling the belly with freight, but out of MEL it could be an issue.

777Jet · Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:40 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 46):
Where does QF use their 767 freighters and how many are in the fleet?

On the topic of the QF Freight 767...

On Sunday I was heading South / West on the M5 towards the SYD Airport tunnel and right at the perfect location, about 100m before the tunnel entry, the QF Freight 767 taxied above to the third runway! I almost crashed LOL... I Couldn't believe my luck! If only I had a dash cam... I reached for my camera but I knew better

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
how many are in the fleet?

Not enough!

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
Just thought I'd share a few images of a newly "domestic" reconfigured QF A332's.

Thanks for the images!

Quoting qf789 (Reply 29):
No MD80's, they operate about 7 flights a day 3 x738, 2 x757, 2 xA321

The 757 would be a no-brainer for 777Jet

I love 'em

RyanairGuru · Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:10 pm

Melbourne to the South Pacific is a surprisingly small market. It's not just VLI, BNE is a larger market to NOU and even NAN than MEL.

Demographics is one part, with larger Melanesian populations in Sydney and Brisbane, and the other is that I have met a lot more Victorians who think that it's a good idea to spend winter in Queensland than I have Queenslanders.

Sydscott · Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 47):
Don't most Australian business (and political) leaders insist on luxury road transport (or helicopters) rather than trains and public transport? An efficient road network is one that has special lanes exclusively for luxury vehicles. What about everyone else? Well if they are too poor to drive (luxury vehicles) then surely they can't afford to fly either.

I've got to say, it really is utterly ridiculous to not have a train line, or train lines, intersecting at Badgerys Creek Airport. As much as I hate to say this, because I think Mike Baird is doing a great job as Premier, Public Transport really is a State Government responsibility so some of that money he's ear-marked from electricity privatisaion should go towards a train line to the new airport.

qfvhoqa · Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:29 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 54):

I think the flight time also plays a factor. For BNE especially but also SYD, NAN/VLI are a short flight away. DPS is a few hours further. But MEL-NAN is only 20min less than MEL-DPS, and Bali is a far cheaper destination than Fiji.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 55):
I've got to say, it really is utterly ridiculous to not have a train line, or train lines, intersecting at Badgerys Creek Airport.

I imagine they look at MEL's lack of a train line and think that a private bus operator is a better option than a public rail line.

NewsCorp is reporting that Badgerys Creek will be curfew free, as stated by Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development Deputy Secretary Andrew Wilson. Badgerys Creek Airport will operate 24/7 with no curfew

tullamarine · Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 54):
Melbourne to the South Pacific is a surprisingly small market. It's not just VLI, BNE is a larger market to NOU and even NAN than MEL.

Demographics is one part, with larger Melanesian populations in Sydney and Brisbane, and the other is that I have met a lot more Victorians who think that it's a good idea to spend winter in Queensland than I have Queenslanders.

It is a function of distance. MEL-NAN is about the same flying time as MEL-DPS and DPS is typically much cheaper. SYD and BNE are much closer to the South Pacific islands and no closer to DPS.

allrite · Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 54):
I have met a lot more Victorians who think that it's a good idea to spend winter in Queensland than I have Queenslanders

Yeah, I know some parents who thought it was a good idea to move from Victoria and actually live in Queensland. Dumb move.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 55):
I've got to say, it really is utterly ridiculous to not have a train line, or train lines, intersecting at Badgerys Creek Airport. As much as I hate to say this, because I think Mike Baird is doing a great job as Premier, Public Transport really is a State Government responsibility so some of that money he's ear-marked from electricity privatisaion should go towards a train line to the new airport.

To be fair I think the quote was coming from a Federal government representative and we all know how little support the current government has for railways. But he was speaking about $3.5 billion in jointly funded road infrastructure...

In the case of Badgery's Creek I believe that rail infrastructure is especially important as it is a second metropolitan airport which will be run in conjunction with Kingsford Smith for years. So you need good connections between the two and for it to be convenient from across the city. I guess that the financial woes of the Airport Line in Sydney compared to the amount of money private industry (investment banks ahem) has made consulting, building and extending tollways in Sydney make it a more "rewarding" decision.

vhebb · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:53 am

Looks like 1 QF A330 is being freed up from domestic to open up more international flying:

http://www.afr.com/business/transpor...ge-of-tourism-rise-20150803-giqtxl

No routes mentioned but more HKG flying being looked at.

qfvhoqa · Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:12 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 59):
No routes mentioned but more HKG flying being looked at.

They might find it hard to get good slots to start a new route like PER-HKG (I find that route doubtful anyway). But we might see the overnight SYD-HKG come back. CX seems to do well on that sector as it was the first to upgauge to 77W.

I didn't see this covered, but in addition to QF getting 2 more 717s, VA are taking the 2 F100s that QQ are offloading. Virgin Australia and Qantas expand regional fleets as rivals struggle
The same article details that PER pax are down 9.6% for May 2015 and movements are down 18.2%. The mining slowdown is affecting WA air traffic quite hard it seems.

tullamarine · Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 60):
I didn't see this covered, but in addition to QF getting 2 more 717s, VA are taking the 2 F100s that QQ are offloading. Virgin Australia and Qantas expand regional fleets as rivals struggle

It does appear that the smaller airlines will continue to struggle as VA and QF become more aggressive in the charter space which they are able to cross-sell to corporate clients as a component of a company-wide travel contract that covers both charter and scheduled services.

Where this all ends up is an unknown but it is likely that airlines such as Alliance and REx will eventually be absorbed by one or other of the majors. For REx, this would be going full-circle given it spun out of AN when that group went under.

qf2220 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 61):
Where this all ends up is an unknown but it is likely that airlines such as Alliance and REx will eventually be absorbed by one or other of the majors. For REx, this would be going full-circle given it spun out of AN when that group went under.

Could we instead see some regional consolidation? Surely some synergies exist between them. Skippers + Alliance maybe, just to throw something out there? REX has kind of done it by replacement, eg the Qld regulated routes. Id think that there could be scope to rationalise fleets and fleet types too with larger scale so that the costs can come down somewhat.

vhebb · Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:17 am

QF are getting 2 more F-100s before the end of the year and 2 more B717s early in the new year.

qfvhoqa · Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 61):
It does appear that the smaller airlines will continue to struggle as VA and QF become more aggressive in the charter space which they are able to cross-sell to corporate clients as a component of a company-wide travel contract that covers both charter and scheduled services.

QF & VA will also start to see diminishing returns from expanding charter/regional operations. There's quite a few smaller routes they wouldn't bother with, so QQ/ZL/TL may need to retreat to smaller markets.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 61):
Where this all ends up is an unknown but it is likely that airlines such as Alliance and REx will eventually be absorbed by one or other of the majors.

TL & ZL seem to have complimentary networks and are primarily turboprop operators, so there could be some consolidation among the smaller players. NC being tied to their QFLink operations will keep them afloat for a while, but I hear rumours that QF is looking to transfer 717 flying to Sunstate or Eastern.

aryonoco · Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:56 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 51):
Malcolm Turnbull seems to catch a few trains, although I suppose it's probably for the novelty given he probably has a fleet of his own luxury cars (and chauffeurs) to choose from.

Doesn't he actually commute on public transport most days? He makes a point of tweeting his observations on PT generally. The other day he actually tweeted step by step how to go from Melbourne to Geelong on public transport. It was quite funny.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he has access to a whole lot of luxury cars, but still interesting.

csturdiv · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:07 am

On Monday I had a co-worker from our Chicago office arrive in our Sydney office. When talking with him, he was on a similar flight schedule that I was on when I came down here, leaving on a Saturday evening and landing in Sydney on a Monday morning and heading into the office after leaving the airport. Not a great way to spend the weekend. He flew QF8 DFW-SYD and indicated that QF left his luggage, and others paxs luggage as well, behind. Is this very common on that flight? Is the DFW-SYD flight pushing the A388 to the limit? And if it is somewhat common, why could they not take all the luggage and do a tech stop?

QF175 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:23 am

According to Travel Daily (04AUG15) Indonesia AirAsia X will launch flights from Denpasar / Bali to Sydney in October. Flights are expected to be 5x weekly, will be operated by the airline's fleet of 377-seat A330-300s and should go on sale later in August. The airline has hinted at another destination with speculation this could be Brisbane.

Sarcasm - yay just what we need, more capacity within the already saturated Australia to Indonesia market

TruemanQLD · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:35 am

Quoting QF175 (Reply 67):

According to Travel Daily (04AUG15) Indonesia AirAsia X will launch flights from Denpasar / Bali to Sydney in October. Flights are expected to be 5x weekly, will be operated by the airline's fleet of 377-seat A330-300s and should go on sale later in August. The airline has hinted at another destination with speculation this could be Brisbane.

Brisbane was noted in their last financial reports / presentation as a future destination. Really don't think BNE-DPS can handle JQ (currently 4pw 787), VA (around 10pw 73H) and then Air Asia X... I think VA would (sensibly) fall on their sword...

IndianicWorld · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting QF175 (Reply 67):
Sarcasm - yay just what we need, more capacity within the already saturated Australia to Indonesia market

I would expect that VA will look to exit the DPS market soon, as Air Asia Indonesia Extra flying both MEL (already served) and SYD (coming in Oct) will be eating away at their market position there in a time where VA is still losing money.

Flying B737's on such longer routes is hardly going to be a competitive position when rival carriers are all flying A330 or B787 aircraft. The larger aircraft offer significantly better CASM and a better overall passenger experience than over 6 hours in a single-aisle plane, making VA's task to generate a return on these routes a struggle.

qfvhoqa · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting QF175 (Reply 67):
According to Travel Daily (04AUG15) Indonesia AirAsia X will launch flights from Denpasar / Bali to Sydney in October.

Just in time to carry hundreds of Schoolies to Kuta..

Quoting QF175 (Reply 67):
Sarcasm - yay just what we need, more capacity within the already saturated Australia to Indonesia market

We didn't see a whole lot of adjustment on MEL-DPS when XT started, VA dropped a few frequencies I think. SYD-DPS will probably see the same, VA back to daily.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 68):
Brisbane was noted in their last financial reports / presentation as a future destination.

It's really the only other Australian destination that could possibly support a 377-seat plane to DPS. Unless XT chooses OOL to co-locate with D7?

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 68):
I think VA would (sensibly) fall on their sword...

This should be their response to all their DPS flights..

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 69):
Flying B737's on such longer routes is hardly going to be a competitive position when rival carriers are all flying A330 or B787 aircraft. The larger aircraft offer significantly better CASM and a better overall passenger experience than over 6 hours in a single-aisle plane, making VA's task to generate a return on these routes a struggle.

DPS pax generally aren't concerned with the onboard experience, rather the lowest fare. For those who are looking at the onboard experience, GA offers inflight immigration clearance into DPS, and XT has a better J class than VA's 737s. VA neither has the best onboard experience nor the lowest fares.

[Edited 2015-08-03 21:55:07]

IndianicWorld · Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:58 am

VA's issuie would likely be that Air Asia Indonesia Extra will likely try and upgrade frequencies in the short to medium term on its MEL/SYD-DPS routes which will make life even harder for VA.

VA's issue is that it is not left with many options across its network. It is being outflanked on most fronts.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 70):
It's really the only other Australian destination that could possibly support a 377-seat plane to DPS. Unless XT chooses OOL to co-locate with D7?

OOL really won't make a lot of sense on a route like DPS, given it is an outbound leisure market.

SIN, KUL and NRT are much more inbound focused from OOL, whilst the odd one out is NAN which would likely favour the outbound too but it is only trying to fill a A320 in that case. We will see how successful that last one is.

tullamarine · Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:27 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 69):
Flying B737's on such longer routes is hardly going to be a competitive position when rival carriers are all flying A330 or B787 aircraft. The larger aircraft offer significantly better CASM and a better overall passenger experience than over 6 hours in a single-aisle plane, making VA's task to generate a return on these routes a struggle.

CASM is one thing but if you can't fill the larger plane, it is of no advantage. Off peak season, there have been reports of most operators to DPS going out with very poor load factors. It is probably fair to say that no one is making money on the routes currently. The added capacity is just going to make it worse.

An A330 in a charter configuration flown by Air Asia is not a pleasurable pax experience in Y. Likewise, Air Asia has a fairly good J class seat but the service offering from lounges to catering is pretty average.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 71):
VA's issuie would likely be that Air Asia Indonesia Extra will likely try and upgrade frequencies in the short to medium term on its MEL/SYD-DPS routes which will make life even harder for VA.

VA's issue is that it is not left with many options across its network. It is being outflanked on most fronts.

What Air Asia is engaging in is capacity dumping. It is hoping that some of the existing participants in the market leave. Should they all stay, Air Asia will endure some pretty terrible losses. Air Asia is another airline that proves the truism that medium to long haul LCCs don't make money.

[Edited 2015-08-03 22:58:46]

AirNiugini · Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:46 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 70):
This should be their response to all their DPS flights..

Bali is VA's second largest international market behind NZ according to CAPA... Would they really have so much invested into DPS if it wasn't profitable?

mariner · Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:00 am

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 73):
Bali is VA's second largest international market behind NZ according to CAPA... Would they really have so much invested into DPS if it wasn't profitable?

Seems so:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...after-cost-cutting-20150728-gim1n2

"A focus for shareholders will be Virgin's international operation, which has incurred losses on routes to south-east Asia such as Bali and Thailand this year due to stiff competition."

It's been going on for some time and the betting is that Virgin will put Tiger - on DPS at least - to stem those losses.

"The airline is expected to unveil plans next week to stem the losses, which is likely to involve replacing some Virgin flights on routes to destinations such as Bali with Tigerair services."

mariner

IndianicWorld · Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 73):
Bali is VA's second largest international market behind NZ according to CAPA... Would they really have so much invested into DPS if it wasn't profitable?

It's international flights are struggling, and DPS is said to be a cause of part of those issues.That won;t get any easier for it.

It has tried to hang on by reducing frequencies, but there will be a point that it has to make substantial changes. The operating environment in terms of fuel costs and the appeal of a market like DPS will likely not be any better than it is now, which will start to raise significant questions if returns on the investments made are not made.

The slack that VA has had for a while now will ware off and these types of harder decisions will have to be made by JB sooner rather than later.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 72):
An A330 is a charter configuration flown by Air Asia is not a pleasurable pax experience in Y. Likewise, Air Asia has a fairly good J class seat but the service offering from lounges to catering is pretty average.

Having flown in any single aisled plane for that long, flying such a config can still be a better customer experience.

The A330 is a better fit for East Coast-DPS routes at this stage, with the 737 really not ideally placed on such a mission. Some seats are reportedly left empty to make the range, which further reduces any benefits operating a smaller aircraft may have had.

Sydscott · Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:33 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 74):
It's been going on for some time and the betting is that Virgin will put Tiger - on DPS at least - to stem those losses.

"The airline is expected to unveil plans next week to stem the losses, which is likely to involve replacing some Virgin flights on routes to destinations such as Bali with Tigerair services."

What's interesting is that, from my understanding, TT's A320's are not able to make the range from BNE/SYD/MEL to DPS. So effectively VA is left with handing TT the PER-DPS route along with PER-HKT. Unless VA decides that TT will invest in the NEO or that TT will move to 737's, I don't see how the mechanics of this will work?

AirNiugini · Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:57 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 74):

"The growth of domestic capacity above demand and the weak results from international suggests a more gradual recovery in earnings," he said. "The risk for Virgin is that Qantas is closing the cost gap quicker than expected." -
http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...after-cost-cutting-20150728-gim1n2

Second half of that quote I think is extremely relevant. Virgin has been so slow to act on anything over the last 24 months, and Qantas has moved forward with its transformation at such speed.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 76):

I reckon they should hand over PER/ADL - DPS and PER - HKT to TT, get out of the MEL to DPS market, and reduce BNE and SYD to DPS down to daily

. There must be over 40 VA flights a week to DPS and HKT from Australia... What an amazing amount of resources that must be needed to operate these flights! If they do not make money, then get chopping JB!.

747m8te · Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 71):
OOL really won't make a lot of sense on a route like DPS, given it is an outbound leisure market.

But OOL basically acts as a second airport for Brisbane, especially with people who live on the south side of Brisbane. If the prices are right then nothing stopping people taking cheaper flights out of OOL as it isn't that too much of a drive from Brisbane.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 70):
It's really the only other Australian destination that could possibly support a 377-seat plane to DPS. Unless XT chooses OOL to co-locate with D7?

Yes, OOL could work out well for them, still serving the Brisbane market, but with lower cost than BNE. And using the same ground handler that does D7 would also help lower costs.

IndianicWorld · Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 77):
get out of the MEL to DPS market, and reduce BNE and SYD to DPS down to daily

If MEL-DPS goes, I can see SYD getting the same treatment, especially with Air Asia Indonesia Extra moving onto the latter route also.

BNE-DPS is less competitive but also does not seem to generate the same demand, so it will be interesting to see what moves it makes there.

TT can easily take over PER/ADL-DPS, but without a TT base at either city that will take some added work to facilitate such a move.

777Jet · Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:18 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 78):
But OOL basically acts as a second airport for Brisbane, especially with people who live on the south side of Brisbane. If the prices are right then nothing stopping people taking cheaper flights out of OOL as it isn't that too much of a drive from Brisbane.

Any chance of the Airtrain line ever extending down to the Coolangatta area?

747m8te · Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:36 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 80):
Any chance of the Airtrain line ever extending down to the Coolangatta area?

Who knows, I'm surprised when they built the light rail through the Gold Coast recently they didn't choose to extend it to OOL even, let alone the Airtrain line from BNE, would have thought it would make sense, and isn't that much further either.

TruemanQLD · Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:44 am

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 77):
I reckon they should hand over PER/ADL - DPS and PER - HKT to TT, get out of the MEL to DPS market, and reduce BNE and SYD to DPS down to daily . There must be over 40 VA flights a week to DPS and HKT from Australia... What an amazing amount of resources that must be needed to operate these flights! If they do not make money, then get chopping JB!.

PER-HKT is a very long flight, longer than MEL-DPS so I do not think an A320 could handle it (it would be one of, if not the longest A320 flights). The rest I agree with.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 80):
Any chance of the Airtrain line ever extending down to the Coolangatta area?

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 81):
Who knows, I'm surprised when they built the light rail through the Gold Coast recently they didn't choose to extend it to OOL even, let alone the Airtrain line from BNE, would have thought it would make sense, and isn't that much further either.

The current light rail is no where near OOL, however "long term" initial plans did have it coming down past the airport (I would assume stopping at the airport) but that will be many decades away. Latest plan for light rail is for it to connect to the rail line at Helensvale by 2018 Cth Games (subject to Fed Gov. funding). Heavy rail from Varsity to OOL is likely also a long way off, and probably rightfully so, there is much more important public transport projects needed in SE QLD. OOL has frequent public transport options up to Broadbeach to connect to the light rail and also to Varsity Lakes Train Station (the end of the AirTrain line) - and both of these bus services are at normal fare levels (no special Airport fare). While TZ, D7 and JQ Int might be trying to attract some of the BNE market, this isn't the target market for most of the flights at OOL which are domestic. I would love to see both heavy and light rail connected to the airport, but SE QLD has more important public infrastructure projects to complete first

qf2220 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:59 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 80):

If they ever build the rail connection to OOL id be really interested to see if they do think about connecting the two airports with a train.

BNEFlyer · Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 78):
But OOL basically acts as a second airport for Brisbane, especially with people who live on the south side of Brisbane. If the prices are right then nothing stopping people taking cheaper flights out of OOL as it isn't that too much of a drive from Brisbane.

It does to some extent, but it's more about the LCC's and their fares (and JQ to NRT, though that will probably change now with QF from BNE).

As someone who lives on the southside of Brisbane I have to say that from my perspective and that of my friends who live on the southside too, OOL is not the second airport for Brisbane. I'm in Logan and it's twice as long to get to OOL as it is to BNE, so unless the fare is drastically less, BNE is the better option.

mariner · Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:29 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 76):
What's interesting is that, from my understanding, TT's A320's are not able to make the range from BNE/SYD/MEL to DPS. So effectively VA is left with handing TT the PER-DPS route along with PER-HKT.

People tell me I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the maximum range of the A320 - with an effective commercial payload - is around 2500 US miles, maybe (US) 2600, or just over 4000 km. I don't know of any airline that uses it for greater distances without a capacity penalty.

So yes, I don't see how it can make BNE/SYD/MEL-DPA or PER-HKT, although it could certainly fly PER-DPS.

mariner

AirNiugini · Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:46 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 79):
TT can easily take over PER/ADL-DPS, but without a TT base at either city that will take some added work to facilitate such a move.

Come to think of it - Does any airline operating the Australia - Bali routes make money on it? Given the competition, I wonder if even TT Australia would be able to make it work?

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 84):

100% correct.

allrite · Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 86):
Come to think of it - Does any airline operating the Australia - Bali routes make money on it? Given the competition, I wonder if even TT Australia would be able to make it work?

I do wonder if Bali is worthwhile keeping for loyalty reasons, considering it's such a popular destination. Judging by friends and colleagues who have visited it's not just your typical bogans who are visiting either. It's possible to earn the relevant loyalty points on VA and JQ flights (with the appropriate fare), but it also means that you are keeping passengers on your aircraft rather than losing them to AirAsia and others. This would be particularly important for Jetstar - for VA their international network mostly relies on partners anyway.

I see Jetstar is warning of possible cancellations tomorrow (Wednesday) to Bali due to the volcano again.

AirNiugini · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:18 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 87):
I do wonder if Bali is worthwhile keeping for loyalty reasons, considering it's such a popular destination.

Quoting allrite (Reply 87):
It's possible to earn the relevant loyalty points on VA and JQ flights (with the appropriate fare), but it also means that you are keeping passengers on your aircraft rather than losing them to AirAsia and others.

Yeah that is a good point about loyalty....It just sounds like VA are just getting smashed on DPS. Definitely worth keeping online if they can make it profitable, but if they cannot, hand it over to AirAsia I say. Anyone got any idea on how much connecting traffic VA gets from the South Pacific and NZ onto Bali?

Slight side story about DPS and Loyalty points.... I flew to Bali in February with JQ for $88 each way, added the starter pack and next thing I had 80 status credits hit my account. Cheapest 80 status credits I have ever earned. So stoked!

Speaking of JQ, I wonder how their new TSV/CNS-DPS are going at the moment. Surely this Volcano issue is not helping.

allrite · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:47 pm

Question: As I was passing Turella at 5:17 pm on Tuesday I'm pretty sure I saw an A340 flying northwards out of SYD. I can't seem to find it on FlightAware. Any ideas? Was it some military charter? I thought I saw some colour on it but it may have been the evening light on a white surface - the charter I'm aware of being plain white.

747m8te · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 89):
Question: As I was passing Turella at 5:17 pm on Tuesday I'm pretty sure I saw an A340 flying northwards out of SYD. I can't seem to find it on FlightAware. Any ideas? Was it some military charter? I thought I saw some colour on it but it may have been the evening light on a white surface - the charter I'm aware of being plain white.

Probably the Adagold A340 that flies out of SYD, BNE and DRW with our troops and military personnel to the middle east.

VA82 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 72):
An A330 in a charter configuration flown by Air Asia is not a pleasurable pax experience in Y. Likewise, Air Asia has a fairly good J class seat but the service offering from lounges to catering is pretty average.

Have to agree after just returning from a trip on AirAsiaX that its not the most comfortable way to spend 8+ hours and pretty average is an understatement as far as catering goes. However, I did find it much more comfortable than Scoot...a head rest goes a really long way! And really not that much better than Cebu Pacific (especially having to self connect through SYD). It will be interesting to see how it compares to JQ's 787 later in the week

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 84):
I'm in Logan and it's twice as long to get to OOL as it is to BNE, so unless the fare is drastically less, BNE is the better option.

Absolutely, my friends and I are all open to either airport, but unless OOL is a reasonable amount (say maybe $50 for the trip) then BNE it is! AirAsiaX and Scoot are OOL's biggest draw cards for me personally.

QF175 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 89):
Question: As I was passing Turella at 5:17 pm on Tuesday I'm pretty sure I saw an A340 flying northwards out of SYD. I can't seem to find it on FlightAware. Any ideas? Was it some military charter? I thought I saw some colour on it but it may have been the evening light on a white surface - the charter I'm aware of being plain white.

I think you likely saw Hifly A340-300 CS-TQY operating for Adagold:

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allrite · Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 90):
Probably the Adagold A340 that flies out of SYD, BNE and DRW with our troops and military personnel to the middle east.

Thanks! I was thinking it must be, but in the evening light it was difficult to be sure, especially as I thought I could see a pattern on it. I've seen the Adagold A340 overhead at North Ryde plenty of times.

QF175 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:14 pm

JETGO

JetGo Australia to add more ERJ-145s

According to ch-aviation, JetGo has signed an agreement to take an undisclosed number of ERJ-145s, with delivery expected sometime in 2016. Interestingly the article goes on to say that the airline will add a total of 3 ERJ-140LRs as soon as the aircraft have been certified by CASA. All of these aircraft will join JetGo's existing fleet of 3 ERJ-135 aircraft currently operating a mix of charter and RPT services and from next month scheduled flights Townsville-Rockhampton-Gold Coast.

QANTAS - BRISBANE TO TOKYO

Qantas has said it is really pleased with the forward bookings for its new Brisbane-Tokyo and return service:

Source - AusBT

Quote:
The Brisbane-Tokyo flights were initially slated to run only four times a week, with another city to pick up the other three days, but Qantas’ Regional General Manager for Queensland Peter Collyns said strong support from Brisbane Airport, Tourism & Events Queensland and chamber of commerce organisations saw Qantas move to lock in the daily service.

“A seven day schedule offers greater certainly for travellers, and for the business traveller in particular if gives them the flexibility they need.”

Collyns told Australian Business Traveller that passenger uptake on both legs of the new route are already strong.

“We’re really happy with the loadings, and the inbound loads are performing really well – actually inbound from Japan we already have some really good numbers coming through.”

Continues...

QANTAS - BRISBANE INTERNATIONAL LOUNGE

Source - AusBT

While the article doesn't give away too much information, Qantas has tipped it will embark on a substantial expansion of its Brisbane lounge:

Quote:
Collyns confirms that an upgrade for the Brisbane Airport’s international Qantas lounges is on the way, and tips it will be a substantial one.

“We’ve got a lot of plans, and we’ll see some really good development happening in the next 12-18 months.”

The issue of retaining separate first class and business class lounges or combining them into a single lounge “is one of the questions we’re asking ourselves” Collyns said.

“But you’ve seen what we've done internationally, in Los Angeles and particularly in Hong Kong and Singapore, so I think what we will see here is a really good concept.”

Collyns also hinted at a larger physical footprint for the lounges to cater for higher passenger levels, which will be further buoyed by the daily Brisbane-Narita flight

It must be very busy in the lounge, take Saturdays as example, you have QF Group flights to Denpasar/Bali, Auckland, Queenstown (seasonal), Noumea, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore all departing within the space of a few hours (not factoring in other airlines that may use the lounge such as China Southern, Air Niugini, Solomon Airlines etc.)

[Edited 2015-08-04 07:17:15]

Bluebird191 · Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 84):
As someone who lives on the southside of Brisbane I have to say that from my perspective and that of my friends who live on the southside too, OOL is not the second airport for Brisbane. I'm in Logan and it's twice as long to get to OOL as it is to BNE, so unless the fare is drastically less, BNE is the better option.

I live in Ipswich myself and it's fairly much the same story for me of BNE vs OOL - 50 minutes vs 90-100 minutes, each way. Even longer on the train as well. I've only had one return flight out of OOL, which was back in November 2013 to fly JQ's new 787 (VKA) on it's domestic flights to MEL - flew down on a Friday evening then back on VA in business on the Monday following. Am threatning to take another return flight out of OOL so I can log an A321 for the first time (yes, I'm slow at logging it) but being on a student budget at the moment means it's on hold.

In saying that, I now a full time student at Brisbane Airport, and if I was to drive the petrol alone would cost me $70 each week minimum, compared to $30 for the student fares on the publiic transport. The college is one part of the airport which admittedly has somewhat half decent public transport connections, but this one is the bus service as part of the public transport network, not BNE's orange busses - there are stops directly outside the college, but in the afternoons the bus gets packeed, particularly with the international students (barring the Saudi's who drive their Toyota Camry's), but it would mean a half hour wait if I wanted a quieter bus lol.

ZuluAlpha · Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting QF175 (Reply 94):
It must be very busy in the lounge, take Saturdays as example, you have QF Group flights to Denpasar/Bali, Auckland, Queenstown (seasonal), Noumea, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore all departing within the space of a few hours (not factoring in other airlines that may use the lounge such as China Southern, Air Niugini, Solomon Airlines etc.)

Except for the JQ service to DPS and the weekend NOU and seasonal ZQN flights, you'll find all those other QF services are daily, Seeing the lounge first hand for the 'morning rush hour' at the International terminal, the QF lounge is bursting. The revamp IMO is well and truly overdue and can't come soon enough !

RyanairGuru · Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:40 pm

Agreed, the BNE lounge can't even cope with just LAX, HKG and SIN, anything else is the icing on the cake. It's great that QF51 is being retimed to a 12:00 departure as it will both reduce lounge congestion and will be better times for connections over SIN.

AirNiugini · Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 97):

What is the Mezzanine level above the QF club used for? It looks like a waste of good lounge space...

Thai77w · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:53 am

QF51 being retimed is also because of gate congestion at the International terminal. It's not uncommon to see NZ sit on the taxiway for 25 mins waiting for a gate to clear. On the busiest days there is at least one QF 333 at the old terminal or stand off bay getting serviced due to lack of gates.

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