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DeltaMD90
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 49):
I have a really hard time understanding why someone would try to hide the plane in the first place, but risk being discovered by planting evidence in the ocean.

Seriously. Most of these conspiracy theories would take so much more coordination and secrecy than simply accomplishing their nefarious plan in the million of other simpler ways.

Like for example, they went through all the effort they did to hijack, hide, and evade intelligence authorities so they could use the plane in a terrorist attack... why couldn't this entity just hijack a plane and use it? Pick any conspiracy theory and I could come up with a thousand easier, less boneheaded plans to accomplish it.
 
Rara
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting trintocan (Reply 25):
Modern aircraft simply do not lose control surfaces - or any components for that matter - spontaneously inflight. I once read that the force needed to break a 777 wing - which would almost certainly have to occur to allow a flaperon to fall off - is so high that an explosion would occur as it did so.

Apparently it happens more often than one may think. I remember that last year, someone near FRA saw a Korean 747 lose a flap on approach. This in itself may not seem too remarkable, but when they search the woods under the approach path, they didn't only find the 747's flap, but even more plane debris that no-one knew had been there.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/flugz...fen-im-wald-entdeckt-a-997950.html
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sovietjet
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 22):
I really hope they can find MH370 soon. This is big news for the search.
Quoting Miami (Reply 29):
I think the 'closure' would come when they finally find the aircraft itself.

Will it? Call me pessimistic but even if they find the aircraft it seems almost hopeless the truth will be found. Doesn’t the CVR only record for 2 hours? In that case it would have looped over the initial change in course that happened 7 hours prior to the crash. We will never know what was said or done in the cockpit initially. This just frustrates me. How hard is it to make a device record more than 2 hours? Flash memory is super cheap, and a few GBs can hold hours and hours of voice recording. My phone can record longer for crying out loud. I think the whole truth will never be found. At most, the FDR will be found showing exactly where it flew but it won’t tell us why. To the families of the victims this won’t be very good closure.
 
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Aaron747
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:18 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 51):
Apparently it happens more often than one may think. I remember that last year, someone near FRA saw a Korean 747 lose a flap on approach.

Simple physics tells you the most likely phase of flight in which to have parts detach the aircraft are in takeoff and landing, when there are large amounts of vibration and aerodynamic stress in the heavy air of the surface. Throw in a wind gust or two for added fun if you like.

We're talking about losing these surfaces in cruise, aren't we? Parts like the B777 flaperon do not simply 'come off'. We're not talking about a slotted flap section that jiggled loose during a gusty approach.
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WingedMigrator
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 52):
the FDR will be found showing exactly where it flew but it won’t tell us why

The FDR would tell us a whole lot more than just where it flew. It would tell us the state of numerous systems on board and allow a conclusive determination of whether that state arose from deliberate actions and inputs in the cockpit (e.g. hijacking) or an unexpected event on board (e.g. smoke/fire, explosion, etc.). The FDR is the key to the whole mystery and almost the sole reason why ships are still searching the ocean today.
 
flightless
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 35):
Sorry to be THAT guy but say the plane was flown to Baikonur as a few (tin foil hats) propose. Couldn't I simply take off a part here or there, say a flaperon, and fly it to the Indian Ocean, drop it in the water and hope it washes up somewhere some 18 months later?

If you flew a MH777 to Baikonur, it would land undamaged. Then you'd need to find some other way to add damage which is appropriate to ditching; since there are no ditched MH777 aircraft available, you're going to have to take another aircraft and ditch it. (One that experienced some other mishap - such as being shot down - is of no use.) Then you have to conceal from the world that in fact, 2 MH777's are missing, conceal the search and recovery effort for the second one which was ditched...

Once one starts imagining conspiracies, all safety nets are gone. The ocean of stupidity has no bottom.

[Edited 2015-08-05 16:32:00]
 
liquidair
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:47 pm

I await the find of the actual wreckage and black boxes.

Until then it's an MH flap from a 777, of which two were downed consecutively.

Not necessarily endorsing conspiracy theories, but I certainly won't draw any conclusions from this.

And I'm not sure I like the timing of the Malaysian announcement vs the French.
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting SuperSix2 (Reply 33):
Thats slightly strange, what 'markings' could that possibly be? Apart from a specific serial number tieing the part to MH370 which was not mentioned in the Press announcement.

Obviously airplane parts get damaged occasionally during regular ops and this part presumably had specific repairs performed to it while the frame was operated by MH that were apparent during the analysis of the part.

Think of it like dental records during an autopsy.
 
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:06 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 45):
It is the right wing flaperon.

That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?
Kindly use the terminology 'starboard' or 'port' to clear this up.
 
sovietjet
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 54):
It would tell us the state of numerous systems on board and allow a conclusive determination of whether that state arose from deliberate actions and inputs in the cockpit (e.g. hijacking) or an unexpected event on board (e.g. smoke/fire, explosion, etc.).

Possibly, but I am very doubtful. Even if it shows systems getting turned off deliberately it doesn't tell us more than that. The CVR would have recorded any signs of a struggle in the cockpit during this time. For example, the CVR was much more crucial in the hijacking of he Germanwings crash.
 
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:22 am

You may be interested in some of the ocean current modelling done by CSIRO that shows that it's highly conceivable that the flap may have come from the designated MH370 search area.

What does our ocean modeling tell us about the fate of flight MH370?
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777Jet
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:36 am

Quoting ap305 (Reply 21):
The Inmarsat people must be relieved after all flack they took for their calculations.....

The conspiracy theorists did make some wild claims about the Inmarsat data, including ridiculous claims that if the data wasn't 'spoofed' by 'bag guys' then Inmarsat 'could have been in on it'...  

After more analysis hopefully investigators can now get a better idea of where on the final ping arc the flight most probably ended.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 56):
Until then it's an MH flap from a 777, of which two were downed consecutively.Not necessarily endorsing conspiracy theories, but I certainly won't draw any conclusions from this.

Would it help if you saw the two falperons from MH17 -(assuming they have been recovered and are identifiable)- side by side in a photo with this flaperon from MH370?  
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:48 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 58):
Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 45):It is the right wing flaperon.
That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?

I'm sure they mean right as in starboard as in over the pilot's right shoulder while he's seated.
 
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting trintocan (Reply 25):
Modern aircraft simply do not lose control surfaces - or any components for that matter - spontaneously inflight

Well, there was the 748F missing 8M of wing over Alaska last year and N670US popping into LHR with a big chunk of Slat missing on July 10th (Pic is actually on this database), they are the most recent ones I can think off......
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dragon6172
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 58):
That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?
Kindly use the terminology 'starboard' or 'port' to clear this up.

Are there really people on an aviation enthusiast forum who are confused about which wing a part is from when told it came from the right wing?
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777Jet
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting trintocan (Reply 25):
Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 12):There has been something nagging me since this started. It has been stated that it never goes unreported that a 777 lost it's inboard control surface...does that mean it was unreported or it just didn't get noticed on here? Is it still possible we just missed it and it did in fact come off another 777 at some point in the last few months/years?

Modern aircraft simply do not lose control surfaces - or any components for that matter - spontaneously inflight. I once read that the force needed to break a 777 wing - which would almost certainly have to occur to allow a flaperon to fall off - is so high that an explosion would occur as it did so.
Quoting cougar15 (Reply 63):
Quoting trintocan (Reply 25):Modern aircraft simply do not lose control surfaces - or any components for that matter - spontaneously inflight

Well, there was the 748F missing 8M of wing over Alaska last year and N670US popping into LHR with a big chunk of Slat missing on July 10th (Pic is actually on this database), they are the most recent ones I can think off......

  

It is true that control surfaces can separate from aircraft in-flight.

Now to address the earlier quoted posts: Since the experts have confirmed that the flaperon is from a MH 777 based on markings / documentation, unless another MH 777 lost a flaperon inflight somewhere over the Indian Ocean, sometime ago consistent with the age of the sea life found attached to it, it is now pretty obvious that this flaperon is from 9M-MRO's last flight  
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting dragon6172 (Reply 64):
Are there really people on an aviation enthusiast forum who are confused about which wing a part is from when told it came from the right wing?

Pedants will be pedantic.
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irelayer
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 65):
Now to address the earlier quoted posts: Since the experts have confirmed that the flaperon is from a MH 777 based on markings / documentation, unless another MH 777 lost a flaperon inflight somewhere over the Indian Ocean, sometime ago consistent with the age of the sea life found attached to it, it is now pretty obvious that this flaperon is from 9M-MRO's last flight

Wouldn't losing something like a flaperon be a big deal? If so, wouldn't these things be recorded. And then, wouldn't we be able to cross-reference that with all of the other maintenance records and come to a reasonable educated conclusion?

I should think so...

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747megatop
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 56):
Until then it's an MH flap from a 777, of which two were downed consecutively.

Why not stretch your thoery further? It could very well be a flaperon

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 63):
Quoting trintocan (Reply 25):
Modern aircraft simply do not lose control surfaces - or any components for that matter - spontaneously inflight

Well, there was the 748F missing 8M of wing over Alaska last year and N670US popping into LHR with a big chunk of Slat missing on July 10th (Pic is actually on this database), they are the most recent ones I can think off......

When modern arcraft can crap out entire engines from the sky then why not control surfaces? Evergreen Airlines out of ANC;Kalitta air over Michigan; El Al 1862 are 3 that come to mind that dropped entire engines. Some may say that they are designed to shear off but the point being that under the right conditions when the desing limits are exceeded or due to other defects things do fall off but luckily such incidents are rare.
 
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 56):
Until then it's an MH flap from a 777, of which two were downed consecutively.

What, the Russians took MH17's from Ukraine and threw it in the Indian Ocean? Seriously?

The investigators are not stupid. They just don't see a flaperon and simply say "well, the only 777 flaperon we can't account for so it must be MH370" (which honestly, is almost enough proof anyone would need IMO.) They have experts that can analyze the flaperon and conclude things from it like how it detached, what kind of impacts it experienced, how long it was in the water and what water it originated from (due to the barnacles and other factors,) etc

I can't believe some of the lack of critical thinking that is going on here, throwing out wild theories like they're equally probable without stopping to think of ways to verify the going theory and reasons why their pet conspiracy theory makes no sense at all. Not specifically calling you our liquidair, but I hope you don't honestly think this could have come from MH17. Pondering on that for 30 seconds should give anyone enough reasons to figure out why that doesn't make any sense and how it's easily verified to not be MH17's. Trust me, the investigators are orders of magnitude more experienced in all this than we will ever be
 
coolian2
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MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:32 am

1. An aircraft losing a piece like that given it's position on the plane and it wouldn't hit social media?
2. If it came from another plane, WE may not know about it, but you think the airline it came from wouldn't have come forward quietly by now?

That said I take the Malaysian announcement with a silo of salt.
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:29 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 58):
That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?
Kindly use the terminology 'starboard' or 'port' to clear this up.

Early in my over 40 year aviation career, I flew a lovely little British airliner called the De Havilland Heron - 16 passengers, two pilots and four piston engines! One of it's many quirks was instead of numbering the engines left to right 1,2,3 and 4 as the simple minded Americans did, the Flight Manual and cockpit placards referenced the Port Outer, Port Inner, Starboard Inner and Starboard Outer engines, which seemed a needlessly wordy and pedantic approach to the issue. Your post, which apparently has you confused over right actually meaning right and left actually meaning left brings interesting insight into the engineering mindset of a very interesting aircraft I flew long ago.

Oh, and I've never seen a Boeing, Douglas, Fokker, McDonnell Douglas, Embraer or Airbus Flight Manual that mentions Port or Starboard.

Not to say they don't exist somewhere.
 
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 68):
When modern arcraft can crap out entire engines from the sky then why not control surfaces? Evergreen Airlines out of ANC;Kalitta air over Michigan; El Al 1862 are 3 that come to mind that dropped entire engines.

With all due respect, these incidents are not at all relevant to the discussion. With the above 20+ year-old 747s, you're talking about a troubled JT9D pylon design that gave many operators issues, compounded by metal fatigue and severe mountain wave turbulence at ANC(!) how is this relevant to modern-day control surfaces and their integrity? Just not seeing it.

This type of question is a fallacy of presupposition.



[Edited 2015-08-05 20:38:36]
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747megatop
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:36 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 69):
What, the Russians took MH17's from Ukraine and threw it in the Indian Ocean? Seriously?

But hand grew barnacles before that in a tank filled with salt water so as not to arouse suspicions ...ha ha ha LoL. The thories get interesting. Some people don't want to believe facts even when the facts are presented to them.
 
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting irelayer (Reply 67):
Wouldn't losing something like a flaperon be a big deal? If so, wouldn't these things be recorded. And then, wouldn't we be able to cross-reference that with all of the other maintenance records and come to a reasonable educated conclusion?I should think so...

I think, and hope, so too!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 69):
Quoting liquidair (Reply 56):Until then it's an MH flap from a 777, of which two were downed consecutively.What, the Russians took MH17's from Ukraine and threw it in the Indian Ocean? Seriously?

LOL

I don't think the flaperon from a 777 that was blown apart at altitude would look like the one just found, but then again, the bad guys could have manipulated it and attached lab harvested sea life to it before they planted it... j/k LOL  

IMHO there was little doubt from the onset of the origins of this flaperon.
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:45 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 58):
That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?
Kindly use the terminology 'starboard' or 'port' to clear this up.

When I started in aviation, I was told to always act as if you're in the captain's seat when referring to certain parts of the aircraft - thus when referring to left/right, you are always using it in the sense that you are seated in the aircraft facing forward. Hence why doors are marked L1 (left), R1 (right), and so on, and why engine designations start with left-hand outboard being engine 1 - obviously none of these would change simply because someone may be facing the rear of the aircraft. Right wing = the wing on a person's right when seated normally.
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting dragon6172 (Reply 64):
Are there really people on an aviation enthusiast forum who are confused about which wing a part is from when told it came from the right wing?

I wonder what arm they would raise if asked to raise their right arm  
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:04 am

Forgive me if this has been brought up before, but the thing that intrigues me about the finding of the flaperon is what good shape it is in. I'm happy we are starting to find items from the aircraft, but if the contact with the water was seriously violent (relatively) the plane would have completely broken up . That would I think have resulted in quite a bit of floating debris and the flaperon would not be the first find. Additionally, I think the flaperon is in incredibly good shape with the exception of the trailing edge. The pictures seem to show it mostly intact with the exception of the material behind the rear spar.

What this suggests to my minds eye is MH370 was ditched. I believe the damage to the flaperon is consistent with damage that would occur if the flaperon was extended for landing and subsequently touched the water causing the trailing edge to separate from the flaperon and then the flaperon itself separating from the wing. If through the ditching process the plane stayed relatively intact and subsequently sunk as basically one complete unit, this would explain why we haven't found more flotsam & jetsam. It would also add credibility to those who think who ever is responsible purposely wanted the plane to never be discovered because a plane that could be ditched and stay intact would not be spread out over the surface of the water. I am thinking when they find MH370 they will find it mostly all in the same area and not widely scattered over the bottom. They still have an unbelievably difficult job finding the wreckage.
 
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting Yakflyer (Reply 77):
What this suggests to my minds eye is MH370 was ditched. I believe the damage to the flaperon is consistent with damage that would occur if the flaperon was extended for landing and subsequently touched the water causing the trailing edge to separate from the flaperon and then the flaperon itself separating from the wing. If through the ditching process the plane stayed relatively intact and subsequently sunk as basically one complete unit, this would explain why we haven't found more flotsam & jetsam. It would also add credibility to those who think who ever is responsible purposely wanted the plane to never be discovered because a plane that could be ditched and stay intact would not be spread out over the surface of the water. I am thinking when they find MH370 they will find it mostly all in the same area and not widely scattered over the bottom. They still have an unbelievably difficult job finding the wreckage.

I would not disagree with any of those ideas.

In fact, I agree with them all!  

Let's wait for a while and see if more debris are discovered or not, and then what can be assumed from that.  
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 58):

That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?
Kindly use the terminology 'starboard' or 'port' to clear this up.

When someone says "raise your right hand" do you ask "right from my perspective or yours?" No. Right is right, left is left, port and starboard have been largely removed from standard aviation phraseology for quite a while now.
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:38 am

Quoting Yakflyer (Reply 77):
What this suggests to my minds eye is MH370 was ditched.

The damage equally well could suggest mid-air separation induced by flutter during a high-speed spiral dive. Microscopic examination of the damage to the trailing edge will clear that up.
 
lancelot07
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting Yakflyer (Reply 77):
I'm happy we are starting to find items from the aircraft, but if the contact with the water was seriously violent (relatively) the plane would have completely broken up . That would I think have resulted in quite a bit of floating debris and the flaperon would not be the first find. Additionally, I think the flaperon is in incredibly good shape with the exception of the trailing edge. The pictures seem to show it mostly intact with the exception of the material behind the rear spar.

It is pure luck that the flaperon was found at all. Just imagine what if it was washed ashore on some lonely African beach far away from people, or not washed ashore at all.

As a movable part of the wing, it should come loose with much less force than necessary to break the wing apart. And yes, it seems to be in fairly good shape, but that does not mean too much - so was the fin from AF447.
 
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:42 am

It looks like we might be looking at a low-energy crash:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-plane-glided-not-crashed-into-sea

Quote:
“That piece maintained its integrity. It’s not crushed,” Feith, a former senior investigator with the NTSB, said by phone from Denver. “You can deduce it was either a low-energy crash or a low-energy intentional ditching.”

And:

Quote:
“The speculation among pilots right now is that it must have come down at a relatively shallow angle,” said Tracy Lamb, an aviation safety consultant and former Boeing 737 pilot. “It looks like the flaperon was broken off by the engine pod ripping off as it was dragged through the water on the initial impact.”

“A nose-first plunge is unlikely, in my opinion, since the part is too big and intact for that,” he said by phone. A higher-energy impact would tend to disintegrate large objects like the flaperon found on Reunion: “Such a plunge should have resulted in the plane being shattered into smaller pieces.”
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LHRlocal
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:10 am

So sky news are reporting an aircraft window has also be found on Reunion:

http://news.sky.com/story/1531097/pl...dow-found-near-mh370-flaperon-site

LHRlocal
 
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:16 am

Quoting lhrlocal (Reply 83):
So sky news are reporting an aircraft window has also be found on Reunion:

http://news.sky.com/story/1531097/pl...dow-found-near-mh370-flaperon-site

LHRlocal

The Malaysians are going off the reservation yet again see

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/06/world/mh370-investigation/

the french investigators wont even acknowledge that parts possibly from MH370 have been found.
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washingtonflyer
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:42 am

Reports of a window pane and seat cushions via CNN...
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:56 am

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 85):

Reports of a window pane and seat cushions via CNN...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...details-plane-s-final-moments.html

I think the "window pane" was already identified:

http://www.tgrantphoto.com/sales/sc_images/products/748_large_image.jpg
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
AR385
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:57 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 35):
Sorry to be THAT guy but say the plane was flown to Baikonur as a few (tin foil hats) propose. Couldn't I simply take off a part here or there, say a flaperon, and fly it to the Indian Ocean, drop it in the water and hope it washes up somewhere some 18 months later?

I think it is time to stop with this BS. Not only it is disrespectful to the entire people who have the dedicated hours and hours to find the aircraft, but to those who lost their life and their families. To still keep coming up with this type of idiotic, nonsensical ideas, so as just to post something on a.net is just really demeaning, at this stage. Please let´s stop with these tin foil hat B movie type delusions.

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 38):
The french prosecutor was a bit reserved. But they certainly will need further analysis to get out all conceivable information from that flaperon. It is the first clue in over a year.

I suppose that the available evidence was handed to the Malaysians and they decided it was enough to make their announcement in the way they did. The French on the other need to meet, by law, certain criteria in order to be able to say the same. I´m pretty sure this is what happened.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 52):
Will it? Call me pessimistic but even if they find the aircraft it seems almost hopeless the truth will be found. Doesn’t the CVR only record for 2 hours? In that case it would have looped over the initial change in course that happened 7 hours prior to the crash. We will never know what was said or done in the cockpit initially. This just frustrates me. How hard is it to make a device record more than 2 hours? Flash memory is super cheap, and a few GBs can hold hours and hours of voice recording. My phone can record longer for crying out loud. I think the whole truth will never be found. At most, the FDR will be found showing exactly where it flew but it won’t tell us why. To the families of the victims this won’t be very good closure.

I think they both now can record more than 2 hrs. Or is it only the FDR?

Quoting awthompson (Reply 58):
That answer doesn't help.
'Right' from a pilot or passenger's perspective or 'right' when looking at the aircraft front on?
Kindly use the terminology 'starboard' or 'port' to clear this up.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 66):
Pedants will be pedantic.
Quoting dragon6172 (Reply 64):
Are there really people on an aviation enthusiast forum who are confused about which wing a part is from when told it came from the right wing?

A.net, which I love, has to be one of those places where somebody genuinely tries to help someone by giving an educated answer to a question and you can just count to three, and voila! Somebody will swoop in to DEMAND that that helpful answer, written without any self interest but only to happily share info and one´s knowledge has to be put down and RUDELY CORRECTED because some obscure terminology is not used. Even though EVERYBODY, plus the canary, understood the original answer... *sigh* So sad...Just because the keyboard is there, does not mean it HAS TO BE USED.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 59):
Even if it shows systems getting turned off deliberately it doesn't tell us more than that.

But then again, once that is found out, is there really much more to know? If that is the case it would be obvious that the plane´s systems were not at fault and that there is nothing to correct, so I don´t think that once after finding out if the systems were turned off deliberately, there is much more value in the rest of the info. Not in this case. If it is there then wonderful. But I am not sure it is at all that valuable.
 
AIRWALK
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:11 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 87):
I think they both now can record more than 2 hrs. Or is it only the FDR?

The CVR has a recording capacity of at least two hours in standard quality, and 30 minutes in high quality. FDR 25 hours
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 69):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 74):

Honestly, do I think the part is from MH17? No.

But what I'm saying is that this whole tragic episode has been marred by contradiction after contradiction and I wouldn't be surprised if there were another twist.

The news that other bits may have been found further confuses the issue...

I just fail to believe that if there were floating debris, that nobody would have been able to pick it up either via satellites or ships...
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
markalot
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:41 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 89):
I just fail to believe that if there were floating debris, that nobody would have been able to pick it up either via satellites or ships...

Do the math. Take a small plot of land, take the size of the Indian Ocean. Estimate the size of a debris field and a typical piece of debris, then size it down to fit the plot of land.

There is no confusion in my mind, flaperons don't just fall off planes and wash up on shore. The fact one did wash up indicates that a debris field is near and we will most likely find more and more debris as the days go on.

In my opinion.
M a r k
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting markalot (Reply 90):

I'll do the maths once I have a perfect and infallible equation to work to.

In the meanwhile, perhaps I'm not explaining myself very well.

I do believe it is from MH370, but I await the rest of the evidence for final confirmation- I'm basically trusting the French statement over the Malaysian.

With regards to the debris field... Sorry, but I really do believe that our technology would be able to detect said debris beforehand, even perhaps the ditching (if that's what it was).

I've read that the geniuses that predict and document ocean currents had suggested that this would be a possibility- debris washing up around this time in this area.

Would I be unreasonable to ask, considering the vast sums of money spent so far in the search, that the powers that be could have perhaps chartered a small vessel to follow this predicted current movement?

Or are we going to ridicule that idea as being outlandish.. Whilst trawling the depths is a far easier option?
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
lancelot07
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 91):
With regards to the debris field... Sorry, but I really do believe that our technology would be able to detect said debris beforehand, even perhaps the ditching (if that's what it was).

The technology is most certainly not the problem. But nobody is watching the southern Indian Ocean. There is nothing of interest there. Btw, at the time - after the search moved to the SIO 2 weeks after the crash-, civilian satellite images were shown, with lots of debris and the crowns of waves on them. But nothing could be identified as being from MH370. There is obviously a lot of junk floating around in the oceans, called garbage patch.

I don't think your idea with a vessel would have worked because even a small vessel will drift very differently because of its largher exposure to wind. We have to expect that the debris is widely dispersed. Placing airplane parts into the sea might have worked. But please keep in mind that it is very lucky that this flaperon was washed ashore in the tiny island of La Reunion where they clean the beaches. Imagine thousands of miles of sparsely populated or unpopulated parts of the african coast, where nobody is there to look.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:47 pm

Can the mods put a stop to speculation on why MH370 crashed? There is already another thread where this conversation is taking place and if the tin hat posse would like to continue to grace us with their conspiracies, can a thread be created in the non-av section? These theories are completely detracting from the quality of this thread and message board. Thanks
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 92):
I don't think your idea with a vessel would have worked because even a small vessel will drift very differently because of its largher exposure to wind

Sorry, I meant a small boat which could've actively scoured the area, not just a vessel.

But you make a valid point about the amount of junk in the ocean- however, if the impact was a low speed ditching as hypothesised, wouldn't you expect larger pieces of debris to be floating at first?
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
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bikerthai
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:01 pm

Yes scanning the depth looking for a large stationary object is easier than scanning the ocean surface looking for small moving objects that are scattered among the ocean trash. Then if you do find the floating stuff in the location predicted through current flow analysis, you would still have to go back and scan the ocean depth.

It is easy to say that we should have the technology to do this. It is harder to find the resources, money, time and manpower to do it. Heck how many years and how much resource did it take for the US to find Bin Laden?

Bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
markalot
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 91):
Or are we going to ridicule that idea as being outlandish.. Whilst trawling the depths is a far easier option?

I'm not ridiculing the idea, I think I am being very direct when I say that the vast amount of ocean in that area is being greatly underestimated and in my opinion it's just not feasible. The closer you get to the ocean to look the more data you have to look at, and the numbers are simply overwhelming.

Use google maps and zoom out until you can see the UK and the Indian Ocean. Pick a point to search, put a boat out there, and imagine how much ground you can cover.

With satellite images the technology can get close, but not as close as a boat. Even if it could there would be terabytes of data to sift through, either with our eyes or with some computer algorithm that would probably not be able to distinguish garbage from aircraft parts.

I'm not saying this isn't a worthy goal someday, but IMO we aren't there yet.
M a r k
 
lancelot07
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 94):
however, if the impact was a low speed ditching as hypothesised, wouldn't you expect larger pieces of debris to be floating at first?

Yes, but the search in the southern Indian ocean only started 2 weeks and a storm after the crash, and then the search area was changed again a week later. So at first, nobody looked there.
I don't think larger pieces would remain afloat that long, because large pieces are much more likely to be severely damaged, fill with water and sink soon.
 
RedChili
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 91):
Would I be unreasonable to ask, considering the vast sums of money spent so far in the search, that the powers that be could have perhaps chartered a small vessel to follow this predicted current movement?

Or are we going to ridicule that idea as being outlandish.. Whilst trawling the depths is a far easier option?

Both options are like looking for a needle in a haystack. The advantage with finding the main fuselage needle on the bottom of the ocean is that it will likely tell us what went wrong with MH370, while the floating debris needle will probably not give us much certain information.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
B777fan
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RE: MH370 Flap Found In La Réunion - Part 4

Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 91):
Would I be unreasonable to ask, considering the vast sums of money spent so far in the search, that the powers that be could have perhaps chartered a small vessel to follow this predicted current movement?

Yes it would. The 'debris field' after this length of time is not some small concentrated area. Assuming there is other floating debris, all of the pieces could be separated buy hundreds or thousands of miles by now.

For example, the flaperon may have initially been floating next to an item that had a much larger sail area so it caught the wind differently and moved quickly away from the flaperon. It is then possible, that because of that separation it caught a different eddy current from the flaperon and took a path that literally put a thousand miles between it and the flaperon when the flaperon was found. This isn't just possible, it is likely.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 91):
Sorry, but I really do believe that our technology would be able to detect said debris beforehand

Why do you believe that? First of all, the plane appears to have crashed and the debris floated over a large area of the world were nobody goes and nobody is actively scanning. Second, assuming that a directed long term and costly satellite search had been conducted, we have no automated way to search all of that data and find a piece the size of the flaperon - which could easily be the largest piece of the aircraft to be afloat.

The flaperon is white, and would probably look like one of hundreds of whitecaps per photo.

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