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JerseyFlyer
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:33 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46):
the outside seat has a higher armrest than the neighboring middle seat.

Each seat appears to have its own TWO armrests, not one shared with the neighbour - or am I reading this wrong?
 
rheinwaldner
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:44 am

Would maybe better to make the seats gradually higher from the middle towards the windows...

If you would look over the seats from behind the whole cabin would look like a very gentle bowl....
Many things are difficult, all things are possible!
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:40 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46):
Many of the naysayers are missing an important detail clearly shown if one zooms in on the outside seat. It is not in line with the seat next to it. It is partially staggered so that the outside seat has a higher armrest than the neighboring middle seat.

This was mentioned in the OP, reply #1 and in virtually every other post in the thread.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Additionally both window seats will be positioned higher to offer the same comfort as the other seats.
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
Who is going to want to sit in a high chair! I

I think everybody has noticed this detail. It is just a question of whether one thinks it makes sense or not.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
Max Q
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:47 am

It will be a great time to sit in those window seats with your legs dangling like a 3 year old in a high chair..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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offloaded
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 53):

They'll be fine for tall people. All they'll need to do is put an extra step in the check-in process: height. You type your height in, and get assigned a seat accordingly. What could possibly go wrong?
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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par13del
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:23 am

Quoting offloaded (Reply 54):
They'll be fine for tall people. All they'll need to do is put an extra step in the check-in process: height. You type your height in, and get assigned a seat accordingly. What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing, people are already paying for assigned seats such as the aisle to get out quicker, just an additional revenue source for the airlines, those not willing to pay for Y+ can pay for the windows seat, perhaps 75% of Y+ cost, that's a bargain.
If there is something unique about that seat it is a business opportunity.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:17 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 50):
Each seat appears to have its own TWO armrests, not one shared with the neighbour - or am I reading this wrong?

Only the window seats. I believe there is a staggering.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 52):
This was mentioned in the OP, reply #1 and in virtually every other post in the thread.

But ignored by most of the people who dislike the idea. Hence my naysayers comment.

Lightsaber
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 56):
Only the window seats. I believe there is a staggering.

What staggering? The plan view shows all seats inline longitudinally.

The window seats are raised vertically to give an 18" cushion but only about 14"of foot space.

Or am I only stating the obvious?
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Richard28
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:49 pm

The most interesting aspect of this design is that before they were looking at raising the whole floor level to accommodate 11 across seating, but now with this design, it retains the same floor as the current A380, which will mean (I think) that it can be retrofitted on current A380's.

This might be particularly attractive to the second hand market (i.ex-EK in particular), where there will be frames coming on the market at low capital cost and with a high density option available - this could help make them attractive to some carriers.
 
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IslandRob
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 58):
This might be particularly attractive to the second hand market (i.ex-EK in particular), where there will be frames coming on the market at low capital cost and with a high density option available - this could help make them attractive to some carriers.

But, for such markets, wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense simply to go with slightly narrower seats and thereby skip the whole high chair scenario? -ir
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Viscount724
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 11):
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
Who is going to want to sit in a high chair!

Me!
Having long legs, a higher seat makes a big difference when knee room is limited. Sign me up!

But it can be very uncomfortable if you're shorter than average, especially if your feet don't fit solidly on the floor. Puts pressure on the lower legs and affects blood circulation. Not good for 12 or 14 hours.

I also see potential safety issues with the step up to the window seats. Passengers may not see the step and trip. Could be a problem in an emergency evacuation if window seat passengers forget about the step and trip and fall on their neighbors.
 
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EPA001
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 60):
But it can be very uncomfortable if you're shorter than average, especially if your feet don't fit solidly on the floor. Puts pressure on the lower legs and affects blood circulation. Not good for 12 or 14 hours.

The schematic picture is a bit confusing on this part. On the left it seems they are raising the outer floor also by 1,86". On the right that raising of the outer floor is not visible. If they raise the floor only under the outer seats the potential problem you describe is avoided.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46):
Many of the naysayers are missing an important detail clearly shown if one zooms in on the outside seat. It is not in line with the seat next to it.

In my opinion the problem will be a psychological one more than a physical one.

Most people don't like to stand out in a crowd, and being higher and non aligned, will make this seat, as popular at the middle seat on a 737/320.

Ruscoe
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 49):
why is it that they don't change them???

The side walls of the A380 main deck are thick for a reason. They support the upper deck.
 
afriwing
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 61):
If they raise the floor only under the outer seats the potential problem you describe is avoided.

Exactly! .. Maybe I missed it earlier in the discussion, but I was under the impression that Airbus' original proposal was to raise the floor under the 3-seater sets on each side of the cabin. That would've avoided any awkward anomaly in the seating.

IMHO even better is to add an "extender" piece to the 3-seater railing at floor level on each side of the cabin. This will guarantee no costly change to the structural deck level and only a change to the finished floor level on either side. Afterall the 3-seaters only need to be raised a few inches, so an extension piece to the floor railing can do the job.
Afriwings
 
Prost
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:05 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 62):


Most people don't like to stand out in a crowd, and being higher and non aligned, will make this seat, as popular at the middle seat on a 737/320.

Ruscoe

Then explain Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Just kidding, sort of.

For folks who are of shorter stature, the seats could always have a fold down footrest. I'm still wondering if the windows will feel 'low' for the customers seated next to them.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 57):

One view (front) shows two armrests for the outside seat. Since it is perfectly legal to mssk trade secrets in parent sketches.. I believe details in the front view were left in by accident.

A sub 2" gap won't fit an arm...
Heck, one patent sketch we almost submitted was a part that could never be assembled due to what we obscured.



Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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Ty134A
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:56 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 63):
The side walls of the A380 main deck are thick for a reason. They support the upper deck.

oh ok... but is it really all due to the support, the 747 manages to suppoert an upper deck with way less structure, and yes i am aware that it is a way less upper deck, but still.

an an-124 has to support the wings, engines and right below that the gear... not that much of structure either....

but still i believe you.... not that i am doubting... maybe also because of the oval fuselage and the pressure it has to support....

oh well, i very much dislike the 388 because of it's windows....
TU3/5,T20,IL8/6/W/9,I14,YK4/2,AN2/4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80/2/7,
AB4/6,318-321,313,332/3,342/3/5/6,712,703,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,741/L/2/3/4,752/3,763,
77E/W,J31,F50,F70,100,ATP,142/3,AR8/1,SF3,S20,D38,MIH,EM4,E75/90/95,AT7,DHT/3/4,CRJ/7/9
 
col
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:10 am

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 67):
oh well, i very much dislike the 388 because of it's windows....

Yea me too, nice hard wood square Georgian style, with matching wooden blinds would be much better 
 
Kashmon
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 15):

perhaps
but I am more sure that the feminazis of the west will have a problem with men sitting higher...
 
astuteman
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:41 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 14):
While the top of the window seat cushion may now match the other seats, window seat foot space will still be more restricted at floor level due to the curving sidewalls.

It may not be any worse than the current configuration, as the move will bring the seat into a flatter area of sidewall.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 21):
Let's see how many airlines agree with you.

That will be the test. I think there are better solutions. I think EK do too

Rgds
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:32 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 70):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 14):While the top of the window seat cushion may now match the other seats, window seat foot space will still be more restricted at floor level due to the curving sidewalls.
It may not be any worse than the current configuration, as the move will bring the seat into a flatter area of sidewall.

After looking at the drawing more closely, it appears that only the seat back matches the other seats at 18". Due to sidewall slant, the window seat cushions are less than 18" (17.4"?).

With the 1.86" raised floor, foot space appears to be around 15".

Quoting astuteman (Reply 70):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 21):Let's see how many airlines agree with you.

That will be the test.

Totally agree.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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lightsaber
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 70):

Sadly, I must agree. Only orders will make this a viable concept. With a certain hubbing airline likely to have disproportionate orders and thus decision power.

Lightsaber
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XT6Wagon
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 70):
That will be the test. I think there are better solutions. I think EK do too

Makes no sense for EK on many if not most of the routes. Payload or cargo limited, so adding wieght for more passengers to put bags into cargo...

Now, maybe if the NEO coughs up a bunch of payload/range...

They would still rather have a stretch though.
 
AnsettB727
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting ChazPilot (Reply 10):
I hope you're right, but I feel like there was a time not too long ago where the same was said about 10-abreast in the 77W.

You are completely right. I remember a couple of years back I went AKL - SFO on a NZ 777 with 9 abreast, and then returned AKL - MEL in the, at the time, brand spanking new 777 with 10 abreast. The issue is the aisle - you simple can't walk down it without taking people with you.

People always talk about sitting comfort, but the chance to move around is just as important.

I love the QF A380 and will always pay more to fly it because it's like being in a train in the sky. But the minute you pinch that aisle, the experience becomes hard to swallow.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:47 pm

These people complaining about "twisted legs" need to look closer at the patent document and human anatomy.

Humans generally, if they have any training in etiquette and how not to be crass, have a sitting foot position the width of which is much narrower than the width of say the distance between their knees or the width of their hips.

This is because our knees are naturally inclined to cant inwards and not outwards (e.g. sitting in the lotus position, more commonly known as "Indian-style").

The width of the A380 floor appears, from the document, to provide adequate room for the feet persons in 3-5-3 config window seats.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
bhill
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:16 am

Hmmmmm....cleavage.....
Carpe Pices
 
2175301
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 75):
This is because our knees are naturally inclined to cant inwards and not outwards (e.g. sitting in the lotus position, more commonly known as "Indian-style").

Sorry, the lotus sitting position has the knees much wider than the hips; and only works when sitting on the floor. 2nd, at least for many males the knees naturally cant outward and you have to compress the male scrotum to bring the knees together, which is not a natural thing to do.


Have a great day,
 
rheinwaldner
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:21 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 60):
But it can be very uncomfortable if you're shorter than average, especially if your feet don't fit solidly on the floor. Puts pressure on the lower legs and affects blood circulation. Not good for 12 or 14 hours.

The footrest would be higher as well, right? So the height above the floor does not really matter IMO...
Many things are difficult, all things are possible!
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 77):
Sorry, the lotus sitting position has the knees much wider than the hips; and only works when sitting on the floor. 2nd, at least for many males the knees naturally cant outward and you have to compress the male scrotum to bring the knees together, which is not a natural thing to do.


I said e.g, meaning exempli gratia, obviously when you're sitting in an aircraft you are in a seat and not on the floor. (Hopefully).

If in human anatomy our knees had a natural inclination to cant outwards we'd be unable to sit in lotus position (our legs would go towards the outside).
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 77):
you have to compress the male scrotum to bring the knees together, which is not a natural thing to do.

Holy sh.... I can't believe we are now discussing ... "the male scrotum".... even though I had an idea what it is (because I am male) I had to use the dictionary ...

Nasty Airbus! Because of your idea of 11-abreast we have to go in such details now....
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:54 am

Yeah, maybe if you are diagnosed with " wide (sitting) stance a la Larry Craig" you'd have a problem with the window seat in this config.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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fallap
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RE: A380 11-abreast Details Emerge

Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:07 pm

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 48):

god, our friends from the other side of the atlantic are having a bashing fest again   Any chance to start one, aye?

I like that idea, it is innovative, it makes use of the curved shape and I think some airlines will like it.

Easy to say when you are a 4' tall Asian :b And since when did the Atlantic Ocean include the shores of Hong Kong?

[Edited 2015-08-12 05:10:26]
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