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OSL777FLYER
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting saleya22r (Reply 25):
hotel

In the news here in Norway it has been reported that the hotel night staff noticed that the crew were drinking during the night between Friday/Saturday. As the flight was scheduled to leave very early in the morning for a charter flight, these hotel staff were probably the ones tasked with wake-up calls etc. and they definitely did the right thing in reporting this.

As has been discussed earlier, staff are then taken for blood tests to secure evidence.

Crew will most likely be fired and rightfully so.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:53 pm

This crew was above the legal limit.

Quoting Grummancat (Reply 38):

That should be recalled that the hotel staff saw an issue with this. They were probably seen served by someone who rightfully pointed out their state.

What I wonder is why the 3rd F/A was OK. Did that F/a call in sick or not drink?

Quoting FredrikHAD (Reply 42):

A post worth rereading to point out how false positives are avoided.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
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saleya22r
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting OSL777FLYER (Reply 50):
In the news here in Norway it has been reported that the hotel night staff noticed that the crew were drinking during the night between Friday/Saturday

Yes, totally irresponsible and immature behavior. Drinking trough the night..According to Dagbladet, the crew stayed at one of the Oslo Airport hotels.
 
b747400erf
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
The body can generate natural alcohol levels that can register 0.04 in USA format on the breathalyzer.

It must be a conspiracy that all 4 tested above the limit.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
Of course, some breathalyzers are cheap crap, bought by cheap police departments. Those low quality POS present a problem.

If they had cheap units none of that evidence would stand up in court.

None of your claims hold any merit in this topic but that seems to be a pattern.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 53):
It must be a conspiracy that all 4 tested above the limit.
Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 53):
If they had cheap units none of that evidence would stand up in court.

None of your claims hold any merit in this topic but that seems to be a pattern.

If you take the time to read my post, I am not talking about this particular crew or Norweigian police´s breathalyzers. I was responding to NWAROOSTER. Although Norway must share in my views as some other poster here mentioned, in Norway a breathalyzer is invalid in a court of law.

In many US jurisdicitions, it is the same case. So please point out what of my claims do not hold any merit? Or could you not let an opportunity to hurl a cheap insult pass by? Because that seems to be your pattern, with everybody you have a beef with on this site. Hint: It can be done, but you need to be brighter about it.
 
Someone83
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:46 pm

Not official but ut is being reported that the first officer scored 1,44 (per thousand) on the breathalyzer test and then 1,2 on the blood sample. So way more than "a little over the limit" suggesting they had a rather hard night out

The rest of the crew had supposedly a little lower alcohol content
 
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saleya22r
Posts: 180
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 55):
Not official but ut is being reported that the first officer scored 1,44 (per thousand) on the breathalyzer test and then 1,2 on the blood sample

Yes, and the captain had 0.4, he will remain in custody for the next two weeks. Cabin crew "scored" 0.4 and 0.8 according to VG Direkte.
 
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b727fa
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:21 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 10):
Correct me if im wrong, but it is number of passengers and not seats that sets the requirement for number of CA:s. The passengers also need to be seated in a certain way when it comes to emergency exits etc. 50 pax per CA... And depending on how you seat those passengers and how you put the CA:s with regards to exits you may well operate a 150 seater with just 2 CA:s... You then need to block certain seats. Am I wrong?

As others have said, it's based on number of seats in the plane AND what the airline has "proved" to the regulatory agency. That is to say, a 210 seat 757 would be certified by an airline with 5 cabin crew. The airline can't take out 11 seats and "magically" be qualified for only 4 cabin crew. At least in the US anytime there is a "material change in duties and/or emergency procedures (ie, evacuation, or cabin hazard)" the airline must re-certify the aircraft (usually a basic mini-evac). Now, it is possible to certify an aircraft in two configurations say, 199 (4 cabin crew) and 210 (5 cabin crew) and then it'd be "legal" to "just take out 11 seats" from time to time.

Quoting diverted (Reply 27):
Don't know about other countries, but in Canada, some airlines (don't know 100% that they all can) can use a ground employee to sub in if the aircraft is out of base. As soon as it returns to a crew base they must be replaced, but they can use a gate agent or rampie if the situation warrants.

I can't imagine how this is even legal. Clearly an odd rule that must have some basis in function though I can't see it! At that point, just go with the the two and leave the unqualified person out of it. That could be a bigger headache!
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
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FredrikHAD
Posts: 453
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 55):
first officer scored 1,44


That's one intoxicated FO!

Quoting saleya22r (Reply 56):
Cabin crew "scored" 0.4 and 0.8


Initially i thought, or hoped, that they were all just slightly over the limit and the third FA more or less passed with just as small a margin that the rest failed, but that was apparently not the case. Too often you see people drinking too much just to fit in. I really applaude the FA that was not drunk for making the right descicion in that respect.

How would you act if you knew a fellow crew member was well over the limit? We're talking about 1.44 here with a legal limit of 0.2! Report or be loyal? Perhaps a rookie FA noticing a senior Captain being drunk... Can be a tough one.

/Fredrik
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2428
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
I'd vote for mandatory breathalyzer tests for flight crews any day!

Of course YOU would - it wouldn't impact YOU.

Yea, great idea - let's subject the most intensely scrutinized group in the world to yet another test. One that is notoriously inaccurate. Should we have blood tests done too? You would have flights cancelled in staggering amounts every day over the number of false positives. Not to mention the trauma inflicted to the falsely accused crew members being tested for absolutely no just cause.

Brilliant.

We already have random, pre-employment, post accident and probable cause testing. I have no problem with any of those and in fact, I was random tested just last night.

What you so hardily endorse is ridiculous.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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FredrikHAD
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RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 59):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
I'd vote for mandatory breathalyzer tests for flight crews any day!

Of course YOU would - it wouldn't impact YOU.

Strange, quotation got messed up, 'cause I wrote that, not AR385... I'm quite certain that with a proper ruleset surrounding mandatory tests (like allowance for slight positive indications if you're using perscribed medication and so on), and proper breathalyzers, I think it wouldn't be too much of a hazzle, but as you indicated, I'm not a pilot.

Swedish police uses breathalyzers from Dräger with an accuracy of +/- 0.05 ‰. If the limit is set for 0.25 ‰, you'd never get a false positive and still catch all the cases where one is over 0.3 ‰. In Sweden, a breathalyzer test with the handheld intrument is only indicative and is always followed by either a blood sample or another breathalyzer test in a medical grade equipment.

I'm certainly not looking to cause problems for flight crews, but I can imagaine that the ones caught are only a fraction of all cases with drunk crew members. I only hope the fraction caught is rather large compared to those not caught...
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:58 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 59):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
I'd vote for mandatory breathalyzer tests for flight crews any day!

Hello,

As it´s been pointed out by FredrikHAD, I am not the one who wrote that. I see FrdrikHAD´s point, but I would not agree with that policy.

Have a nice day.
 
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barney captain
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:52 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 61):
As it´s been pointed out by FredrikHAD, I am not the one who wrote that. I see FrdrikHAD´s point, but I would not agree with that policy.

Sorry for the confusion but yes, the previous post was supposed to quote Fredrik. I'm not sure what happened.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5940
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:12 pm

The charges are extended:

Police believe Air Baltic crew drank alcohol less than eight hours prior to departure

The captain is also charged with having known that the other crew members were drunk, without doing something about it.

The crew risks fines and up to 2 years in prison. The captain can expect more.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/l...atte-timer-foer-avgang/a/23504835/

[Edited 2015-08-14 10:14:31]
 
ajhYXE
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 10:25 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting barney captain (Reply 62):
I'm not sure what happened.

If you highlight text from one post and click the "quote selected text" button above a different post the wrong user gets quoted.
GO RIDERS!
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3177
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:01 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 54):

If you take the time to read my post, I am not talking about this particular crew or Norweigian police´s breathalyzers. I was responding to NWAROOSTER. Although Norway must share in my views as some other poster here mentioned, in Norway a breathalyzer is invalid in a court of law.

In many US jurisdicitions, it is the same case. So please point out what of my claims do not hold any merit? Or could you not let an opportunity to hurl a cheap insult pass by? Because that seems to be your pattern, with everybody you have a beef with on this site. Hint: It can be done, but you need to be brighter about it.

You are wrong and refused to back up the claims with citations. Breathalyzers are not what you claim they are, if they were so out of calibration or a bad quality to being with then every court case would throw out the evidence and people would walk free. You have to insult me rather than admit you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 65):
Breathalyzers are not what you claim they are

Please take a look at the "occupation" section of my profile.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 65):
if they were so out of calibration or a bad quality to being with then every court case would throw out the evidence and people would walk free.

No. They simply (in many jurisdictions in the US) are not admitted as evidence. A blood test is required. In Norway they are not admitted ANYWHERE as evidence. Why do you think that is? I wonder...

So the reason why every court case DOES NOT throw out the evidence they provide is because they are not admitted as such. And in the jurisdictions in the US where they are admitted, any mediocre lawyer will, in many case, find a way to render the evidence they provide as non admissible. Again, why do you think that is?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 65):
You have to insult me rather than admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

1) It was never my intention to insult you. If you felt insulted, please accept my apologies. At the same time, you have the SD button available 24/7. Should you had used it, I would have been informed that my post had been deemed "offensive" (you feel insulted right?) and I would have posted a general apology in the thread (as I would have no way of knowing WHO was insulted) But seriously, again, please accept my apologies.

2) As far as: "You have no idea what you are talking about" please, again, take a look at the "occupation" section of my profile. You will see then why I did not posted

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 65):
refused to back up the claims with citations

Citations.

Do you think I have NO formal training in the use of breathalyzers? I have to USE THEM. Do you know how many brands are out there? Do you know how many variations in quality there are? Do you even know the chain of metabolic processes that take place in the human body once alcohol is ingested? Do you know that breathalyzers can be altered by many interested parties in one direction or another? Do you know why any dumb lawyer (in many countries) will tell you to DELAY a blood test as much as possible and not worry about the breathalyzer?...I thought so.

And please don´t head to Wiki now.

Anyway. In other threads you have shown no qualms in throwing the "You have no idea what you are talking about" moniker to everybody who disagrees with you. Or simply points out that you are not correct. So, as far as citations go, you may look for them yourself. And before you say "It is up to the poster..." and such, keep in mind that since the "You have now idea what you are talking about" phrase is used by you in many threads with a variation of themes, you are probably an expert in many diverse fields. So I am sure you will find much better "citations" than the ones I could come up with. Good luck  
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3177
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 66):

Please take a look at the "occupation" section of my profile.

I do not care what you claim to be, I asked for proof and as usual you only have rhetoric. This is over.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:32 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 67):
I asked for proof and as usual you only have rhetoric. This is over.

  I am not saying I cannot prove it. I said "You may look for them yourself. " The citations/proof you wish. Why is it that you don´t wish to do that, and instead say "This is over"?

It´s funny how suddeny I got a Kindergarten deja-vu...sensation.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5240
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:28 am

The case is starting in the court here in Norway today, and is likely to be rather short and quick as all the crew arrested has attmitted their crime
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5940
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:03 pm

The court sentenced the

* First officer to 6 months' unconditional imprisonment

* Stewardess 1 : 60 days in prison

* Stewardess 2: 45 days in prison

* The captain will not get his sentence today, but in a few days as he did not agree to all that the court ruled.

None of thee persons are expected to keep their jobs after this.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/l...seks-maaneders-fengsel/a/23506444/

http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/08/17/n...rmannen/promille/alkohol/40652693/



[Edited 2015-08-17 06:27:43]
 
FlyingAY
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:26 pm

RE: Entire Flight Crew Arrested, Were "drunk".

Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:34 pm

What was shocking was that the first officer had 1.35 promille alcohol in his blood. The captain had 0.54 promille. Not sure if the numbers were posted in this thread already, but I did not notice them...

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