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Brewfangrb
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:13 am

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:28 am

Quoting vf6cruiser (Reply 14):
No excuse for this incident.........you can get hit by hail up to 20 miles from a T-storm but meterology should have been on this and routed around it, or the crew should have seen it and deviated. From the damage I would say a level 5 storm


A "level 5 storm", eh? What's that? This wasn't a hurricane or a tornado. (And even those aren't categorized as "levels").

[Edited 2015-08-10 01:37:17]
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2771
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RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:14 pm

For those who were quick to blame the pilots: http://twitter.com/AeroSavvy/status/630580294374952960/photo/1
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
nkops
Posts: 2237
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:40 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 51):

That filled in fast.... thanks for posting that
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
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ssteve
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RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 52):
That filled in fast.... thanks for posting that

At least they weren't in a Zeppelin.
 
flightsimer
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RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
While individual cells may be visible, hail is not very reflective, is notoriously difficult to detect with radar, and can be found miles downwind from weather systems. It can be a VERY surprising encounter as you may be clear of the weather by miles and suddenly encounter hail.

Two years ago I was at the local airport and we had a massive storm build up just west of us and pass through. I was inside a C-47 inside of a hangar with ear buds in listening to music while cleaning while the hangar door was partly open. It went from being relatively bright outside to whiteout with just hail in an instant. We had hail falling a good 5 minutes before the first drop of rain even fell. The Hail was big too, biggest I found was golf all sized. (We had so much hail dumped, that I could no longer hear the music in the hangar at full volume, I had $5k worth of damage to my car, our fabric controls on our C-123 had a few holes in it, and we still had hail on the ground the next day. it was just spectacular).

Quoting adam42185 (Reply 23):
Not sure how flightaware works in terms of radar - does it those the most recent image when the plane lands, or as it passes a given point? I honestly don't know how they come up with the imagery once the flight is over, but could it have been that the cell just to the north of the flight path is what they flew through? Otherwise it could have been hail thrown from the storm cell. Again, didn't take much time to look at the scaling, but they do look pretty close to it.

From my own flights, I have noticed the radar keeps updating for some amount of time after you pass a given area as I have seen a couple of my flights this summer show me flying my Cessna 310 right through red. Now it is possible, that it could have been "red" below me and that is return they are showing, but I know I have never flown through any of the cells flightaware has showed me flying through.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 35):
Storms can't really develop "instantaneously". They can develop quickly, but it's not instant or without notice. Pilots have warning that conditions are favorable for a storm, and in this case the pilots appear to have known that they were trying to punch a hole through a group of cells.

I remember one storm while I was working at the flight school that I had to call back the entire fleet that was out. I watched a cell develope from nothing into a 40,000ft cell in a matter of 15 minutes.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 51):
For those who were quick to blame the pilots: http://twitter.com/AeroSavvy/status/...oto/1

Radar convicts them and their ground controllers as much as it exonerates them. That gap was clearly closing up for over an hour before they hit it. It finished closing very quickly, but you could see that coming. They could have elected to take the safe route and go the north with only a small flight path deviance. But instead they tried to beat the storm and thread a needle, and it put lives at risk.

I wonder how much aircraft range had to do with this. Westbound BOS-SLC is on the edge of the range of an older A320 like this one. The options might have been try to thread the needle or divert for fuel.
 
bcoz
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 55):
Radar convicts them and their ground controllers as much as it exonerates them. That gap was clearly closing up for over an hour before they hit it. It finished closing very quickly, but you could see that coming. They could have elected to take the safe route and go the north with only a small flight path deviance. But instead they tried to beat the storm and thread a needle, and it put lives at risk.

I wonder how much aircraft range had to do with this. Westbound BOS-SLC is on the edge of the range of an older A320 like this one. The options might have been try to thread the needle or divert for fuel.

That doesn't look like it would be only a small deviation to the north, but I could be wrong....
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:21 pm

Aircraft is being repaired. My father is a freight broker. Got a call from Airbus, sending the parts by truck from Virginia today. Should be there sometime tomorrow. He didn't say what they were carrying, but that they said they needed it there tomorrow to fix this specific plane.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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litz
Posts: 2368
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 57):
Aircraft is being repaired. My father is a freight broker. Got a call from Airbus, sending the parts by truck from Virginia today. Should be there sometime tomorrow. He didn't say what they were carrying, but that they said they needed it there tomorrow to fix this specific plane.
Pat

Well, we can be certain it's at least 1 nose cone, and two windshields ...
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
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RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 58):
Well, we can be certain it's at least 1 nose cone, and two windshields ...

That's for sure. But I have to imagine it was more than that. Windshield could probably be carried cargo. He said it was 5 pieces total. Should have asked specifically what.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2364
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:43 pm

That's not any hole I would have attempted. Not when an updwind deviation to the south was possible. I had this nearly exact scenario yesterday - a very large cell, a small gap and then another smaller cell. Further to the right was lots of blue sky. Gaps can and do fill in quickly, so we chose "lots of blue".

I wasn't there and I don't mean to throw these guys under the Airbus, but when there is that much open sky available, it doesn't make sense to try and shoot the gap.

This wasn't one of those lines that stretched from Mexico City to New York City forcing you to make a tough decision. There were better options available here imho.


http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...9/history/20150807/2130Z/KBOS/KSLC
Southeast Of Disorder
 
KIRFlyer
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:46 pm

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:44 pm

Reading this story, my thoughts immediately jumped to the Southern Airways flight that crashed outside Atlanta back in 1977. Kudos to the pilots for landing the aircraft safely. It could have been much worse!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Airways_Flight_242
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting bcoz (Reply 56):
That doesn't look like it would be only a small deviation to the north, but I could be wrong....

Changing course a half hour before they hit it wouldn't have been too far off line. By the end they were actually deviating to the south to try to split the gap.
 
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EPA001
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: DL1889 BOS-SLC 8/7 Diverts To DEN-Hail Damage

Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 51):
For those who were quick to blame the pilots: http://twitter.com/AeroSavvy/status/630580294374952960/photo/1

Like PGNCS already said we need more facts to judge te pilots actions. And this shows they can not be blamed for anything regarding the incidents triggered by the weather on this flight. Thanks for posting this indeed.

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