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AV8AJET
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DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:21 pm

Booked a flight in Oct ATL-MCO and happy to see our flight down to MCO is on a B767-400ER. Haven't seen this in a while, is this a one off or can we expect more?
 
avi8
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:30 pm

Due to the fact that DL is launching flights to Brazil I would assume that the plane needs to be repositioned to one of the hubs.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 1):

Due to the fact that DL is launching flights to Brazil I would assume that the plane needs to be repositioned to one of the hubs.

I don't think any of the Brazil flights are 767-400s. I think the GRU flight is a -300 IIRC.
 
michman
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:36 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 1):
Due to the fact that DL is launching flights to Brazil I would assume that the plane needs to be repositioned to one of the hubs.

MCO-GRU does not launch until December. Looks like OP got confused by flight 109 which is continuation flight from MAD. MAD-ATL is a 764 while the ATL-MCO leg is just a 739.
 
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usxguy
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:44 am

I'm seeing some occasional 76W action on MCO/ATL in September as well...
 
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compensateme
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:55 am

DL's been operating regularly scheduled 763 into MCO from both DTW & MSP the past few years. Service resumes in late October for DTW & mid-November via MSP and will last through the winter.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 4):
I'm seeing some occasional 76W action on MCO/ATL in September as well...

Indeed, it seems there are a few Fridays in September and October where the 767-300 operates a morning rotation ATL-MCO-ATL.

No 764 though.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 2):
I don't think any of the Brazil flights are 767-400s. I think the GRU flight is a -300 IIRC.

The MCO-Brazil flights are indeed on the 763. No 764s. Those are usually seen on JFK-Brazil.
 
lpdal
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:05 am

MCO, FLL, and TPA receive occasional widebodies on the US3 when seasonal demand permits.

MIA sees domestic widebodies all year, both in scheduled and seasonal service.

-LPDAL
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:17 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 7):
MIA sees domestic widebodies all year, both in scheduled and seasonal service.

-LPDAL

This in incorrect. If you look at each day next week there are no widebodies on the schedule. There might be seasonal adjustments for holidays and spring break, but not all year ops.
 
xdlx
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:35 pm

Remember ATLMCO is one of the top domestic city pairs in the DL universe.
 
usairways85
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:57 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 9):
Remember ATLMCO is one of the top domestic city pairs in the DL universe.

But to that point, widebodies used to be a mainstay on the route. It was not uncommon to see multiple 764, 772, MD11, 763 each day. Now it seems to be based on seasonal demand. There are no widebodies on 8/17, but I counted 2 763's in early November. The 753 seems to be the aircraft that replaced many of the widebodies.
 
xdlx
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 10):

If you ever layover in ATL go to the Rennaisance in the North side, has a great view of the entire airport.
Stayed there not long ago, and counted maybe 6 widebodies from 1700-2100. Back in the early 2000! ATL traffic was 50% widebodies what has happened?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
If you ever layover in ATL go to the Rennaisance in the North side, has a great view of the entire airport.
Stayed there not long ago, and counted maybe 6 widebodies from 1700-2100. Back in the early 2000! ATL traffic was 50% widebodies what has happened?

764s were not flying across the Atlantic, had more domestic 763s, and the 777 did more domestic laps back then as well. Wasn't uncommon to see roations to LAX, DEN, and MCO.

A lot has changed since then.
 
txkf2010
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:28 pm

I remember the days when DL used to run the L-1011 on this route. Those where the days!
 
usairways85
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
Back in the early 2000! ATL traffic was 50% widebodies what has happened?

Over the past 15 years the US airlines have shifted widebodies from domestic use to international use. Airlines jam more seats into narrow bodies or in the case of DL, they have large narrow bodies in the 753 that can handle a heavy route. UA pulled widebodies from many of their hub-hub routes until recently bringing some back. However, even then it has been in part due to aircraft utilization of the 788/763.

Airlines now order widebodies for the sole purpose of flying internationally and subsequently don't want to offer domestic F paxs the opportunity to wear the int'l J product on routes like ATL-MCO, DFW, ORD unless it simply fits into the ultilization of the aircraft.
 
lpdal
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 8):

This in incorrect. If you look at each day next week there are no widebodies on the schedule. There might be seasonal adjustments for holidays and spring break, but not all year ops.

I said the US3, not DL exclusively.

-LPDAL
 
AV8AJET
Topic Author
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting michman (Reply 3):
MCO-GRU does not launch until December. Looks like OP got confused by flight 109 which is continuation flight from MAD. MAD-ATL is a 764 while the ATL-MCO leg is just a 739.

Nope my flight on Oct 9th DL 2586 is indeed a 764.

[Edited 2015-08-09 09:45:55]
 
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dabpit
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:58 pm

DL has a nice mix of 767 and A330 that serve MCO throughout the year. AA has 767 regularly as well and former US has the A330 come in from time to time.
 
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compensateme
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:30 pm

During the era of DL's MCO hub, the route peaked at 8-9 daily flights; less than 10 years later when DL went bankrupt, it had surged to up to 14x daily. Throughout this time period, most flights were operated with widebody equipment (762, 763, 764, L1011-100/500, MD-11, 777). Given the then fare environment, I would bet the route was a big money loser for DL and the widebodies existed because 1) DL had so many of them and MCO was one of the few places that could consistently fill them and 2) to defend what had been "their" market from LCC. Remember that most legacies continued to hoard unused ticket counter & gate space to prevent LCC from expanding (with DL & US being the largest culprits). Eventually MCO turned to creative solutions (eg ticket counters in baggage claim) before expanding the airport.

Today, almost all major & medium-sized markets have LCC service to MCO & SFB and the legacies have adapted to it. DL's recent surge in MCO capacity is largely a derivative in the low fuel environment combined with WN's withdrawal from oodles of FL markets.

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):
DL has a nice mix of 767 and A330 that serve MCO throughout the year. AA has 767 regularly as well and former US has the A330 come in from time to time.

Huh? DL only operates the 763 on regularly scheduled service from DTW & MSP - and just on a seasonal basis (late October - April, with some interruptions). Because the 753 fleet is well utilized with no slack, every single 753 market has experienced a 767/330 substitution at some point, and this is probably what we're seeing here. But don't confuse one-off service for regularly scheduled.
 
afcjets
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 10):
But to that point, widebodies used to be a mainstay on the route. It was not uncommon to see multiple 764, 772, MD11, 763 each day
Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 13):
I remember the days when DL used to run the L-1011 on this route. Those where the days!
Quoting Compensateme (Reply 18):
During the era of DL's MCO hub, the route peaked at 8-9 daily flights; less than 10 years later when DL went bankrupt, it had surged to up to 14x daily. Throughout this time period, most flights were operated with widebody equipment

IIRC there were times when it was all L1011 aircrafr, and perhaps 1 767 and 1 MD88 or 727.

It wasn't just ATL-MCO. Most DL flights from ATL to FLL, PBI, JAX, and to a somewhat lesser extent TPA and MIA were mostly widebodies.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):
AA has 767 regularly as well

Daily 763 from MIA. Early morning departure from MIA which would indicate the flight caters to connecting traffic from South America that arrives into MIA around 5-6am.
A
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):
DL has a nice mix of 767 and A330 that serve MCO throughout the year. AA has 767 regularly as well and former US has the A330 come in from time to time.

I can't remember the A330 being scheduled into MCO. Certainly charters and maybe a sub but regularly scheduled? I don't think so. Those birds are international workhorses.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 16):
Nope my flight on Oct 9th DL 2586 is indeed a 764.

Bizarre! I had to look twice to confirm. It's not scheduled on any other days either. Once we get closer I might be able to find out why it's being scheduled that way.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:02 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
I said the US3, not DL exclusively.

-LPDAL

I still believe this is incorrect. I don't believe at any point UA schedules widebodies into MIA (or TPA), be it regularly scheduled or seasonal. Perhaps MCO and FLL, but even that is pretty rare from UA.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:23 pm

Taking a look at November, there are four daily 763 flights from MCO. 1x MCO-MSP, 2x MCO-DTW, 1x MCO-ATL.

FLL also gets two daily 763s from ATL.


Off topic side note: it looks like DL is putting a 763 on one daily MSP-DTW flight in November, which is the first time in quite a while that there will be a regularly scheduled widebody on that route.
 
laca773
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 7):

MCO, FLL, and TPA receive occasional widebodies on the US3 when seasonal demand permits.

MIA sees domestic widebodies all year, both in scheduled and seasonal service.
Quoting afcjets (Reply 19):
It wasn't just ATL-MCO. Most DL flights from ATL to FLL, PBI, JAX, and to a somewhat lesser extent TPA and MIA were mostly widebodies.

In the past DL used many wide bodies on their ATL-Florida turns where the airport or market could support it. Instead of letting the a/c sit idle, back in the day, DL would send them to Florida and do quick turns.
Obviously this doesn't happen as much these days, but it still does occur, when you'll see a sub at the last minute, either for a mechanical, over sell, etc.. MCO/TPA/JAX/FLL/PBI have all seen this many times.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1982
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:02 pm

Delta does regularly schedule 767s, both domestic and international, to MCO and other major Florida airports during the fast season. Occasionally, they'll send an A330 as well.

But depends on what context "regular" lies within. If that is in the sense of year-wide, Delta doesn't do that, AA does.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2015-08-10 11:39:28]
 
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dabpit
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 21):
can't remember the A330 being scheduled into MCO. Certainly charters and maybe a sub but regularly scheduled? I don't think so. Those birds are international workhorses.

The A330 was at MCO on a regular basis in the spring. Probably for the Spring Breakers and the various competitions held in Central Florida held around that time of year.

It is not a regular year round visitor.
 
afcjets
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 24):
In the past DL used many wide bodies on their ATL-Florida turns where the airport or market could support it. Instead of letting the a/c sit idle, back in the day, DL would send them to Florida and do quick turns.

The L1011 and non ER 767s were not sent to FL merely to not sit ide. They were ordered for these type missions as well as transcon and other high density domestic markets. IIRC Delta also flew the 767 to RSW on occasion too back in the 80s and 90s.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
If you ever layover in ATL go to the Rennaisance in the North side, has a great view of the entire airport.
Stayed there not long ago, and counted maybe 6 widebodies from 1700-2100. Back in the early 2000! ATL traffic was 50% widebodies what has happened?

During the summer schedule, you can expect to see ~20 DL widebody departures during that timeframe and almost half as many arrivals. However, your point that there are far fewer DL widebody flights from ATL these days is still valid - I remember flying through ATL in late 2007 and there were 767s galore.

Most of the decreases are because of the following:
-some domestic 763s were parked (I believe they had 21 originally and parked 7 during the economic downturn)
-764s were converted from domestic to international configuration and deployed on longer routes
-DL and NW merged and quite a few DL widebodies were moved to other hubs while relatively fewer NW widebodies moved to ATL (and in general the DL long haul network became less ATL-centric)
-DL dropped quite a few long haul routes from ATL that were not good performers (anyone remember ATL-VIE, ATL-KWI, ATL-PVG, ATL-PRG, etc.?)

To sum it up, domestic widebody aircraft have become fewer while DL has also diversified its international network beyond ATL and focussed on building up JFK, SEA, LAX, etc.
 
EddieDude
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RE: DL Widebodies Back To MCO In Oct '15?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 27):
The L1011 and non ER 767s were not sent to FL merely to not sit ide. They were ordered for these type missions as well as transcon and other high density domestic markets.

I remember flying BOS-MCO on a L1011 in December of 1995.

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