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Deltabravo1123
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British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:34 am

BA currently flies the 767-300ER from Heathrow to BWI. Years ago it was a 777-200. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure BWI is the last remaining transatlantic destination that BA uses the 767-300 on. Any word on what aircraft will serve the route after they retire the 767s? Any hunches as to whether it will be a 777 or 787? Personally, I thought they would have upgraded it to the 787-8 already... Kinda surprised they haven't done that yet.

[Edited 2015-08-09 17:36:13]
 
HNL
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:56 am

Quoting deltabravo1123 (Thread starter):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure BWI is the last remaining transatlantic destination that BA uses the 767-300 on

LHR-YYC
LHR-NAS-GCM
LHR-EWR
LHR-BWI
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
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thekorean
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting HNL (Reply 1):

Isn't LHR-YYC 787-8 now?
 
HNL
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:37 am

10 Aug to 4 Dec 2015 flights all show as operated by a 767.
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Deltabravo1123
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting HNL (Reply 1):
LHR-YYC
LHR-NAS-GCM
LHR-EWR
LHR-BWI

I didn't realize LHR-NAS was a 767. And I know that BA was operating the 788 on LHR-YYC and LHR-EWR. I didn't know they had switched back to the 767.
 
Viscount724
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:12 am

Quoting deltabravo1123 (Reply 4):
And I know that BA was operating the 788 on LHR-YYC and LHR-EWR. I didn't know they had switched back to the 767.

BA started 788 service to Calgary in September 2014.
http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/09/16...e-to-calgary-international-airport

They reverted to 763 service in February 2015.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...g-787-calgary-service-in-feb-2015/
 
usairways85
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:55 am

I happened to see the 763 show up again on some LHR-PHL flights in the fall.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:20 am

Except for special circumstances (plane maintenance etc...), BWI and NAS-GCM will be the only long-haul 767 routes left come the end of the year. Both are still showing 767s into the summer 2016 schedule as of now. With the long-haul 767 to all be retired by the end of 2016, this will obviously change at some point in 2016. Whether they go 788 or 772 will depend on where BA sees the capacity best deployed. Its unlikely to be 789 as BWI and NAS-GCM don't warrant a first class cabin.
A
 
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thekorean
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:53 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):

Ah. Anyone know why?
 
divemaster08
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 7):

Except for special circumstances (plane maintenance etc...), BWI and NAS-GCM will be the only long-haul 767 routes left come the end of the year. Both are still showing 767s into the summer 2016 schedule as of now. With the long-haul 767 to all be retired by the end of 2016, this will obviously change at some point in 2016. Whether they go 788 or 772 will depend on where BA sees the capacity best deployed. Its unlikely to be 789 as BWI and NAS-GCM don't warrant a first class cabin.

The BA agent here said to me we are going to get a 772 in here from next year on the NAS-GCM rotues. Still from LHR thankfully! guessing the 3 class version.

Hope this changes actually as I think the 777 is too large on the route, but I doubt we will be lucky enough to get the new baby 788 here. Most likely then a loss of frequency

[Edited 2015-08-09 22:27:14]
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civetfive
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:54 am

This is one of those routes that we always like discuss as a good candidate to replace with AA flying, as a 763 or 757 is probably a good aircraft to replace it with if it doesn't warrant a 788.
 
steve6666
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:39 am

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 9):
The BA agent here said to me we are going to get a 772 in here from next year on the NAS-GCM rotues. Still from LHR thankfully! guessing the 3 class version.

Hope this changes actually as I think the 777 is too large on the route, but I doubt we will be lucky enough to get the new baby 788 here. Most likely then a loss of frequency

Well a 788 is also quite a leap in capacity over a 767. But I agree with you, if it goes to a 772 then the frequency will have to go down at best to three a week. I think from memory when it was a 772 back around the turn of the century it was as low as two a week.

Quoting civetfive (Reply 10):
This is one of those routes that we always like discuss as a good candidate to replace with AA flying, as a 763 or 757 is probably a good aircraft to replace it with if it doesn't warrant a 788.

Suggesting a connection in MIA/DFW? I can only see that as doing bad things to yield. Or AA doing a W route from LHR using a 763? I think BA would prefer the reduction in frequency, using a 772/788/789 and use the slots gained for another route. And I would have thought AA would too.
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us330
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:30 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 11):
Suggesting a connection in MIA/DFW? I can only see that as doing bad things to yield. Or AA doing a W route from LHR using a 763? I think BA would prefer the reduction in frequency, using a 772/788/789 and use the slots gained for another route

Remember, AA and BA are one airline across the Atlantic. I think it's a prime candidate for an AA 757 route, alongside BDL-LHR.
 
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 11):
Well a 788 is also quite a leap in capacity over a 767.

Big deal. It is a huge decrease in costs. Remember, Boeing built the 788 to have a 20% cost advantage over the 763, and that was in the old 2-4-2 configuration.

Quoting us330 (Reply 12):
Remember, AA and BA are one airline across the Atlantic. I think it's a prime candidate for an AA 757 route, alongside BDL-LHR.

AA doesn't have that much excess 757 capacity to go around, unless they plan on converting some of the not currently TATL birds.
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fiddlerkrt
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:05 pm

This is a good question. I'm hoping it might go to a 788 as it has roughly the same capacity/configuration as the 763 albeit with a fairly larger J cabin. It would be incredibly sad to see AA fly the route instead since BA has been serving the route for a very long time. On a personal note, my family and I immigrated to the US on the BA/US LGW-BWI flight back in 1995!
 
richierich
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:17 pm

When are the BA B763s going to be retired? BWI-LHR seems like a good candidate to be one of the last routes for the type but I would expect this will either become a B788 route or BA will drop it altogether. To be honest, neither would surprise me.

Quoting us330 (Reply 12):
Remember, AA and BA are one airline across the Atlantic. I think it's a prime candidate for an AA 757 route, alongside BDL-LHR

While I would love to see AA start BDL-LHR, I'm not holding my breath.
None shall pass!!!!
 
lawair
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:13 pm

Cargo is a significant component of the BWI flight, which has been helped by the use of a wide bodied aircraft. BA carries more cargo at BWI than any other passenger airline except Southwest, despite only having a single daily flight.

The state revenue guarantee probably has the effect of disincentivizing a switch to a more efficient aircraft, since BA is probably locked in to getting more return from the route than other 767 routes.
 
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qf789
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:15 pm

When IAG announced their results a couple weeks ago they hinted at they may change some of their 787-9 orders into 787-8's
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Deltabravo1123
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:06 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 12):
I think it's a prime candidate for an AA 757 route, alongside BDL-LHR.

On a side note, what is the possibility of Delta starting BDL-CDG/AMS service on a 752? Northwest did it before they merged with DL. I've always wanted DL to start up that route again. I believe a DL 752 service to AMS/CDG and AA 752 service to LHR could coexist quite well.

Quoting richierich (Reply 15):
I would expect this will either become a B788 route or BA will drop it altogether. To be honest, neither would surprise me.

I remember reading that the route is also subsidized. I'd be surprised if they ever dropped the route entirely.
 
Andy33
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 15):
When are the BA B763s going to be retired? BWI-LHR seems like a good candidate to be one of the last routes for the type but I would expect this will either become a B788 route or BA will drop it altogether. To be honest, neither would surprise me.

The 3-class long-haul configured 763s now number just seven. Three are due to go before the end of this year, the remaining four by August 2016. Obviously plans can change, but with 789 delivery dates firming up, there should be sufficient new planes in the fleet to trigger the reshuffle that releases these 763s. The suspension of EBB and ALA flights from October means one less to replace in the reshuffle anyway.
There will still be seven short-haul configured 763s which are due to remain until 2017/2018.
 
laca773
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:50 pm

The 788s are an excellent a/c to replace the long range 767s. Since BA carries quite a bit of cargo on the BWI route, it seems this would be a good fit. It's also much more fuel efficient over the 763ER and 772. It is an increase in capacity, but with the savings in fuel, and aircraft operations, it seems like a good fit.
the 788s have allowed BA to start service to cities it otherwise wouldn't be able too since other widebodies are too large, and expensive to operate on new international service. Perfect example is LHR-AUS. Look how well this route has done, and it's now going to be upgraded since the market has developed well.....
 
richierich
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 19):
The 3-class long-haul configured 763s now number just seven. Three are due to go before the end of this year, the remaining four by August 2016. Obviously plans can change, but with 789 delivery dates firming up, there should be sufficient new planes in the fleet to trigger the reshuffle that releases these 763s. The suspension of EBB and ALA flights from October means one less to replace in the reshuffle anyway.
There will still be seven short-haul configured 763s which are due to remain until 2017/2018.

Gosh - I feel old. I still remember quite clearly my first flight on a BA B763, on a route which replaced a TriStar L-1011. The B763 seemed so fresh and modern at the time, now they are old and tired. Get them while you can!
None shall pass!!!!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:38 pm

Big question is - what happens when the $16.5mil State of Maryland subsidy ends in 2016 for the route?
Obviously the route is not commercially viable on its own and has earned subsidy for the last decade.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
G-CIVP
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting deltabravo1123 (Thread starter):
Any hunches as to whether it will be a 777 or 787?

Well it's going to be one or the other! I don't know why you are sweating on it. LAXintl's post above seems to indicate you will be lucky to get a service from London!
 
willd
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 15):
BWI-LHR seems like a good candidate to be one of the last routes for the type but I would expect this will either become a B788 route or BA will drop it altogether. To be honest, neither would surprise me.

It won't be dropped as it is subsidised by Maryland State Government. It is seen as vital by the people in Annapolis that the state has a direct link to Europe. The route also has excellent cargo loads and lets not forget BWI is actually more convenient to certain parts of DC than IAD is.

Quoting deltabravo1123 (Reply 18):
I remember reading that the route is also subsidized. I'd be surprised if they ever dropped the route entirely.

See response above.


Why is everyone on A.net so obsessed with BDL?! I just don't get it. Its not like BDL is a huge airport domestically. Not even in the top 50 US airports I believe.

Anyway back on topic. I reckon it will go 788. Nothing else really suitable in the BA fleet and I can't see a 757 from American working. Whilst BA/AA are "one airline" across the Atlantic there are real differences in terms of product. Just look at the business class on the PMUS 757s currently crossing the atlantic on BA codeshares!
 
czek6
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:28 pm

My guess is that the up to $5.5 million annual sibsidy will probably get renewed in 2016 for another three years, but it might be for the last time. By then, I expect that Norwegian will offer flights to LGW and who knows, by 2019 maybe even Southwest might have a plan for London.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Big deal. It is a huge decrease in costs.

Fuel costs perhaps, but I sincerely doubt that it's a "huge decrease" (or perhaps even a decrease at all) in total operating costs, considering that the 767s were paid off.

It's going to take a lot to make up for $X00,000 per month in acquisition fees, especially on flights that aren't all that long.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Deltabravo1123
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting willd (Reply 24):
Why is everyone on A.net so obsessed with BDL?! I just don't get it. Its not like BDL is a huge airport domestically. Not even in the top 50 US airports I believe

It's 53rd in the US by last year's statistics. Even if it isn't a huge airport domestically, there would still definitely be a sufficient amount of traffic to support a transatlantic flight. BDL sits right in between NYC and Boston so it's in a perfect catchment area. It's supported a TATL flight before so why not again? The corridor between Washingon DC up to Boston is the most densely populated region in the entire United States and it definitely shows in the traffic that accumulates around the larger cities. People in CT and western MA would much rather travel to BDL than JFK or BOS. Heck, nearby PVD isn't even in the top 60 but it has two airlines offering TATL service.
 
BA0197
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting willd (Reply 24):
Why is everyone on A.net so obsessed with BDL?!

I honestly have no idea. I also don't know why people think AA would operate it? I know the history between AA and BDL, but that is long gone and AA have, from the time of the JVA, always demonstrated that they will only operate out of their proper hubs to LHR (bar RDU- but that's for proper reasons and the results of contracts). AA willingly gave over all of BOS to BA for this reason.

When BDL can support a BA 788, then that is the only time it will be launched- not before that. Currently there are other cities that seem more likely to get BA service and these are MSY, PDX, DTW and SLC and in that order.
 
GSP psgr
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:33 pm

If there were ever a BA station that might be better suited towards being run with AA metal (at least in the medium term), it might be BWI; an AA 763 is just about the perfect size, and BA's 788s will remain at a premium for awhile. While I'm sure BWI-LHR could fill a 772 in the summer, in winter....not so much.
 
jetsetter629
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:48 pm

There are quite a few NGOs in Baltimore that do a fair bit of traffic on BWI - LHR and connect to various parts of the world
 
N1120A
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

Big question is - what happens when the $16.5mil State of Maryland subsidy ends in 2016 for the route?
Obviously the route is not commercially viable on its own and has earned subsidy for the last decade.

Well, the economics of the 787 change that equation.

Quoting qf789 (Reply 17):
When IAG announced their results a couple weeks ago they hinted at they may change some of their 787-9 orders into 787-8's

Since when would Boeing allow that? They have all but taken the 788 off the market.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
Fuel costs perhaps, but I sincerely doubt that it's a "huge decrease" (or perhaps even a decrease at all) in total operating costs, considering that the 767s were paid off.

They will get some money for the 767s, plus the 787s will stick around for a long time and be paid off at some point as well.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
It's going to take a lot to make up for $X00,000 per month in acquisition fees, especially on flights that aren't all that long.

That debt can be written off, while operating profit climbs.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
They will get some money for the 767s, plus the 787s will stick around for a long time and be paid off at some point as well.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
That debt can be written off, while operating profit climbs.

Eventually, yes... both neither are immediate-term. So while yes the 787 is a more efficient proposition in the long-run, it's not going to create an instant mint directly upon replacing a 767, relative to whatever the route's fortunes were before.


Speaking of, I'd head that BWI was the only directly subsidized (beyond launch period) longhaul route in the BA portfolio. Anyone know if that's 1) accurate and 2) still the case, if so?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
hkcanadaexpat
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:43 am

I don't think anyone doubts that the 788 is better suited than the 772 for BWI as a replacement for the 763. the issue is there are only 8x 788s in the fleet and if BWI gets it, that means another route looses it. that's the decision BA is faced with. It has more routes suited for the 788 than aircraft to fly to all those places. Which leads us to the rumoured swap of 789 orders for additional 788s. Problem with those swaps (at least in the short term), is that they won't make it into the fleet before the retirement of the 763s so BA has to deal with the BWI/NAS-GCM conundrum in the interim.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Since when would Boeing allow that? They have all but taken the 788 off the market.

What are you talking about? American did it earlier this year and BA will do it now. As long as customers are willing to pay for them, they'll produce them. No qualms for anyone. If anything it opens up some earlier very valuable 789 slots for other customers while filing the Aeroflot 788 slots with BA frames.

A
 
solarflyer22
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting lawair (Reply 16):
Cargo is a significant component of the BWI flight, which has been helped by the use of a wide bodied aircraft. BA carries more cargo at BWI than any other passenger airline except Southwest, despite only having a single daily flight.

The state revenue guarantee probably has the effect of disincentivizing a switch to a more efficient aircraft, since BA is probably locked in to getting more return from the route than other 767 routes.

Yeah, I would think the subsidy would push them to move scare resources like the 788 to other routes or better yet for opening new routes like they did with Austin.

I don't think this route is profitable without the subsidy but the real key I think is they need to integrate with SouthWest somehow. If you could transfer to them domestically on the same ticket you open up basically all of the US and Caribbean with 1 stop connectivity from LHR.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:43 am

Trying to think out-of-the-box, a leased 767-200 or 767-300 might work short-term.

As a matter of fact, given a subsidy, a right-sized aircraft for Baltimore loads, and a belly full of containers, a leased 200 might break even.

Ironically, United still has one 2010-build 200 in storage -- according to Planespotters. I do not know if the engines are compatible with the BA parts shed.
 
Andy33
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 35):
Ironically, United still has one 2010-build 200 in storage -- according to Planespotters. I do not know if the engines are compatible with the BA parts shed.

Well, they won't be compatible with BA's 763 engine spares, as BA 763s are RR powered, and UA's most certainly aren't.
Whether they are compatible with anything else BA flies, I'm not at all sure.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:49 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 34):
but the real key I think is they need to integrate with SouthWest somehow.

WN doesn't interline, so that's a no-go.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:39 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
AA doesn't have that much excess 757 capacity to go around, unless they plan on converting some of the not currently TATL birds.

The 75L fleet is grossly underutilized. AA could add another dozen or so trans-Atlantic 757 routes without needing to add more planes to the fleet.
a.
 
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GCT64
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:11 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 34):
I don't think this route is profitable without the subsidy but the real key I think is they need to integrate with SouthWest somehow. If you could transfer to them domestically on the same ticket you open up basically all of the US and Caribbean with 1 stop connectivity from LHR.

Why would the BA/AA JV want to feed traffic to WN at BWI when they can connect pax via JFK, PHL, CLT, ORD, DFW, MIA etc. and keep all the revenue in the JV?

LHR-BWI route is for O&D and connections through LHR, not traffic from the rest of the US.
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washingtonflyer
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:48 am

I don't see AA doing this route. Granted AA has 32 daily flights out of BWI, but all of them are to hub cities and using a 752 on this route eliminates a lot of the cargo capacity that you have with a wide body. RDU to London is one thing....

Plus, its not like Baltimore is a glamorous city right now. "Charm City" has been crime ridden for several months now with its murder tally already beating the figure for all of 2014 and it has had its highest murder body count (45 IIRC) since 1972.

I was planning a conference in Baltimore for early next year and I received a -lot- of objections from some of my constituent groups.
 
us330
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 40):
I was planning a conference in Baltimore for early next year and I received a -lot- of objections from some of my constituent groups.

Which is a shame because the touristy areas/CBD are fine. The increase in crime is occurring in neighborhoods that conference goers would avoid to begin with.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:36 pm

Mostly true, but there have been incidents where the more nefarious side of humanity has ventured towards the Inner Harbor and Fells Point to rob and assault visitors and tourists.
 
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TedToToe
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:49 pm

Given that BWI-LHR is subsidised, BA has been in no rush to replace the 763's with anything more efficient. Additionally, it is by no means one of the longer 763 routes that would benefit most from the fuel savings. Moreover, the subsidy agreement probably includes frequency and capacity criteria, so if the agreement is due for renewal, it makes sense to negotiate around the new aircraft type. FWIW, my money is on the 788.
 
smokeybandit
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RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:03 pm

I believe the subsidy only kicks in below a certain profit margin. And that route does pretty well I believe
 
Johnwaynebobbet
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:25 pm

RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:05 am

I believe this is the case as well. I have also been told that the subsidy has never actually had to be used.

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 44):

I believe the subsidy only kicks in below a certain profit margin. And that route does pretty well I believe

 
ChinaClipper40
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:23 am

RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:18 am

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 44):
I believe the subsidy only kicks in below a certain profit margin. And that route does pretty well I believe

Correct. It is not a direct subsidy or outright grant. It is a guarantee of profitability. The subsidy kicks in only if BA does not meet an 8% return on sales for the BWI-LHR nightly nonstop. If BA's profit from operations at BWI falls below 8% of the revenue generated by BWI operations, the payments kick in up to $5.5 million per year. So, in some years it could be zero, in some years it could be $5.5 million, and in some years it could fall somewhere in between. And, yes, the route does well. It very often fills completely with passengers (at ticket prices usually higher than those for IAD-LHR nonstops), and I often see a lot of freight containers being loaded. The Maryland Aviation Administration estimates that BA’s BWI-LHR service generates about $117 million in economic impact for the airport per year. The BA BWI-LHR flight is heavily used by the many medical research, bio-tech, and pharmaceutical personnel in the greater Baltimore area and northern DC suburbs. Furthermore, since it is an AA code-share, the many military and civilian U.S. government workers based in the greater Baltimore area and the Maryland suburbs of DC can book the flight without violating the "Fly America" Act. It's a popular flight for U.S. federal government military and civilian personnel - given the quality of the on-board food and service as compared to U.S. carriers, and given the fact that U.S. government employees must fly economy class.
 
fiddlerkrt
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:23 am

RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 46):
Correct. It is not a direct subsidy or outright grant. It is a guarantee of profitability. The subsidy kicks in only if BA does not meet an 8% return on sales for the BWI-LHR nightly nonstop. If BA's profit from operations at BWI falls below 8% of the revenue generated by BWI operations, the payments kick in up to $5.5 million per year. So, in some years it could be zero, in some years it could be $5.5 million, and in some years it could fall somewhere in between. And, yes, the route does well. It very often fills completely with passengers (at ticket prices usually higher than those for IAD-LHR nonstops), and I often see a lot of freight containers being loaded. The Maryland Aviation Administration estimates that BA’s BWI-LHR service generates about $117 million in economic impact for the airport per year. The BA BWI-LHR flight is heavily used by the many medical research, bio-tech, and pharmaceutical personnel in the greater Baltimore area and northern DC suburbs. Furthermore, since it is an AA code-share, the many military and civilian U.S. government workers based in the greater Baltimore area and the Maryland suburbs of DC can book the flight without violating the "Fly America" Act. It's a popular flight for U.S. federal government military and civilian personnel - given the quality of the on-board food and service as compared to U.S. carriers, and given the fact that U.S. government employees must fly economy class.

Interesting, I did not know this so thank-you very much for sharing. Do you know whether or not the EI flight was subsidized and why they eventually cut the route?

I seem to recall hearing that the KEF route was dropped because a military base closed in Iceland and that was a major source of traffic for FI.
 
czek6
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:20 pm

RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:06 am

The Aer Lingus flight received no subsidy and did okay. I believed it moved to Dulles to partner with United since it left oneworld about the same time. Icelandair was at BWI for 17 years or something like that. While there is some truth to the closing of the base, it is more widely believed that they left after news of the BA subsidy became public. They made a big stink about it at the time and tried to get a subsidy of their own to no avail.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

RE: British Airways At Baltimore - Future Aircraft

Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:18 am

My final guess is that for what it's worth BWI-LHR will shift to a 772 once the 767s are gone; there's simply too few 788s to go around in the short to medium term, and BWI can probably handle the upgauge anyways (certainly in the summer). If it doesn't work, it'll go back to a 788 as more of those arrive in the next few years.

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